Simple - lay some track under the bridge!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJrlEMSPJ8
boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
Simple - lay some track under the bridge!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJrlEMSPJ8
Explanation from the description, translated by Firefox:
"On 26.11.2019 from 9:00 a.m., a former double-decker car, which was used by Deutsche Bahn Regio, a subsidiary of Deutsche Bahn DB AG, was used in local transport and was most recently on the "siding" in Mukran/Rgen, as part of the security partnership between the DB and the Federal Police, transported by heavy transport to the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin. Previously, it was refurbished, repainted and driven on the railroad to Hangelar on a track of the Rhein-Sieg-Eisenbahn. That's where the ca. 46-ton wagon with the help of makeshift rails pulled onto a special semi-trailer and then moved to the light rail underpass on the Bundesborderschutzstrae. Since the passage height for heavy transport was too small, a makeshift track was first applied to the road surface by Deutsche Bahn AG below the underpass. The double-decker truck was then placed on the rails and pushed through under the underpass. In addition to the equipment of the contracted company, the equipment of the technical deployment hundred of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin also played a major role. Subsequently, the car was recharged to the heavy transport and transported to the property of the Federal Police. Finally,
he was pushed onto a track with platform, where he remains temporarily
usable for exercises since 15:11. The double-decker car expands the
training and further education of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin in the field of railway police and also enables the other services located in the location, such as the GSG 9 BPOL and the Federal Police Directorate Sankt Augustin, a realistic training of the employees. The officers of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin are regularly used to monitor railway facilities, railway stations and trains, often on the occasion of the arrival and departure monitoring of football fans or demonstration participants."
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
Simple - lay some track under the bridge!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJrlEMSPJ8
Explanation from the description, translated by Firefox:
"On 26.11.2019 from 9:00 a.m., a former double-decker car, which was used by >> Deutsche Bahn Regio, a subsidiary of Deutsche Bahn DB AG, was used in local >> transport and was most recently on the "siding" in Mukran/Rgen, as part of >> the security partnership between the DB and the Federal Police, transported >> by heavy transport to the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin.
Previously, it was refurbished, repainted and driven on the railroad to
Hangelar on a track of the Rhein-Sieg-Eisenbahn. That's where the ca.
46-ton wagon with the help of makeshift rails pulled onto a special
semi-trailer and then moved to the light rail underpass on the
Bundesborderschutzstrae. Since the passage height for heavy transport was >> too small, a makeshift track was first applied to the road surface by
Deutsche Bahn AG below the underpass. The double-decker truck was then
placed on the rails and pushed through under the underpass. In addition to >> the equipment of the contracted company, the equipment of the technical
deployment hundred of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin also
played a major role. Subsequently, the car was recharged to the heavy
transport and transported to the property of the Federal Police. Finally, >> he was pushed onto a track with platform, where he remains temporarily
usable for exercises since 15:11. The double-decker car expands the
training and further education of the Federal Police Department Sankt
Augustin in the field of railway police and also enables the other services >> located in the location, such as the GSG 9 BPOL and the Federal Police
Directorate Sankt Augustin, a realistic training of the employees. The
officers of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin are regularly used >> to monitor railway facilities, railway stations and trains, often on the
occasion of the arrival and departure monitoring of football fans or
demonstration participants."
A UK example of laying rails on the public highway to move stock occurred after the standard gauge but isolated Bideford Westward Ho! and Appledore Railway was closed in WW1 so some of its materials could be used
elsewhere. Using track recovered further up the line a link was made from the tramway section on Bideford Quay and a very sharp reversal up a side street and then across the road bridge and into the LSWR goods yard across the river.
Aways seemed a lot of work to me , even in those days road low loaders were around albeit towed by traction engines, or they could just have loaded
them onto a ship on Bideford Quay.
Some pics of the operation on these links
<https://ehive.com/collections/4566/objects/159630/bideford-says-goodbye-to-its-local-railway-1917>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bideford,_Westward_Ho!_and_Appledore_Railway#/media/File:BWH&AR_Locomotive_crossing_Bideford_Bridge_1917.jpg>
A UK example of laying rails on the public highway to move stock occurred >after the standard gauge but isolated Bideford Westward Ho! and Appledore >Railway was closed in WW1 so some of its materials could be used
elsewhere. Using track recovered further up the line a link was made from >the tramway section on Bideford Quay and a very sharp reversal up a side >street and then across the road bridge and into the LSWR goods yard across >the river.
Aways seemed a lot of work to me , even in those days road low loaders were >around albeit towed by traction engines, or they could just have loaded
them onto a ship on Bideford Quay.
Some pics of the operation on these links
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
Simple - lay some track under the bridge!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJrlEMSPJ8
Explanation from the description, translated by Firefox:
"On 26.11.2019 from 9:00 a.m., a former double-decker car, which was used by
Deutsche Bahn Regio, a subsidiary of Deutsche Bahn DB AG, was used in local >>> transport and was most recently on the "siding" in Mukran/Rgen, as part of
the security partnership between the DB and the Federal Police, transported >>> by heavy transport to the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin.
Previously, it was refurbished, repainted and driven on the railroad to
Hangelar on a track of the Rhein-Sieg-Eisenbahn. That's where the ca.
46-ton wagon with the help of makeshift rails pulled onto a special
semi-trailer and then moved to the light rail underpass on the
Bundesborderschutzstrae. Since the passage height for heavy transport was
-local-railway-1917>too small, a makeshift track was first applied to the road surface by
Deutsche Bahn AG below the underpass. The double-decker truck was then
placed on the rails and pushed through under the underpass. In addition to >>> the equipment of the contracted company, the equipment of the technical
deployment hundred of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin also
played a major role. Subsequently, the car was recharged to the heavy
transport and transported to the property of the Federal Police. Finally, >>> he was pushed onto a track with platform, where he remains temporarily
usable for exercises since 15:11. The double-decker car expands the
training and further education of the Federal Police Department Sankt
Augustin in the field of railway police and also enables the other services >>> located in the location, such as the GSG 9 BPOL and the Federal Police
Directorate Sankt Augustin, a realistic training of the employees. The
officers of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin are regularly used >>> to monitor railway facilities, railway stations and trains, often on the >>> occasion of the arrival and departure monitoring of football fans or
demonstration participants."
A UK example of laying rails on the public highway to move stock occurred
after the standard gauge but isolated Bideford Westward Ho! and Appledore
Railway was closed in WW1 so some of its materials could be used
elsewhere. Using track recovered further up the line a link was made from >> the tramway section on Bideford Quay and a very sharp reversal up a side
street and then across the road bridge and into the LSWR goods yard across >> the river.
Aways seemed a lot of work to me , even in those days road low loaders were >> around albeit towed by traction engines, or they could just have loaded
them onto a ship on Bideford Quay.
Some pics of the operation on these links
<https://ehive.com/collections/4566/objects/159630/bideford-says-goodbye-to-its
dia/File:BWH&AR_Locomotive_crossing_Bideford_Bridge_1917.jpg>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bideford,_Westward_Ho!_and_Appledore_Railway#/me
I remember once seeing some people an outdoor museum turning a loco using a >length of track and lot of big crow bars. The track was laid on the ground >and the loco was driven to one end. At some point the track length must
have been disconnected from the permanent way. The crowbars were used to >slew the free end of the track a few feet, then the loco was driven back
and the crowbarring repeated at the other end. I watched for a couple of >iterations before I got bored. The people doing the work presumably
finished the job by reconnecting the free piece of track to the museum >formation.
On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 14:08:22 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:<https://ehive.com/collections/4566/objects/159630/bideford-says-goodbye-to-its
boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
Simple - lay some track under the bridge!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJrlEMSPJ8
Explanation from the description, translated by Firefox:
"On 26.11.2019 from 9:00 a.m., a former double-decker car, which was used by
Deutsche Bahn Regio, a subsidiary of Deutsche Bahn DB AG, was used in local
transport and was most recently on the "siding" in Mukran/Rgen, as part of
the security partnership between the DB and the Federal Police, transported
by heavy transport to the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin.
Previously, it was refurbished, repainted and driven on the railroad to >>>> Hangelar on a track of the Rhein-Sieg-Eisenbahn. That's where the ca. >>>> 46-ton wagon with the help of makeshift rails pulled onto a special
semi-trailer and then moved to the light rail underpass on the
Bundesborderschutzstrae. Since the passage height for heavy transport was
too small, a makeshift track was first applied to the road surface by
Deutsche Bahn AG below the underpass. The double-decker truck was then >>>> placed on the rails and pushed through under the underpass. In addition to
the equipment of the contracted company, the equipment of the technical >>>> deployment hundred of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin also >>>> played a major role. Subsequently, the car was recharged to the heavy >>>> transport and transported to the property of the Federal Police. Finally, >>>> he was pushed onto a track with platform, where he remains temporarily >>>> usable for exercises since 15:11. The double-decker car expands the
training and further education of the Federal Police Department Sankt
Augustin in the field of railway police and also enables the other services
located in the location, such as the GSG 9 BPOL and the Federal Police >>>> Directorate Sankt Augustin, a realistic training of the employees. The >>>> officers of the Federal Police Department Sankt Augustin are regularly used
to monitor railway facilities, railway stations and trains, often on the >>>> occasion of the arrival and departure monitoring of football fans or
demonstration participants."
A UK example of laying rails on the public highway to move stock occurred >>> after the standard gauge but isolated Bideford Westward Ho! and Appledore >>> Railway was closed in WW1 so some of its materials could be used
elsewhere. Using track recovered further up the line a link was made from >>> the tramway section on Bideford Quay and a very sharp reversal up a side >>> street and then across the road bridge and into the LSWR goods yard across >>> the river.
Aways seemed a lot of work to me , even in those days road low loaders were >>> around albeit towed by traction engines, or they could just have loaded
them onto a ship on Bideford Quay.
Some pics of the operation on these links
-local-railway-1917>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bideford,_Westward_Ho!_and_Appledore_Railway#/me
dia/File:BWH&AR_Locomotive_crossing_Bideford_Bridge_1917.jpg>
I remember once seeing some people an outdoor museum turning a loco using a >> length of track and lot of big crow bars. The track was laid on the ground >> and the loco was driven to one end. At some point the track length must
have been disconnected from the permanent way. The crowbars were used to
slew the free end of the track a few feet, then the loco was driven back
and the crowbarring repeated at the other end. I watched for a couple of
iterations before I got bored. The people doing the work presumably
finished the job by reconnecting the free piece of track to the museum
formation.
Meanwhile over in Canada they don't even bother laying the rails - just
drive the loco down the road!
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39378/how-canadians-derailed-a-train-and-drove-it-
to-city-hall-for-power-after-a-brutal-ice-storm
Whats not explained anywhere is how they kept the loco going in a straight line and stopped the bogies turning. Perhaps they lined it up and locked them in place?
On 23/01/2026 16:12, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
Whats not explained anywhere is how they kept the loco going in a straight >> line and stopped the bogies turning. Perhaps they lined it up and locked them
in place?
In 2003 SNCF laid tracks down the Champs Elysses overnight and ran a
public service back and forth for /L'exposition Le Train Capitale/
On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 17:38:48 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
On 23/01/2026 16:12, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
Whats not explained anywhere is how they kept the loco going in a
straight
line and stopped the bogies turning. Perhaps they lined it up and
locked them
in place?
In 2003 SNCF laid tracks down the Champs Elysses overnight and ran a
public service back and forth for /L'exposition Le Train Capitale/
Been a long time since I've been there (wife hates Paris for
inexplicable reasons) but IIRC the Champs Elysses is on a slope. Must've made for an interesting train driving experience!
On 24/01/2026 09:45, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 17:38:48 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
On 23/01/2026 16:12, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
Whats not explained anywhere is how they kept the loco going in a
straight
line and stopped the bogies turning. Perhaps they lined it up and
locked them
in place?
In 2003 SNCF laid tracks down the Champs Elysses overnight and ran a
public service back and forth for /L'exposition Le Train Capitale/
Been a long time since I've been there (wife hates Paris for
inexplicable reasons) but IIRC the Champs Elysses is on a slope. Must've
made for an interesting train driving experience!
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the
bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde
to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and
they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the
bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde
to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and
they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the
If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed
to cope with them , simple 2CV.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track.It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the
bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde >>> to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and
they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the
If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set
everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed
to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now
it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track.It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the
bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde >>> to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and
they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the
If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set
everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed
to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now
it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde >>>> to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday andIf it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set
they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the >>>
everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state >> of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed >> to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now
it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
Driving a 2CV on a dirt road is a lot of fun, ideally on a sunny day with
the roof back.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track.It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the
bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde >>> to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and
they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the
If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set
everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed
to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now
it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
On 24/01/2026 14:33, Marland wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track.It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the
bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde >>> to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday andIf it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set
they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the >>
everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
It's an old joke in Romania that given the cost of fixing the roads, it
was cheaper to develop the Dacia Duster and just stop caring...
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
On 24/01/2026 14:33, Marland wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde >>>>> to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and >>>>> they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the >>>>If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set >>>> everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state >>> of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed >>> to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now >>> it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
It's an old joke in Romania that given the cost of fixing the roads, it
was cheaper to develop the Dacia Duster and just stop caring...
I thought main roads were already next to okay in 2010?
On 25/01/2026 11:51, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
On 24/01/2026 14:33, Marland wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track. >>> For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde
to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and >>>>> they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the >>>>If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set >>>> everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed >>> to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now >>> it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
It's an old joke in Romania that given the cost of fixing the roads, it
was cheaper to develop the Dacia Duster and just stop caring...
I thought main roads were already next to okay in 2010?
They're not nearly as bad as Romanians *think* they are, to be fair.
(They're notably far better than say, Bulgaria or Moldova - you notice pretty quickly the instance you cross the border and the suspension
first hits an end stop...)
Rural and mountain roads can still be pretty hairy though.
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like
bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures
can hit 50c quite easily,
I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead
of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt
melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road
surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like
bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures
can hit 50c quite easily,
Well, happens also in Germany/Poland. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ruts#/media/File:DK1_koleiny.jpg
I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead
of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface
Same here for heavily used bus stops but even concrete breaks up.
No frost conditions in Bangkok...
On 25/01/2026 11:51, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
On 24/01/2026 14:33, Marland wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track. >>>> For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state >>>> of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed >>>> to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now >>>> it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde >>>>>> to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and >>>>>> they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the >>>>>If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set >>>>> everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
It's an old joke in Romania that given the cost of fixing the roads, it
was cheaper to develop the Dacia Duster and just stop caring...
I thought main roads were already next to okay in 2010?
They're not nearly as bad as Romanians *think* they are, to be fair.
(They're notably far better than say, Bulgaria or Moldova - you notice pretty quickly the instance you cross the border and the suspension
first hits an end stop...)
Rural and mountain roads can still be pretty hairy though.
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like
bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures
can hit 50c quite easily, I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead
of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface and contributes to
the noise and terrible air quality in the city.
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 25/01/2026 11:51, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
On 24/01/2026 14:33, Marland wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track. >>>> For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a >>>>>> banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde
to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and >>>>>> they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the
If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set >>>>> everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed
to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now
it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
It's an old joke in Romania that given the cost of fixing the roads, it >>> was cheaper to develop the Dacia Duster and just stop caring...
I thought main roads were already next to okay in 2010?
They're not nearly as bad as Romanians *think* they are, to be fair.
(They're notably far better than say, Bulgaria or Moldova - you notice pretty quickly the instance you cross the border and the suspension
first hits an end stop...)
Rural and mountain roads can still be pretty hairy though.
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like
bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures can hit 50c quite easily, I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead
of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface and contributes to
the noise and terrible air quality in the city.
I can confidently say that the same problem occurs at bus stops here, where the summer temperature rarely rises above the mid-20s.
The M6 running up from the Kendal turnoff towards the Lune Gorge used to
have ruts where the HGVs rumbled along in the slow lane. Driving up there
in a Mini was. . . interesting.
On 25/01/2026 12:29, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt
melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road
surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like
bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures
can hit 50c quite easily,
Well, happens also in Germany/Poland.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ruts#/media/
File:DK1_koleiny.jpg
Yes, that's very much the kind of thing... In fact that's as bad as anything I've seen in Romania; that goes to my "[the roads are] not as
bad as Romanians *think* they are" comment - the popular assumption here
is always that everywhere else is perfect, and everything in Romania is uniquely terrible.
I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead
of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface
Same here for heavily used bus stops but even concrete breaks up.
No frost conditions in Bangkok...
Good point. A concrete surface may be more resilient in summer when
it's +50, but might not be so great in the winter when it's -20...
Am 25.01.2026 um 15:06 schrieb Clank:
On 25/01/2026 12:29, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt >>> melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road
surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like >>> bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures >>> can hit 50c quite easily,
Well, happens also in Germany/Poland.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ruts#/media/
File:DK1_koleiny.jpg
Yes, that's very much the kind of thing... In fact that's as bad as anything I've seen in Romania; that goes to my "[the roads are] not as
bad as Romanians *think* they are" comment - the popular assumption here is always that everywhere else is perfect, and everything in Romania is uniquely terrible.
I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead >>> of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface
Same here for heavily used bus stops but even concrete breaks up.
No frost conditions in Bangkok...
Good point. A concrete surface may be more resilient in summer when
it's +50, but might not be so great in the winter when it's -20...
For heavy goods vehicles, cobbles or pre-fab concrete slabs are quite robust, traditionally - mind the gaps
;-) remembering GDR
motorways
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> posted:
Am 25.01.2026 um 15:06 schrieb Clank:
On 25/01/2026 12:29, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt >>>>> melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern >>>>> surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road >>>>> surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like >>>>> bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the >>>>> same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures >>>>> can hit 50c quite easily,
Well, happens also in Germany/Poland.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ruts#/media/
File:DK1_koleiny.jpg
Yes, that's very much the kind of thing... In fact that's as bad as
anything I've seen in Romania; that goes to my "[the roads are] not as
bad as Romanians *think* they are" comment - the popular assumption here >>> is always that everywhere else is perfect, and everything in Romania is
uniquely terrible.
I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead >>>>> of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface
Same here for heavily used bus stops but even concrete breaks up.
No frost conditions in Bangkok...
Good point. A concrete surface may be more resilient in summer when
it's +50, but might not be so great in the winter when it's -20...
For heavy goods vehicles, cobbles or pre-fab concrete slabs are quite
robust, traditionally - mind the gaps
;-) remembering GDR
built earlier than GDR was founded
motorways
See
Strecke 61 DK18 Erlenholz (Olszyna) ? Bunzlau (Boles?awiec) on https://autobahngeschichte.de/die-letzten-fahrbahndecken-der-rab/#:~:text=Strecke%2018%20bei%20L%C3%BCbeck%20und,zahlreichen%20G%C3%A4rten%20zu%20finden%20ist.
I have met even worse in this now Polish region,
about 1993.
Am 26.01.2026 um 13:26 schrieb Ulf Kutzner:
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> posted:
Am 25.01.2026 um 15:06 schrieb Clank:
On 25/01/2026 12:29, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt >>>>> melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern >>>>> surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road >>>>> surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like >>>>> bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the >>>>> same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures >>>>> can hit 50c quite easily,
Well, happens also in Germany/Poland.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ruts#/media/
File:DK1_koleiny.jpg
Yes, that's very much the kind of thing... In fact that's as bad as
anything I've seen in Romania; that goes to my "[the roads are] not as >>> bad as Romanians *think* they are" comment - the popular assumption here >>> is always that everywhere else is perfect, and everything in Romania is >>> uniquely terrible.
I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead >>>>> of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface
Same here for heavily used bus stops but even concrete breaks up.
No frost conditions in Bangkok...
Good point. A concrete surface may be more resilient in summer when
it's +50, but might not be so great in the winter when it's -20...
For heavy goods vehicles, cobbles or pre-fab concrete slabs are quite
robust, traditionally - mind the gaps
;-) remembering GDR
built earlier than GDR was founded
motorways
See
Strecke 61 DK18 Erlenholz (Olszyna) ? Bunzlau (Boles?awiec) on https://autobahngeschichte.de/die-letzten-fahrbahndecken-der-rab/#:~:text=Strecke%2018%20bei%20L%C3%BCbeck%20und,zahlreichen%20G%C3%A4rten%20zu%20finden%20ist.
I have met even worse in this now Polish region,
about 1993.
My childhood memories are from vaious trips mid-1980's, A4, A9 to Wittenberg. The concrete in the "slow lane" often had drops of 5-10cm at
the edges from HGVs (luckily, Citroen 2CV can cope easily).
On 25/01/2026 11:51, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
On 24/01/2026 14:33, Marland wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track. >>> For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde
to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and >>>>> they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the >>>>If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set >>>> everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed >>> to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now >>> it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
It's an old joke in Romania that given the cost of fixing the roads, it
was cheaper to develop the Dacia Duster and just stop caring...
I thought main roads were already next to okay in 2010?
They're not nearly as bad as Romanians *think* they are, to be fair.
(They're notably far better than say, Bulgaria or Moldova - you notice pretty quickly the instance you cross the border and the suspension
first hits an end stop...)
Rural and mountain roads can still be pretty hairy though.
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road surface of cobbles or the like.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 25/01/2026 11:51, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
On 24/01/2026 14:33, Marland wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track. >>>>>> For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>>>>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a >>>>>>>> banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde
to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and >>>>>>>> they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the
If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set >>>>>>> everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed
to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now
it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
It's an old joke in Romania that given the cost of fixing the roads, it >>>>> was cheaper to develop the Dacia Duster and just stop caring...
I thought main roads were already next to okay in 2010?
They're not nearly as bad as Romanians *think* they are, to be fair.
(They're notably far better than say, Bulgaria or Moldova - you notice
pretty quickly the instance you cross the border and the suspension
first hits an end stop...)
Rural and mountain roads can still be pretty hairy though.
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt >>> melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road
surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like
bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures >>> can hit 50c quite easily, I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead
of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface and contributes to
the noise and terrible air quality in the city.
I can confidently say that the same problem occurs at bus stops here, where >> the summer temperature rarely rises above the mid-20s.
The M6 running up from the Kendal turnoff towards the Lune Gorge used to
have ruts where the HGVs rumbled along in the slow lane. Driving up there >> in a Mini was. . . interesting.
Found a paper in German language about asphalt (do not use too much
of it)/concrete:
https://lab.asphalta.eu/downloads/Dudenhoefer-Bushaltestellen.pdf
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 14:13:00 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:43:51 +0000And then the train would derail as a pothole appeared under the track.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> gabbled:
It's fairly flat for about half the distance to the Arc, that was the >>>> bit they used. They used a diesel shunter with two coaches and a
banksman for the return journey. IIRC it went from Place de la Concorde
to the crossroads by the Franklyn D Roosevelt metro station.
Yes, I've found some pictures now, looks rather impressive.
Track was laid Friday night, the service ran Saturday and Sunday and >>>> they lifted the track Sunday night. The exhibition ran the whole of the >>>If it was done in London they'd need at least a week either side to set >>> everything up then there'd be some last minute fuckup anyway.
For the first few decades of my life we looked down our noses at the state >> of French roads and the suspension measures French Car makers developed >> to cope with them , simple 2CV. , sophisticated Citroen DS onwards. Now >> it is our roads that are the laughing stock.
Driving a 2CV on a dirt road is a lot of fun, ideally on a sunny day with >the roof back.
I think there's still a market for vehicles with soft squidgy suspension. For some inexplicable reason manufacturers seem to think every driver in the UK wants to set a lap time on the nurbergring and make their suspensions accordingly rock hard (in comparison to past decades).
Am 25.01.2026 um 15:06 schrieb Clank:
On 25/01/2026 12:29, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
The main problem in cities is ridging/deformation caused by the asphalt >>>> melting in the summer heat - especially for roads that have a modern
surface laid over an older (I can authoritatively say Roman ;-)) road
surface of cobbles or the like. It's really noticeable at places like >>>> bus stops where heavy vehicles are frequently stopping in exactly the
same place.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that one. Summer air temperatures >>>> can hit 50c quite easily,
Well, happens also in Germany/Poland.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ruts#/media/
File:DK1_koleiny.jpg
Yes, that's very much the kind of thing... In fact that's as bad as
anything I've seen in Romania; that goes to my "[the roads are] not as
bad as Romanians *think* they are" comment - the popular assumption
here is always that everywhere else is perfect, and everything in
Romania is uniquely terrible.
I presume road surface temperatures much
higher; in Bangkok they solve this problem by pouring concrete instead >>>> of asphalt, but it's an absolutely horrible surface
Same here for heavily used bus stops but even concrete breaks up.
No frost conditions in Bangkok...
Good point. A concrete surface may be more resilient in summer when
it's +50, but might not be so great in the winter when it's -20...
For heavy goods vehicles, cobbles or pre-fab concrete slabs are quite robust, traditionally - mind the gaps
;-) remembering GDR motorways
pouring asphalt on top only helps for a few years.
boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
I think there's still a market for vehicles with soft squidgy suspension. For
some inexplicable reason manufacturers seem to think every driver in the UK >> wants to set a lap time on the nurbergring and make their suspensions
accordingly rock hard (in comparison to past decades).
That's pretty much Citroen's only selling point these days - they optimise >for ride comfort while the identikit other Stellantis brands optimise the >same platform for sportiness or handling. They had hydropneumatic
suspension (last seen on the C5 X7) and now fancy dampers to smooth out the >ride.
The 'sporty' suspension thing is I think a product of motoring journalists >who need to have something to say about the car and, being petrolheads, the >idea of being a way to get a box of sprogs from A to B in comfort without >caring about 'driving dynamics' is not their personal cup of tea. Some of >the better reviewers are aware of their own blind spots, but being a comfy >ride would not get you on the front page of Evo magazine (or whatever the >current thing is nowadays).
The 'sporty' suspension thing is I think a product of motoring journalists >> who need to have something to say about the car and, being petrolheads, the >> idea of being a way to get a box of sprogs from A to B in comfort without
caring about 'driving dynamics' is not their personal cup of tea. Some of >> the better reviewers are aware of their own blind spots, but being a comfy >> ride would not get you on the front page of Evo magazine (or whatever the
current thing is nowadays).
I imagine Evo is long dead along with Max Power. Its 90s and 00s readership will have grown up and moved on and Gen-Z will get all that online now.
The 'sporty' suspension thing is I think a product of motoring journalists >>> who need to have something to say about the car and, being petrolheads, the >>> idea of being a way to get a box of sprogs from A to B in comfort without >>> caring about 'driving dynamics' is not their personal cup of tea. Some of >>> the better reviewers are aware of their own blind spots, but being a comfy >>> ride would not get you on the front page of Evo magazine (or whatever the >>> current thing is nowadays).
I imagine Evo is long dead
along with Max Power. Its 90s and 00s readership
will have grown up and moved on and Gen-Z will get all that online now.
Found EVO on my readly. app. Latest edition 7th Jan 2026.
Could not find Max Power.
GH
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
The 'sporty' suspension thing is I think a product of motoring journalists >>> who need to have something to say about the car and, being petrolheads, the >>> idea of being a way to get a box of sprogs from A to B in comfort without >>> caring about 'driving dynamics' is not their personal cup of tea. Some of >>> the better reviewers are aware of their own blind spots, but being a comfy >>> ride would not get you on the front page of Evo magazine (or whatever the >>> current thing is nowadays).
I imagine Evo is long dead along with Max Power. Its 90s and 00s readership >> will have grown up and moved on and Gen-Z will get all that online now.
Found EVO on my readly. app. Latest edition 7th Jan 2026.
Could not find Max Power.
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