This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years
ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

GH

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?

Not quite ? Freightliner operates 775m intermodal container trains.

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/news/124322/775m-long-freight-trains-uk-rail/


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 21/01/2026 17:28, Marland wrote:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction >> and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the >> freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is
probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

A clue to the length of the car trains, when the loco is stopped at
Northam Junction awaiting a path through Mount Pleasant, the rear of the
train fouls the Chapel Road crossing.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction >> and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the >> freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is >> probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years >ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also >handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5 cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder
why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 17:31:20 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction >> and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the >> freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is >> probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?

Not quite ? Freightliner operates 775m intermodal container trains.

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/news/124322/775m-long-freight-trains-uk-rai
l/

Nice. However its all very well having a 775m long siding at the port, but
what about at their destination!


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Thu, 22 Jan 2026 15:49:38 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 17:31:20 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is >>> probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >>>

Not quite ? Freightliner operates 775m intermodal container trains.

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/news/124322/775m-long-freight-trains-uk-rai

l/

Nice. However its all very well having a 775m long siding at the port, but >what about at their destination!

I don't know in this case, but sometimes long freight trains get broken into two halves at the destination.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years >> ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also >> handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still >> be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock
entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer. Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5 cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder
why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Your calculation is pretty good , I cant find the length for a 5 section unit except for an OO scale model one which is 871 mm so scaling from that makes a 10 unit train 662 metres.

Each permanent joint saves about a metre or possibly a bit more compared to
the end ones which over a long train must add up.
Must be a weight saving by omitting 4 axles and brakes for them per set.
And may be the plates connecting the car decks remain in place on the
short inner joints,
not having to raise or lower 4 (or 8 if both decks are used such as on the
MINI flows ) will also be quite timesaver.

GH



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is >> probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >>

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years >ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also >handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still >be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer. Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5 cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder
why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is >>>> probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >>>>

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years >>> ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also >>> handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still >>> be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >>> entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5 >> cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder
why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

And no relevance at all to the WIA wagons that are used on the trains to Southampton.

GH




--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is
probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >>>>

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years
ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also
handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >>> entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5
cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder >> why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

And no relevance at all to the WIA wagons that are used on the trains to Southampton.

Do they also come to the Continent? Found pics of wagons in the UK
but marked STVA, as far as I can read and see:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-03.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-05.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTempleMeads-01.jpg

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is
probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >>>>>>

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years
ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also
handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >>>>> entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5
cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder >>>> why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

And no relevance at all to the WIA wagons that are used on the trains to
Southampton.

Do they also come to the Continent? Found pics of wagons in the UK
but marked STVA, as far as I can read and see:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-03.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-05.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTempleMeads-01.jpg

The WIA wagons look like this.
<https://wagons-library.weebly.com/wia.html>

They have worked on the continent and were originally built for Chunnel
Tunnel services that did not materialise. A lot have been under or not
used because of that. Fortunately some found a role on internal traffic in
the UK to Southampton Docks and a couple of other flows.

When cars were generally smaller both decks could be used , the hooded
cover raises for loading and unloading operations.

GH

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is
probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years
ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also
handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock
entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5
cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder
why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

And no relevance at all to the WIA wagons that are used on the trains to >> Southampton.

Do they also come to the Continent? Found pics of wagons in the UK
but marked STVA, as far as I can read and see:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-03.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-05.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTempleMeads-01.jpg

The WIA wagons look like this.
<https://wagons-library.weebly.com/wia.html>

They have worked on the continent and were originally built for Chunnel Tunnel services that did not materialise.

Other sources say they did but for short times. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stored-surplus-wia-wagons.220425/#post-5255716

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/01/2026 10:55, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is
probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >>>>>>

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years
ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also
handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >>>>> entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5
cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder >>>> why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

And no relevance at all to the WIA wagons that are used on the trains to
Southampton.

Do they also come to the Continent? Found pics of wagons in the UK
but marked STVA, as far as I can read and see:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-03.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-05.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTempleMeads-01.jpg

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

Those articulated ones at Southampton do look very fancy though.
The DB Cargo trains from Ford Craiova to Constanta go past the end of my
road, they use open non-bogeyed wagons each with a single articulation
in the middle:

<https://gueterwagenkatalog.dbcargo.com/catalogue/by-wagon-category/l-car-carrier-wagons/Laaeks-553-9120738>

Each wagon is 27m long buffer-to-buffer, so a typical rake would be a
similar length, 24 wagons = 650m plus an Electroputere Class 60 diesel-electric (17m) for a load of 288 Ford Pumas (12 per wagon).

https://www.trainsdepot.org/en/vehicle/23/class-60


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 08:34:02 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other >direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, >the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is

probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >> >>

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years >> >ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also >> >handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still >> >be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >> >entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5 >> cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder
why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freigh
t_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg >http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_H
ccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_f
rom1_02_08_2021.jpg >http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars23802911317
8_bk1004270362.jpg

Maybe an industry standard now for shipping cars?


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 11:27:41 +0200
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> gabbled:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

I suspect the cars are probably interleaved rather than stacked one of top
of another. And it probably only works for normal cars, not SUVs or pickups.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:

On 23/01/2026 10:55, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

Many car carrying wagons in the UK have had the facility to have two levels though not always for the full length.
Some vehicles had a section that lowered between the bogies . <https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/179870-efe-rail-newton-chambers-car-carriers/page/8/>
later designs like the Cartic had angled decks which gave lower areas on
both tiers

<https://www.ltsv.com/rd/profile_detail.php?id=37>

As noted elsewhere the size of cars has grown and accommodating two decks
of them is often not possible now , the MINI flow from Oxford to
Southampton is one of the exceptions .

As an aside a mate did observe one of them being unloaded in the docks when
the hoods had been raised (they need 400- 415 3phase AC shore power to do
so ) and knowing my interest in Railways mildly bent my ear ? If they can
run double deck trains for cars why cannot they operate passenger ones?.
I expect they could I replied , providing you and your fellow passengers
lie flat for the journey to Waterloo. ISTR the South Western Main line between Southampton and Waterloo could almost take
a true double decker *without too much clearance work , unfortunately one
of the things that would need to be cleared is the listed aqueduct for the Basingstoke Canal . I?m all for preserving the past but occasionally in
this country we let the past hinder the future. An under used Canal should
not have precedence over modernising a busy transport artery, and I say
that as one of those who helped restore parts of it in the mid to late
1970?s.

* As opposed to Bulleid?s interleaved design .

GH


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:

On 23/01/2026 10:55, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK loading gauge.

Many car carrying wagons in the UK have had the facility to have two levels though not always for the full length.
Some vehicles had a section that lowered between the bogies . <https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/179870-efe-rail-newton-chambers-car-carriers/page/8/>
later designs like the Cartic had angled decks which gave lower areas on
both tiers

<https://www.ltsv.com/rd/profile_detail.php?id=37>

As noted elsewhere the size of cars has grown and accommodating two decks
of them is often not possible now , the MINI flow from Oxford to
Southampton is one of the exceptions .

As an aside a mate did observe one of them being unloaded in the docks when the hoods had been raised (they need 400- 415 3phase AC shore power to do
so ) and knowing my interest in Railways mildly bent my ear ? If they can
run double deck trains for cars why cannot they operate passenger ones?.
I expect they could I replied , providing you and your fellow passengers
lie flat for the journey to Waterloo.

There used to be kind of, and on all HSL only trips
you might use double deck trains sized like those*
on the Continent.

*) Different loading gauges available.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Am 23.01.2026 um 09:34 schrieb Ulf Kutzner:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is >>>> probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine? >>>>

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years >>> ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also >>> handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still >>> be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock >>> entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5 >> cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder
why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

DB Cargo offer lots of technical details concerning the different variants: <https://gueterwagenkatalog.dbcargo.com/katalog/nach-gattung/l-autotransportwagen>

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 11:27:41 +0200
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> gabbled:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

I suspect the cars are probably interleaved rather than stacked one of top
of another. And it probably only works for normal cars, not SUVs or pickups.

There used to be regular double deckers, possibly back when cars were
smaller than they often are today.

<https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/motorail-column-lead.jpg>

Note the loading gauge mounted on some of the wagons!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/01/2026 09:15, Marland wrote:

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:

Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On 21 Jan 2026 17:28:15 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

This just popped up in my feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FBitO-1Ffw

Going by the 25mph sign which I'll assume is the same in the other direction
and seems a reasonable speed given how fast it appears to be going past, the
freight train from 6:18 to 7:18 works out at 0.4 miles/640m long. This is
probably close to the longest train allowed on the NR network I imagine?

Southampton container terminal had tracks had extended a couple of years
ago that allows
775 container trains into the terminal. I believe London Gateway can also
handle that length.
The new Southampton headshunt can be seen here
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/Lz4nRBEFaDTmEbkz7?g_st=ic>

I have a feeling some of the car trains carrying export vehicles may still
be longer.
Certainly feels like it when you have to wait at the crossing by the Dock
entrance.
<https://youtu.be/E4PIO13nA6Q?si=ivqoJbZa9H5mXg3S>

Assuming 10mph and 4 mins that would make it 660m so a bit longer.
Interesting (to me) however is that there appears to be discrete units of 5
cars on articulated bogies all joined together to make the train. Wonder >>>>> why they chose that approach rather than just standard bogie wagons?

Hm. What can be seen for BMW works:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_German_freight_car_Hccrrs1_22_09_2010.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/A_freight_car_Hccrrs_of_DB_at_central_railway_station_Plovdiv_in_composition_of_Optima_train_from1_02_08_2021.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/H/2-axle/Hccrrs/dars238029113178_bk1004270362.jpg

And no relevance at all to the WIA wagons that are used on the trains to >>> Southampton.

Do they also come to the Continent? Found pics of wagons in the UK
but marked STVA, as far as I can read and see:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-03.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTM-05.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/freight/automobile/carwagons-BristolTempleMeads-01.jpg

The WIA wagons look like this.
<https://wagons-library.weebly.com/wia.html>

They have worked on the continent and were originally built for Chunnel Tunnel services that did not materialise. A lot have been under or not
used because of that. Fortunately some found a role on internal traffic in the UK to Southampton Docks and a couple of other flows.

When cars were generally smaller both decks could be used , the hooded
cover raises for loading and unloading operations.

For some years there were two badly graffitied rakes stored at
Micheldever sidings, they finally departed about a year ago I believe.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/01/2026 10:29, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 11:27:41 +0200
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> gabbled:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

I suspect the cars are probably interleaved rather than stacked one of top
of another. And it probably only works for normal cars, not SUVs or
pickups.

The original loadings for smaller cars was two complete decks, larger
cars only use the lower deck. Unlike road transporters, interleaving is
not really practical for the railways.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 11:27:41 +0200
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> gabbled:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK >loading gauge.

I suspect the cars are probably interleaved rather than stacked one of top
of another. And it probably only works for normal cars, not SUVs or pickups.

More space allowed by Continental loading gauge: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/L/automobile/db258042542088p_bk0704300033.jpg

But I recall a newer pic with the upper deck lowered
next to the lower deck and vehicles found only on the
upper deck.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/01/2026 17:12, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

boltar@caprica.universe posted:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 11:27:41 +0200
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> gabbled:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

I suspect the cars are probably interleaved rather than stacked one of top >> of another. And it probably only works for normal cars, not SUVs or pickups.

More space allowed by Continental loading gauge: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/freight/L/automobile/db258042542088p_bk0704300033.jpg

But I recall a newer pic with the upper deck lowered
next to the lower deck and vehicles found only on the
upper deck.

Yes, for the trains out of Ford Craiova, Pumas will go on both decks,
but it seems that the Transit Couriers only go on the upper deck and
they'll leave the lower deck empty if necessary.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 13:47:04 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled: ><boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 11:27:41 +0200
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> gabbled:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

I suspect the cars are probably interleaved rather than stacked one of top >> of another. And it probably only works for normal cars, not SUVs or pickups.

There used to be regular double deckers, possibly back when cars were
smaller than they often are today.

<https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slid
e/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/motorail-column-lead.jpg>

Note the loading gauge mounted on some of the wagons!

I doubt you could fit *any* modern car on the lower deck of that, not just because of height but width too.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/01/2026 14:56, Graeme Wall wrote:

For some years there were two badly graffitied rakes stored at
Micheldever sidings, they finally departed about a year ago I believe.

There were three: 023-2, 051-3 & 052-1, which were broken up in November
2022.

Cheers,
--
Rob
"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational
in order to prove that you care, or, indeed, why it should be necessary
to prove it at all." - Avon, Blake's 7


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/01/2026 16:11, Robert wrote:

On 23/01/2026 14:56, Graeme Wall wrote:

For some years there were two badly graffitied rakes stored at
Micheldever sidings, they finally departed about a year ago I believe.

There were three: 023-2, 051-3 & 052-1, which were broken up in November 2022.

That long ago, time flies when you are having fun!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 13:47:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 11:27:41 +0200
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> gabbled:

Slightly surprised that you can fit double-deck car wagons in the UK
loading gauge.

I suspect the cars are probably interleaved rather than stacked one of top >> of another. And it probably only works for normal cars, not SUVs or pickups.

There used to be regular double deckers, possibly back when cars were
smaller than they often are today.

<https://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/motorail-column-lead.jpg>

Yes, I can remember long trains like this passing through Harringay
West containing Fords.

Note the loading gauge mounted on some of the wagons!

Sam

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)