• Re: BBC News: Anglo-Scottish sleeper trains set to call at city

    From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, January 21, 2026 15:00:56
    On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at 14:15:14 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings (perhaps with >>>>some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots.

    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as a >>>depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as a depot. You should have politely thanked me, and
    moved on. But of course not!

    If you really want more detail, and aren't just here for yet another argument, then find it yourself. There's plenty
    there for the finding...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, January 21, 2026 15:25:35
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at 14:15:14 on >>Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings (perhaps with >>>>>some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots.

    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as a >>>>depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as
    a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's successor
    EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified, coould have just
    been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ColinR@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, January 21, 2026 15:44:40
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at 14:15:14 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings (perhaps with >>>>>> some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or
    unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots.

    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as a >>>>> depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as
    a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's successor
    EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified, coould have just been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been answered.

    --
    Colin


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, January 21, 2026 18:38:32
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56
    on Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at 14:15:14 on >>>> Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings (perhaps with >>>>>>> some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots.

    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as a >>>>>> depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby
    as a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified,
    coould have just been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, January 21, 2026 21:13:47
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56
    on Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at 14:15:14 on >>>>> Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings (perhaps with >>>>>>>> some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots.

    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as a >>>>>>> depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby
    as a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified,
    coould have just been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?

    It was certainly an HST depot in MML days, as you could find to for
    yourself in seconds if you actually wanted to find the answer to your
    contrived trick question.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 09:05:50
    In message <0tn1nk1ha3iai7bja1pcpp9sca9c3ooe02@4ax.com>, at 14:17:41 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    A stray '%' in the url seems to be an easy way to get a 400.

    But a retyped url **doesn't have** any %'s in it, that's just an >>>>unhelpful way many browsers display it later.

    So you had some other typo. People who simply clicked on the link had no problems.

    I would love to see proof they tried to access the site at the *same
    time* as I did. At which point it was broken. But fixed later.

    That article dates from 24 August 2023. I doubt that anyone has touched it in years.

    We know where the fault was, and it wasn't the Web site.

    The fault was your wonky url.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 09:08:38
    In message <fkbcR.12129$eEW.9668@fx16.ams1>, at 21:13:47 on Wed, 21 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56
    on Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at 14:15:14 on >>>>>> Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings (perhaps with >>>>>>>>> some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots.

    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used Derby as a >>>>>>>> depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby
    as a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified,
    coould have just been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?

    It was certainly an HST depot in MML days, as you could find to for
    yourself in seconds if you actually wanted to find the answer to your >contrived trick question.

    It's fascinating the way you claim I could find out in seconds, and yet
    you won't post a cite.

    But thanks for saying it was "a depot", not even a/the main depot. All
    we need now is for you define what you mean by "a depot" - stabling plus cleaning and refuelling perhaps??
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bevan Price@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 11:07:38
    On 22/01/2026 09:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <fkbcR.12129$eEW.9668@fx16.ams1>, at 21:13:47 on Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56 >>>>> on˙ Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at
    14:15:14 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>
    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings
    (perhaps with
    some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots.

    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used >>>>>>>>> Derby as a
    depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby >>>>>> as˙ a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor˙ EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified,
    coould have just˙ been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been
    answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?

    It was certainly an HST depot in MML days, as you could find to for
    yourself in seconds if you actually wanted to find the answer to your
    contrived trick question.

    It's fascinating the way you claim I could find out in seconds, and yet
    you won't post a cite.

    But thanks for saying it was "a depot", not even a/the main depot. All
    we need now is for you define what you mean by "a depot" - stabling plus cleaning and refuelling perhaps??

    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 11:14:26
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <0tn1nk1ha3iai7bja1pcpp9sca9c3ooe02@4ax.com>, at 14:17:41 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    A stray '%' in the url seems to be an easy way to get a 400.

    But a retyped url **doesn't have** any %'s in it, that's just an
    unhelpful way many browsers display it later.

    So you had some other typo. People who simply clicked on the link had no problems.

    I would love to see proof they tried to access the site at the *same
    time* as I did. At which point it was broken. But fixed later.

    That article dates from 24 August 2023. I doubt that anyone has touched it in years.

    We know where the fault was, and it wasn't the Web site.

    The fault was your wonky url.

    No, the fault was the wonky url *you* typed in to your other machine. The
    url I supplied worked then, and continued to work thereafter. How could
    you have claim to have ?fixed? something that wasn?t broken? Obviously, it
    was mis-transcribed copy that was broken, and that you subsequently
    corrected.

    I must say, like the current POTUS, your erratic behaviour gets ever more bizarre. His rambling speech yesterday really reminded me of you (lots of factual errors, getting words mixed up, blame everyone else for everything, irrelevant personal anecdotes, too long, etc).


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 11:27:57
    Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 22/01/2026 09:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <fkbcR.12129$eEW.9668@fx16.ams1>, at 21:13:47 on Wed, 21 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan >>>> 2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56 >>>>>> on˙ Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at
    14:15:14 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>
    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings >>>>>>>>>>> (perhaps with
    some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots. >>>>>>>>>>
    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used >>>>>>>>>> Derby as a
    depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby >>>>>>> as˙ a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor˙ EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified, >>>>>> coould have just˙ been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been
    answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?

    It was certainly an HST depot in MML days, as you could find to for
    yourself in seconds if you actually wanted to find the answer to your
    contrived trick question.

    It's fascinating the way you claim I could find out in seconds, and yet
    you won't post a cite.

    But thanks for saying it was "a depot", not even a/the main depot. All
    we need now is for you define what you mean by "a depot" - stabling plus
    cleaning and refuelling perhaps??

    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    We were talking about where the HSTs were diagrammed to overnight. My understanding is that one went to Cricklewood, two or three to Etches Park,
    and the remainder to Neville Hill.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 13:24:40
    In message <10kt0do$2tqqe$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:38 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
    On 22/01/2026 09:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <fkbcR.12129$eEW.9668@fx16.ams1>, at 21:13:47 on Wed, 21
    Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan >>>> 2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56 >>>>>> on? Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry >>>>>>><roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at >>>>>>>>14:15:14 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>
    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings >>>>>>>>>>>(perhaps with
    some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots. >>>>>>>>>>
    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used >>>>>>>>>>Derby as a
    depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates.

    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby >>>>>>> as? a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor? EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified, >>>>>> coould have just? been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been >>>>>answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?

    It was certainly an HST depot in MML days, as you could find to for
    yourself in seconds if you actually wanted to find the answer to your
    contrived trick question.
    It's fascinating the way you claim I could find out in seconds, and
    yet you won't post a cite.
    But thanks for saying it was "a depot", not even a/the main depot.
    All we need now is for you define what you mean by "a depot" -
    stabling plus cleaning and refuelling perhaps??

    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 13:38:22
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kt0do$2tqqe$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:38 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
    On 22/01/2026 09:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <fkbcR.12129$eEW.9668@fx16.ams1>, at 21:13:47 on Wed, 21
    Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan >>>>> 2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56 >>>>>>> on˙ Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry
    <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at >>>>>>>>> 14:15:14 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>>
    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings >>>>>>>>>>>> (perhaps with
    some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used >>>>>>>>>>> Derby as a
    depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates. >>>>>>>>
    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby >>>>>>>> as˙ a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor˙ EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified, >>>>>>> coould have just˙ been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been >>>>>> answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?

    It was certainly an HST depot in MML days, as you could find to for
    yourself in seconds if you actually wanted to find the answer to your
    contrived trick question.
    It's fascinating the way you claim I could find out in seconds, and
    yet you won't post a cite.
    But thanks for saying it was "a depot", not even a/the main depot.
    All we need now is for you define what you mean by "a depot" -
    stabling plus cleaning and refuelling perhaps??

    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 13:50:17
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kt0do$2tqqe$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:38 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
    On 22/01/2026 09:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <fkbcR.12129$eEW.9668@fx16.ams1>, at 21:13:47 on Wed, 21
    Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <10kqs99$27n11$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:40 on Wed, 21 Jan >>>>> 2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 21/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <o2q1nkpsvulcgacjt84vo76i9h1qs17nqs@4ax.com>, at 15:00:56 >>>>>>> on˙ Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:30:18 +0000, Roland Perry
    <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <8rn1nkh32059s6r7gl8ro017o6n8ggf7g7@4ax.com>, at >>>>>>>>> 14:15:14 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>>
    There's a difference between simply stabling in sidings >>>>>>>>>>>> (perhaps with
    some routine cleaning and watering) and performing scheduled (or >>>>>>>>>>>> unscheduled) maintenance, which is what happens in depots. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Indeed, but please provide some evidence that MML HSTs used >>>>>>>>>>> Derby as a
    depot.

    I did.

    You didn't. As I said earlier, it failed to include the dates. >>>>>>>>
    As requested, I provided specific evidence that MML HSTs used Derby >>>>>>>> as˙ a depot.

    No you didn't. You provided an undated reference that MML's
    successor˙ EMR used it for maintenance (light/heavy not specified, >>>>>>> coould have just˙ been cleaning and topping up fuel&water).

    Next contestant please !!

    Quibble, quibble, quibble. All your questions / comments have been >>>>>> answered.

    My bad, I couldn't see the dates that it was an MML depot. Can you
    please quote whatever it was I missed?

    It was certainly an HST depot in MML days, as you could find to for
    yourself in seconds if you actually wanted to find the answer to your
    contrived trick question.
    It's fascinating the way you claim I could find out in seconds, and
    yet you won't post a cite.
    But thanks for saying it was "a depot", not even a/the main depot.
    All we need now is for you define what you mean by "a depot" -
    stabling plus cleaning and refuelling perhaps??

    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    As a reminder, this is what you actually said:

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later
    became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't talking about
    a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph
    would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall (sic), rather
    than back to Derby.?

    Your observations were, of course, wrong.

    In fact, two or three sets per night went to Etches Park, one to
    Cricklewood and the rest to Neville Hill. This is, of course, on top of any sets undergoing longer examinations or overhauls in either Etches Park or Neville Hill.

    This is a typical M-F set of diagrams:

    NL081
    5D07 0541 Cricklewood Depot ? London St Pancras 0603 arrival
    1D07 0700 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 0902 arrival
    1B28 0928 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1116 arrival
    5B82 1142 London St Pancras ? Cricklewood Depot 1214 arrival
    5D62 1716 Cricklewood Depot ? London St Pancras 1750 arrival
    1D62 1815 London St Pancras ? Leeds 2219 arrival
    5652 2226 Leeds ? Neville Hill Depot 2236 arrival

    NL082
    5C11 0412 Neville Hill Depot ? Sheffield 0504 arrival
    1C11 0529 Sheffield ? London St Pancras 0807 arrival
    5C11 0833 London St Pancras ? Cricklewood Depot 0903 arrival
    5F63 1734 Cricklewood Depot ? London St Pancras 1758 arrival
    1F63 1825 London St Pancras ? Sheffield 2056 arrival
    5F63 2112 Sheffield ? Neville Hill Depot 2246

    NL083
    5C15 0458 Neville Hill Depot ? Leeds 0508 arrival
    1C15 0525 Leeds ? London St Pancras 0855 arrival
    1D17 0915 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1059 arrival
    1B38 1128 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1313 arrival
    1D42 1415 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1559 arrival
    1B63 1628 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1817 arrival
    1M66 1900 London St Pancras ? Corby 2014 arrival
    1P84 2043 Corby ? London St Pancras 2229 arrival
    5P84 2255 London St Pancras ? Cricklewood Depot 2318 arrival

    NL084
    5B09 0431 Derby Etches Park ? Nottingham 0514 arrival
    1B09 0531 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 0855 arrival
    1D12 0815 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 0959 arrival
    1B33 1028 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1213 arrival
    1D37 1315 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1459 arrival
    1B58 1528 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1718 arrival
    1D90 1745 London St Pancras ? Derby 2035 arrival
    5D90 2051 Derby ? Neville Hill 2256 arrival

    NL085
    5B16 0601 Derby Etches Park ? Nottingham 0647 arrival
    1B16 0710 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 0906 arrival
    1D22 1015 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1159 arrival
    1B43 1228 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1413 arrival
    1D47 1515 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1659 arrival
    1B69 1728 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1919 arrival
    1F70 1955 London St Pancras ? Leeds 2305 arrival
    5F70 2115 Leeds ? Neville Hill Depot 2325 arrival

    NL086
    5C93 0416 Neville Hill Depot ? Sheffield 0519 arrival
    1C93 0557 Sheffield ? London St Pancras 0839
    5C93 0851 London St Pancras ? Cricklewood Depot 0917 arrival
    5D69 1826 Cricklewood Depot ? London St Pancras 1849 arrival
    1D69 1930 London St Pancras ? Leeds 2341 arrival
    5D69 0027 Leeds ? Neville Hill depot 0037 arrival

    NL087
    5B23 0600 Neville Hill Depot ? Leeds 0613 arrival
    1B23 0634 Leeds ? London St Pancras 1016 arrival
    1D27 1115 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1259 arrival
    1B48 1328 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1513 arrival
    1D52 1615 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1759
    1B73 1828 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 2011 arrival
    1F83 2225 London St Pancras ? Sheffield 0113 arrival
    5F83 0202 Sheffield ? Derby Etches Park 0302 arrival

    NL08
    5C22 0510 Neville Hill Depot ? Sheffield 0715 arrival
    1C22 0741 Sheffield - London St Pancras 1005 arrival
    1D32 1215 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1359 arrival
    1B53 1428 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 1613 arrival
    1D57 1715 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 1910 arrival
    1B78 1928 Nottingham ? London St Pancras 2111 arrival
    1D81 2200 London St Pancras ? Nottingham 0012 arrival
    5D81 0040 Nottingham ? Derby Etches Park 0122 arrival

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sam Wilson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 15:38:04
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <0tn1nk1ha3iai7bja1pcpp9sca9c3ooe02@4ax.com>, at 14:17:41 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    A stray '%' in the url seems to be an easy way to get a 400.

    But a retyped url **doesn't have** any %'s in it, that's just an
    unhelpful way many browsers display it later.

    So you had some other typo. People who simply clicked on the link had no problems.

    I would love to see proof they tried to access the site at the *same
    time* as I did. At which point it was broken. But fixed later.

    That article dates from 24 August 2023. I doubt that anyone has touched it in years.

    We know where the fault was, and it wasn't the Web site.

    The fault was your wonky url.

    No, the fault was the wonky url *you* typed in to your other machine. The
    url I supplied worked then, and continued to work thereafter. How could
    you have claim to have ?fixed? something that wasn?t broken? Obviously, it was mis-transcribed copy that was broken, and that you subsequently corrected.

    I must say, like the current POTUS, your erratic behaviour gets ever more bizarre. His rambling speech yesterday really reminded me of you (lots of factual errors, getting words mixed up, blame everyone else for everything, irrelevant personal anecdotes, too long, etc).

    That sir[1], is an insult too far!

    [1] Or madam if Roland has his way.

    Sam

    --
    The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
    Spit the dummy to reply

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nobody@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 08:20:33
    On Thu, 22 Jan 2026 09:05:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
    wrote:

    In message <0tn1nk1ha3iai7bja1pcpp9sca9c3ooe02@4ax.com>, at 14:17:41 on
    Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    A stray '%' in the url seems to be an easy way to get a 400.

    But a retyped url **doesn't have** any %'s in it, that's just an >>>>>unhelpful way many browsers display it later.

    So you had some other typo. People who simply clicked on the link had
    no problems.

    I would love to see proof they tried to access the site at the *same >>>time* as I did. At which point it was broken. But fixed later.

    That article dates from 24 August 2023. I doubt that anyone has
    touched it in years.

    We know where the fault was, and it wasn't the Web site.

    The fault was your wonky url.

    How many times does it have to be stated? The URL provided by
    Recliner was NOT (and still isn't) wonky.

    You seem to live in a state of sullen discontent with pouted lips and
    stamping of feet.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 18:19:45
    In message <1RncR.3840$qM7b.3547@fx07.ams1>, at 11:27:57 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    We were talking about where the HSTs were diagrammed to overnight.

    I asked: "Apart from those [HSTs] overnighting at St Pancras, or the
    sidings near the North Circular, which other *depots* were they based at
    other than Leeds?

    You replied: "Obviously, the main MML/EMT/EMR depot.

    And failed to give its location (I suspect you meant Derby).

    But as a concept that doesn't exist. And you've been darting and diving
    ever since I pointed out that MML never shared a depot with Central
    Trains (the precursor of EMT/EMR).

    My understanding is that one went to Cricklewood, two or three to
    Etches Park, and the remainder to Neville Hill.

    That sounds very plausible, and with MML having approximately 15 sets,
    the majority would have been at Neville Hill.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 18:25:47
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 18:26:54
    In message <24j4nk1vqlfbml62kqi6tl200jmdqs688i@4ax.com>, at 08:20:33 on
    Thu, 22 Jan 2026, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:

    How many times does it have to be stated? The URL provided by
    Recliner was NOT (and still isn't) wonky.

    The URL was broken when I first went to the page, I have not denied it's
    *now* working. Something got fixed.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 21:36:09
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"

    I?m not disagreeing with that. But it?s not what you said.

    Let me remind you, yet again, that you said that all the sets overnighted
    at either Neville Hill or Cricklewood. That was simply wrong. They
    overnighted in all three depots.

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later
    became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't talking about
    a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph
    would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall, rather than back
    to Derby.?

    and

    ?Given that HSTs were sent ECS from Nottingham every evening to Neville
    Hill (Leeds), it makes no sense for there to have been an alternative
    facility so much closer, in Derby, that they might have used instead.?

    So you were wrong. Who?d have thunk it?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 21:36:11
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <24j4nk1vqlfbml62kqi6tl200jmdqs688i@4ax.com>, at 08:20:33 on
    Thu, 22 Jan 2026, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:

    How many times does it have to be stated? The URL provided by
    Recliner was NOT (and still isn't) wonky.

    The URL was broken when I first went to the page, I have not denied it's *now* working. Something got fixed.

    Yes, your typo.

    Let me remind you:

    ?It did, actually, there's a missing word. Should be 'fit-for-future'?

    So you mistakenly changed the url to what you thought it should have been, rather than using what I provided.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 23:09:22
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1RncR.3840$qM7b.3547@fx07.ams1>, at 11:27:57 on Thu, 22 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:


    My understanding is that one went to Cricklewood, two or three to
    Etches Park, and the remainder to Neville Hill.

    That sounds very plausible, and with MML having approximately 15 sets,
    the majority would have been at Neville Hill.

    Did it ever have that many HSTs? I thought it originally had nine, and
    then got three more (apart from the Rio sets).


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Friday, January 23, 2026 11:50:29
    In message <fLwcR.25797$BJ84.13616@fx17.ams1>, at 21:36:11 on Thu, 22
    Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <24j4nk1vqlfbml62kqi6tl200jmdqs688i@4ax.com>, at 08:20:33 on
    Thu, 22 Jan 2026, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:

    How many times does it have to be stated? The URL provided by
    Recliner was NOT (and still isn't) wonky.

    The URL was broken when I first went to the page, I have not denied it's
    *now* working. Something got fixed.

    Yes, your typo.

    Let me remind you:

    ?It did, actually, there's a missing word. Should be 'fit-for-future'?

    So you mistakenly changed the url to what you thought it should have been, >rather than using what I provided.

    Another incorrect correction. I changed it to what worked for me, from
    your original, which didn't.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, January 24, 2026 08:10:14
    In message <C6ycR.6809$mUza.3408@fx09.ams1>, at 23:09:22 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1RncR.3840$qM7b.3547@fx07.ams1>, at 11:27:57 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:


    My understanding is that one went to Cricklewood, two or three to
    Etches Park, and the remainder to Neville Hill.

    That sounds very plausible, and with MML having approximately 15 sets,
    the majority would have been at Neville Hill.

    Did it ever have that many HSTs? I thought it originally had nine, and
    then got three more (apart from the Rio sets).

    I'm working backwards from sources which say they had 31 power cars. And
    of course, very few such sources ever put precise dates on their stats.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, January 31, 2026 17:37:56
    In message <dLwcR.25796$BJ84.3478@fx17.ams1>, at 21:36:09 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill
    (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"

    I?m not disagreeing with that. But it?s not what you said.

    Let me remind you, yet again, that you said that all the sets overnighted
    at either Neville Hill or Cricklewood. That was simply wrong. They >overnighted in all three depots.

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later >became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't talking about
    a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph
    would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall, rather than back >to Derby.?

    and

    ?Given that HSTs were sent ECS from Nottingham every evening to Neville
    Hill (Leeds), it makes no sense for there to have been an alternative >facility so much closer, in Derby, that they might have used instead.?

    So you were wrong. Who?d have thunk it?

    Despite requests, you've failed to put a date to any of your
    information. So it's quite possible that *at the time I was
    describing* [towards the end of MML era] they didn't overnight
    at Derby. And then later, EMT decided to extend their existing
    facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, January 31, 2026 18:45:51
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <dLwcR.25796$BJ84.3478@fx17.ams1>, at 21:36:09 on Thu, 22 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill >>> (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"

    I?m not disagreeing with that. But it?s not what you said.

    Let me remind you, yet again, that you said that all the sets overnighted
    at either Neville Hill or Cricklewood. That was simply wrong. They
    overnighted in all three depots.

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later
    became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't talking about >> a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph
    would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall, rather than back >> to Derby.?

    and

    ?Given that HSTs were sent ECS from Nottingham every evening to Neville
    Hill (Leeds), it makes no sense for there to have been an alternative
    facility so much closer, in Derby, that they might have used instead.?

    So you were wrong. Who?d have thunk it?

    Despite requests, you've failed to put a date to any of your
    information. So it's quite possible that *at the time I was
    describing* [towards the end of MML era] they didn't overnight
    at Derby. And then later, EMT decided to extend their existing
    facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet.

    When do you think the MML first got HSTs?


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, January 31, 2026 19:04:48
    In message <z5sfR.13511$_pb.10480@fx11.ams1>, at 18:45:51 on Sat, 31 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <dLwcR.25796$BJ84.3478@fx17.ams1>, at 21:36:09 on Thu, 22 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/

    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill >>>> (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"

    I?m not disagreeing with that. But it?s not what you said.

    Let me remind you, yet again, that you said that all the sets overnighted >>> at either Neville Hill or Cricklewood. That was simply wrong. They
    overnighted in all three depots.

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later >>> became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't talking about >>> a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph
    would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall, rather than back >>> to Derby.?

    and

    ?Given that HSTs were sent ECS from Nottingham every evening to Neville
    Hill (Leeds), it makes no sense for there to have been an alternative
    facility so much closer, in Derby, that they might have used instead.?

    So you were wrong. Who?d have thunk it?

    Despite requests, you've failed to put a date to any of your
    information. So it's quite possible that *at the time I was
    describing* [towards the end of MML era] they didn't overnight
    at Derby. And then later, EMT decided to extend their existing
    facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet.

    When do you think the MML first got HSTs?

    Not sure I understand why that matters. But April 1996 I would have
    thought, inherited from InterCity.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Alan Lee@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, January 31, 2026 20:42:28
    On 31/01/2026 19:04, Roland Perry wrote:

    When do you think the MML first got HSTs?

    Not sure I understand why that matters. But April 1996 I would have
    thought, inherited from InterCity.

    Try 1982. Some of the semi fasts still used the Peaks for haulage
    then,but they were being withdrawn rapidly, until in 85 or early 86,
    when there were only two loco hauled trains each day, which was when all services went over to HSTs.
    IIRC, it was one diagram, up and down, that used loco haulage. It was 83
    when the bulk of services were run by HSTs, only early and (very) late (possibly newspapers?), and perhaps an early evening departure from St.
    P continued with loco hauled stock.
    There were still occasional 'specials' or extras that used Loco Hauled Services for a few years after that, but no scheduled LHS for regular passenger work after 86 - all services were ran by HSTs.
    There was a short period when a Fragonset loco and stock ran one
    diagram, but this was only a short period, in, iirc, 2001, due to availablility of the HSTs (engine replacement times?).

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, January 31, 2026 22:28:30
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <z5sfR.13511$_pb.10480@fx11.ams1>, at 18:45:51 on Sat, 31 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <dLwcR.25796$BJ84.3478@fx17.ams1>, at 21:36:09 on Thu, 22 Jan >>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/ >>>>>>>
    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill >>>>> (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"

    I?m not disagreeing with that. But it?s not what you said.

    Let me remind you, yet again, that you said that all the sets overnighted >>>> at either Neville Hill or Cricklewood. That was simply wrong. They
    overnighted in all three depots.

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later >>>> became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't talking about
    a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph >>>> would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall, rather than back
    to Derby.?

    and

    ?Given that HSTs were sent ECS from Nottingham every evening to Neville >>>> Hill (Leeds), it makes no sense for there to have been an alternative
    facility so much closer, in Derby, that they might have used instead.? >>>>
    So you were wrong. Who?d have thunk it?

    Despite requests, you've failed to put a date to any of your
    information. So it's quite possible that *at the time I was
    describing* [towards the end of MML era] they didn't overnight
    at Derby. And then later, EMT decided to extend their existing
    facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet.

    When do you think the MML first got HSTs?

    Not sure I understand why that matters. But April 1996 I would have
    thought, inherited from InterCity.

    Correct. EMT always had HSTs in its fleet.

    So, what did you mean by, ?And then later, EMT decided to extend their
    existing facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet??


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, February 01, 2026 05:58:45
    In message <10llpfk$36psa$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:28 on Sat, 31 Jan
    2026, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
    On 31/01/2026 19:04, Roland Perry wrote:

    When do you think the MML first got HSTs?

    Not sure I understand why that matters. But April 1996 I would have >>thought, inherited from InterCity.

    Try 1982.

    OK, so *the* MML, not the topic being discussed, MML the TOC.

    Which makes the question even stranger.

    Some of the semi fasts still used the Peaks for haulage then,but they
    were being withdrawn rapidly, until in 85 or early 86, when there were
    only two loco hauled trains each day, which was when all services went
    over to HSTs.
    IIRC, it was one diagram, up and down, that used loco haulage. It was
    83 when the bulk of services were run by HSTs, only early and (very)
    late (possibly newspapers?), and perhaps an early evening departure
    from St. P continued with loco hauled stock.
    There were still occasional 'specials' or extras that used Loco Hauled >Services for a few years after that, but no scheduled LHS for regular >passenger work after 86 - all services were ran by HSTs.
    There was a short period when a Fragonset loco and stock ran one
    diagram, but this was only a short period, in, iirc, 2001, due to >availablility of the HSTs (engine replacement times?).

    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, February 01, 2026 06:08:16
    In message <imvfR.22084$mUza.11675@fx09.ams1>, at 22:28:30 on Sat, 31
    Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <z5sfR.13511$_pb.10480@fx11.ams1>, at 18:45:51 on Sat, 31 Jan
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <dLwcR.25796$BJ84.3478@fx17.ams1>, at 21:36:09 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/ >>>>>>>>
    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill >>>>>> (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"

    I?m not disagreeing with that. But it?s not what you said.

    Let me remind you, yet again, that you said that all the sets overnighted >>>>> at either Neville Hill or Cricklewood. That was simply wrong. They
    overnighted in all three depots.

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later >>>>> became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't >>>>>talking about
    a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph >>>>> would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall, rather >>>>>than back
    to Derby.?

    and

    ?Given that HSTs were sent ECS from Nottingham every evening to Neville >>>>> Hill (Leeds), it makes no sense for there to have been an alternative >>>>> facility so much closer, in Derby, that they might have used instead.? >>>>>
    So you were wrong. Who?d have thunk it?

    Despite requests, you've failed to put a date to any of your
    information. So it's quite possible that *at the time I was
    describing* [towards the end of MML era] they didn't overnight
    at Derby. And then later, EMT decided to extend their existing
    facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet.

    When do you think the MML first got HSTs?

    Not sure I understand why that matters. But April 1996 I would have
    thought, inherited from InterCity.

    Correct. EMT always had HSTs in its fleet.

    So, what did you mean by, ?And then later, EMT decided to extend their >existing facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet??

    Because in that context EMT is the successor to Central trains, plus
    MML-toc bolted on. So before the franchise existed they had no HSTs, but
    as soon as it started operating they did. And they also inherited the
    Derby depot, which was later extended to accommodate HSTs.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, February 01, 2026 12:46:44
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <imvfR.22084$mUza.11675@fx09.ams1>, at 22:28:30 on Sat, 31
    Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <z5sfR.13511$_pb.10480@fx11.ams1>, at 18:45:51 on Sat, 31 Jan >>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <dLwcR.25796$BJ84.3478@fx17.ams1>, at 21:36:09 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <iLpcR.12136$eEW.3584@fx16.ams1>, at 13:38:22 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    I suggest you both read this discussion:

    https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124685-where-have-hsts-been-based/ >>>>>>>>>
    Many thanks! So exactly what I said earlier.

    Except that it?s not.

    Have you not even read what it says:

    "Midland Mainline and Cross County sets were based at Leeds Neville Hill
    (NL)... HST's were also serviced at... Derby"

    I?m not disagreeing with that. But it?s not what you said.

    Let me remind you, yet again, that you said that all the sets overnighted
    at either Neville Hill or Cricklewood. That was simply wrong. They >>>>>> overnighted in all three depots.

    ?Observably, they headed off to Neville Hill, not Etches Park, and later >>>>>> became passenger services (to Sheffield and Leeds). We aren't
    talking about
    a lot of trains, just 1tph London to Nottingham. The London-Derby 1tph >>>>>> would have gone on to Sheffield, then ECS to Neville Hall, rather >>>>>> than back
    to Derby.?

    and

    ?Given that HSTs were sent ECS from Nottingham every evening to Neville >>>>>> Hill (Leeds), it makes no sense for there to have been an alternative >>>>>> facility so much closer, in Derby, that they might have used instead.? >>>>>>
    So you were wrong. Who?d have thunk it?

    Despite requests, you've failed to put a date to any of your
    information. So it's quite possible that *at the time I was
    describing* [towards the end of MML era] they didn't overnight
    at Derby. And then later, EMT decided to extend their existing
    facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet.

    When do you think the MML first got HSTs?

    Not sure I understand why that matters. But April 1996 I would have
    thought, inherited from InterCity.

    Correct. EMT always had HSTs in its fleet.

    So, what did you mean by, ?And then later, EMT decided to extend their
    existing facility at Derby, once they had HSTs in their fleet??

    Because in that context EMT is the successor to Central trains, plus
    MML-toc bolted on. So before the franchise existed they had no HSTs, but
    as soon as it started operating they did. And they also inherited the
    Derby depot, which was later extended to accommodate HSTs.

    It was the other way round.

    EMT was the intact MML franchise, still based in Derby, which absorbed the eastern bits of Central. Central Trains was a poorly regarded TOC, and was broken up in November 2007, with its services dispersed amongst London
    Midland, East Midlands Trains and CrossCountry.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)