On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 12:35:18 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
BUT - they do need a terrestrial signal which may well be unavailable. >>>>>
Yes, as I said upthread, remote areas without a good terrestrial signal are
among the few where satellite TV would be the better option.
Are there many of those left in the UK? Maybe a few isolated farms in some >>> deep valleys in the highlands where putting a repeater isn't financially >>> viable but not many other places.
The advent of LEO satellite Internet is going to provide connectivity to >>those who can?t get Fibre or Cellular. If you don?t like the owner of
Not particularly fast connectivity compared to ground based systems and with >the both sets of up and downlink delays. (User <-> satellite <-> base station)
On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 12:35:18 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
BUT - they do need a terrestrial signal which may well be unavailable. >>>>>
Yes, as I said upthread, remote areas without a good terrestrial signal are
among the few where satellite TV would be the better option.
Are there many of those left in the UK? Maybe a few isolated farms in some >>> deep valleys in the highlands where putting a repeater isn't financially >>> viable but not many other places.
The advent of LEO satellite Internet is going to provide connectivity to
those who can?t get Fibre or Cellular. If you don?t like the owner of
Not particularly fast connectivity compared to ground based systems and with the both sets of up and downlink delays. (User <-> satellite <-> base station)
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's
warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
There?s a reasonable analysis of the future of satellite broadcasting here:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uks-dth-transition-what-comes-after-satellites-paul-markham-pruye
(No login needed, at least not for me)
Some of his other articles are quite interesting as well.
On 21/01/2026 14:40, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 12:35:18 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
BUT - they do need a terrestrial signal which may well be unavailable. >>>>>>
Yes, as I said upthread, remote areas without a good terrestrial signal are
among the few where satellite TV would be the better option.
Are there many of those left in the UK? Maybe a few isolated farms in some >>>> deep valleys in the highlands where putting a repeater isn't financially >>>> viable but not many other places.
The advent of LEO satellite Internet is going to provide connectivity to >>> those who can?t get Fibre or Cellular. If you don?t like the owner of
Not particularly fast connectivity compared to ground based systems and with >> the both sets of up and downlink delays. (User <-> satellite <-> base station)
Next door neighbour tried satellite t'internet (not sure of the
providor) but gave up and reverted to using the copper BT system as the
sat option was so unreliable. Maybe the tall hill to the north
interfered too much?
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's
warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
GH
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's
warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old >gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's
warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old
gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
œ400 seems very high. I?ve looked at quite a number of installer sites and >œ300 seems to be the high end, œ100 a perhaps implausible low end.
On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> gabbled:
The advent of LEO satellite Internet is going to provide connectivity to >>those who can?t get Fibre or Cellular. If you don?t like the owner of
Not particularly fast connectivity compared to ground based systems and
with the both sets of up and downlink delays. (User <-> satellite <->
base station)
In message <mtche0F2081U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:41:20 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's
warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old
gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
Which doesn't even remotely address the issue I raised. (Selling kit you know will rot away very soon).
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's >>> warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old
gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
GH
œ400 seems very high. I?ve looked at quite a number of installer sites and œ300 seems to be the high end, œ100 a perhaps implausible low end.
In message <mtche0F2081U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:41:20 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's
warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old
gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
Which doesn't even remotely address the issue I raised. (Selling kit you know will rot away very soon).
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21 >>>> Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's >>>> warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it >>>> won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >>> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old >>> gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
GH
œ400 seems very high. I?ve looked at quite a number of installer sites and >> œ300 seems to be the high end, œ100 a perhaps implausible low end.
Perhaps all the local installers know what Roland is like .Awkward , strange, difficult, know all customers do get mentioned between tradesmen
of a given area ,Hence my expression of PIA value.
Pain in the Arses get higher quotes as the tradesman doesn?t really want the job.
In message <cafvmkhm92ifc8c9qeqttgk8jtcmshpo9a@4ax.com>, at 17:41:46 on
Tue, 20 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 09:25:39 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10km764$mopb$1@dont-email.me>, at 23:20:03 on Mon, 19 Jan >>>2026, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:AFAIR using a quad LNB was deliberate redundancy rather than just
There are quad-LNBs available but the common use for one of those would >>>>be two of the wires go to the upstairs STB and two of them go to the >>>>living room, say - routing all four cables to a single set-top box >>>>would be 'esoteric' at best (not least because of the size of holes you >>>>need to drill in the wall), so manufacturing a satellite PVR (or TV) >>>>with 4 tuners is basically pointless, or at least very much a niche* >>>>activity...
My infamous dish has twin co-ax to the living room and another twin
co-ax to the master bedroom.
using a twin LNB.
I couldn't care less what you recollect. Its usually wrong, anyway.
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the
industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more
because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.? But you're not going to be getting it over satellite
any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK
broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and
no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q
installation any more.? Now would not be a very smart time to invest in
a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant?
I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
Hopefully by then we will have fibre, but I am not holding my breath.
Like everybody else ?AFAIR using a quad LNB was deliberate redundancy rather than just
using a twin LNB.
I couldn't care less what you recollect. Its usually wrong, anyway.
œ400 seems very high. I?ve looked at quite a number of installer sites and >> œ300 seems to be the high end, œ100 a perhaps implausible low end.
Perhaps all the local installers know what Roland is like .Awkward , >strange, difficult, know all customers do get mentioned between tradesmen
of a given area ,Hence my expression of PIA value.
Pain in the Arses get higher quotes as the tradesman doesn?t really want >the job.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtche0F2081U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:41:20 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's >>>> warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that
various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it
won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >>> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old >>> gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
Which doesn't even remotely address the issue I raised. (Selling kit you
know will rot away very soon).
Your?e asking them do to something, they are offering to do at at a price
. If you are worried about the obsolesce you shouldn?t be asking for the
job to be done in the first place.
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
In message <mtcpvaF3c82U1@mid.individual.net>, at 20:07:06 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtche0F2081U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:41:20 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21 >>>>> Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's >>>>> warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that >>>>> various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it >>>>> won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >>>> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old >>>> gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
Which doesn't even remotely address the issue I raised. (Selling kit you >>> know will rot away very soon).
Your?e asking them do to something, they are offering to do at at a price >> . If you are worried about the obsolesce you shouldn?t be asking for the
job to be done in the first place.
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that
works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I
want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and
undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new
need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
In message <mtcpvaF3c82U1@mid.individual.net>, at 20:07:06 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtche0F2081U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:41:20 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21 >>>>> Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's >>>>> warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that >>>>> various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about œ400, even though it seems they should know it >>>>> won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too >>>> bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old >>>> gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
Which doesn't even remotely address the issue I raised. (Selling kit you >>> know will rot away very soon).
Your?e asking them do to something, they are offering to do at at a price >> . If you are worried about the obsolesce you shouldn?t be asking for the
job to be done in the first place.
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that
works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I
want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and
undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new
need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
In message <5vm2nk1c5b8l6kbles3pq4n3qu43alv80s@4ax.com>, at 23:06:34 on
Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
Like everybody else ?AFAIR using a quad LNB was deliberate redundancy rather than just
using a twin LNB.
I couldn't care less what you recollect. Its usually wrong, anyway.
No, you are persistently incorrect, much more than most other people.
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and
undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new
need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and
connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
If it is on the same wall which hopefully is reasonably flat a and vertical >and you are just going higher then it may not need further adjustment.
unless the dish has been knocked on its mount while handling.
Though spot on is ideal Sky dishes are flimsy things and bend about a tad
in wind, fortunately the design and signal strength is quite forgiving of >being a degree or so off.
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that
works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I
want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now
discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and
undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new
need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and
connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified >people to work at height.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtcpvaF3c82U1@mid.individual.net>, at 20:07:06 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtche0F2081U1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:41:20 on Wed, 21
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mtc1faFc6dqU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:08:58 on Wed, 21 >>>>>> Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it. >>>>>>I can (re-)fix it to the wall fairly easily (just need a day where it's >>>>>> warmer and dryer than at the moment), but I find it fascinating that >>>>>> various tradesmen in white vans are happy to sell me a brand new
installation for about ?400, even though it seems they should know it >>>>>> won't last very long.
Maybe they know that working with you has a high PIA value and are not too
bothered about doing the job. Many tradesman don?t like working with old >>>>> gear as it means faffing around if nuts are rusted and seized or a
component breaks.
Which doesn't even remotely address the issue I raised. (Selling kit you >>>> know will rot away very soon).
Your?e asking them do to something, they are offering to do at at a price >>> . If you are worried about the obsolesce you shouldn?t be asking for the >>> job to be done in the first place.
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that
works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I
want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now
discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and
undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new
need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and
connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
If it is on the same wall which hopefully is reasonably flat a and vertical >and you are just going higher then it may not need further adjustment.
unless the dish has been knocked on its mount while handling.
Though spot on is ideal Sky dishes are flimsy things and bend about a tad
in wind, fortunately the design and signal strength is quite forgiving of >being a degree or so off.
On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:40:07 -0000 (UTC), boltar wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> gabbled:
The advent of LEO satellite Internet is going to provide connectivity to >>> those who can?t get Fibre or Cellular. If you don?t like the owner of
Not particularly fast connectivity compared to ground based systems and
with the both sets of up and downlink delays. (User <-> satellite <->
base station)
Not that much of an issue. I've just checked and fast.com (Netflix) is
giving me a latency of 30ms. That's about the same as ADSL/VDSL. Fibre
would be lower of course.
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that
works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I
want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now >>> discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and
undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new
need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and
connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified
people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something the gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have A-level Use-of-Socket-Set?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that >>>> works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I
want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now >>>> discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and >>>> undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new >>>> need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and
connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified >>> people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something the
gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have A-level
Use-of-Socket-Set?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/the-law.htm
?Employers and those in control of any work at height activity must make
sure work is properly planned, supervised and carried out by competent people. This includes using the right type of equipment for working at height. Low-risk, relatively straightforward tasks will require less effort when it comes to planning.?
From HSE:
?Workplace Statistics (HSE Data)
Fatalities: Around 40-50 workers die yearly from falls from height, with ladders involved in a significant portion (nearly 40%).
Non-Fatal Injuries: Over 5,000 non-fatal injuries from falls from height
are reported under RIDDOR, with ladders being a primary cause.?
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person. See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
A degree or so off is enough to stuff the signal with a marginal
If it is on the same wall which hopefully is reasonably flat a and vertical >> and you are just going higher then it may not need further adjustment.
unless the dish has been knocked on its mount while handling.
Though spot on is ideal Sky dishes are flimsy things and bend about a tad
in wind, fortunately the design and signal strength is quite forgiving of
being a degree or so off.
signal path as demonstrated a few years ago when a new transponder on
an adjacent satellite was switched on and hundreds of $ky users to one
set of channels found themselves watching different services.
You might currently get away with it as the adjacent satellite
positions are mainly beaming to the Middle East but a new satellite or
beam either side of the nominal 28.3E position could spoil that.
Even on the same good wall there can be sufficient deviation to make a
small error even worse. Peaking up with a proper signal meter (as
Roland seems to have correctly considered) is essential as you have to consider e.g. bit error rate as well at signal strength.
On Thu, 22 Jan 2026 08:42:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <5vm2nk1c5b8l6kbles3pq4n3qu43alv80s@4ax.com>, at 23:06:34 on >>Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
Like everybody else ?AFAIR using a quad LNB was deliberate redundancy rather than just >>>>>using a twin LNB.
I couldn't care less what you recollect. Its usually wrong, anyway.
No, you are persistently incorrect, much more than most other people.
I am not the one who insists that black and white quotes of
Regulations and legislation say something other than what they plainly
say. I am not the one who claims to know more than everybody else. As
for "more than most other people", you need to analyse the quantity
and content of responses to you in this newsgroup.
On 22/01/2026 12:30, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that >>>>> works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I >>>>> want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now >>>>> discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and >>>>> undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new >>>>> need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and >>>>> connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified >>>> people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something the >>> gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have A-level >>> Use-of-Socket-Set?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/the-law.htm
?Employers and those in control of any work at height activity
must make sure work is properly planned, supervised and carried out
by competent people. This includes using the right type of equipment
for working at height. Low-risk, relatively straightforward tasks
will require less effort when it comes to planning.?
From HSE:
?Workplace Statistics (HSE Data)
Fatalities: Around 40-50 workers die yearly from falls from height, with
ladders involved in a significant portion (nearly 40%).
Non-Fatal Injuries: Over 5,000 non-fatal injuries from falls from height
are reported under RIDDOR, with ladders being a primary cause.?
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to >> this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just >> because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person.
See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
In message <10kt5sm$30943$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:40:54 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 22/01/2026 12:30, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan >>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that >>>>> works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I >>>>> want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now
discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more >>>>>> able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and >>>>> undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new >>>>> need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and >>>>> connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to >>>>> drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified
people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something the >>> gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have A-level >>> Use-of-Socket-Set?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/the-law.htm
?Employers and those in control of any work at height activity
must make sure work is properly planned, supervised and carried out
by competent people. This includes using the right type of equipment >>for working at height. Low-risk, relatively straightforward tasks
will require less effort when it comes to planning.?
From HSE:
?Workplace Statistics (HSE Data)
Fatalities: Around 40-50 workers die yearly from falls from height, with >> ladders involved in a significant portion (nearly 40%).
Non-Fatal Injuries: Over 5,000 non-fatal injuries from falls from height >> are reported under RIDDOR, with ladders being a primary cause.?
Those are the sort of things which make *me* reluctant to climb up
ladders, now I'm over 70. The gardener was probably in his 30's.
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to
this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just
because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person.
Nor does it mean he isn't competent. These are no ordinary ladders - he carries them around on a roof-rack on his van.
See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
See also people engaged in DIY hip replacements, which is about as
relevant in this context.
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
And what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too?
In message <10kt5sm$30943$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:40:54 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
And what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too?
In message <10kt5sm$30943$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:40:54 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 22/01/2026 12:30, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that >>>>>> works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I >>>>>> want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now >>>>>> discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more >>>>>>> able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and >>>>>> undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new >>>>>> need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and >>>>>> connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to >>>>>> drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified >>>>> people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something the >>>> gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have A-level >>>> Use-of-Socket-Set?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/the-law.htm
?Employers and those in control of any work at height activity
must make sure work is properly planned, supervised and carried out
by competent people. This includes using the right type of equipment
for working at height. Low-risk, relatively straightforward tasks
will require less effort when it comes to planning.?
From HSE:
?Workplace Statistics (HSE Data)
Fatalities: Around 40-50 workers die yearly from falls from height, with >>> ladders involved in a significant portion (nearly 40%).
Non-Fatal Injuries: Over 5,000 non-fatal injuries from falls from height >>> are reported under RIDDOR, with ladders being a primary cause.?
Those are the sort of things which make *me* reluctant to climb up
ladders, now I'm over 70. The gardener was probably in his 30's.
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to >>> this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just >>> because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person.
Nor does it mean he isn't competent. These are no ordinary ladders - he carries them around on a roof-rack on his van.
See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
See also people engaged in DIY hip replacements, which is about as
relevant in this context.
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
And what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too?
In message <10kt5sm$30943$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:40:54 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 22/01/2026 12:30, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish >>>>>> that
works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I >>>>>> want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which >>>>>> I now
discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice.ÿ no more >>>>>>> able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his
ladder and
undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now >>>>>> I new
need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and >>>>>> connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to >>>>>> drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading
unqualified
people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something
the
gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have
A-level
Use-of-Socket-Set?
ÿhttps://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/the-law.htm
ÿ?Employers and those in control of any work at height activity must
makeÿ sure work is properly planned, supervised and carried out by
competentÿ people. This includes using the right type of equipment
for working atÿ height. Low-risk, relatively straightforward tasks
will require less effortÿ when it comes to planning.?
ÿ From HSE:
ÿ?Workplace Statistics (HSE Data)
Fatalities: Around 40-50 workers die yearly from falls from height, with >>> ladders involved in a significant portion (nearly 40%).
Non-Fatal Injuries: Over 5,000 non-fatal injuries from falls from height >>> are reported under RIDDOR, with ladders being a primary cause.?
Those are the sort of things which make *me* reluctant to climb up
ladders, now I'm over 70. The gardener was probably in his 30's.
ÿSky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then
secured to
this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up
ladders. Just
because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person.
Nor does it mean he isn't competent. These are no ordinary ladders - he carries them around on a roof-rack on his van.
See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
See also people engaged in DIY hip replacements, which is about as
relevant in this context.
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
And what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too?
In message <10kb06j$sfta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:13:23 on Thu, 15 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
PVRs as a separate box are dead. Most TVs have PVR functionality
in them, but no mass storage, and usually won't record streamed
programming.
And I've yet to find one which will accept a thumb drive as that mass
storage, rather than insist on an external usb-HDD, which is deep into
geek territory.
I guess our local Apple Store, which has a wall of USB HDDs (and USB SSDs) >> is geek territory, then. You do have to go upstairs to find them, along
with most of the other accessories.
The issue here is that if you take a storage thumb drive from there
back home, will your Smart-TV recognise it as acceptable. Every one
I've tried insists that only things self-identifying as external HDDs
will work.
And yes, I've tried numerous hacks suggested by random bloggers, to
force a thumb drive identify as an HDD, but none worked.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>> Janÿ 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote:
That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by >>>>>>>>>>>> regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
ÿ ÿThere's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
ÿ ÿSome of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail).
Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours" >>>>>>>>> cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage
carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can
probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, which might provide hotel power.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>>> Janÿ 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote:
That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by >>>>>>>>>>>>> regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
ÿ ÿThere's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
ÿ ÿSome of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail).
Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours" >>>>>>>>>> cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage
carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can
probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted >> in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, >> which might provide hotel power.
One of the train consist[1] diagrams shown here recently showed at least
one and possibly two generator cars, IIRC.
[1] Nasty N.American term, but I can?t remember the British version just
now.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>>>> Janÿ 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote:
That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
ÿ ÿThere's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
ÿ ÿSome of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail). >>>>>>>>>>>Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours" >>>>>>>>>>> cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage >>>>>>>> carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can >>>> probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted >>> in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, >>> which might provide hotel power.
One of the train consist[1] diagrams shown here recently showed at least
one and possibly two generator cars, IIRC.
Clan Line has the Mercator support coach, and the Pullman set has what?s labelled as the Baggage Car. It?s a day train, so I?m not sure it needs an actual baggage car, so it might actually be the staff coach that includes a generator.
[1] Nasty N.American term, but I can?t remember the British version just
now.
Perhaps ?rake??
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>>> Janÿ 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote:
That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by >>>>>>>>>>>>> regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
ÿ ÿThere's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
ÿ ÿSome of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail).
Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours" >>>>>>>>>> cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage
carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can
probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted >> in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, >> which might provide hotel power.
One of the train consist[1] diagrams shown here recently showed at least
one and possibly two generator cars, IIRC.
[1] Nasty N.American term, but I can?t remember the British version just
now.
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
And what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too?
I?m not saying he hasn?t, but did you check any of this before asking him? >It?s reasonable to assume, as a lay person, that someone who advertises his >services as a tree pruner is competent as a tree pruner. But if you ask
them to go outside of their advertised role then some duty will fall upon
you to check.
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a >>>surprising amount to cover.
And what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that
too?
Cost
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10kb06j$sfta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:13:23 on Thu, 15 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
PVRs as a separate box are dead. Most TVs have PVR functionality
in them, but no mass storage, and usually won't record streamed
programming.
And I've yet to find one which will accept a thumb drive as that mass
storage, rather than insist on an external usb-HDD, which is deep into >>>> geek territory.
I guess our local Apple Store, which has a wall of USB HDDs (and USB SSDs) >>> is geek territory, then. You do have to go upstairs to find them, along >>> with most of the other accessories.
The issue here is that if you take a storage thumb drive from there
back home, will your Smart-TV recognise it as acceptable. Every one
I've tried insists that only things self-identifying as external HDDs
will work.
And yes, I've tried numerous hacks suggested by random bloggers, to
force a thumb drive identify as an HDD, but none worked.
My apologies - I understood you as saying that external usb-HDDs were deep >into geek territory,
rather than persuading a thumb drive to be used as mass storage by
these
particular devices.
In message <10ktg9q$34d3k$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:38:34 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
ÿAnd what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too?
Cost
That's a matter between him, and *his* insurance company.
The reference to electrical wiring is that also requires a
?competent person?, the same wording used by the HSE for working at height.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <mt6e65FdvejU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:09:09 on Mon, 19
Jan 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1768809393-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 07:56:33 on Mon, 19 Jan >>>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <kuvpmk9e22mfldm325dhg7e21vq1s7vdht@4ax.com>, at 15:58:54 on >>>>>> Sun, 18 Jan 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
don't need to add arbitrary 'invisible' words (ie, corrections) later. >>>>>>They aren't corrections, but are clarifications for those who seem to >>>>>> find it difficult to put things into the right context.
You need lots of such clarifications.
I need to make quite a few clarifications, due I suspect to the
deliberate misinterpretation some posters** enjoy.
** That's people posting here, not sheets of paper glued to the wall.
They could be Bills.
He's innocent.
Bit of a stuck up character anyway.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18
Janÿ 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by
regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
ÿ ÿThere's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
ÿ ÿSome of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail). >>>>>>>>>>>>Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours"
cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage >>>>>>>>> carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can >>>>> probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted
in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, >>>> which might provide hotel power.
One of the train consist[1] diagrams shown here recently showed at least >>> one and possibly two generator cars, IIRC.
Clan Line has the Mercator support coach, and the Pullman set has what?s
labelled as the Baggage Car. It?s a day train, so I?m not sure it needs an >> actual baggage car, so it might actually be the staff coach that includes a >> generator.
https://www.kentrail.org.uk/baggage_car_no_11.htm
[1] Nasty N.American term, but I can?t remember the British version just >>> now.
Perhaps ?rake??
Or ?formation??
On 22/01/2026 16:19, Sam Wilson wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>>>> Janÿ 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote:
That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
ÿ ÿThere's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
ÿ ÿSome of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail). >>>>>>>>>>>Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours" >>>>>>>>>>> cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage
carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can >>>> probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted >>> in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, >>> which might provide hotel power.
One of the train consist[1] diagrams shown here recently showed at least
one and possibly two generator cars, IIRC.
[1] Nasty N.American term, but I can?t remember the British version just
now.
Rake?
In message <10ktgld$34iat$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:45 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10kb06j$sfta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:13:23 on Thu, 15 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
PVRs as a separate box are dead. Most TVs have PVR functionality
in them, but no mass storage, and usually won't record streamed
programming.
And I've yet to find one which will accept a thumb drive as that mass >>>>> storage, rather than insist on an external usb-HDD, which is deep into >>>>> geek territory.
I guess our local Apple Store, which has a wall of USB HDDs (and USB SSDs) >>>> is geek territory, then. You do have to go upstairs to find them, along >>>> with most of the other accessories.
The issue here is that if you take a storage thumb drive from there
back home, will your Smart-TV recognise it as acceptable. Every one
I've tried insists that only things self-identifying as external HDDs
will work.
And yes, I've tried numerous hacks suggested by random bloggers, to
force a thumb drive identify as an HDD, but none worked.
My apologies - I understood you as saying that external usb-HDDs were deep >> into geek territory,
I did, and stand by it.
In message <10koo3o$1hira$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:21:12 on Tue, 20 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Well I?ve just looked up a random shiny new TV on the Samsung website. It >>>> has all sorts of bells and whistles, but it still has an analogue tuner >>>> according to the detailed specifications.Analogue turnoff was complete by 2012, so it's hard to believeIt is where I bought mine although that was a couple of years ago now. >>>>>And you can buy them in supermarkets??Modern TVs can do those things, but not (and I quote again) "elderly >>>>>>>>> TVs".It is a relative term. Technology can become "elderly" fairly quickly >>>>>>>> nowadays, e.g. televisions which still have analogue capability. >>>>>>>
supermarkets were still selling sets equipment with it, "a couple of >>>>> years ago".
Unless he wants to play the "Invisible words" game, an 'elderly TV'
would *only* have analogue tuner.
My elderly TV (with built in VHS player) has analogue at least RF, SCART
and composite video. It?s about 25 years old and it worked well last time >> I tried it, though I?ve never actually used it for broadcast TV reception - >> it was just for VHS and PlayStation use.
But could you go to a UK supermarket and buy one like that *today*,
which was alleged.
Rake?
Yes, thank you.
In message <10l09pu$2spt$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:06:06 on Fri, 23 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Rake?
Yes, thank you.
That's progress.
In message <10l09pu$2spt$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:06:06 on Fri, 23 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Rake?
Yes, thank you.
That's progress.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10koo3o$1hira$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:21:12 on Tue, 20 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Well I?ve just looked up a random shiny new TV on the Samsung >>>>>website. ItAnalogue turnoff was complete by 2012, so it's hard to believeIt is where I bought mine although that was a couple of years ago now. >>>>>>And you can buy them in supermarkets??Modern TVs can do those things, but not (and I quote again) "elderly >>>>>>>>>> TVs".It is a relative term. Technology can become "elderly" fairly quickly >>>>>>>>> nowadays, e.g. televisions which still have analogue capability. >>>>>>>>
supermarkets were still selling sets equipment with it, "a couple of >>>>>> years ago".
has all sorts of bells and whistles, but it still has an analogue tuner >>>>> according to the detailed specifications.
Unless he wants to play the "Invisible words" game, an 'elderly TV'
would *only* have analogue tuner.
My elderly TV (with built in VHS player) has analogue at least RF, SCART >>> and composite video. It?s about 25 years old and it worked well last time >>> I tried it, though I?ve never actually used it for broadcast TV >>>reception -
it was just for VHS and PlayStation use.
But could you go to a UK supermarket and buy one like that *today*,
which was alleged.
I doubt it. But it is elderly so perhaps we could play the invisible >clarifications game and you can tell us whether the bells and whistles >included other inputs as well as the analogue tuner?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ktgld$34iat$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:45 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10kb06j$sfta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:13:23 on Thu, 15 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
PVRs as a separate box are dead. Most TVs have PVR functionality
in them, but no mass storage, and usually won't record streamed
programming.
And I've yet to find one which will accept a thumb drive as that mass >>>>>> storage, rather than insist on an external usb-HDD, which is deep into >>>>>> geek territory.
I guess our local Apple Store, which has a wall of USB HDDs (and USB SSDs)
is geek territory, then. You do have to go upstairs to find them, along >>>>> with most of the other accessories.
The issue here is that if you take a storage thumb drive from there
back home, will your Smart-TV recognise it as acceptable. Every one
I've tried insists that only things self-identifying as external HDDs
will work.
And yes, I've tried numerous hacks suggested by random bloggers, to
force a thumb drive identify as an HDD, but none worked.
My apologies - I understood you as saying that external usb-HDDs were deep >>> into geek territory,
I did, and stand by it.
Oh, OK. In that case I?ll point out again that several different ones are >available from the Apple Store, or from John Lewis, and they are readily >available online from various retailers.
I don?t regard these outlets as very far into geek territory, and
definitely not deep.
In message <10l0a39$3183$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:11:05 on Fri, 23 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ktgld$34iat$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:44:45 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10kb06j$sfta$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:13:23 on Thu, 15 Jan >>>>> 2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
PVRs as a separate box are dead. Most TVs have PVR functionality >>>>>>> in them, but no mass storage, and usually won't record streamed
programming.
And I've yet to find one which will accept a thumb drive as that mass >>>>>>> storage, rather than insist on an external usb-HDD, which is deep into >>>>>>> geek territory.
I guess our local Apple Store, which has a wall of USB HDDs (and USB SSDs)
is geek territory, then. You do have to go upstairs to find them, along >>>>>> with most of the other accessories.
The issue here is that if you take a storage thumb drive from there
back home, will your Smart-TV recognise it as acceptable. Every one
I've tried insists that only things self-identifying as external HDDs >>>>> will work.
And yes, I've tried numerous hacks suggested by random bloggers, to
force a thumb drive identify as an HDD, but none worked.
My apologies - I understood you as saying that external usb-HDDs were deep >>>> into geek territory,
I did, and stand by it.
Oh, OK. In that case I?ll point out again that several different ones are >> available from the Apple Store, or from John Lewis, and they are readily
available online from various retailers.
I don?t regard these outlets as very far into geek territory, and
definitely not deep.
They all sell a very wide range of stuff. For example today I was
looking at œ200 thermal imaging cameras, which is definitely geeky.
Anyone here got one? [My GF has one that plugs into the lightning
connector on the bottom of old iPhones, bought almost exactly ten
years ago]
today I was
looking at ?200 thermal imaging cameras, which is definitely geeky.
Anyone here got one? [My GF has one that plugs into the lightning
connector on the bottom of old iPhones, bought almost exactly ten
years ago]
I have two, via work. Flir
In message <ig04nk9aeva53qevte3udmm3bkk9tr7qd2@4ax.com>, at 11:00:02 on
Thu, 22 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2026 08:42:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <5vm2nk1c5b8l6kbles3pq4n3qu43alv80s@4ax.com>, at 23:06:34 on >>>Wed, 21 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
Like everybody else ?AFAIR using a quad LNB was deliberate redundancy rather than just >>>>>>using a twin LNB.
I couldn't care less what you recollect. Its usually wrong, anyway.
No, you are persistently incorrect, much more than most other people.
I am not the one who insists that black and white quotes of
Regulations and legislation say something other than what they plainly
say. I am not the one who claims to know more than everybody else. As
for "more than most other people", you need to analyse the quantity
and content of responses to you in this newsgroup.
Get out of bed the wrong side, did you?
All the things you say have been debunked over and over again. I simply >refuse to do it yet again.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that >>>> works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I
want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now >>>> discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more
able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and >>>> undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new >>>> need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and
connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to
drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified >>> people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something the
gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have A-level
Use-of-Socket-Set?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/the-law.htm
?Employers and those in control of any work at height activity must make
sure work is properly planned, supervised and carried out by competent >people. This includes using the right type of equipment for working at >height. Low-risk, relatively straightforward tasks will require less effort >when it comes to planning.?
From HSE:
?Workplace Statistics (HSE Data)
Fatalities: Around 40-50 workers die yearly from falls from height, with >ladders involved in a significant portion (nearly 40%).
Non-Fatal Injuries: Over 5,000 non-fatal injuries from falls from height
are reported under RIDDOR, with ladders being a primary cause.?
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to >this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just >because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person. See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10kt5sm$30943$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:40:54 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 22/01/2026 12:30, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ksptf$2sgtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:31 on Thu, 22 Jan >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
You've completely misunderstood the brief. I have a 25yr old dish that >>>>>>> works perfectly well (and I like because it's "vintage" tech). All I >>>>>>> want is for it to be moved about six feet.
What I don't want is to pay for completely new installation (which I now
discover will only work for a few years).
As you don?t wish to DIY it you don?t have much choice. no more >>>>>>>> able friends who could do it?
I've paid someone who is a gardener by trade to climb up his ladder and >>>>>>> undo the four blots with a socket set and take the dish down. Now I new >>>>>>> need to adjust the length of the co-ax (already have spare cable and >>>>>>> connectors), then find someone who has a ladder *and* the skills to >>>>>>> drill four holes, to put it back up. Then point it in the right
direction while I monitor the signal strength.
I hope you are very well insured, now that you are persuading unqualified
people to work at height.
Why are they unqualified? In this instance the ladders are something the >>>>> gardener uses to prune trees. Or do you mean he also has to have A-level >>>>> Use-of-Socket-Set?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/the-law.htm
?Employers and those in control of any work at height activity
must make sure work is properly planned, supervised and carried out
by competent people. This includes using the right type of equipment >>>> for working at height. Low-risk, relatively straightforward tasks
will require less effort when it comes to planning.?
From HSE:
?Workplace Statistics (HSE Data)
Fatalities: Around 40-50 workers die yearly from falls from height, with >>>> ladders involved in a significant portion (nearly 40%).
Non-Fatal Injuries: Over 5,000 non-fatal injuries from falls from height >>>> are reported under RIDDOR, with ladders being a primary cause.?
Those are the sort of things which make *me* reluctant to climb up
ladders, now I'm over 70. The gardener was probably in his 30's.
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to
this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just
because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person.
Nor does it mean he isn't competent. These are no ordinary ladders - he
carries them around on a roof-rack on his van.
See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
See also people engaged in DIY hip replacements, which is about as
relevant in this context.
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
And what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too?
I?m not saying he hasn?t, but did you check any of this before asking him? >It?s reasonable to assume, as a lay person, that someone who advertises his >services as a tree pruner is competent as a tree pruner. But if you ask
them to go outside of their advertised role then some duty will fall upon
you to check. The reference to electrical wiring is that also requires a >?competent person?, the same wording used by the HSE for working at height.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>>> Jan? 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote:
That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by >>>>>>>>>>>>> regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
? ?There's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
? ?Some of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail).
Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours" >>>>>>>>>> cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage
carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can
probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted >> in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, >> which might provide hotel power.
One of the train consist[1] diagrams shown here recently showed at least
one and possibly two generator cars, IIRC.
[1] Nasty N.American term, but I can?t remember the British version just
now.
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to >this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just >because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person. See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
Not everyone needs more than two tuners!
In message <q9evmkhfkgt9sjms4urop35u4kknhrajsu@4ax.com>, at 17:22:13 on
Tue, 20 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 09:24:36 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <UnybR.5639$rCS6.478@fx14.ams1>, at 22:38:44 on Mon, 19 JanAmplifiers can amplify noise so it sometimes works better to go for a
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
In my experience, terrestrial antennas are also a lot more robust, being >>>> far less affected by storms or foliage. They also don?t need precise
alignment. So, in my view, in the UK at least, Freesat was a dead end.
In my previous house the terrestrial antenna had a masthead amplifier
attached, which not only increased the house's base-load slightly, but
came to be somewhat affected by bad weather. I've never had that sort of >>> issue with a satellite dish.
cleaner signal on the aerial(s) even if it is actually weaker.
Yes, they *can* but normally they *don't*. Next contestant please!!
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
Not everyone needs more than two tuners!
I have one that clips to the end of my acoustic guitar and a foot pedal
that works for whichever bass guitar I?m using - choice of two on an A-B switch. If I played electric too I might need a third, but two is enough
for me.
Oh, I see. . . :-)
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <q9evmkhfkgt9sjms4urop35u4kknhrajsu@4ax.com>, at 17:22:13 on
Tue, 20 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 09:24:36 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <UnybR.5639$rCS6.478@fx14.ams1>, at 22:38:44 on Mon, 19 Jan >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:Amplifiers can amplify noise so it sometimes works better to go for a
In my experience, terrestrial antennas are also a lot more robust, being >>>>> far less affected by storms or foliage. They also don?t need precise >>>>> alignment. So, in my view, in the UK at least, Freesat was a dead end. >>>>In my previous house the terrestrial antenna had a masthead amplifier
attached, which not only increased the house's base-load slightly, but >>>> came to be somewhat affected by bad weather. I've never had that sort of >>>> issue with a satellite dish.
cleaner signal on the aerial(s) even if it is actually weaker.
Yes, they *can* but normally they *don't*. Next contestant please!!
Surely that depends on the quality of the amplifier. All amplifiers will
add some noise, reducing the SNR, but the result depends on how good the
amp is.
Get out of bed the wrong side, did you?Rubbish. You cannot deny what is in plain view in legislation.
All the things you say have been debunked over and over again. I simply >>refuse to do it yet again.
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an >>eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to >>this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just >>because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a >>competent person. See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.See also plumbers who think they are qualified electricians when they
bodge in a washing machine.
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.ÿ But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK
broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q
installation any more.ÿ Now would not be a very smart time to invest in >>>>> a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it
was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
On 22/01/2026 19:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10ktg9q$34d3k$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:38:34 on Thu, 22 Jan
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Many years ago I did a course on Working at Heights, there is a
surprising amount to cover.
ÿAnd what makes you think a chap who prunes trees hasn't done that too? >>>Cost
That's a matter between him, and *his* insurance company.
Assuming he is insured, many small businessmen skip that.
On Thu, 22 Jan 2026 12:30:17 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to >> this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just >> because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person. See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
Some years ago, I'd just moved into a new house and needed a satellite dish installing. So I called Sky, and they sent a team round a week later. They looked at my house, then sucked air through their teeth and said "Sorry guv, we can't do this, it will need a special heights team" (I paraphrase slightly), the reason being that the only suitable mounting point was the chimney which was higher than their ladder.
So I phoned Sky again, and asked for a special heights team, and they told
me they could get one to me in about six weeks time.
I told them I'd get back to them, then called a local independent installer. They said "Are you at home now? If so, we can come round in about an hour's time". I was at home, and said so, so they did, indeed, turn up about an
hour later and installed the dish on the chimney.
I asked them why there were able to do it so quickly. They explained that about half of their business was commercial dish and antenna work, including at-height work on communications masts. But they had a strict H&S rule that they couldn't work above a certain height when the wind was stronger than a certain level. Which it was, on the day I called them. So they just happened to have a crew sitting around hoping that either the wind would drop or they'd get a non wind-sensitive job to do. I provided them with the latter, so they were able to do it immediately.
On 23/01/2026 22:06, Sam Wilson wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
Not everyone needs more than two tuners!
I have one that clips to the end of my acoustic guitar and a foot pedal
that works for whichever bass guitar I?m using - choice of two on an A-B
switch. If I played electric too I might need a third, but two is enough
for me.
Oh, I see. . . :-)
Recently had a play with a guitar that tunes itself! Not come across
those before.
On Thu, 22 Jan 2026 16:19:14 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:"Formation" ?
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/01/2026 14:36, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 07:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:
On 18/01/2026 17:58, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/01/2026 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kiv1t$3htg5$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:42:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>> Jan
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 18/01/2026 15:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10kis9o$3fo8m$3@dont-email.me>, at 14:55:52 on Sun, 18 >>>>>>>>>>>> Janÿ 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2026 01:02:44 GMT, Recliner wrote:
That got me thinking ? is Keighley the only UK station shared by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular
steam and 25kV electric trains?
I think that might be the case. If you'd not specified 25kV >>>>>>>>>>>>> there are a
few third rail stations - Smallbrook Junction for example. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> closest I
can get is Cholsey, but the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway >>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly runs
diesel services.
ÿ ÿThere's quite a few railtours each year from Kings Cross >>>>>>>>>>>> (25kV) and
Victoria (3rd Rail).
ÿ ÿSome of the latter pass Reading (25kV and 3rd rail). >>>>>>>>>>>Ooooo, do I hear goalposts being stretched again? Note, "railtours" >>>>>>>>>>> cannot be compared to "a regular service".
I was "doing an Ulf", to see if anyone would notice :)
Although some can be quire regular - not sure if still running but >>>>>>>>>> the
Orient Express dinner train doing a circuit of Surrey was, at one >>>>>>>>>> time.
Seems to have gone from a regular service to the occasional, last >>>>>>>>> saw it
about 18 months ago. Though as it is mostly Clan Line I don't make a >>>>>>>>> special effort to go and watch it.
I get the feeling that most British Pullman trips are hauled by one >>>>>>>> of the
Belmond liveried 67s. Their typical customers aren?t too bothered by >>>>>>>> the
traction ? they?re there for the beautifully restored vintage >>>>>>>> carriages,
fine dining and superb service.
Agreed, but for a while it was regularly steam-hauled.
So, without hotel power?
Just perrying...
:-)
Naughty!
Generator/staff car at rear. IIRC it is a Mk2 vehicle but Recliner can >>>> probably confirm.
Clan Line?s support coach is Mark 2A BFK carriage 17096 'Mercator', painted >>> in Pullman livery. I?m not sure if it includes a generator.
Of course, even when steam-hauled, the Pullman often has a 67 at the rear, >>> which might provide hotel power.
One of the train consist[1] diagrams shown here recently showed at least
one and possibly two generator cars, IIRC.
[1] Nasty N.American term, but I can?t remember the British version just
now.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.ÿ But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK
broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q
installation any more.ÿ Now would not be a very smart time to invest in >>>>> a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
Consequential questions I could probably just look up (but where would the fun be in that?): Do the operators of geostationary satellites have an obligation to deorbit them when they?re life-expired? How much propellant would they need to retain to do that safely?
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.ÿ But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK
broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q
installation any more.ÿ Now would not be a very smart time to invest in >>>>>> a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British
Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite
system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who >> moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it
was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of >> the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator >> now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
Consequential questions I could probably just look up (but where would the fun be in that?): Do the operators of geostationary satellites have an obligation to deorbit them when they?re life-expired? How much propellant would they need to retain to do that safely?
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.ÿ But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK
broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q
installation any more.ÿ Now would not be a very smart time to invest in >>>>>> a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British
Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite
system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who >> moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it
was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of >> the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator >> now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
Consequential questions I could probably just look up (but where would the fun be in that?): Do the operators of geostationary satellites have an obligation to deorbit them when they?re life-expired? How much propellant would they need to retain to do that safely?
Sam
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 23/01/2026 22:06, Sam Wilson wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
Not everyone needs more than two tuners!
I have one that clips to the end of my acoustic guitar and a foot pedal
that works for whichever bass guitar I?m using - choice of two on an A-B >>> switch. If I played electric too I might need a third, but two is enough >>> for me.
Oh, I see. . . :-)
Recently had a play with a guitar that tunes itself! Not come across
those before.
Gibson Robot? Not hugely popular in the end!
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit an
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to >>> this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just >>> because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person. See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring.
Some years ago, I'd just moved into a new house and needed a satellite dish >> installing. So I called Sky, and they sent a team round a week later. They >> looked at my house, then sucked air through their teeth and said "Sorry guv, >> we can't do this, it will need a special heights team" (I paraphrase
slightly), the reason being that the only suitable mounting point was the
chimney which was higher than their ladder.
So I phoned Sky again, and asked for a special heights team, and they told >> me they could get one to me in about six weeks time.
I told them I'd get back to them, then called a local independent installer. >> They said "Are you at home now? If so, we can come round in about an hour's >> time". I was at home, and said so, so they did, indeed, turn up about an
hour later and installed the dish on the chimney.
I asked them why there were able to do it so quickly. They explained that
about half of their business was commercial dish and antenna work, including >> at-height work on communications masts. But they had a strict H&S rule that >> they couldn't work above a certain height when the wind was stronger than a >> certain level. Which it was, on the day I called them. So they just happened >> to have a crew sitting around hoping that either the wind would drop or
they'd get a non wind-sensitive job to do. I provided them with the latter, >> so they were able to do it immediately.
My University specified 2.4 m as the maximum working height for a single >person working from a ladder, so all our WiFi access points were installed
on walls at 2.4 m. The obsolete ones that had previously been installed on >ceilings with scaffolding towers were just left in place after they were no >longer needed.
In message <10l2gq2$qogg$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:17:54 on Sat, 24 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Sky installers, and also Fibre dropwire installers, drill and fit anSome years ago, I'd just moved into a new house and needed a satellite dish >>> installing. So I called Sky, and they sent a team round a week later. They >>> looked at my house, then sucked air through their teeth and said "Sorry guv,
eyebolt as the first thing they do at height. The ladder is then secured to
this. It may surprise, but there?s also training for going up ladders. Just
because your gardener uses a ladder doesn?t necessarily mean he?s a
competent person. See also people fiddling with home electrical wiring. >>>
we can't do this, it will need a special heights team" (I paraphrase
slightly), the reason being that the only suitable mounting point was the >>> chimney which was higher than their ladder.
So I phoned Sky again, and asked for a special heights team, and they told >>> me they could get one to me in about six weeks time.
I told them I'd get back to them, then called a local independent installer.
They said "Are you at home now? If so, we can come round in about an hour's >>> time". I was at home, and said so, so they did, indeed, turn up about an >>> hour later and installed the dish on the chimney.
I asked them why there were able to do it so quickly. They explained that >>> about half of their business was commercial dish and antenna work, including
at-height work on communications masts. But they had a strict H&S rule that >>> they couldn't work above a certain height when the wind was stronger than a >>> certain level. Which it was, on the day I called them. So they just happened
to have a crew sitting around hoping that either the wind would drop or
they'd get a non wind-sensitive job to do. I provided them with the latter, >>> so they were able to do it immediately.
My University specified 2.4 m as the maximum working height for a single
person working from a ladder, so all our WiFi access points were installed >> on walls at 2.4 m. The obsolete ones that had previously been installed on >> ceilings with scaffolding towers were just left in place after they were no >> longer needed.
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
My University specified 2.4 m as the maximum working height for a single person working from a ladder, so all our WiFi access points were installed
on walls at 2.4 m.
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in
pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double
heading with small locos.
In message <10l3220$10stl$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:12:16 on Sat, 24 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in
pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double
heading with small locos.
Why don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
In message <q9evmkhfkgt9sjms4urop35u4kknhrajsu@4ax.com>, at 17:22:13 on
Tue, 20 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2026 09:24:36 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <UnybR.5639$rCS6.478@fx14.ams1>, at 22:38:44 on Mon, 19 Jan >>>2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:Amplifiers can amplify noise so it sometimes works better to go for a >>cleaner signal on the aerial(s) even if it is actually weaker.
In my experience, terrestrial antennas are also a lot more robust, being >>>>far less affected by storms or foliage. They also don?t need precise >>>>alignment. So, in my view, in the UK at least, Freesat was a dead end.
In my previous house the terrestrial antenna had a masthead amplifier >>>attached, which not only increased the house's base-load slightly, but >>>came to be somewhat affected by bad weather. I've never had that sort of >>>issue with a satellite dish.
Yes, they *can* but normally they *don't*. Next contestant please!!
In message <jql7nktorpcs4t0l4mreimdpoqpo0vfeio@4ax.com>, at 20:18:06 on
Fri, 23 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
Get out of bed the wrong side, did you?Rubbish. You cannot deny what is in plain view in legislation.
All the things you say have been debunked over and over again. I simply >>>refuse to do it yet again.
What you refuse to acknowledge is that "the law" is more than the words
on the face of an Act. Most obviously of course case-law. But also >interpretation of words like "necessary", which generally means "only if >there's absolutely no other way of doing it".
In the case overhead structures, there's overlapping considerations from
the sphere of planning, and which has its own rules, one of which is
"don't give planning permission for such a thing unless there are >exceptional circumstances", which having a much bashed bridge doesn't
even come close.
In message <10l3220$10stl$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:12:16 on Sat, 24 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in >>pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double >>heading with small locos.
Why don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.ÿ But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK
broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q
installation any more.ÿ Now would not be a very smart time to invest in >>>>>> a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British
Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite
system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who >> moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it
was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of >> the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator >> now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
Consequential questions I could probably just look up (but where would the fun be in that?): Do the operators of geostationary satellites have an obligation to deorbit them when they?re life-expired? How much propellant would they need to retain to do that safely?
On 24/01/2026 15:11, Sam Wilson wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.ÿ But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK >>>>>>> broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q >>>>>>> installation any more.ÿ Now would not be a very smart time to invest in >>>>>>> a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British >>> Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite
system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who >>> moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it >>> was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of >>> the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator >>> now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
Consequential questions I could probably just look up (but where would the >> fun be in that?): Do the operators of geostationary satellites have an
obligation to deorbit them when they?re life-expired? How much propellant >> would they need to retain to do that safely?
Yes, geostationary satellites all get moved to a so-called 'graveyard
orbit' at end of life (it's not practical to deorbit them - LEO
satellites though will be deorbited and allowed to burn up.)
I'm not smart (or motivated ;-)) enough to calculate the propellant
required to move a satellite another 300km farther from the
geostationary orbit (that being the typical graveyard location,) but I
think the key point is that "let's just try and eke the propellant out
until it stops working" isn't an option to keep the things going - there >will need to be a defined point at which they say "enough is enough".
In message <10l3220$10stl$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:12:16 on Sat, 24 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in
pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double
heading with small locos.
Why don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
On 24/01/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10l3220$10stl$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:12:16 on Sat, 24
Jan 2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in
pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double
heading with small locos.
Why don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
They do, even to replace an ONT, and more often in fours for the FTTP
install around me; with a cherry picker if they need the top of the
pole. A suprising amount of new connectors only about 8' from the ground.
The bloke that fixed the wires to the houses at eaves level using a
ladder, by himself, was a contractor.
In message <10l5djp$1kb6t$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:41:46 on Sun, 25 Jan
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 24/01/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10l3220$10stl$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:12:16 on Sat, 24 Jan >>> 2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in
pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double
heading with small locos.
ÿWhy don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
They do, even to replace an ONT, and more often in fours for the FTTP
install around me; with a cherry picker if they need the top of the pole. >> A suprising amount of new connectors only about 8' from the ground.
The bloke that fixed the wires to the houses at eaves level using a
ladder, by himself, was a contractor.
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an Openreach person") have different rules?
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.ÿ But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK >>>>>>> broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q >>>>>>> installation any more.ÿ Now would not be a very smart time to invest in >>>>>>> a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British >>> Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite
system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who >>> moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it >>> was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of >>> the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator >>> now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
Consequential questions I could probably just look up (but where would the >> fun be in that?): Do the operators of geostationary satellites have an
obligation to deorbit them when they?re life-expired? How much propellant >> would they need to retain to do that safely?
Without giving full answers to your questions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit#Retired_satellites
On 24/01/2026 13:17, Sam Wilson wrote:
My University specified 2.4 m as the maximum working height for a single
person working from a ladder, so all our WiFi access points were installed >> on walls at 2.4 m.
Was there a maximum working height for a single person working from
steps? Or a married basketball player ?
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in >>>>> pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double >>>>> heading with small locos.
ÿWhy don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
They do, even to replace an ONT, and more often in fours for the
FTTP install around me; with a cherry picker if they need the top of >>>the pole. A suprising amount of new connectors only about 8' from
the ground.
The bloke that fixed the wires to the houses at eaves level using a >>>ladder, by himself, was a contractor.
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
Because that allows them to do the work at lower cost than if
openreach send their own people.
They also have different ONTs.
In message <10l5h77$1k5tj$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:43:20 on Sun, 25 Jan
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in >>>>>> pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double >>>>>> heading with small locos.
ÿWhy don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
They do, even to replace an ONT, and more often in fours for the
FTTP install around me; with a cherry picker if they need the top of >>>> the pole. A suprising amount of new connectors only about 8' from
the ground.
The bloke that fixed the wires to the houses at eaves level using a
ladder, by himself, was a contractor.
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
Because that allows them to do the work at lower cost than if
openreach send their own people.
What I don't understand is why the contractors appear to have different "working at height" rules to employees.
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2026 13:17, Sam Wilson wrote:
My University specified 2.4 m as the maximum working height for a single >>> person working from a ladder, so all our WiFi access points were installed >>> on walls at 2.4 m.
Was there a maximum working height for a single person working from
steps? Or a married basketball player ?
[Serious] I think the concept of ?ladder? included free standing and step ladders.
[!Serious] I think all our techs at the time were married, and AFAIK none
of them played basketball.
Sam
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was
in a coma for about a year before he died.
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was
in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and
how hard.
About 25yrs ago I fell off a rather rickety loft-ladder and had to be
taken to hospital by ambulance with a gash on my skull. That episode is
one reason I try to get other people to go up ladders for me, now I'm an OAP.
On 25/01/2026 16:52, Sam Wilson wrote:
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2026 13:17, Sam Wilson wrote:
My University specified 2.4 m as the maximum working height for a single >>>> person working from a ladder, so all our WiFi access points were installed >>>> on walls at 2.4 m.
Was there a maximum working height for a single person working from
steps? Or a married basketball player ?
[Serious] I think the concept of ?ladder? included free standing and step
ladders.
[!Serious] I think all our techs at the time were married, and AFAIK none
of them played basketball.
Sam
Lots of different comments / views. I would suggest all read the actual official guidance at:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/ladders/index.htm
and
https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/myths.htm
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was
in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and
how hard.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was
in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and
how hard.
Two friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling
on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
Sam
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was
in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and
how hard.
Two friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling
on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a >rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
In message <10l7req$2i20k$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:50:18 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was
in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and >>> how hard.
Two friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling
on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a >> rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7req$2i20k$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:50:18 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan >>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was >>>>> in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and >>>> how hard.
Two friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling >>> on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a >>> rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
They will be round to fit handrails all over your house?..
Apparently 1 in 3 over 65s fall over each year.
On Sun, 25 Jan 2026 11:37:29 +0200, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 24/01/2026 15:11, Sam Wilson wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/01/2026 01:18, Marland wrote:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/01/2026 18:30, Clank wrote:
On 20/01/2026 14:18, ColinR wrote:
On 19/01/2026 21:20, Clank wrote:
[snip]
...which is all a bit of a confusing mess for the consumer, and the >>>>>>>>>> industry should probably be glad that nobody really cares any more >>>>>>>>>> because everyone is getting their TV over IP ;-).
Err, no. Not everyone has the bandwidth to allow IP TV.
Well, maybe not.? But you're not going to be getting it over satellite >>>>>>>> any more soon enough - the current trio of satellites serving UK >>>>>>>> broadcast TV will run out of propellant by the end of this decade, and >>>>>>>> no replacements have been launched or are planned AFAIK.
In other words - there is a reason Sky won't sell you a new Sky Q >>>>>>>> installation any more.? Now would not be a very smart time to invest in
a FreeSat box tbf...
And what use will that be if the satellites have run out of propellant? >>>>>>> I understand that FreeSat use the same ones as Sky.
???? , Did you miss the ?not?
GH
Oops, must go to Specsavers......
I get that feeling frequently.
It is the forecast demise of Satellite transponders aimed at the British >>>> Isles that means I am not really bothered to reactivate my satellite >>>> system, for a start I would have to retrieve the receiver from a friend who
moved into a property with a dish and no aerial and I have a feeling it >>>> was already too old to receive some channels.
ISTR the Astra satellites presently used were originally due to run out of
the thruster fuel that keeps them on station fairly soon but the operator >>>> now think it can be eked out a for little longer.
If Roland doesn?t get his dish fixed soon it may not be worth it.
Consequential questions I could probably just look up (but where would the >>> fun be in that?): Do the operators of geostationary satellites have an
obligation to deorbit them when they?re life-expired? How much propellant >>> would they need to retain to do that safely?
Yes, geostationary satellites all get moved to a so-called 'graveyard >>orbit' at end of life (it's not practical to deorbit them - LEO
satellites though will be deorbited and allowed to burn up.)
I'm not smart (or motivated ;-)) enough to calculate the propellant >>required to move a satellite another 300km farther from the
geostationary orbit (that being the typical graveyard location,) but I >>think the key point is that "let's just try and eke the propellant out >>until it stops working" isn't an option to keep the things going - there >>will need to be a defined point at which they say "enough is enough".
From what I've read, there can be a transitional stage when such a satellite can remain in geostationary orbit, in a
temporary role that doesn't require high precision. That reduces the propellant consumption. When there's just enough
left to raise it to the graveyard orbit, that's where it's sent.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7req$2i20k$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:50:18 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan >>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was >>>>> in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and >>>> how hard.
Two friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling >>> on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a >>> rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
They will be round to fit handrails all over your house?..
Apparently 1 in 3 over 65s fall over each year.
There is something to be said (within reason) for wearing at least aTwo friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling >>>> on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a
rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
bump cap and basic eye protection when doing any work involving more >complicated than boiling a kettle, driving a desk or simply walking
around.
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
--
On 26/01/2026 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
--
Don't be silly!
Someone will just do a Risk Assessment and require various protective measures when walking on flat ground. Obviously first a training course giving you a piece of people indicating that are qualified to walk on
flat ground.
Then require a whole range of PPE be worn with lots forms to complete
and file away.
I have a hard hat, which I wear when in the vicinity of men working at height at my house (if/when I can even find such men). It wouldn't give
any protection from tripping over.
--
On 26/01/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
I have a hard hat, which I wear when in the vicinity of men working at height at my house (if/when I can even find such men). It wouldn't give any protection from tripping over.
--
I have a bump hat and safety helmet in the back of the car, someone described once one of their colleagues controlling traffic on a single
track road - he put on a safety helmet to make himself look more official.
I once staying with some friends when there was a bad storm. Slates
were ripped off buildings and always seemed to embed themselves in the ground rather land flat on the ground.
By chance I had previously given their children a couple old safety
helmets to play with - they were the old metal ones that you often see
in films of American oil rigs.
I suggested the father of the house wear one, he was reluctant but I explained that if one the slates hit him on the head then he would be
lucky to survive so he wore it.
On 26/01/2026 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
--
Don't be silly!
Someone will just do a Risk Assessment and require various protective measures when walking on flat ground. Obviously first a training course giving you a piece of people indicating that are qualified to walk on
flat ground.
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 26/01/2026 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
--
Don't be silly!
Someone will just do a Risk Assessment and require various protective
measures when walking on flat ground. Obviously first a training course
giving you a piece of people indicating that are qualified to walk on
flat ground.
With these people brought in as consultants.
<https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/>
GH
On 26/01/2026 18:26, Roland Perry wrote:
I have a hard hat, which I wear when in the vicinity of men working at
height at my house (if/when I can even find such men). It wouldn't give
any protection from tripping over.
--
I have a bump hat and safety helmet in the back of the car, someone described once one of their colleagues controlling traffic on a single
track road - he put on a safety helmet to make himself look more official.
I once staying with some friends when there was a bad storm. Slates
were ripped off buildings and always seemed to embed themselves in the ground rather land flat on the ground.
In message <cb7fnkhif9bnc7db41o7kpnemlbp6qqdnp@4ax.com>, at 17:18:32 on
Mon, 26 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
There is something to be said (within reason) for wearing at least aTwo friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling >>>>> on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a
rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
bump cap and basic eye protection when doing any work involving more >>complicated than boiling a kettle, driving a desk or simply walking
around.
I have a hard hat, which I wear when in the vicinity of men working at >height at my house (if/when I can even find such men). It wouldn't give
any protection from tripping over.
In message <10l81ks$2kbdo$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:35:56 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7req$2i20k$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:50:18 on Mon, 26 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10l7afd$2c7li$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:00:27 on Mon, 26 Jan >>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
A friend of mine died after he fell off a step ladder, I think he was >>>>>> in a coma for about a year before he died.
I expect it depends a lot on whether you hit your head on something, and >>>>> how hard.
Two friends of mine have died, one within the last 6 weeks, after falling >>>> on essentially flat ground and fracturing their skulls. One tripped over a
rock on Staffa, the other fell down a step in her kitchen.
Not wishing to be insensitive, but some people might say "ban flat
ground". And I too fell on a single outdoor concrete step about six
months ago and very badly grazed my arm (I don't think I hit my head).
They will be round to fit handrails all over your house?..
I already have handrails where they are necessary. A friend I visited
last year had no handrails at all on the stairs, and that was a little >scary. (Why was I upstairs.. they don't have a downstairs loo. I do in
my house).
Apparently 1 in 3 over 65s fall over each year.
That's the gin :)
My fall on (or rather off) a concrete step was because the edge of it
wasn't marked in any way and I walked 'off the edge' so to speak.
In message <10l3220$10stl$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:12:16 on Sat, 24 Jan
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Broadband FTTP is typically fixed at the height of a house's eaves,
by one person. My Sky dish was lower than that, about halfway up
the upstairs bedroom window frames.
Our techs could have worked at higher levels if we?d sent them out in
pairs, but that would have been less efficient, like [ob.rail] double
heading with small locos.
Why don't Openreach send their people out in pairs?
My fall on (or rather off) a concrete step was because the edge of it >>wasn't marked in any way and I walked 'off the edge' so to speak.In the dark or were you stepping back to admire your work? Familiar
territory can get surprisingly unfamiliar in reduced light.
In message <ko2inkhqhtobgt7dkpbuvpk44vs0dshe1k@4ax.com>, at 19:02:23 on
Tue, 27 Jan 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
My fall on (or rather off) a concrete step was because the edge of it >>>wasn't marked in any way and I walked 'off the edge' so to speak.In the dark or were you stepping back to admire your work? Familiar >>territory can get surprisingly unfamiliar in reduced light.
If anything it was unusually bright daylight. I was walking down a
slope at a tourist attraction in Spain, and suddenly as well as the
slope there was an "invisible" extra step down.
In message <10kj8qv$3fo8m$4@dont-email.me>, at 18:29:51 on Sun, 18 Jan
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 16:14:43 +0000, Recliner wrote:
I've thought of a supplementary question: which station with frequent
25kV trains gets the most steam trains serving it or running through?
Crewe seems to get a lot of steam trains - I think there's water
facilities on platform 12 so they often stop there. There's a lot of lines >> run into Crewe so it's convenient for a lot of routes.
And it's not far from Carnforth, home of many of the locos.
Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 20:44:32 GMT, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10kj8qv$3fo8m$4@dont-email.me>, at 18:29:51 on Sun, 18 Jan >>>> 2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 16:14:43 +0000, Recliner wrote:
I've thought of a supplementary question: which station with frequent >>>>>> 25kV trains gets the most steam trains serving it or running through? >>>>>Crewe seems to get a lot of steam trains - I think there's water
facilities on platform 12 so they often stop there. There's a lot of >>>>> lines run into Crewe so it's convenient for a lot of routes.
And it's not far from Carnforth, home of many of the locos.
Actually, Carnforth is the station I had in mind, where many steam
charter trains start and end their journeys, in the adjacent WCR depot.
That's rather a stretch. While WCML electric trains do pass "through"
Carnforth in the sense of running through the station site, they don't and >> can't stop there, as the platforms are beyond the junction. The only way
an electric train could call at Carnforth would be to terminate in the one >> electrified platform and then return to Lancaster.
OK, fair point.
Another possibility could be Southall?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10kj8qv$3fo8m$4@dont-email.me>, at 18:29:51 on Sun, 18 Jan
2026, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 16:14:43 +0000, Recliner wrote:
I've thought of a supplementary question: which station with frequent
25kV trains gets the most steam trains serving it or running through?
Crewe seems to get a lot of steam trains - I think there's water
facilities on platform 12 so they often stop there. There's a lot of lines >>> run into Crewe so it's convenient for a lot of routes.
And it's not far from Carnforth, home of many of the locos.
"Not far" in this instance being 78 miles, or only slightly further than
(for example) Ely to Kings Cross.
Other similar ?not far? distances include Paddington to Swindon, Reading to >Bristol, or London to Brighton and halfway back again.
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