https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
The link above is being updated as further developments occur.
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from Euston.
No wonder the more extreme political parties are
gaining ground.
On 09/03/2026 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this
happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be
better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from Euston.
The news reports commented on the lack of replacement buses.
On 09/03/2026 09:26, Marland wrote:
No wonder the more extreme political parties are
gaining ground.
I thought Labour did badly in the recent by-election?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
On 08/03/2026 22:46, NY wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
This morning it is reported that there is no significant damage to the station itself, only fire damage to some nearby buildings. Trains are running through the low-level platforms, though without stopping.
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow. That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
In message <10ol2if$2rllj$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:00:15 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
The link above is being updated as further developments occur.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from
Euston.
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 08/03/2026 22:46, NY wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
This morning it is reported that there is no significant damage to the
station itself, only fire damage to some nearby buildings. Trains are
running through the low-level platforms, though without stopping.
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit
congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and
platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow. That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
There?s probably things that need to be checked. There?s a lot glass that faced the heat. They might need to get safety netting put in place.
The fire damaged building needs to be demolished, which probably means
people can?t be in the surroundings.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ol2if$2rllj$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:00:15 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the >>>>> line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
The link above is being updated as further developments occur.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this
happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be
better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from
Euston.
Whoopee. I?ll be on an LNER from Peterborough to Edinburgh this afternoon.
I?ll let you know whether we can find our reserved seats.
On 08/03/2026 22:46, NY wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
This morning it is reported that there is no significant damage to the station itself, only fire damage to some nearby buildings. Trains are running through the low-level platforms, though without stopping.
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow. That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ol2if$2rllj$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:00:15 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the >>>>>> line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
The link above is being updated as further developments occur.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this
happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be
better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from
Euston.
Whoopee. I?ll be on an LNER from Peterborough to Edinburgh this afternoon. >> I?ll let you know whether we can find our reserved seats.
It?s a pity Lumo isn?t yet running from Stirling. But would it be possible
to divert some Avanti trains there?
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ol2if$2rllj$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:00:15 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the >>>>>> line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
The link above is being updated as further developments occur.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this
happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be
better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from
Euston.
Whoopee. I?ll be on an LNER from Peterborough to Edinburgh this afternoon. >> I?ll let you know whether we can find our reserved seats.
It?s a pity Lumo isn?t yet running from Stirling. But would it be possible
to divert some Avanti trains there?
Last time this happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed >>loaded. Might be better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to >>Edinburgh from Euston.
Whoopee. I?ll be on an LNER from Peterborough to Edinburgh this afternoon.
I?ll let you know whether we can find our reserved seats.
Looking at RTT,s trains through PBO are all running to time, so that
suggests there isn?t disruptive overdcrowding at the moment.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ol2if$2rllj$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:00:15 on Mon, 9 Mar >>>> 2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the >>>>>>> line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
The link above is being updated as further developments occur.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel, >>>> and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this >>>> happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be >>>> better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from
Euston.
Whoopee. I?ll be on an LNER from Peterborough to Edinburgh this afternoon. >>> I?ll let you know whether we can find our reserved seats.
It?s a pity Lumo isn?t yet running from Stirling. But would it be possible >> to divert some Avanti trains there?
There?s an hourly Avanti Euston to Motherwell service. I think Avanti have two sets trapped in Glasgow Central.
In message <10ome69$3ah53$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:24:41 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Looking at RTT,s trains through PBO are all running to time, so that >suggests there isn?t disruptive overdcrowding at the moment.
I'm not surprised the trains are running on time, but they may
well have double the usual number of PAX on board. Every aisle
and vestibule rammed.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <10ome69$3ah53$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:24:41 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Looking at RTT,s trains through PBO are all running to time, so that
suggests there isn?t disruptive overdcrowding at the moment.
I'm not surprised the trains are running on time, but they may
well have double the usual number of PAX on board. Every aisle
and vestibule rammed.
But it may take more time for such trains to
have passengers alight and board in intermediate
stations.
There?s an hourly Avanti Euston to Motherwell service. I think Avanti have >> two sets trapped in Glasgow Central.
Presumably they can be extracted (towed if the power is shut off) ECS?
Looking at RTT,s trains through PBO are all running to time, so that
suggests there isn?t disruptive overdcrowding at the moment.
I'm not surprised the trains are running on time, but they may
well have double the usual number of PAX on board. Every aisle
and vestibule rammed.
But it may take more time for such trains to
have passengers alight and board in intermediate
stations.
Exactly.
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow.ÿ That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings. Some might have got into the station.
But it may take more time for such trains to
have passengers alight and board in intermediate
stations.
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings. >> Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest! :-)
On 09/03/2026 12:54, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
But it may take more time for such trains to
have passengers alight and board in intermediate
stations.
I always said when stuck behind hundreds of tourist getting on and off ferries that they should containerise the passengers.
In message <10omdnj$3a800$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:16:51 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Last time this happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed
loaded. Might be better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to
Edinburgh from Euston.
Whoopee. I?ll be on an LNER from Peterborough to Edinburgh this afternoon. >> I?ll let you know whether we can find our reserved seats.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. But when this happened to me last year, diverted Avanti PAX squatted in reserved LNER seats and refused to budge.
In message <10omhed$3blr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:20:13 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Looking at RTT,s trains through PBO are all running to time, so that >>>>> suggests there isn?t disruptive overdcrowding at the moment.
I'm not surprised the trains are running on time, but they may
well have double the usual number of PAX on board. Every aisle
and vestibule rammed.
But it may take more time for such trains to
have passengers alight and board in intermediate
stations.
Exactly.
Wasn't much of a problem last time. The trains over-filled-up at Kings Cross, and at Peterborough it was almost impossible for any more PAX to board, so it didn't take very long.
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings. >>> Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest! :-)
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow.ÿ That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
On 09/03/2026 11:59, Clive Page wrote:
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit
congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and
platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow.ÿ That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
The fire damaged building is right next to the main entrance, and then
goes round the corner, so runs alongside the left hand side of platform
1 /the concourse for around 50 metres. It was 4 or 5 storeys high, and
there are still some bits standing, so a significant risk to anyone
below due to the collapse risk, which is very likely, being as 3/4 of
the building has already collapsed.
The main entrance will not be safe to use,the entrance on Union Street
will be shut for probably weeks, as that was next to the demolished building, so that only leaves the small entrance next to the hotel, and
one further down Hope Street, the other side of the station from the
fire. Now these entrances are minor, small entrances, so account has to
be made as to whether these entries/exits would be suitable as the main entry/egress, of which I doubt they would be suitable, especially in
event of any other 'event' happening which requires rapid evacuation.
That covers the existing entrances with regard to the fire damaged hulk,
now account has to be taken to evaluate if there is any heat or smoke
damage to the Station building. Initial visual inspection says that
nothing is majorly affected, though the glass roof panels need to be inspected for heat and falling masonry damage. But, from the radio today
at 6pm, no in-depth inspections can be carried out yet due to the fire building being unsafe, with a chance of it falling toward the station roof/walls. Yes, NR people have been allowed into the concourse to have
a quick look.
To sum up, the fire damaged building needs to be demolished to a safe height, though looking at the pics, that will mean all of it flattened.
then NR can inspect the Station building for damage.
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a planned slow introduction of service could restart.
Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 11:59, Clive Page wrote:
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit
congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and >>> platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow.ÿ That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
The fire damaged building is right next to the main entrance, and then
goes round the corner, so runs alongside the left hand side of platform
1 /the concourse for around 50 metres. It was 4 or 5 storeys high, and
there are still some bits standing, so a significant risk to anyone
below due to the collapse risk, which is very likely, being as 3/4 of
the building has already collapsed.
The main entrance will not be safe to use,the entrance on Union Street
will be shut for probably weeks, as that was next to the demolished
building, so that only leaves the small entrance next to the hotel, and
one further down Hope Street, the other side of the station from the
fire. Now these entrances are minor, small entrances, so account has to
be made as to whether these entries/exits would be suitable as the main
entry/egress, of which I doubt they would be suitable, especially in
event of any other 'event' happening which requires rapid evacuation.
That covers the existing entrances with regard to the fire damaged hulk,
now account has to be taken to evaluate if there is any heat or smoke
damage to the Station building. Initial visual inspection says that
nothing is majorly affected, though the glass roof panels need to be
inspected for heat and falling masonry damage. But, from the radio today
at 6pm, no in-depth inspections can be carried out yet due to the fire
building being unsafe, with a chance of it falling toward the station
roof/walls. Yes, NR people have been allowed into the concourse to have
a quick look.
To sum up, the fire damaged building needs to be demolished to a safe
height, though looking at the pics, that will mean all of it flattened.
then NR can inspect the Station building for damage.
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow
people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good
barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a
planned slow introduction of service could restart.
Looking at the press photos that seems a fair summary. AFAICT only the
bare north wall of the Union Corner building is still standing, the rest of the building now being a pile of charred and smoking rubble, largely inside the original footprint.
Sam
On 09/03/2026 11:59, Clive Page wrote:
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit
congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline
and platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station
will not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow.ÿ That seems to me
to be an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
The fire damaged building is right next to the main entrance, and then
goes round the corner, so runs alongside the left hand side of platform
1 /the concourse for around 50 metres. It was 4 or 5 storeys high, and
there are still some bits standing, so a significant risk to anyone
below due to the collapse risk, which is very likely, being as 3/4 of
the building has already collapsed.
The main entrance will not be safe to use,the entrance on Union Street
will be shut for probably weeks, as that was next to the demolished building, so that only leaves the small entrance next to the hotel, and
one further down Hope Street, the other side of the station from the
fire. Now these entrances are minor, small entrances, so account has to
be made as to whether these entries/exits would be suitable as the main entry/egress, of which I doubt they would be suitable, especially in
event of any other 'event' happening which requires rapid evacuation.
That covers the existing entrances with regard to the fire damaged hulk,
now account has to be taken to evaluate if there is any heat or smoke
damage to the Station building. Initial visual inspection says that
nothing is majorly affected, though the glass roof panels need to be inspected for heat and falling masonry damage. But, from the radio today
at 6pm, no in-depth inspections can be carried out yet due to the fire building being unsafe, with a chance of it falling toward the station roof/walls. Yes, NR people have been allowed into the concourse to have
a quick look.
To sum up, the fire damaged building needs to be demolished to a safe height, though looking at the pics, that will mean all of it flattened.
then NR can inspect the Station building for damage.
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a planned slow introduction of service could restart.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded. Might be
better if Avanti ran more of their trains through to Edinburgh from
Euston.
On 09/03/2026 18:54, Alan Lee wrote:
On 09/03/2026 11:59, Clive Page wrote:
The fire damaged building is right next to the main entrance, and then
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit
congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline
and platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station
will not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow.ÿ That seems to me
to be an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers. >>
goes round the corner, so runs alongside the left hand side of platform
1 /the concourse for around 50 metres. It was 4 or 5 storeys high, and
there are still some bits standing, so a significant risk to anyone
below due to the collapse risk, which is very likely, being as 3/4 of
the building has already collapsed.
The main entrance will not be safe to use,the entrance on Union Street
will be shut for probably weeks, as that was next to the demolished
building, so that only leaves the small entrance next to the hotel, and
one further down Hope Street, the other side of the station from the
fire. Now these entrances are minor, small entrances, so account has to
be made as to whether these entries/exits would be suitable as the main
entry/egress, of which I doubt they would be suitable, especially in
event of any other 'event' happening which requires rapid evacuation.
That covers the existing entrances with regard to the fire damaged hulk,
now account has to be taken to evaluate if there is any heat or smoke
damage to the Station building. Initial visual inspection says that
nothing is majorly affected, though the glass roof panels need to be
inspected for heat and falling masonry damage. But, from the radio today
at 6pm, no in-depth inspections can be carried out yet due to the fire
building being unsafe, with a chance of it falling toward the station
roof/walls. Yes, NR people have been allowed into the concourse to have
a quick look.
To sum up, the fire damaged building needs to be demolished to a safe
height, though looking at the pics, that will mean all of it flattened.
then NR can inspect the Station building for damage.
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow
people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good
barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a
planned slow introduction of service could restart.
Thanks for the information. It is obviously a difficult situation.
In message <uizrR.188$_k2e.169@fx08.ams1>, at 12:46:18 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
There?s an hourly Avanti Euston to Motherwell service. I think Avanti have >>> two sets trapped in Glasgow Central.
Presumably they can be extracted (towed if the power is shut off) ECS?
Lunchtime news says no-one (not even Network Rail safety inspectors)
allowed in the building yet.
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 13:34:41 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <uizrR.188$_k2e.169@fx08.ams1>, at 12:46:18 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
There?s an hourly Avanti Euston to Motherwell service. I think Avanti have >>>> two sets trapped in Glasgow Central.
Presumably they can be extracted (towed if the power is shut off) ECS?
Lunchtime news says no-one (not even Network Rail safety inspectors) >>allowed in the building yet.
Surely they should have moved them to safety as soon as the fire
became serious?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather
than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt water.
On 09/03/2026 11:59, Clive Page wrote:
I can understand that today the area around the station may be a bit congested with fire-brigade hoses etc. making access to the gateline and platforms difficult, but the latest statement is that the station will
not reopen at any time today or even tomorrow.ÿ That seems to me to be
an excess of caution, totally ignoring the interests of passengers.
The fire damaged building is right next to the main entrance, and then
goes round the corner, so runs alongside the left hand side of platform
1 /the concourse for around 50 metres. It was 4 or 5 storeys high, and
there are still some bits standing, so a significant risk to anyone
below due to the collapse risk, which is very likely, being as 3/4 of
the building has already collapsed.
The main entrance will not be safe to use,the entrance on Union Street
will be shut for probably weeks, as that was next to the demolished building, so that only leaves the small entrance next to the hotel, and
one further down Hope Street, the other side of the station from the
fire. Now these entrances are minor, small entrances, so account has to
be made as to whether these entries/exits would be suitable as the main entry/egress, of which I doubt they would be suitable, especially in
event of any other 'event' happening which requires rapid evacuation.
That covers the existing entrances with regard to the fire damaged hulk,
now account has to be taken to evaluate if there is any heat or smoke
damage to the Station building. Initial visual inspection says that
nothing is majorly affected, though the glass roof panels need to be inspected for heat and falling masonry damage. But, from the radio today
at 6pm, no in-depth inspections can be carried out yet due to the fire building being unsafe, with a chance of it falling toward the station roof/walls. Yes, NR people have been allowed into the concourse to have
a quick look.
To sum up, the fire damaged building needs to be demolished to a safe height, though looking at the pics, that will mean all of it flattened.
then NR can inspect the Station building for damage.
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a planned slow introduction of service could restart.
From The Herald:
The leading architect behind the refurbishment of Glasgow Central Station >more than 25 years ago has warned its roof will have to be rebuilt.
Alan Dunlop told The Herald that the iconic glass structure is fragile and >will have been damaged by the blaze which broke out in a nearby building in >Union Street yesterday afternoon.
"It looks as though the damage has significantly affected the roof of
Central Station. I don't know how it would not have.
"The restoration of the station was one of my architectural projects... I >can't imagine how the roof of Central Station which is glass won't be >significantly affected by the damage caused by the fire," he said.
"I am absolutely positive it will be. It is a completely glass roof and
there was such an inferno there I can't imagine how the glass won't be >affected."
Mr Dunlop was involved in the refurbishment of the station more than 25
years ago, including work to the roof, the station frontage and to the >Hielanman's Umbrella, the Glaswegian nickname for the glass walled railway >bridge which carries the platforms of Glasgow Central station across Argyle >Street.
Asked how much and how long it would take to rebuild the roof, he said it >would be tens of millions of pounds.
"It will depend on whether the steel works which supports the glass is >affected," he added.
"A survey will have to be done for that but I can't see how the glass would >remain in tact as it was quite fragile.
"I can't believe Central Station won't be without damage particularly to
the roof. I believe that consequently the station will be closed for a long >time.
"It will have to be closed entirely or have managed access to the trains >while the roof is finished."
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 19:50:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
From The Herald:
The leading architect behind the refurbishment of Glasgow Central Station >more than 25 years ago has warned its roof will have to be rebuilt.
Alan Dunlop told The Herald that the iconic glass structure is fragile and >will have been damaged by the blaze which broke out in a nearby building in >Union Street yesterday afternoon.
"It looks as though the damage has significantly affected the roof of >Central Station. I don't know how it would not have.
"The restoration of the station was one of my architectural projects... I >can't imagine how the roof of Central Station which is glass won't be >significantly affected by the damage caused by the fire," he said.
"I am absolutely positive it will be. It is a completely glass roof and >there was such an inferno there I can't imagine how the glass won't be >affected."
Mr Dunlop was involved in the refurbishment of the station more than 25 >years ago, including work to the roof, the station frontage and to the >Hielanman's Umbrella, the Glaswegian nickname for the glass walled railway >bridge which carries the platforms of Glasgow Central station across Argyle >Street.
Asked how much and how long it would take to rebuild the roof, he said it >would be tens of millions of pounds.
"It will depend on whether the steel works which supports the glass is >affected," he added.
"A survey will have to be done for that but I can't see how the glass would >remain in tact as it was quite fragile.
"I can't believe Central Station won't be without damage particularly to >the roof. I believe that consequently the station will be closed for a long >time.
"It will have to be closed entirely or have managed access to the trains >while the roof is finished."
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where >> there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather
than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt
water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where >>> there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather
than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 13:34:41 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <uizrR.188$_k2e.169@fx08.ams1>, at 12:46:18 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
There?s an hourly Avanti Euston to Motherwell service. I think Avanti have >>>> two sets trapped in Glasgow Central.
Presumably they can be extracted (towed if the power is shut off) ECS?
Lunchtime news says no-one (not even Network Rail safety inspectors) >>allowed in the building yet.
Surely they should have moved them to safety as soon as the fire
became serious?
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings. >> Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest! :-)
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where >>> there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather
than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 19:52:11 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 13:34:41 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>Is was serious before it became a risk to the adjacent station. The
wrote:
In message <uizrR.188$_k2e.169@fx08.ams1>, at 12:46:18 on Mon, 9 Mar >>>2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
There?s an hourly Avanti Euston to Motherwell service. I think Avanti have
two sets trapped in Glasgow Central.
Presumably they can be extracted (towed if the power is shut off) ECS?
Lunchtime news says no-one (not even Network Rail safety inspectors) >>>allowed in the building yet.
Surely they should have moved them to safety as soon as the fire
became serious?
initial consideration was probably the smoke with resulting evacuation
that then left things as they sat.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh >> water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know >> how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between >> there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with >> the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where >>> there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather
than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with the tide but the water is still fresh.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh >>> water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know >>> how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between >>> there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with >>> the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sounds like a thoroughly dodgy setup!
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh >>>> water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know
how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between >>>> there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with >>>> the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sounds like a thoroughly dodgy setup!
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside them.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh >>>> water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know
how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between >>>> there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with >>>> the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sounds like a thoroughly dodgy setup!
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside them.
On 11/03/2026 02:38, Marland wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as >>>>>>> Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>>>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt
water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh
water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know
how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between
there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with
the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sounds like a thoroughly dodgy setup!
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations
going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >> often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >> them.
Because God knows no native-born Brit - oh my, I can feel my chest
swelling with pride and Greesleeves wafting over the horizon just saying those words - no native born BRITISH PATRIOT GAWD LUV 'EM ALL AND GAWD
LOVE THE QUEEN GAWD REST HER SOU.... I'm so sorry, I don't know what
came over me; no native born PROUD SON OF THE BRITISH ISLES WITH SKIN
WHITE AS PURE SNOW... Ahem, sorry.
Nobody born there ever committed a crime, am I right?
Knuckle-dragging fucking cretin...
On 11/03/2026 02:38, Marland wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as >>>>>> Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather
than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt
water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh
water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know
how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between
there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with
the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sounds like a thoroughly dodgy setup!
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside them.
Because God knows no native-born Brit - oh my, I can feel my chest
swelling with pride and Greesleeves wafting over the horizon just saying those words - no native born BRITISH PATRIOT GAWD LUV 'EM ALL AND GAWD
LOVE THE QUEEN GAWD REST HER SOU.... I'm so sorry, I don't know what
came over me; no native born PROUD SON OF THE BRITISH ISLES WITH SKIN
WHITE AS PURE SNOW... Ahem, sorry.
Nobody born there ever committed a crime, am I right?
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh >> water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know >> how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between >> there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with >> the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.sepa.org.uk/media/218938/ice-buoy-factsheet.pdf
Seems it?s fresh water near the surface and marine water lower down.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local >>>>>>>buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir
and fresh water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.?
But I don?t know how salty it is on the western side - there?s a
lot of river still between there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal >>rivers where the level rises with the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-no >t-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh >> water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know >> how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between >> there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with >> the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >them.
On 11/03/2026 02:38, Marland wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as >>>>>>> Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>>>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt
water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh
water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know
how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between
there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with
the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sounds like a thoroughly dodgy setup!
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations
going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >> often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >> them.
Because God knows no native-born Brit - oh my, I can feel my chest
swelling with pride and Greesleeves wafting over the horizon just saying those words - no native born BRITISH PATRIOT GAWD LUV 'EM ALL AND GAWD
LOVE THE QUEEN GAWD REST HER SOU.... I'm so sorry, I don't know what
came over me; no native born PROUD SON OF THE BRITISH ISLES WITH SKIN
WHITE AS PURE SNOW... Ahem, sorry.
Nobody born there ever committed a crime, am I right?
Knuckle-dragging fucking cretin...
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:Interestingly, if you try to find pictures of David Jason or Nicholas Lyndhurst in their most popular roles, you can't - there's just a grey
On 11/03/2026 02:38, Marland wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as >>>>>>>> Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather
than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt
water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir and fresh
water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.? But I don?t know
how salty it is on the western side - there?s a lot of river still between
there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal rivers where the level rises with
the tide but the water is still fresh.
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-not-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
Sounds like a thoroughly dodgy setup!
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>> going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >>> often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >>> them.
Because God knows no native-born Brit - oh my, I can feel my chest
swelling with pride and Greesleeves wafting over the horizon just saying
those words - no native born BRITISH PATRIOT GAWD LUV 'EM ALL AND GAWD
LOVE THE QUEEN GAWD REST HER SOU.... I'm so sorry, I don't know what
came over me; no native born PROUD SON OF THE BRITISH ISLES WITH SKIN
WHITE AS PURE SNOW... Ahem, sorry.
Nobody born there ever committed a crime, am I right?
Knuckle-dragging fucking cretin...
You don?t live here anymore, so you are unlikely to have witnessed the
fairly rapid incursion of these business that have spring up in places some barely larger than villages all over the country
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
Interestingly, if you try to find pictures of David Jason or Nicholas Lyndhurst in their most popular roles, you can't - there's just a grey
mist where they used to be, as they slowly disappear
Some might find this interesting
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >>often staffed by so called asylum seekers.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >>them.
insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also,
would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the
remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage
so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
On 10/03/2026 20:01, Tweed wrote:
Some might find this interesting
There was a comment on Y&Y just now about many premises having been
empty for a long time which made me wonder if the owners of the
building might be so desperate to get them occupied that they have not
been making proper checks.
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:
Interestingly, if you try to find pictures of David Jason or Nicholas
Lyndhurst in their most popular roles, you can't - there's just a grey
mist where they used to be, as they slowly disappear
Don't you think they might be copyrighted,
and illegal copies weren't that popular?
?)
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having worked on a project 25yrs ago.
I'll wait for today's structural engineers to take a look.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the station, including the roof.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having
worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the station, including the roof.
I'll wait for today's structural engineers to take a look.
It?ll take more than a day to inspect the potentially damaged parts of the large building.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having
worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the >station, including the roof.
I'll wait for today's structural engineers to take a look.
It?ll take more than a day to inspect the potentially damaged parts of the >large building.
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the >>newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the >>station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him >looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the >>>newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the >>>station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him >>looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>>going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >>>often staffed by so called asylum seekers.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >>>them.
insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also,
would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage
so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not
the tenants.
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, at 14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>>>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the >>>>newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the >>>>station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him >>>looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have.
On 11/03/2026 13:42, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment
of the
station, including the roof.
I'll wait for today's structural engineers to take a look.
It?ll take more than a day to inspect the potentially damaged parts of
the
large building.
I see the low-level station has reopened: <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gex41ww0lo>
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the >>> station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>>>going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >>>>often staffed by so called asylum seekers.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >>>>them.
insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also,
would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage
so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not
the tenants.
This suggests otherwise: >https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, at 14:48:57 on >>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>>>>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the >>>>>newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the
station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him >>>>looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have.
Ah, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
Obviously he's not nearly as eminent authority as you are, but this is
his humble bio:
On 11/03/2026 14:25, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/03/2026 13:42, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I see the low-level station has reopened:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment
of the
station, including the roof.
I'll wait for today's structural engineers to take a look.
It?ll take more than a day to inspect the potentially damaged
parts of the
large building.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gex41ww0lo>
I was surprised when they closed the low level as there is easy access
from there to Hope Street* totally avoiding the main station and on the >opposite side from the fire. If it was safe enough to continue to
operate trains why not limit access to the safe entrance?
*Used that entrance almost every work day for a few years.
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>>>>going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe andDoes buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
often staffed by so called asylum seekers.
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside
them.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>the tenants.
This suggests otherwise: >>https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >>09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >>and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small
unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, at 14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>>>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having
worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the >>>>>> newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the
station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him >>>>> looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have.
Ah, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to
include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few
years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called
at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in
the news today.
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 17:04:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on >>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>>wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these >>>>>>operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs >>>>>>from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers. >>>>>>Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside them.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>>insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>>would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>>so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>>the tenants.
This suggests otherwise: >>>https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >>>09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >>>and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small >>unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
Can you back up that assertion, given that the document states: 'In
Scotland, a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI lease) is the
standard format for commercial leases'?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, at 14:48:57 on >>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>>>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>>>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>is having worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last >>>>>>>refurbishment of the station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him >>>>>> looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have.
Ah, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to
include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by
hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in
researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few
years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified
than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of
effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called
at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in
the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not the >case here.
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the >>>>>>> locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is having >>>>> worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment of the
station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him >>> looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
Projection...
In message <10os3og$183q2$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:03:25 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 11/03/2026 14:25, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/03/2026 13:42, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:ÿI see the low-level station has reopened:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited >>>>>>> the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is
having
worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last refurbishment
of the
station, including the roof.
I'll wait for today's structural engineers to take a look.
It?ll take more than a day to inspect the potentially damaged parts
ofÿ the
large building.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gex41ww0lo>
I was surprised when they closed the low level as there is easy access
from there to Hope Street* totally avoiding the main station and on
the opposite side from the fire. If it was safe enough to continue to
operate trains why not limit access to the safe entrance?
*Used that entrance almost every work day for a few years.
Perhaps there's lots of water from the fire engines pumping 24hrs a day
out of the Clyde, that makes the underground parts of the station unsafe
for pax on foot.
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, atAh, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to
14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>> is havingÿ worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by >>>>>>>> ÿnewspaper as he was the leading architect for the last
refurbishment of theÿ station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>
include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by
hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in
researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few
years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified >>> than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of >>> effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called >>> at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in
the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not
the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think
aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this
architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they
just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be
an expert in.
On 11/03/2026 19:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on >>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, atAh, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >>>>> include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>>> is havingÿ worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by >>>>>>>>> ÿnewspaper as he was the leading architect for the last
refurbishment of theÿ station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>>
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by
hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in
researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few
years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified >>>> than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of >>>> effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called >>>> at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in
the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not
the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think
aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this
architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they
just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be
an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier
that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media reference I can find points to the Herald.
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/03/2026 19:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on >>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>> wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, atAh, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >>>>>> include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>>>> is havingÿ worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by >>>>>>>>>> ÿnewspaper as he was the leading architect for the last
refurbishment of theÿ station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>>>
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by
hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in >>>>> researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few
years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified >>>>> than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of >>>>> effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called >>>>> at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in >>>>> the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not >>>> the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think
aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this
architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they
just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be
an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier
that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media
reference I can find points to the Herald.
It?s a pejorative social media nickname for mainstream (ie professional) media. It?s used by people who think that Facebook, TikTok, X and Truth Social are more to their taste, and that the truth is ?fake news?.
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, at 14:48:57 on >>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:Ah, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>> is having worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior? He was interviewed by >>>>>>>> newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last
refurbishment of the station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>
include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by
hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in
researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few
years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified >>> than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of >>> effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called >>> at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in
the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not the >> case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
On 11/03/2026 17:11, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10os3og$183q2$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:03:25 on Wed, 11
Mar 2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
On 11/03/2026 14:25, Graeme Wall wrote:Perhaps there's lots of water from the fire engines pumping 24hrs a
On 11/03/2026 13:42, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:ÿI see the low-level station has reopened:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait for the >>>>>>>> structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof better >>>>>>> than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might find it >>>>>>> worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification is >>>>>>having
worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by the
newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last >>>>>refurbishment of the
station, including the roof.
I'll wait for today's structural engineers to take a look.
It?ll take more than a day to inspect the potentially damaged
parts ofÿ the
large building.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gex41ww0lo>
I was surprised when they closed the low level as there is easy
access from there to Hope Street* totally avoiding the main station
and on the opposite side from the fire. If it was safe enough to >>>continue to operate trains why not limit access to the safe entrance?
*Used that entrance almost every work day for a few years.
day out of the Clyde, that makes the underground parts of the station >>unsafe for pax on foot.
Suspect not as if there was sufficient water to reach platform height
then the trains would not have running. All passages are platform
height or up towards street level.
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/03/2026 19:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on >>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>> wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, atAh, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >>>>>> include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>>>> is havingÿ worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by >>>>>>>>>> ÿnewspaper as he was the leading architect for the last
refurbishment of theÿ station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>>>
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by
hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in >>>>> researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few
years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified >>>>> than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of >>>>> effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called >>>>> at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in >>>>> the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not >>>> the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think
aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this
architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they
just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be
an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier
that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media
reference I can find points to the Herald.
It?s a pejorative social media nickname for mainstream (ie professional) >media. It?s used by people who think that Facebook, TikTok, X and Truth >Social are more to their taste, and that the truth is ?fake news?.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
Aha, that?s Rolandspeak that translates as: "I, Roland have been proved
wrong, yet again".
In message <aimsR.197$_k2e.150@fx08.ams1>, at 22:47:34 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
Aha, that?s Rolandspeak that translates as: "I, Roland have been proved >wrong, yet again".
No, it means I have explained several times why you are wrong, but you >aren't listening, continue to make a fool of yourself about something
you have no idea about, and I have better things to do than waste any
more time on the subject.
In message <VYlsR.40$X61.0@fx16.ams1>, at 22:24:53 on Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/03/2026 19:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on >>>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>> wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, atAh, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >>>>>>> include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>>>>> is havingÿ worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by >>>>>>>>>>> ÿnewspaper as he was the leading architect for the last
refurbishment of theÿ station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>>>>
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by
hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in >>>>>> researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few >>>>>> years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified >>>>>> than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of >>>>>> effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called >>>>>> at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in >>>>>> the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not >>>>> the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think
aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this
architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they >>>> just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be >>>> an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier
that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media
reference I can find points to the Herald.
It?s a pejorative social media nickname for mainstream (ie professional)
media. It?s used by people who think that Facebook, TikTok, X and Truth
Social are more to their taste, and that the truth is ?fake news?.
It stands for Main Stream Media, and isn't pejorative at all. It distinguishes traditional news outlets like TV and newspapers from alternative/social media.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <VYlsR.40$X61.0@fx16.ams1>, at 22:24:53 on Wed, 11 Mar 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/03/2026 19:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on >>>>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, atAh, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >>>>>>>> include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>>>>>> is havingÿ worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by >>>>>>>>>>>> ÿnewspaper as he was the leading architect for the last >>>>>>>>>>>> refurbishment of theÿ station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>>>>>
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by >>>>>>> hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in >>>>>>> researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few >>>>>>> years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified
than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of
effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called
at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in >>>>>>> the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. >>>>>>That?s not
the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think >>>>> aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this
architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they >>>>> just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be >>>>> an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier >>>> that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media
reference I can find points to the Herald.
It?s a pejorative social media nickname for mainstream (ie professional) >>> media. It?s used by people who think that Facebook, TikTok, X and Truth
Social are more to their taste, and that the truth is ?fake news?.
It stands for Main Stream Media, and isn't pejorative at all. It
distinguishes traditional news outlets like TV and newspapers from
alternative/social media.
Of course it?s pejorative. The term is only used by people like you who >prefer other, less reliable, information sources.
Simply using the term indicates your dislike of the professional media,
perhaps because they expect you to pay for quality, and you can?t.
On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 06:34:26 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <aimsR.197$_k2e.150@fx08.ams1>, at 22:47:34 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
Aha, that?s Rolandspeak that translates as: "I, Roland have been proved
wrong, yet again".
No, it means I have explained several times why you are wrong, but you >>aren't listening, continue to make a fool of yourself about something
you have no idea about, and I have better things to do than waste any
more time on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpQlyUjp3vM
No, I like the professional media, it's "anonymous bloggers" that I
think do a poor job.
In message <10optb7$hpjo$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:01:43 on Tue, 10 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:Some might find this interesting
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:45:13 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 09/03/2026 12:17, Recliner wrote:
And large amounts of water will have been hosed at all the local >>>>>>>> buildings.
Some might have got into the station.
Water pumped from the Clyde, so not the cleanest!
At least it's fresh, rather than salty.
The Clyde is tidal up past Central, certainly as far as Glasgow Green where
there?s a partial barrage, and according to the OS map as far as
Dalmarnock. It?s possible that the water at Central is brackish rather >>>>> than entirely fresh, though it is still quite a long way from truly salt >>>>> water.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Green#Tidal_Weir
Indeed. ?The water is saltwater on the western side of the weir
and fresh water on the eastern side, where it runs past the park.?
But I don?t know how salty it is on the western side - there?s a
lot of river still between there and the sea and I?ve been on tidal
rivers where the level rises with the tide but the water is still fresh. >>>
Sam
https://www.theferret.scot/revealed-company-behind-vape-shop-fire-had-no
t-paying-business-rates-or-registered-to-sell-vapes/
There's a considerable churn in these sorts of pop-up shop, and the timescales quoted there aren't at all unusual.
A friend took over a retail premises near where I live, and it turned
out the previous occupants hadn't paid anything to anyone for three
years. First task was to get the gas/electricity reconnected!
But because the landlord had evicted and locked out the previous tenants (which seems to take about a year through the courts), my friend "won" a considerable amount of the contents of the place when he moved in.
Failing to pay rents/rates, and flouting planning rules (including of
course change-of-use), is commonplace. Takes about two years for
councils to succeed in taking enforcement action. Quite a few pubs are
now going through this cycle, and one I know (where I have no evidence
of wrong-doing) has its third or fourth set of hopefuls running it since COVID.
In Glasgow it's ironic that one the businesses which has been burnt down
is a fish-and-chip shop, which are often the *cause* of fires. A burger
bar caused part of Waterloo Station in London to be burnt out in 1998.
And then another at Liverpool St in 2012.
In message <po05rk18ujr5h33u1nc4uq61135f4tagg7@4ax.com>, at 09:11:02 on
Thu, 12 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 06:34:26 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <aimsR.197$_k2e.150@fx08.ams1>, at 22:47:34 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
Aha, that?s Rolandspeak that translates as: "I, Roland have been proved >>> >wrong, yet again".
No, it means I have explained several times why you are wrong, but you
aren't listening, continue to make a fool of yourself about something
you have no idea about, and I have better things to do than waste any
more time on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpQlyUjp3vM
In Glasgow it's ironic that one the businesses which has been burnt down
is a fish-and-chip shop, which are often the *cause* of fires. A burger
bar caused part of Waterloo Station in London to be burnt out in 1998.
And then another at Liverpool St in 2012.
And it was a very well known (I won?t say high quality - I only ate their >product once and it was so-so) chip shop. Being right next to the station >entrance it had very high passing trade from people getting on or off
trains.
On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 11:16:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
It featured on 'Inside Central Station'.
In Glasgow it's ironic that one the businesses which has been burnt down >>> is a fish-and-chip shop, which are often the *cause* of fires. A burger
bar caused part of Waterloo Station in London to be burnt out in 1998.
And then another at Liverpool St in 2012.
And it was a very well known (I won?t say high quality - I only ate their
product once and it was so-so) chip shop. Being right next to the station >> entrance it had very high passing trade from people getting on or off
trains.
On 12/03/2026 12:18, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 11:16:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
It featured on 'Inside Central Station'.
In Glasgow it's ironic that one the businesses which has been burnt
down
is a fish-and-chip shop, which are often the *cause* of fires. A burger >>>> bar caused part of Waterloo Station in London to be burnt out in 1998. >>>> And then another at Liverpool St in 2012.
And it was a very well known (I won?t say high quality - I only ate
their
product once and it was so-so) chip shop.ÿ Being right next to the
station
entrance it had very high passing trade from people getting on or off
trains.
Even though it is outside Central Station?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <VYlsR.40$X61.0@fx16.ams1>, at 22:24:53 on Wed, 11 Mar 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/03/2026 19:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on >>>>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, atAh, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >>>>>>>> include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence.
14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>>>>>> is havingÿ worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?ÿ He was interviewed by >>>>>>>>>>>> ÿnewspaper as he was the leading architect for the last >>>>>>>>>>>> refurbishment of theÿ station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have. >>>>>>>>
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by >>>>>>> hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in >>>>>>> researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few >>>>>>> years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified
than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of
effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called
at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in >>>>>>> the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not >>>>>> the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think >>>>> aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this
architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they >>>>> just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be >>>>> an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier >>>> that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media
reference I can find points to the Herald.
It?s a pejorative social media nickname for mainstream (ie professional) >>> media. It?s used by people who think that Facebook, TikTok, X and Truth
Social are more to their taste, and that the truth is ?fake news?.
It stands for Main Stream Media, and isn't pejorative at all. It
distinguishes traditional news outlets like TV and newspapers from
alternative/social media.
Of course it?s pejorative. The term is only used by people like you who prefer other, less reliable, information sources. Simply using the term indicates your dislike of the professional media, perhaps because they
expect you to pay for quality, and you can?t.
In message <10ol2if$2rllj$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:00:15 on Mon, 9 Mar
2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
On 08/03/2026 22:55, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 22:46:00 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cde4p01g0r1t
Building/dome has collapsed.
No trains calling at the station. Are they running through or is the
line blocked?
It's a terminus (but with through lower platforms).
Glasgow Central will be closed on Monday and perhaps longer.
Low-level trains will run through but not call at Central.
The fire spread from a nearby shop.
The link above is being updated as further developments occur.
Distinct lack of rail replacement buses, TPE have thrown in the towel,
and Avanti saying people can use their tickets on LNER. Last time this happened trains to Edinburgh from London were crushed loaded.
This from Google AI, which coincides with my own understanding:
In Glasgow it's ironic that one the businesses which has been burnt downAnd it was a very well known (I won?t say high quality - I only ate their product once and it was so-so) chip shop. Being right next to the station entrance it had very high passing trade from people getting on or off
is a fish-and-chip shop, which are often the*cause* of fires. A burger
bar caused part of Waterloo Station in London to be burnt out in 1998.
And then another at Liverpool St in 2012.
trains.
On 12/03/2026 11:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
In Glasgow it's ironic that one the businesses which has been burnt down >>> is a fish-and-chip shop, which are often the*cause* of fires. A burgerAnd it was a very well known (I won?t say high quality - I only ate their
bar caused part of Waterloo Station in London to be burnt out in 1998.
And then another at Liverpool St in 2012.
product once and it was so-so) chip shop. Being right next to the station >> entrance it had very high passing trade from people getting on or off
trains.
Actually, the Blue Lagoon survived the fire, but has water damage.
they had a fire themselves 14 years ago, and the rebuild was doen to a
high standard, in that any internal fire would not penetrate the
structure for at least a hour (possibly more), and, of course, this
worked in the reverse way on Sunday, in that it protected the shop while
all around it was severely damaged.
<https://scontent.fgla4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/651320535_1355757703238217_6909878502873100176_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p960x960_tt6&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=13d280&_nc_ohc=NkN8DQJwZuUQ7kNvwGTaImN&_nc_oc=Adl_t0Th5F2wXIF_USlfHoKy4G8vODZzLQgG0GLNS4Q2akee65K3Hm11DO1amQ44IZ3dOgp-SZ1scQqudU8sDhVm&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fgla4-1.fna&_nc_gid=lkbmUcaxy6ofF7y3jIEXyw&_nc_ss=8&oh=00_Afw1j-LFYtSwO7ezHdI6V6Z-MaI1GcyJ3v1XjuryNZRYHg&oe=69B8D377>
Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:
On 12/03/2026 11:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
In Glasgow it's ironic that one the businesses which has been burnt down >>>> is a fish-and-chip shop, which are often the*cause* of fires. A burger >>>> bar caused part of Waterloo Station in London to be burnt out in 1998. >>>> And then another at Liverpool St in 2012.And it was a very well known (I won?t say high quality - I only ate their >>> product once and it was so-so) chip shop. Being right next to the station >>> entrance it had very high passing trade from people getting on or off
trains.
Actually, the Blue Lagoon survived the fire, but has water damage.
they had a fire themselves 14 years ago, and the rebuild was doen to a
high standard, in that any internal fire would not penetrate the
structure for at least a hour (possibly more), and, of course, this
worked in the reverse way on Sunday, in that it protected the shop while
all around it was severely damaged.
<https://scontent.fgla4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/651320535_1355757703238217_6909878502873100176_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p960x960_tt6&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=13d280&_nc_ohc=NkN8DQJwZuUQ7kNvwGTaImN&_nc_oc=Adl_t0Th5F2wXIF_USlfHoKy4G8vODZzLQgG0GLNS4Q2akee65K3Hm11DO1amQ44IZ3dOgp-SZ1scQqudU8sDhVm&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fgla4-1.fna&_nc_gid=lkbmUcaxy6ofF7y3jIEXyw&_nc_ss=8&oh=00_Afw1j-LFYtSwO7ezHdI6V6Z-MaI1GcyJ3v1XjuryNZRYHg&oe=69B8D377>
FSVO ?survived?! It looks as though the left hand end of the fascia has suffered at least some damage, and the windows look smoke stained. Has it also survived 4 stories of Victorian building falling on top of it, and
will it survive the likely demolition of the facade above it?
Good on them if it does open again, but I suspect its future still hangs in the balance.
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
On 12/03/2026 10:13, Roland Perry wrote:
No, I like the professional media, it's "anonymous bloggers" that I
think do a poor job.
I get the impressions sometimes that some of the 'independent' sources
put most of their effort in dreaming up extravagant titles when it is >probably just a young kid with a mobile phone in his bedroom
selectively copying and pasting clips from real news sources!
On 12/03/2026 14:36, Tweed wrote:
This from Google AI, which coincides with my own understanding:
Well, it would wouldn't it?
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >>often staffed by so called asylum seekers.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >>them.
insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also,
would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the
remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage
so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
In message <lt83rkl841ker6g69p39avc1f8d8vbr7le@4ax.com>, at 17:19:31 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 17:04:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on >>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>>>wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these >>>>>>>operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs >>>>>>>from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers. >>>>>>>Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside them.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>>>insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>>>would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>>>so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>>>the tenants.
This suggests otherwise: >>>>https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >>>>09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >>>>and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small >>>unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
Can you back up that assertion, given that the document states: 'In >>Scotland, a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI lease) is the
standard format for commercial leases'?
It might be standard, but not universal. It would absurd for every 50
retail units in a shopping mall to all take out insurance in case the
whole place was a write-off (not caused by any negligence in the
operation of their own unit).
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <VYlsR.40$X61.0@fx16.ams1>, at 22:24:53 on Wed, 11 Mar 2026, >>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/03/2026 19:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <f9isR.377$_71.43@fx14.ams1>, at 18:04:59 on Wed, 11 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tg23rkh8gfilf9s162cea397f5tbbt4kae@4ax.com>, at 15:39:37 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
The evidence is all around you. Stories like that are written by >>>>>>>> hallucinating AI bots, or maybe an intern. They have zero interest in >>>>>>>> researching a story that doesn't fall into their lap.
In message <u503rkppda7tvrqcbpaj3quptjh04kgrp5@4ax.com>, at >>>>>>>>>> 14:48:57 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:33:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
In message <RiesR.171$Vb1.23@fx11.ams1>, at 13:42:09 on Wed, 11 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10orp6n$13pbd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:16 on Wed, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 Mar
2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
On 10/03/2026 10:00, Scott wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful but I think we should wait >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
structural engineers' report as clearly Mr Dunlop has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visited the
locus.
But, from his previous work, Mr Dunlop possibly knows the roof >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
than anyone else and perhaps the 'structural engineers' might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find it
worth speaking to him.
It's unusual to see keyboard warriors whose main qualification >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is having? worked on a project 25yrs ago.
Why do you call him a keyboard warrior?? He was interviewed by >>>>>>>>>>>>> ?newspaper as he was the leading architect for the last >>>>>>>>>>>>> refurbishment of the? station, including the roof.
It's highly unlikely they unearthed the chap themselves, rather >>>>>>>>>>>> than him
looking to get 15 minutes of fame.
On what basis do you make that allegation?
A deeper understanding of how stories get into the MSM than you have.
Ah, you're not content with just insulting the architect, but want to >>>>>>>>> include me and the newspaper in, too. All with zero evidence. >>>>>>>>
The evidence I have for that isn't just as an observer the last few >>>>>>>> years, but 40yrs as a campaigner with numerous people far more qualified
than I am in getting stories into the MSM, and it takes days and days of
effort to get onto "the sofa" or onto the lists of people who get called
at 7.01am to give their piece to camera/microphone about something in >>>>>>>> the news today.
That?s to promote a non-expert to get them undeserved work. That?s not >>>>>>> the
case here.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, stop digging.
You've got this huge chip on your shoulder about people who you think >>>>>> aren't experts, but are top of their game (apart perhaps from this >>>>>> architect who did a project 25yrs ago).
And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they >>>>>> just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be >>>>>> an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier >>>>> that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media
reference I can find points to the Herald.
It?s a pejorative social media nickname for mainstream (ie professional) >>>> media. It?s used by people who think that Facebook, TikTok, X and Truth >>>> Social are more to their taste, and that the truth is ?fake news?.
It stands for Main Stream Media, and isn't pejorative at all. It
distinguishes traditional news outlets like TV and newspapers from
alternative/social media.
Of course it?s pejorative. The term is only used by people like you who
prefer other, less reliable, information sources. Simply using the term
indicates your dislike of the professional media, perhaps because they
expect you to pay for quality, and you can?t.
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >This from Google AI,
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
On 2026-03-12 12:00 p.m., Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is
now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Oh... another entitled imPerryalist edict has been thrust upon us po' forelock-tugging raggedy misfits.
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 19:25:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <lt83rkl841ker6g69p39avc1f8d8vbr7le@4ax.com>, at 17:19:31 on >>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:Where strict liability might apply it would not be absurd to insure
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 17:04:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on >>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>>>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>>>>wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these >>>>>>>>operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs >>>>>>>>from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers. >>>>>>>>Its not fair on those running normal business having these >>>>>>>>risks alongside them.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>>>>insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>>>>would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>>>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>>>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>>>>so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>>>>the tenants.
This suggests otherwise: >>>>>https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >>>>>09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >>>>>and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small >>>>unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
Can you back up that assertion, given that the document states: 'In >>>Scotland, a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI lease) is the
standard format for commercial leases'?
It might be standard, but not universal. It would absurd for every 50 >>retail units in a shopping mall to all take out insurance in case the
whole place was a write-off (not caused by any negligence in the
operation of their own unit).
against damage caused to your neighbour by the cause (e.g. flood or
fire) escaping your property. The odds of that extending beyond your >immediately adjacent neighbour to his neighbours will on average be a >diminishing quantity and part of the calculation of risk.
On 2026-03-12 12:00 p.m., Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12
Mar 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative butBut not when ***I*** use the expression.
is now.
Oh... another entitled imPerryalist edict has been thrust upon us po' >forelock-tugging raggedy misfits.
An indication that what follows is to be taken with a sack of salt.And most people who do get themselves on MSM aren't wanting "work" they >>>>>>> just wish to advance whatever cause they are campaigning for.
By the way, still waiting to hear what field you believe yourself to be >>>>>>> an expert in.
Out of interest (as I cannot find any reference in this thread earlier >>>>>> that the last couple of posts) - what or who is MSM? The only media >>>>>> reference I can find points to the Herald.
It?s a pejorative social media nickname for mainstream (ie professional) >>>>> media. It?s used by people who think that Facebook, TikTok, X and Truth >>>>> Social are more to their taste, and that the truth is ?fake news?.
It stands for Main Stream Media, and isn't pejorative at all. It
distinguishes traditional news outlets like TV and newspapers from
alternative/social media.
Of course it?s pejorative. The term is only used by people like you who
prefer other, less reliable, information sources. Simply using the term
indicates your dislike of the professional media, perhaps because they
expect you to pay for quality, and you can?t.
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>This from Google AI,
<snip>
In message <1dc6rkpkgn41rfkn7124nhco7q6kogjnug@4ax.com>, at 21:58:32 on
Thu, 12 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 19:25:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <lt83rkl841ker6g69p39avc1f8d8vbr7le@4ax.com>, at 17:19:31 onWhere strict liability might apply it would not be absurd to insure
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 17:04:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on >>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>> wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>>>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>> On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>>>>> wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these >>>>>>>>> operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs >>>>>>>>> from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers. >>>>>>>>> Its not fair on those running normal business having these >>>>>>>>> risks alongside them.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>>>>> insurance is capped at œ10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>>>>> would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>>>>> remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>>>>> negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>>>>> so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>>>>> the tenants.
This suggests otherwise:
https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >>>>>> 09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >>>>>> and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small >>>>> unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
Can you back up that assertion, given that the document states: 'In
Scotland, a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI lease) is the
standard format for commercial leases'?
It might be standard, but not universal. It would absurd for every 50
retail units in a shopping mall to all take out insurance in case the
whole place was a write-off (not caused by any negligence in the
operation of their own unit).
against damage caused to your neighbour by the cause (e.g. flood or
fire) escaping your property. The odds of that extending beyond your
immediately adjacent neighbour to his neighbours will on average be a
diminishing quantity and part of the calculation of risk.
Perhaps we can now expect the premiums for vape shops to surge, or
indeed any occupier of an old tinderbox building like the one in
Glasgow.
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 19:25:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <lt83rkl841ker6g69p39avc1f8d8vbr7le@4ax.com>, at 17:19:31 on >>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:Where strict liability might apply it would not be absurd to insure
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 17:04:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on >>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>>>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>>>>wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these >>>>>>>>operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs >>>>>>>>from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers. >>>>>>>>Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside them.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>>>>insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>>>>would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>>>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>>>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>>>>so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>>>>the tenants.
This suggests otherwise: >>>>>https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >>>>>09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >>>>>and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small >>>>unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
Can you back up that assertion, given that the document states: 'In >>>Scotland, a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI lease) is the
standard format for commercial leases'?
It might be standard, but not universal. It would absurd for every 50 >>retail units in a shopping mall to all take out insurance in case the >>whole place was a write-off (not caused by any negligence in the
operation of their own unit).
against damage caused to your neighbour by the cause (e.g. flood or
fire) escaping your property. The odds of that extending beyond your >immediately adjacent neighbour to his neighbours will on average be a >diminishing quantity and part of the calculation of risk.
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 11:22:32 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>AFAIR nuisance law still requires you to prevent a nuisance reaching
wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>>going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >>>often staffed by so called asylum seekers.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >>>them.
insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also,
would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage
so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
your neighbour's property even if it originated elsewhere but in
practice generally leads those downwind (or their insurers if
applicable) of the originator of the nuisance acting together rather
than suing in series. Being accidental doesn't get you out of a claim
if e.g. your tank bursts and it floods your neighbour.
In message <10ovk3v$2i0ck$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:01:01 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
On 2026-03-12 12:00 p.m., Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12
Mar 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative butBut not when ***I*** use the expression.
is now.
Oh... another entitled imPerryalist edict has been thrust upon us po'
forelock-tugging raggedy misfits.
Oh dear, it's the initialism police.
Would it help if I spelt it out in full in future: "Main Stream Media"?
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and
say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
Perhaps we can now expect the premiums for vape shops to surge, or
indeed any occupier of an old tinderbox building like the one in
Glasgow.
I doubt any insurance premium has been paid by the vape shop.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >being bright and cheerful
but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and say I was in a gay mood
now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall the Gosport Ferry
?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent Enterprise ? in
the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meantEnterprise
being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and
say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall >> the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?. >When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade? I just >tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find out more about the >excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but most of the links are to
Pride in London in July.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 11:22:14 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>> being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and >>> say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall >>> the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?SolentEnterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?. >> When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade? I just
tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find out more about the >> excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but most of the links are to
Pride in London in July.
Also the bum bandits are responsible for the cultural theft of rainbow insignias. They used to be common in nurserys and schools, now people assume they're some kind political statement so many have gone. No one would make
a kids TV program called "Rainbow" today with a host in a pink sweater and camp puppets.
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant
being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and say I was in a gay mood
now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall the Gosport Ferry
?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent Enterprise ? in
the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
As for this suggestion that "MSM" is a pejorative, that's not something
I'm aware of. But if it shuts up keyboard warriors and initialism
police, in future I'll spell it out longhand: "Main Stream Media".
Then we can get back to debunking the claims, from people who have never been involved in getting their message into Main Stream Media, that they
are a pull rather than a push medium.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and
say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
GH
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant
being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and
say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall >> the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent Enterprise >> ? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?. When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade? I just tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find out more about the excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but most of the links are to
Pride in London in July.
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?. When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative
but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and say I was in a gay mood
now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall the Gosport Ferry
?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent Enterprise ? in
the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
As for this suggestion that "MSM" is a pejorative, that's not something
I'm aware of. But if it shuts up keyboard warriors and initialism
police, in future I'll spell it out longhand: "Main Stream Media".
Then we can get back to debunking the claims, from people who have never
been involved in getting their message into Main Stream Media, that they
are a pull rather than a push medium.
They?re both. You?ve viewed from the perspective of having to use PR
efforts to promote nobodies to get some press coverage.
But genuine experts/celebrities/royals/politicians/top business people
don?t have to do that ? the press reach out to them. If anything,
they employ PR people to keep the press away, and to hide rather than >publicise things.
I just tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find
out more about the excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but
most of the links are to Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better
than most" but not "excellent".
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ovk3v$2i0ck$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:01:01 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
On 2026-03-12 12:00 p.m., Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12
Mar 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative butBut not when ***I*** use the expression.
is now.
Oh... another entitled imPerryalist edict has been thrust upon us po'
forelock-tugging raggedy misfits.
Oh dear, it's the initialism police.
Would it help if I spelt it out in full in future: "Main Stream Media"?
That?s not the complaint.
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as
a pejorative,
just as most other users of the term do.
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ovk3v$2i0ck$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:01:01 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
On 2026-03-12 12:00 p.m., Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12
Mar 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative butBut not when ***I*** use the expression.
is now.
Oh... another entitled imPerryalist edict has been thrust upon us po'
forelock-tugging raggedy misfits.
Oh dear, it's the initialism police.
Would it help if I spelt it out in full in future: "Main Stream Media"?
That?s not the complaint.
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as >>a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm >concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
By the way, you've failed to produce any evidence of your engineering or >journalism qualifications.
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as >>a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm >concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
On 13/03/2026 11:22, Recliner wrote:
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?.
When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade?
It is sad when words like those are taken over by minority groups so
most people will avoid using them.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:18:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026, >>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ovk3v$2i0ck$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:01:01 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>> 2026, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:That?s not the complaint.
On 2026-03-12 12:00 p.m., Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 >>>>>> Mar 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but >>>>>>> is now.But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Oh... another entitled imPerryalist edict has been thrust upon us po' >>>>> forelock-tugging raggedy misfits.
Oh dear, it's the initialism police.
Would it help if I spelt it out in full in future: "Main Stream Media"? >>>
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as >>>a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm >>concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
By the way, you've failed to produce any evidence of your engineering or >>journalism qualifications.
What makes you think I have any intention of answering any of your
questions about me?
This is a forum to discuss UK railways and related topics (and, yes,
those relationships are sometimes quite tenuous).
It is not a forum for you to roll out your tedious autobiography in a >thousand boring installments. It's ludicrous that you think others
should behave as oddly as you do.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:18:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026, >>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as >>>a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm >>concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
People without your prejudice just call it the Media. Only people who
want to denigrate it call it the MSM, where or not the initials are >expanded.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:18:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as >>> a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm
concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
People without your prejudice just call it the Media. Only people who
want to denigrate it call it the MSM, where or not
the initials are expanded.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:18:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as >>>> a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm >>> concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
People without your prejudice just call it the Media. Only people who
want to denigrate it call it the MSM, where or not
the initials are expanded.
I don?t think that?s fair. You can, quite factually, divide the media into >the mainstream and more fringe entities. You can make that distinction >without prejudice or any perjorative use, and you can use the abbreviation >quite neutrally.
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant
being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
Latest update from Network Rail, reported Main Stream Media:
Building handed to Glasgow City Council by fire services.
Engineers have not identified significant structural damage.
Damage to the station itself, mainly from water ingress, appears
to be contained to a small office on the Union St side, and a
small part of the glazed area directly above it.
Latest update from Network Rail, reported Main Stream Media:
Building handed to Glasgow City Council by fire services.
Engineers have not identified significant structural damage.
Damage to the station itself, mainly from water ingress, appears
to be contained to a small office on the Union St side, and a
small part of the glazed area directly above it.
On 13/03/2026 11:22, Recliner wrote:
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?.
When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade?
It is sad when words like those are taken over by minority groups so
most people will avoid using them.
In message <10p0vsg$343dn$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:28:00 on Fri, 13 MarFullers were one of those medium sized brewery that Camra held up as a
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
I just tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find
out more about the excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but
most of the links are to Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and
say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
On 13/03/2026 11:22, Recliner wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but
is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>> being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and >>> say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can
recall
the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed toÿ ?Solent
Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?.
When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade?ÿ I just
tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find out more about
the
excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but most of the links are to
Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better than most" but not "excellent". Now Black Sheep I do describe as excellent.
Oh and don't say ""25yrs ago" too loud, because quite a lot can happen
to a building in the interim.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:13:53 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 13/03/2026 11:22, Recliner wrote:
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?. >>> When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade?
It is sad when words like those are taken over by minority groups so
most people will avoid using them.
I suppose it's always happened ? we simply no longer remember or even know the original meanings of some words. It's one
of the ways that languages evolve.
For example, look at 'sick', 'bad' and 'wicked'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/language/uptodate/2009/06/090609_uptodate_sick.shtml
Or 'terrific', which used to mean 'frightening'.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22293/how-and-why-have-some-words-changed-to-a-complete-opposite
Because if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:29:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
Latest update from Network Rail, reported Main Stream Media:
Which publication?
Building handed to Glasgow City Council by fire services.
Engineers have not identified significant structural damage.
Damage to the station itself, mainly from water ingress, appears
to be contained to a small office on the Union St side, and a
small part of the glazed area directly above it.
If you actually respected the media and copyright, you'd include a link
to the story. But you never do ? why not?
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/national/25934496.demolition-fire-da >maged-building-near-glasgow-central-begins/
On 13/03/2026 10:52, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 MarMeanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
meant
being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and
say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can recall >> the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to
?Solent Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
In the 1970s there was a boat hire company on the Thames whose craft
were all named Gay <something>. Used to see them regularly passing
through Reading when I lived there.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Also the bum bandits are responsible for the cultural theft of rainbow
insignias. They used to be common in nurserys and schools, now people assume >> they're some kind political statement so many have gone. No one would make >> a kids TV program called "Rainbow" today with a host in a pink sweater and >> camp puppets.
Yes, though what?s confusing is that rainbows are also used as NHS symbols.
I don?t know if there?s some hidden code in exactly which colours feature
in the stripes.
In message <10p0vsg$343dn$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:28:00 on Fri, 13 Mar
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
I just tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find
out more about the excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but
most of the links are to Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
On 13/03/2026 12:28, ColinR wrote:
On 13/03/2026 11:22, Recliner wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but >>>>>> is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>> being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and >>>> say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can
recall
the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed toÿ ?Solent
Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?. >>> When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade?ÿ I just >>> tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find out more about
the
excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but most of the links are to
Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better than
most" but not "excellent". Now Black Sheep I do describe as excellent.
My first brewery trip was to Chiswick, rather spoiled by collapsing with what turned out to be food poisoning half way round. Hasten to add it
was nothing to do with the brewery. I was more annoyed at missing the tasting session at the end of the trip.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now. >>>>But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
Back in the early 1970s (they may still exist) there was a kayak building >company called Gaybo. It was owned(?) by a canoeist called Gay Goldsmith.
I gather he soon afterwards reverted to his given name of Graham.
P.S. And Gaybo does still exist, at least until recently: ><https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00937411> ><https://www.paddlerguide.com/gaybo-limited-takes-ownership-of-kayak-brand-wave-sport/>
Sam
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 11:36:48 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Also the bum bandits are responsible for the cultural theft of rainbow
insignias. They used to be common in nurserys and schools, now people assume
they're some kind political statement so many have gone. No one would make >>> a kids TV program called "Rainbow" today with a host in a pink sweater and >>> camp puppets.
Yes, though what?s confusing is that rainbows are also used as NHS symbols. >> I don?t know if there?s some hidden code in exactly which colours feature
in the stripes.
The NHS never used to use rainbows until Pride became a big deal. I'm sure its
just an underhand way of those at the top virtue signalling and polishing their
woke halos.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
Back in the early 1970s (they may still exist) there was a kayak building
company called Gaybo. It was owned(?) by a canoeist called Gay Goldsmith. >> I gather he soon afterwards reverted to his given name of Graham.
P.S. And Gaybo does still exist, at least until recently:
<https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00937411>
<https://www.paddlerguide.com/gaybo-limited-takes-ownership-of-kayak-brand-wave-sport/>
Sam
There's a company in, I think, the Palmers Green/Wood Green area
called Sambo's Tyres. I dare say there's a good explanation but I
wouldn't use that as a trade name these days.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
Back in the early 1970s (they may still exist) there was a kayak building
company called Gaybo. It was owned(?) by a canoeist called Gay Goldsmith. >> I gather he soon afterwards reverted to his given name of Graham.
P.S. And Gaybo does still exist, at least until recently:
<https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00937411>
<https://www.paddlerguide.com/gaybo-limited-takes-ownership-of-kayak-brand-wave-sport/>
Sam
There's a company in, I think, the Palmers Green/Wood Green area
called Sambo's Tyres. I dare say there's a good explanation but I
wouldn't use that as a trade name these days.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:38:09 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson ><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:18:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026, >>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as
a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm >>>> concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
People without your prejudice just call it the Media. Only people who
want to denigrate it call it the MSM, where or not
the initials are expanded.
I don?t think that?s fair. You can, quite factually, divide the
media into the mainstream and more fringe entities. You can make that >>distinction without prejudice or any perjorative use, and you can use
the abbreviation quite neutrally.
Yes, that's how the distinction started. But soon, it became obvious
that the only people who used the 'MSM' term were intent on denigrating
it, as Roland invariably does.
They preferred the amateur, alternative media, which is admittedly
often more interesting, and does react faster to breaking news
(because, like Roland, it shuns fact-checking).
Similarly, he automatically denigrates experts even when he knows
nothing about them. Except of course, the ones he sleeps with.
On 13/03/2026 13:32, Roland Perry wrote:
Because if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
Ale was a brew without hops ,Beer was a brew with them. Fortunately for
CAMRA the distinction had almost been forgotten by the 1970?s.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:16:24 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10p0vsg$343dn$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:28:00 on Fri, 13 Mar >>2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
I just tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find
out more about the excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but
most of the links are to Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
On 13/03/2026 13:11, Roland Perry wrote:
Oh and don't say ""25yrs ago" too loud, because quite a lot can
happen to a building in the interim.
I doubt that much has been done to the roof of Central Station in the
last 25 years.
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a planned slow introduction of service could restart.
Because people complain if the link doesn't work,
and the conversation
gets entirely out of control as a result.
In message <n1iov0Fnul9U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:31:44 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Ale was a brew without hops ,Beer was a brew with them. Fortunately for
CAMRA the distinction had almost been forgotten by the 1970?s.
Mindful that the "RA" stands for Real Ale.
In message <6a58rkhn1uum01e9uv9g52cv0pdkfbaniv@4ax.com>, at 13:53:18 on
Fri, 13 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:29:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
Latest update from Network Rail, reported Main Stream Media:
Which publication?
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ Building handed to Glasgow City Council by fire services.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ Engineers have not identified significant structural damage.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ Damage to the station itself, mainly from water ingress, appears
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ to be contained to a small office on the Union St side, and a
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ small part of the glazed area directly above it.
If you actually respected the media and copyright, you'd include a
link to the story. But you never do ? why not?
Because people complain if the link doesn't work, and the conversation
gets entirely out of control as a result.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/national/25934496.demolition-fire-da[snip]
maged-building-near-glasgow-central-begins/
So the man who said the whole roof would need substantial repairs,
turned out to wrong.
In message <10p1bk9$3aj9s$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:48:25 on Fri, 13 Mar
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 13/03/2026 10:52, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:ÿMeanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but
is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
meant
being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and >>> say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can
recall
the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent
Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
In the 1970s there was a boat hire company on the Thames whose craft
were all named Gay <something>. Used to see them regularly passing
through Reading when I lived there.
The firm I had in mind was based in Tewkesbury.
Apparently "Gay Cruisers", "Gay Craft", "Gay Fleet" and "Gay Boats" were
all registered business names at the time.
In the boat register today on the Thames are 'Gay Manon', 'Gay Lady',
'Gay Venture', 'Gay Daze', and "Lady Gay'.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/03/2026 12:28, ColinR wrote:
On 13/03/2026 11:22, Recliner wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:Another word that might be going through a similar transition is ?Pride?. >>>> When you hear the word now, do you think of a beer, or a parade?ÿ I just >>>> tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find out more about >>>> the
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but >>>>>>> is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>>> being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting and >>>>> say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can >>>>> recall
the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed toÿ ?Solent
Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted. >>>>
excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but most of the links are to >>>> Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better than >>> most" but not "excellent". Now Black Sheep I do describe as excellent.
My first brewery trip was to Chiswick, rather spoiled by collapsing with
what turned out to be food poisoning half way round. Hasten to add it
was nothing to do with the brewery. I was more annoyed at missing the
tasting session at the end of the trip.
This is what you missed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/49444905058/in/album-72157712847308963/lightbox/
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
Back in the early 1970s (they may still exist) there was a kayak building
company called Gaybo. It was owned(?) by a canoeist called Gay Goldsmith. >> I gather he soon afterwards reverted to his given name of Graham.
P.S. And Gaybo does still exist, at least until recently:
<https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00937411>
<https://www.paddlerguide.com/gaybo-limited-takes-ownership-of-kayak-brand-wave-sport/>
Sam
There's a company in, I think, the Palmers Green/Wood Green area
called Sambo's Tyres. I dare say there's a good explanation but I
wouldn't use that as a trade name these days.
In message <n1iov0Fnul9U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:31:44 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Ale was a brew without hops ,Beer was a brew with them. Fortunately for
CAMRA the distinction had almost been forgotten by the 1970?s.
Mindful that the "RA" stands for Real Ale.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1iov0Fnul9U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:31:44 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Ale was a brew without hops ,Beer was a brew with them. Fortunately for
CAMRA the distinction had almost been forgotten by the 1970?s.
Mindful that the "RA" stands for Real Ale.
Exactly , the style of drink CAMRA was promoting was Beer, but CAMRB would not have
had the same ring to it and if brewers had started to supply them with real Beer the members would have complained about the taste bitterly.
On 13/03/2026 16:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10p1bk9$3aj9s$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:48:25 on Fri, 13 Mar
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 13/03/2026 10:52, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:ÿMeanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but >>>>>> is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
meant
being bright and cheerful but I would not walk into a pub or meeting
and
say I was in a gay mood now, I expect our Shetland correspondent can
recall
the Gosport Ferry ?Gay Enterprise? which was renamed to ?Solent
Enterprise
? in the late 1970?s as the connotation of the original name shifted.
In the 1970s there was a boat hire company on the Thames whose craft
were all named Gay <something>. Used to see them regularly passing
through Reading when I lived there.
The firm I had in mind was based in Tewkesbury.
Apparently "Gay Cruisers", "Gay Craft", "Gay Fleet" and "Gay Boats"
were all registered business names at the time.We
In the boat register today on the Thames are 'Gay Manon', 'Gay Lady',
'Gay Venture', 'Gay Daze', and "Lady Gay'.
Gay Fantasy was the one I used.
On 13/03/2026 17:32, Trolleybus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
Back in the early 1970s (they may still exist) there was a kayak building >>> company called Gaybo. It was owned(?) by a canoeist called Gay Goldsmith. >>> I gather he soon afterwards reverted to his given name of Graham.
P.S. And Gaybo does still exist, at least until recently:
<https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00937411>
<https://www.paddlerguide.com/gaybo-limited-takes-ownership-of-kayak-brand-wave-sport/>
Sam
There's a company in, I think, the Palmers Green/Wood Green area
called Sambo's Tyres. I dare say there's a good explanation but I
wouldn't use that as a trade name these days.
And, of course, there were the (in)famous Robertson's gollywogs
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump?
There are still a few pubs where they go into a backroom and do that,
but the vast majority is pumped.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/03/2026 17:32, Trolleybus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13 >>>>> Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>>>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think, >>>>> called "Gay Boats".
Back in the early 1970s (they may still exist) there was a kayak building >>>> company called Gaybo. It was owned(?) by a canoeist called Gay Goldsmith. >>>> I gather he soon afterwards reverted to his given name of Graham.
P.S. And Gaybo does still exist, at least until recently:
<https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00937411>
<https://www.paddlerguide.com/gaybo-limited-takes-ownership-of-kayak-brand-wave-sport/>
Sam
There's a company in, I think, the Palmers Green/Wood Green area
called Sambo's Tyres. I dare say there's a good explanation but I
wouldn't use that as a trade name these days.
And, of course, there were the (in)famous Robertson's gollywogs
We had a large collection of those pasted onto a cupboard in our kitchen
when I were a lad.
And don?t forget Little Black Sambo.
In message <6t48rkpqsuotp33bm004diov1b8auhbiqi@4ax.com>, at 13:44:46 on
Fri, 13 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:38:09 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:18:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <gRRsR.74$_%.59@fx12.ams1>, at 10:41:16 on Fri, 13 Mar 2026, >>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
What would help is if you conceded that you invariably use the MSM term as
a pejorative,
That's simply a lie. I have never used it in that way. MSM as far as I'm >>>>> concerned is just a shorthand for "Main Stream Media".
People without your prejudice just call it the Media. Only people who
want to denigrate it call it the MSM, where or not
the initials are expanded.
I don?t think that?s fair. You can, quite factually, divide the
media into the mainstream and more fringe entities. You can make that
distinction without prejudice or any perjorative use, and you can use
the abbreviation quite neutrally.
Yes, that's how the distinction started. But soon, it became obvious
that the only people who used the 'MSM' term were intent on denigrating
it, as Roland invariably does.
Repeating that lie just makes you look like a troll.
They preferred the amateur, alternative media, which is admittedly
often more interesting, and does react faster to breaking news
(because, like Roland, it shuns fact-checking).
Oh really! What a plonker you are.
Similarly, he automatically denigrates experts even when he knows
nothing about them. Except of course, the ones he sleeps with.
That's definitely libellous.
On 13/03/2026 21:00, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1iov0Fnul9U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:31:44 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Ale was a brew without hops ,Beer was a brew with them. Fortunately for >>>> CAMRA the distinction had almost been forgotten by the 1970?s.
Mindful that the "RA" stands for Real Ale.
Exactly , the style of drink CAMRA was promoting was Beer, but CAMRB would >> not have
had the same ring to it and if brewers had started to supply them with real >> Beer the members would have complained about the taste bitterly.
So they had to hop to it to find a bitter name?
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/03/2026 21:00, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1iov0Fnul9U1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:31:44 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Ale was a brew without hops ,Beer was a brew with them. Fortunately for >>>>> CAMRA the distinction had almost been forgotten by the 1970?s.
Mindful that the "RA" stands for Real Ale.
Exactly , the style of drink CAMRA was promoting was Beer, but CAMRB would >>> not have
had the same ring to it and if brewers had started to supply them with real >>> Beer the members would have complained about the taste bitterly.
So they had to hop to it to find a bitter name?
That?s just putting it mildly.
On 13/03/2026 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
Because people complain if the link doesn't work,
You are the only one who complains about a link not working for you.
and the conversation gets entirely out of control as a result.
Because you always insist it is not a problem at your end when no-one
else has a problem.
It was only a few weeks ago where you said a webpage had a problem when
you tried to access it, and that problem must have only been for a
short while during the time you tried to access it, but no one else
could replicate your problem,
so is it a really big coincidence that it happens when you try to
access it?
Or there is a probelm with how you access those web pages?
My money is on the latter, but you'll follow up here saying how right
you always are, and you do nothing wrong when trying to see those
links, and it's always someone elses fault you cant see it.
No one else believes you either.
Similarly, he automatically denigrates experts even when he knows
nothing about them. Except of course, the ones he sleeps with.
That's definitely libellous.
[Recliner: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sosumi.mp3>]
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump?
There are still a few pubs where they go into a backroom and do that,
but the vast majority is pumped.
Cask Ale traditionally came from a Cask , a barrel designed with
basically two holes in it and a shape for sediment to settle into if it is >laid in the traditional way a little off Horizontal , the small hole which >will be at the top to allow the CO2 produced by the secondary fermentation
to escape controlled by small pegs called spiles which can be porous or
hard depending on what stage the beer has reached a skill which most >landlords once had . The other hole takes the cask tap which can be shaped >with a spout for direct pouring but most have a thread to which a pipe with >can be connected with a nut and tail so shaped that it contains a small
gauze filter , the pipe is then the feed for the pump . The beverage
emerging from the pump in the bar is still Cask Ale.
Non Cask ale or Keg is delivered ready to serve in containers stood >vertically which have one dual purpose aperture which admits CO2 or a CO2 >Nitrogen mix to push the beverage out via the internal dip tube.
That?s how it was for decades until pub staff largely lost the skills of
old landlords or cellar space became too crowded to accommodate horizontal >casks due having to store Mongolian Yak lager and similar fashion drinks,
so now there are methods that allow cask beer to be served from a cask
stored upright using a syphon tube inserted in the tap hole to which the
pump pipe can be attached, often unskilled staff set the tube too low so it >dips into the sediment . Thats why a lot of cask ale can end up being
served in less than perfect condition .
But whatever the method Cask Ale should have undergone secondary
fermentation on the premises which is what defines it ,not wether it is >poured straight into a glass or pewter tankard or via a pump.
In message <n1jevcFr8liU1@mid.individual.net>, at 21:47:24 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump?
There are still a few pubs where they go into a backroom and do that,
but the vast majority is pumped.
But whatever the method Cask Ale should have undergone secondary
fermentation on the premises which is what defines it ,not wether it is
poured straight into a glass or pewter tankard or via a pump.
People have been very keen lately to point out that the meaning of some words changes over time. And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means
served from the tap in a horizontal barrel.
I have such a tap in my collection of interesting artefacts, and back in
the 70's and 80's always had a couple of barrels** available at parties
I held. So I know all the gory details inside out.
I had a party last summer and very nearly did the same, but couldn't
find a ready supply of Abbott. So home-brewed something similar, those barrels standing upright but apart from that very much the same.
In message <ubi8rk9qoi70kv8m541aavg3274mgb0dc1@4ax.com>, at 17:29:51 on
Fri, 13 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:16:24 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10p0vsg$343dn$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:28:00 on Fri, 13 Mar >>>2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
I just tried typing ?London Pride? into Google, hoping to find
out more about the excellent Fuller?s product from Chiswick, but >>>>>most of the links are to Pride in London in July.
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better >>>>than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump?
There are still a few pubs where they go into a backroom and do that,
but the vast majority is pumped.
In message <n1jevcFr8liU1@mid.individual.net>, at 21:47:24 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump?
People have been very keen lately to point out that the meaning of some >words changes over time. And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means
served from the tap in a horizontal barrel.
In message <10p20q6$3kp4f$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:49:58 on Fri, 13 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Similarly, he automatically denigrates experts even when he knows
nothing about them. Except of course, the ones he sleeps with.
That's definitely libellous.
[Recliner: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sosumi.mp3>]
I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 11:36:48 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Also the bum bandits are responsible for the cultural theft of rainbow >>>> insignias. They used to be common in nurserys and schools, now people >assume
they're some kind political statement so many have gone. No one would make >>>> a kids TV program called "Rainbow" today with a host in a pink sweater and
featurecamp puppets.
Yes, though what?s confusing is that rainbows are also used as NHS >symbols.
I don?t know if there?s some hidden code in exactly which colours
in the stripes.
The NHS never used to use rainbows until Pride became a big deal. I'm sure >its
just an underhand way of those at the top virtue signalling and polishing >their
woke halos.
The earliest reference to a rainbow that I am aware of (there may be
others, of course) is in the book of Genesis in the Bible, where it?s seen
as a mark of God?s blessing. It been used in all sorts of other ways
since, of course!
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 18:05:12 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 11:36:48 GMTassume
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Also the bum bandits are responsible for the cultural theft of rainbow >>>>> insignias. They used to be common in nurserys and schools, now people
symbols.they're some kind political statement so many have gone. No one would make
a kids TV program called "Rainbow" today with a host in a pink sweater and
camp puppets.
Yes, though what?s confusing is that rainbows are also used as NHS
featureI don?t know if there?s some hidden code in exactly which colours
in the stripes.
The NHS never used to use rainbows until Pride became a big deal. I'm sure >> its
just an underhand way of those at the top virtue signalling and polishing >> their
woke halos.
The earliest reference to a rainbow that I am aware of (there may be
others, of course) is in the book of Genesis in the Bible, where it?s seen >> as a mark of God?s blessing. It been used in all sorts of other ways
since, of course!
I think we can be fairly sure the NHS rainbow lanyards arn't a subtle biblical
reference.
On 14/03/2026 16:02, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 18:05:12 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 11:36:48 GMTsymbols.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Also the bum bandits are responsible for the cultural theft of rainbow >>>>>> insignias. They used to be common in nurserys and schools, now people >>> assume
they're some kind political statement so many have gone. No one would make
a kids TV program called "Rainbow" today with a host in a pink sweater and
camp puppets.
Yes, though what?s confusing is that rainbows are also used as NHS
featureI don?t know if there?s some hidden code in exactly which colours
in the stripes.
The NHS never used to use rainbows until Pride became a big deal. I'm sure >>> its
just an underhand way of those at the top virtue signalling and polishing >>> their
woke halos.
The earliest reference to a rainbow that I am aware of (there may be
others, of course) is in the book of Genesis in the Bible, where it?s seen >>> as a mark of God?s blessing. It been used in all sorts of other ways
since, of course!
I think we can be fairly sure the NHS rainbow lanyards arn't a subtle biblical
reference.
Didn't the NHS rainbow thing come in during covid?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1dc6rkpkgn41rfkn7124nhco7q6kogjnug@4ax.com>, at 21:58:32 on
Thu, 12 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 19:25:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <lt83rkl841ker6g69p39avc1f8d8vbr7le@4ax.com>, at 17:19:31 on >>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:Where strict liability might apply it would not be absurd to insure
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 17:04:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on >>>>>> Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>> wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on
Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these >>>>>>>>>> operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs >>>>>>>>>> from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers. >>>>>>>>>> Its not fair on those running normal business having these >>>>>>>>>> risks alongside them.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>>>>>> insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>>>>>> would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>>>>>> remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>>>>>> negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>>>>>> so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>>>>>> the tenants.
This suggests otherwise:
https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/
09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl
and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small >>>>>> unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
Can you back up that assertion, given that the document states: 'In
Scotland, a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI lease) is the
standard format for commercial leases'?
It might be standard, but not universal. It would absurd for every 50
retail units in a shopping mall to all take out insurance in case the
whole place was a write-off (not caused by any negligence in the
operation of their own unit).
against damage caused to your neighbour by the cause (e.g. flood or
fire) escaping your property. The odds of that extending beyond your
immediately adjacent neighbour to his neighbours will on average be a
diminishing quantity and part of the calculation of risk.
Perhaps we can now expect the premiums for vape shops to surge, or
indeed any occupier of an old tinderbox building like the one in
Glasgow.
I doubt any insurance premium has been paid by the vape shop.
On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 21:58:32 +0000, Charles Ellson ><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 19:25:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <lt83rkl841ker6g69p39avc1f8d8vbr7le@4ax.com>, at 17:19:31 on >>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:Where strict liability might apply it would not be absurd to insure
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 17:04:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>wrote:
In message <ik23rkl30f0d9us34dcrcgcu9l5m6ugsuj@4ax.com>, at 15:33:53 on >>>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:21:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>wrote:
In message <pjj2rk906ed9r0jjr1erfu0v2uolmvn87c@4ax.com>, at 11:22:32 on >>>>>>>Wed, 11 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> >>>>>>>>wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these >>>>>>>>>operations going on all over the country run by criminal gangs >>>>>>>>>from Eastern Europe and often staffed by so called asylum seekers. >>>>>>>>>Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside them.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car >>>>>>>>insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also, >>>>>>>>would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>>>>>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>>>>>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage >>>>>>>>so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
The building is usually insured (or self-insured) by the landlord, not >>>>>>>the tenants.
This suggests otherwise: >>>>>>https://www.glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/news/member-blogs/2025/october/ >>>>>>09/repair-obligations-under-a-full-repairing-and-insuring-lease-in-scotl >>>>>>and-how-to-negotiate-better-terms-and-manage-risk/
That's when you are leasing 100% of a stand-alone building, not a small >>>>>unit that's maybe 2% of a much bigger building.
Can you back up that assertion, given that the document states: 'In >>>>Scotland, a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI lease) is the >>>>standard format for commercial leases'?
It might be standard, but not universal. It would absurd for every 50 >>>retail units in a shopping mall to all take out insurance in case the >>>whole place was a write-off (not caused by any negligence in the >>>operation of their own unit).
against damage caused to your neighbour by the cause (e.g. flood or
fire) escaping your property. The odds of that extending beyond your >>immediately adjacent neighbour to his neighbours will on average be a >>diminishing quantity and part of the calculation of risk.
Is damage caused by your neighbour not 'accidental damage' as far as
your own policy is concerned meaning the insurers would meet the claim >initially then claim against the other party (subrogated rights)?
On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 21:33:08 +0000, Charles Ellson ><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2026 11:22:32 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 11 Mar 2026 00:38:05 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>AFAIR nuisance law still requires you to prevent a nuisance reaching
wrote:
[snip]
Bet there was no insurance in place either, thousands of these operations >>>>going on all over the country run by criminal gangs from Eastern Europe and >>>>often staffed by so called asylum seekers.Does buildings insurance carry an upper limit? I believe my car
Its not fair on those running normal business having these risks alongside >>>>them.
insurance is capped at ?10m in any claim for property damage. Also,
would the occupier of the unit involved be liable for damage to the >>>remainder of the building? My understanding is that unless fault or >>>negligence can be shown, a fire would be classed as accidental damage
so the person's own insurer would be responsible.
your neighbour's property even if it originated elsewhere but in
practice generally leads those downwind (or their insurers if
applicable) of the originator of the nuisance acting together rather
than suing in series. Being accidental doesn't get you out of a claim
if e.g. your tank bursts and it floods your neighbour.
I think it does unless fault or negligence can be established (on the
balance of probabilities). Absent fault or negligence, the damage is >accidental and one for your own insurers.
In message <10p1c3k$3aj9s$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:36 on Fri, 13 Mar
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 13/03/2026 13:11, Roland Perry wrote:
Oh and don't say ""25yrs ago" too loud, because quite a lot can
happen to a building in the interim.
I doubt that much has been done to the roof of Central Station in the
last 25 years.
My impression was there could have been work done on it in 2014.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson ><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n1i8jfFle1uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:52:31 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10ouj0j$23bn4$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:36:03 on Thu, 12 Mar >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
[MSM]
The use of the term has evolved. Didn?t used to be pejorative but is now.
But not when ***I*** use the expression.
Meanings do change over time though, for much of my early life gay meant >>>> being bright and cheerful
Indeed, there used to be a canal hire company, in Shropshire I think,
called "Gay Boats".
Back in the early 1970s (they may still exist) there was a kayak building >>company called Gaybo. It was owned(?) by a canoeist called Gay Goldsmith. >>I gather he soon afterwards reverted to his given name of Graham.
P.S. And Gaybo does still exist, at least until recently: >><https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00937411> >><https://www.paddlerguide.com/gaybo-limited-takes-ownership-of-kayak-brand-wave-sport/>
Sam
There's a company in, I think, the Palmers Green/Wood Green area
called Sambo's Tyres. I dare say there's a good explanation but I
wouldn't use that as a trade name these days.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 18:41:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10p1c3k$3aj9s$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:36 on Fri, 13 MarThe architect who is currently making noises appears to have been
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 13/03/2026 13:11, Roland Perry wrote:
Oh and don't say ""25yrs ago" too loud, because quite a lot can
happen to a building in the interim.
I doubt that much has been done to the roof of Central Station in the
last 25 years.
My impression was there could have been work done on it in 2014.
involved in refurbishment of the station "more than 25 years ago"
according to the Weegie Herald - https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25919253.glasgow-central-station-iconic-roof-will-need-rebuilt/
(paywalled but it can be seen in the first sentence)
Is your tap brass?
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better >>>>>than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>>drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 22:09:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <n1jevcFr8liU1@mid.individual.net>, at 21:47:24 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>> via a handpump?
People have been very keen lately to point out that the meaning of some >>words changes over time. And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now meansNo, it really does not.
served from the tap in a horizontal barrel.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p20q6$3kp4f$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:49:58 on Fri, 13 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Similarly, he automatically denigrates experts even when he knows
nothing about them. Except of course, the ones he sleeps with.
That's definitely libellous.
[Recliner: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sosumi.mp3>]
I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi>
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building
that not many of them had insurance either.
In message <n1jm0vFsap2U1@mid.individual.net>, at 23:47:43 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Is your tap brass?
I believe so, yes. It's probably 50+ yrs old.
ps I disagree with you about the modern meaning of "cask ale", but did
have a nice pint of hand-pumped London Pride yesterday.
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 on
Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better >>>>>> than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>> they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>> has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>>> drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least having done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to see apart from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that extent a bit disappointing).
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 on
Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better >>>>>>than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>>they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>>has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>>>drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least
having done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to
see apart from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that extent
a bit disappointing).
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 on
Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better >>>>>>than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>>they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>>has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>>>drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least
having done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to
see apart from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that extent
a bit disappointing).
In message <n1jm0vFsap2U1@mid.individual.net>, at 23:47:43 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Is your tap brass?
I believe so, yes. It's probably 50+ yrs old.
ps I disagree with you about the modern meaning of "cask ale", but did
have a nice pint of hand-pumped London Pride yesterday.
In message <eicark1a7evak7uvs1k2i0s6p01il0ckdo@4ax.com>, at 10:03:18 on
Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 22:09:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <n1jevcFr8liU1@mid.individual.net>, at 21:47:24 on Fri, 13No, it really does not.
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>>> via a handpump?
People have been very keen lately to point out that the meaning of some
words changes over time. And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means
served from the tap in a horizontal barrel.
Then there's numerous pubs you need to visit to tell them they've got
the modern meaning wrong.
On 09/03/2026 18:54, Alan Lee wrote:
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow
people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good
barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a
planned slow introduction of service could restart.
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >use.
All info above was in the 5pm news on Radio Scotland if anyone wants to
hear it.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 09/03/2026 18:54, Alan Lee wrote:
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow
people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good
barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd
be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a >>> planned slow introduction of service could restart.
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
All info above was in the 5pm news on Radio Scotland if anyone wants to
hear it.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 09/03/2026 18:54, Alan Lee wrote:
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open >>>> the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow >>>> people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good
barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd >>>> be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a >>>> planned slow introduction of service could restart.
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>> use.
All info above was in the 5pm news on Radio Scotland if anyone wants to
hear it.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
How good is the selective door controls? Would it be easier to block off
the front portion of the train while in Central than undergo a major >exercise in removing vehicles from the set.
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 16:59:32 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 09/03/2026 18:54, Alan Lee wrote:
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open >>>>> the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow >>>>> people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good >>>>> barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd >>>>> be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a >>>>> planned slow introduction of service could restart.
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >>>> Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of >>>> the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >>>> platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>>> use.
All info above was in the 5pm news on Radio Scotland if anyone wants to >>>> hear it.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
How good is the selective door controls? Would it be easier to block off
the front portion of the train while in Central than undergo a major
exercise in removing vehicles from the set.
But would there be space for a train of that length at all? That was
my question
On 15/03/2026 17:01, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 16:59:32 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 09/03/2026 18:54, Alan Lee wrote:
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open >>>>>> the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow >>>>>> people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good >>>>>> barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd >>>>>> be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a >>>>>> planned slow introduction of service could restart.
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >>>>> Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of >>>>> the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >>>>> platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >>>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>>>> use.
All info above was in the 5pm news on Radio Scotland if anyone wants to >>>>> hear it.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
How good is the selective door controls? Would it be easier to block off >>> the front portion of the train while in Central than undergo a major
exercise in removing vehicles from the set.
But would there be space for a train of that length at all? That was
my question
Probably foul the station throat, can't remember the layout.
On 2026-03-15 06:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n1jm0vFsap2U1@mid.individual.net>, at 23:47:43 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Is your tap brass?
I believe so, yes. It's probably 50+ yrs old.
ps I disagree with you about the modern meaning of "cask ale", but
did have a nice pint of hand-pumped London Pride yesterday.
Also see:
https://members.camra.org.uk/learn-discover/the-basics/what-is-cask-cond >itioned-ale/
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <eicark1a7evak7uvs1k2i0s6p01il0ckdo@4ax.com>, at 10:03:18 on
Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 22:09:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <n1jevcFr8liU1@mid.individual.net>, at 21:47:24 on Fri, 13No, it really does not.
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>>>> via a handpump?
People have been very keen lately to point out that the meaning of some >>>> words changes over time. And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means
served from the tap in a horizontal barrel.
Then there's numerous pubs you need to visit to tell them they've got
the modern meaning wrong.
This is from the BDA an association of equipment suppliers to the pub and >brewery industry and is basically an installation manual.
<https://www.bfbi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/22660_bda-installati >on-manual-4-bfbi-update-master-final-2018-completed-.pdf>
Section 16 covers Cask Beer dispence.
It is quite clear that the term Cask Beer or Ale has some call it isn?t >confined to your attempt to redefine it to be solely gravity dispense
and is just another example of you upon on a visit to a couple of pubs
that may have gravity dispense that are far outnumbered by those that
pump it from cellar to bar ,an old tap you have acquired and a quick
tour around a brewery makes you a greater expert than those who work in
and supply the industry itself. And now you will argue till you are
blue in the face that you are right and the rest of the world and them
are wrong. Its actually quite a nasty characteristic and as was
pointed out recently quite Trumponian .
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23
on Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as >>>>>>>"better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>>> they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>>> has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>>>> drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>> via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >>nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least
having done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to
see apart from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that
extent a bit disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 06:25:28 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 on >>Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as "better >>>>>>>than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>>>they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>>>has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>>>>drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>>via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >>nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least
having done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to
see apart from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that extent
a bit disappointing).
This is customer-facing.
https://www.chefandbrewer.com/humble-bumblings/cask-ale-guide
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 09/03/2026 18:54, Alan Lee wrote:
In the meantime,in a couple of days, it may, just, be possible to open
the Gourock/Largs/Ayr lines which use the Western platforms, and allow
people to use the Western entrances, but you'd need some pretty good
barriers to stop people heading to the Eastern side, hence I think it'd >>> be shut for another week to allow the investigations to continue, then a >>> planned slow introduction of service could restart.
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
All info above was in the 5pm news on Radio Scotland if anyone wants to
hear it.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
On 13/03/2026 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <6a58rkhn1uum01e9uv9g52cv0pdkfbaniv@4ax.com>, at 13:53:18
on Fri, 13 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 13:29:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>Because people complain if the link doesn't work, and the
Latest update from Network Rail, reported Main Stream Media:
Which publication?
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ Building handed to Glasgow City Council by fire services.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ Engineers have not identified significant structural damage.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ Damage to the station itself, mainly from water
ingress, appears
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ to be contained to a small office on the Union St side, and a
ÿÿÿÿÿÿ small part of the glazed area directly above it.
If you actually respected the media and copyright, you'd include a
link to the story. But you never do ? why not?
conversation gets entirely out of control as a result.
[snip]maged-building-near-glasgow-central-begins/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/national/25934496.demolition-fire-da
So the man who said the whole roof would need substantial repairs, >>turned out to wrong.
He didn't say it would, he said it may.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 18:41:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10p1c3k$3aj9s$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:36 on Fri, 13 Mar >>2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:The architect who is currently making noises appears to have been
On 13/03/2026 13:11, Roland Perry wrote:
Oh and don't say ""25yrs ago" too loud, because quite a lot can
happen to a building in the interim.
I doubt that much has been done to the roof of Central Station in the >>>last 25 years.
My impression was there could have been work done on it in 2014.
involved in refurbishment of the station "more than 25 years ago"
according to the Weegie Herald - >https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25919253.glasgow-central-station-ico >nic-roof-will-need-rebuilt/
(paywalled but it can be seen in the first sentence)
In message <on1crkl3u7qjecqrg8hcluvf3kf467et4n@4ax.com>, at 01:14:41 on
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 18:41:15 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10p1c3k$3aj9s$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:36 on Fri, 13 MarThe architect who is currently making noises appears to have been
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 13/03/2026 13:11, Roland Perry wrote:
Oh and don't say ""25yrs ago" too loud, because quite a lot can
happen to a building in the interim.
I doubt that much has been done to the roof of Central Station in the
last 25 years.
My impression was there could have been work done on it in 2014.
involved in refurbishment of the station "more than 25 years ago"
according to the Weegie Herald -
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25919253.glasgow-central-station-ico
nic-roof-will-need-rebuilt/
(paywalled but it can be seen in the first sentence)
The issue here is whether or not it *will* need to be *rebuilt*.
Not even "*may*" need to be rebuilt.
Currently, this seems very unlikely according to the Network Rail
engineers who have actually inspected it.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
In message <10p62d0$ulqo$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:38 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23
on Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as
"better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>>>> they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>>>> has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft >>>>>>> drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>>> via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use
nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least
having done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to
see apart from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that
extent a bit disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
They are allowed to call it whatever they like. I'm discussing what
other pub staff call it.
In message <n1nq40FhghiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:22:06 on Sun, 15
Mar 2026, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> remarked:
On 2026-03-15 06:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n1jm0vFsap2U1@mid.individual.net>, at 23:47:43 on Fri, 13
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Is your tap brass?
ÿI believe so, yes. It's probably 50+ yrs old.
ÿps I disagree with you about the modern meaning of "cask ale", but
didÿ have a nice pint of hand-pumped London Pride yesterday.
Also see:
https://members.camra.org.uk/learn-discover/the-basics/what-is-cask-cond
itioned-ale/
Do CAMRA run training courses for modern publicans, regarding exactly, precisely, what to call each kind of drink they serve?
No, I didn't think so.
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building
that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the
true value of the business?
This must be the most amusing thread for a while!
nib
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building
that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the
true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building
that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>> use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >rather than mid week.
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >>>> Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of >>>> the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >>>> platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>>> use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >>main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >>they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western >>side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >>rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >>>> Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of >>>> the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >>>> platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>>> use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 & >>2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line >>to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >>main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >>they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western >>side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >>rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >> >>>> Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of >> >>>> the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >> >>>> platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >> >>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 & >> >>2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line >> >>to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >> >>main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >> >>they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >> >>rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >> >>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >> >>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 & >> >>2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line >> >>to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >> >>main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >> >>they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western >> >>side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >> >>but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >> >>rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
Are there any?
Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow
Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com><alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
chance ofCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the
The otherthe Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?).
even ifplatforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance,
cleared forthe station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
line2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell
weeks, theto these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
Westernthey said they could possibly start a limited service using the
23rd,side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>> >>but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular Scotrail service to Queen Street.
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>> >wrote:<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
chance ofCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the
The otherthe Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?).
even ifplatforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance,
cleared forthe station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>> >>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>> >>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
weeks, the2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
Westernthey said they could possibly start a limited service using the
23rd,side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>> >>but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>> >>main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building
that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>> true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle
East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
Our co-writer doesn't want information/suggestions.
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >>>> Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of >>>> the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >>>> platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>>> use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they bea
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>> wrote:<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
chance ofCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the
The otherthe Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?).
even ifplatforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance,
cleared forthe station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
weeks, the2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
Westernthey said they could possibly start a limited service using the
23rd,side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow
Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular
Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
On 16/03/2026 09:08, Ulf Kutzner wrote:I've just seen this article the Guardian. It seems that even a œ100,000 insurance policy is unlikely to cover those stranded.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building >>>>>> that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>>> true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle >>> East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
Our co-writer doesn't want information/suggestions.
I've just looked at my travel insurance and I'm not at all sure I would I
be covered if I was stranded at a stopover.
My policy is Europe...ÿ But that includes Scandinavia and Turkey.ÿ I do travel to Turkey almost annually and policies which include Turkey as
Europe always seem to work out cheaper.
In spite of the USA and Isreal's wars I see no reason not to visit
Turkey again this Autumn.
Certes <Certes@example.org> posted:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>> >wrote:<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
chance ofCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the
The otherthe Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?).
even ifplatforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>> >>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance,
cleared forthe station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>> >>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>> >>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
weeks, the2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
Westernthey said they could possibly start a limited service using the
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>> >>main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
The Kings Cross - Quenn Street services call at Falkirk High.
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>> wrote:<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
chance ofCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the
The otherthe Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?).
even ifplatforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance,
cleared forthe station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
weeks, the2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
Westernthey said they could possibly start a limited service using the
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular
Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level
might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor
whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting
extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p62d0$ulqo$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:38 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23
on Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as
"better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely drinkable beer >>>>>>>> they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because "beer" >>>>>>>> has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider or soft
drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >>>>>> via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use
nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least
having done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to >>>> see apart from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that
extent a bit disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
They are allowed to call it whatever they like. I'm discussing what
other pub staff call it.
No,
what you actually said was:
Trolleybus: The correct code word these days is cask ale.
RP: Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than >via a handpump?
RP: And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means served from the tap in a >horizontal barrel.
In message <aNCtR.263$JBma.65@fx03.ams1>, at 18:21:58 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p62d0$ulqo$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:38 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 >>>>> onÿ Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as >>>>>>>>>> "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely
drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because >>>>>>>>> "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider >>>>>>>>> or soft
drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask,
rather than
via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use
nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least
havingÿ done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to >>>>> see apartÿ from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that
extent a bitÿ disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
They are allowed to call it whatever they like. I'm discussing what
other pub staff call it.
No,
Actually, yes.
what you actually said was:
Trolleybus: The correct code word these days is cask ale.
RP: Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather
than
via a handpump?
RP: And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means served from the tap in a
horizontal barrel.
Indeed.
On 16/03/2026 12:42, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aNCtR.263$JBma.65@fx03.ams1>, at 18:21:58 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p62d0$ulqo$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:38 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 >>>>>> onÿ Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as >>>>>>>>>>> "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely
drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now,
because "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not >>>>>>>>>> cider or soft
drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask,
rather than
via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >>>>>> nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least >>>>>> havingÿ done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost
nothing to
see apartÿ from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that
extent a bitÿ disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
They are allowed to call it whatever they like. I'm discussing what
other pub staff call it.
No,
Actually, yes.
what you actually said was:
Trolleybus: The correct code word these days is cask ale.
RP: Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask,
rather than
via a handpump?
RP: And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means served from the tap in a
horizontal barrel.
Indeed.
Shock, horror. Roland and Recliner agreeing! Hang out the bunting everyone!
On 16/03/2026 12:42, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aNCtR.263$JBma.65@fx03.ams1>, at 18:21:58 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p62d0$ulqo$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:38 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 >>>>>> onÿ Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as >>>>>>>>>>> "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely
drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because >>>>>>>>>> "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider >>>>>>>>>> or soft
drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask,
rather than
via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >>>>>> nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least >>>>>> havingÿ done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to >>>>>> see apartÿ from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that
extent a bitÿ disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
They are allowed to call it whatever they like. I'm discussing what
other pub staff call it.
No,
Actually, yes.
what you actually said was:
Trolleybus: The correct code word these days is cask ale.
RP: Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather
than
via a handpump?
RP: And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means served from the tap in a
horizontal barrel.
Indeed.
Shock, horror. Roland and Recliner agreeing! Hang out the bunting everyone!
On 16/03/2026 12:42, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aNCtR.263$JBma.65@fx03.ams1>, at 18:21:58 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p62d0$ulqo$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:38 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 >>>>>> onÿ Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as >>>>>>>>>>> "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely
drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because >>>>>>>>>> "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider >>>>>>>>>> or soft
drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask,
rather than
via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >>>>>> nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least >>>>>> havingÿ done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to >>>>>> see apartÿ from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that
extent a bitÿ disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
They are allowed to call it whatever they like. I'm discussing what
other pub staff call it.
No,
Actually, yes.
what you actually said was:
Trolleybus: The correct code word these days is cask ale.
RP: Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather
than
via a handpump?
RP: And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means served from the tap in a
horizontal barrel.
Indeed.
Shock, horror. Roland and Recliner agreeing! Hang out the bunting everyone!
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 12:42, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aNCtR.263$JBma.65@fx03.ams1>, at 18:21:58 on Sun, 15 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p62d0$ulqo$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:41:38 on Sun, 15 Mar >>>>> 2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/03/2026 06:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <ogcarkdpjcqmpa5526205lm30q5ml6qpen@4ax.com>, at 10:02:23 >>>>>>> onÿ Sat, 14 Mar 2026, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
Mmmm, many years since I had London Pride but I rated it as >>>>>>>>>>>> "better
than most" but not "excellent".
I had a pint last week, because it was the only vaguely >>>>>>>>>>> drinkable beer
they had. Actually, one often has to ask for "ale" now, because >>>>>>>>>>> "beer"
has become synonymous with lager (ie something that's not cider >>>>>>>>>>> or soft
drinks) to anyone serving who is under 30yrs old.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, >>>>>>>>> rather than
via a handpump?
No, it's the trade term for what tourists call real ale.
What I'm talking about is the customer-facing wording that pubs use >>>>>>> nowadays. I'm familiar with what the trade calls things, not least >>>>>>> havingÿ done a tour of the Adnams brewery last year (almost nothing to >>>>>>> see apartÿ from stainless steel and computer screens, and to that >>>>>>> extent a bitÿ disappointing).
https://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/pubs/the-blossoms-heaviley/
Photo of the bar, and "It boasts an excellent range of cask ales".
They are allowed to call it whatever they like. I'm discussing what
other pub staff call it.
No,
Actually, yes.
what you actually said was:
Trolleybus: The correct code word these days is cask ale.
RP: Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather >>>> than
via a handpump?
RP: And in the pub trade "Cask Ale" now means served from the tap in a >>>> horizontal barrel.
Indeed.
Shock, horror. Roland and Recliner agreeing! Hang out the bunting everyone!
It?ll never last.
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>> >>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >>> >>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 & >>> >>2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line >>> >>to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >>> >>main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >>> >>they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western >>> >>side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>> >>but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >>> >>rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >Scotrail service to Queen Street.
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a >Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>> wrote:<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
chance ofCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the
The otherthe Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?).
even ifplatforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance,
cleared forthe station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
weeks, the2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
Westernthey said they could possibly start a limited service using the
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular
Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level
might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor
whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central.
On 16/03/2026 09:14, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with >>>>> Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of >>>>> the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other >>>>> platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >>>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for >>>>> use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they bea
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 & >>> 2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line >>> to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >>> main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >>> they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >>> rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I would imagine they will prune all services to the capacity available.
If they reopen the station with limited entrances (and exits) it will
have to be managed in such a way that a satisfactory emergency
evacuation is possible.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >>>>>>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 & >>>>>> 2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line >>>>>> to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the >>>>>> main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so >>>>>> they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western >>>>>> side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd, >>>>>> rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow
Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular
Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly
regal journey)
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:40:30 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>> wrote:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
cleared forCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the >>>>>> chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). >>>>>> The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, >>>>>> even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
weeks, the2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the >>>>>> Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level >>> might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor >>> whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting
extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central.
Is there capacity to terminate then turn each of these trains at
Motherwell?
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if >>>>>>>>> the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western >>>>>>> side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular
Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly
regal journey)
A Lumo 5-car 80x would fit into Queen St; I?m not sure a 9-car LNER Azuma would, at least not in all the platforms.
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:40:30 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
trains. 1 &Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the >>>>>>> chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). >>>>>>> The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, >>>>>>> even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been >>>>>>> cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
flattened, so2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>>>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of >>>>>>> weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the >>>>>>> Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level >>>> might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor >>>> whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting
extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central.
Is there capacity to terminate then turn each of these trains at
Motherwell?
No, they mostly seem to be reversing in Polmadie Depot:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:MTH/2026-03-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>> wrote:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>>>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly
regal journey)
A Lumo 5-car 80x would fit into Queen St; I?m not sure a 9-car LNER Azuma
would, at least not in all the platforms.
The longest Azumas that will fit into any Queen St platform are the 5-cars.
A notional 7-car Azuma would just about fit into platforms 3, 4, 8 and 9.
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:57:10 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:Going back to Central, could additional trains be diverted through the low-level station - not Pendolinos obviously (*)
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly
regal journey)
A Lumo 5-car 80x would fit into Queen St; I?m not sure a 9-car LNER Azuma >>> would, at least not in all the platforms.
The longest Azumas that will fit into any Queen St platform are the 5-cars. >> A notional 7-car Azuma would just about fit into platforms 3, 4, 8 and 9.
(*) A ScotRail employee once told me that on his first day at the
low-level station he received a call from a colleague to say that a
Pendolino was about to pass through the low-level station and could he
tell all the passengers to stand back from the platform edge.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:45:32 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:40:30 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
flattened, so
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has >>>>>>>> started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the >>>>>>>> chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). >>>>>>>> The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, >>>>>>>> even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been >>>>>>>> cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length >>>>>>>> trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>>>>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of >>>>>>>> weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the >>>>>>>> Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >>>>>> Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate >>>>> the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level >>>>> might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor >>>>> whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting >>>> extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central.
Is there capacity to terminate then turn each of these trains at
Motherwell?
No, they mostly seem to be reversing in Polmadie Depot:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:MTH/2026-03-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT
But apart from the reversing, would it not take time to empty the
train then refill it?
On 16/03/2026 15:06, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:57:10 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:Going back to Central, could additional trains be diverted through the
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly >>>>> regal journey)
A Lumo 5-car 80x would fit into Queen St; I?m not sure a 9-car LNER Azuma >>>> would, at least not in all the platforms.
The longest Azumas that will fit into any Queen St platform are the 5-cars. >>> A notional 7-car Azuma would just about fit into platforms 3, 4, 8 and 9. >>>
low-level station - not Pendolinos obviously (*)
(*) A ScotRail employee once told me that on his first day at the
low-level station he received a call from a colleague to say that a
Pendolino was about to pass through the low-level station and could he
tell all the passengers to stand back from the platform edge.
I had wondered that, but suspect the platform lengths were designed for >suburban (i.e. shorter) stock so selective opening could be required.
But I did join an excursion train there one year - SRPS stock / Class 37
and a trip to Mallaig (or Kyle - memory getting poor!) so a longer train
may fit.
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:45:32 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>Well they are managing it.
wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:40:30 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:Is there capacity to terminate then turn each of these trains at
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a >>>>> Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting >>>>> extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central. >>>>
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
line
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has >>>>>>>>> started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the >>>>>>>>> chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). >>>>>>>>> The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, >>>>>>>>> even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been >>>>>>>>> cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length >>>>>>>>> trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of >>>>>>>>> weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is >>>>>>>>> flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the >>>>>>>>> Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>>>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh? >>>>>>>
Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >>>>>>> Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate >>>>>> the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level >>>>>> might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor >>>>>> whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
Motherwell?
No, they mostly seem to be reversing in Polmadie Depot:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:MTH/2026-03-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT
But apart from the reversing, would it not take time to empty the
train then refill it?
Have a look at
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/motherwell/london-euston/
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:22:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:45:32 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>Well they are managing it.
wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:40:30 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:Is there capacity to terminate then turn each of these trains at
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a >>>>>> Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting >>>>>> extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central. >>>>>
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>>>
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
line
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has >>>>>>>>>> started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the >>>>>>>>>> chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). >>>>>>>>>> The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, >>>>>>>>>> even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been >>>>>>>>>> cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length >>>>>>>>>> trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell
23rd,to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of >>>>>>>>>> weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is >>>>>>>>>> flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the >>>>>>>>>> Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh? >>>>>>>>
Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >>>>>>>> Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular
Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via >>>>>>> Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate >>>>>>> the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level
might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor
whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
Motherwell?
No, they mostly seem to be reversing in Polmadie Depot:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:MTH/2026-03-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT
But apart from the reversing, would it not take time to empty the
train then refill it?
Have a look at
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/motherwell/london-euston/
I understood this was a reduced service for the reason I suggested.
Also, are all TransPennine trains not cancelled?
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by
everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:45:32 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:40:30 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
flattened, so
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has >>>>>>>> started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the >>>>>>>> chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). >>>>>>>> The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, >>>>>>>> even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been >>>>>>>> cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length >>>>>>>> trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>>>>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of >>>>>>>> weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the >>>>>>>> Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >>>>>> Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate >>>>> the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level >>>>> might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor >>>>> whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting >>>> extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central.
Is there capacity to terminate then turn each of these trains at
Motherwell?
No, they mostly seem to be reversing in Polmadie Depot:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:MTH/2026-03-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT
But apart from the reversing, would it not take time to empty the
train then refill it?
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is
everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his >>>misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is >>impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct
from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
In message <10p98ep$23l0s$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:43:21 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is
ÿeveryone?s definition, and is as usual defending his
misinterpretation.
ÿIt's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply
pointing out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
That's the marketing misconception I'm challenging.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:40:30 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:There?s already an hourly Euston to Motherwell Avanti service, with a
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>> 2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on >>>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> >>>>>>> wrote:What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh?
<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
started, with
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has
cleared forCentral Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the >>>>>> chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). >>>>>> The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, >>>>>> even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major >>>>>>>>>> damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully >>>>>>>>>> toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been
trains. 1 &use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length
weeks, the2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell >>>>>> line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of
flattened, somain entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the >>>>>> Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available, >>>>>>>> but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the >>>>>>>> main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday >>>>>> 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh, >>>>>
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via
Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
It would be nice to route the WCML into Queen Street, perhaps via
Coatbridge and Stepps, but we have neither the capacity nor the
electricity. Better to divert some trains to Edinburgh and terminate
the rest at Motherwell.
An express shuttle from Carstairs and/or Motherwell to Central low level >>> might be a useful addition but I'm not sure whether there are slots, nor >>> whether enough of the idle units are suitable for that route.
Scotrail connection to Glasgow Central low level. Why bother diverting
extra WCML services to Edinburgh? 5hrs 24mins from Euston to Central.
Is there capacity to terminate then turn each of these trains at
Motherwell?
On 16/03/2026 16:34, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10p98ep$23l0s$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:43:21 on Mon, 16
Mar 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is
ÿeveryone?s definition, and is as usual defending his >>>>>misinterpretation.
ÿIt's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is >>>>impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply
pointing out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered
to the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
That's the marketing misconception I'm challenging.
It's not a marketing concept, it's the real world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people
in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
In message <10p9eir$261lb$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:27:55 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 16/03/2026 16:34, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10p98ep$23l0s$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:43:21 on Mon, 16
Marÿ 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is >>>>>> ÿeveryone?s definition, and is as usual defending his
misinterpretation.
ÿIt's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply
pointing out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered
toÿ the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
ÿThat's the marketing misconception I'm challenging.
It's not a marketing concept, it's the real world.
The world is changing.
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is byIt's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct
from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost
certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people
in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people
in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
On 16/03/2026 17:42, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10p9eir$261lb$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:27:55 on Mon, 16
Mar 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 16/03/2026 16:34, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10p98ep$23l0s$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:43:21 on Mon, 16 >>>>Marÿ 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 >>>>>>Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale >>>>>>>is ÿeveryone?s definition, and is as usual defending his >>>>>>>misinterpretation.
ÿIt's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is >>>>>>impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply >>>>>>pointing out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered >>>>>toÿ the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
ÿThat's the marketing misconception I'm challenging.
It's not a marketing concept, it's the real world.
The world is changing.
But not in your direction.
I get two barrels of beer, one goes on the stillage at the back of one
bar and is served direct from the cask. Th other is on stillage round
the corner and is connected to a hand-pump in another bar. Same beer in
each barrel. This is an actual user-case.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct
from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost
certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people
in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong,
and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon
find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a
very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they
serve their cask ale.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct
from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost
certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people
in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you
, more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or >maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the >cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and >understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us >we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong,
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they
serve their cask ale.
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building
that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle >East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their ?20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>> from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>> certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or
maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the
cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and
understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us >> we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong,
and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon
find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the >> bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a
very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong >> one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they
serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
In message <10p9fl0$26iqd$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:46:08 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
I've never seen any indication that recliner has a partner.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>> from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>> certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or
maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the
cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and
understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us >> we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong,
and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon
find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the >> bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a
very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong >> one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they
serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:18:01 +0000, ColinR
<rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 15:06, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:57:10 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:Going back to Central, could additional trains be diverted through the
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>> wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow >>>>>>> Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh? >>>>>>>
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >>>>>>> Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly >>>>>> regal journey)
A Lumo 5-car 80x would fit into Queen St; I?m not sure a 9-car LNER Azuma >>>>> would, at least not in all the platforms.
The longest Azumas that will fit into any Queen St platform are the 5-cars.
A notional 7-car Azuma would just about fit into platforms 3, 4, 8 and 9. >>>>
low-level station - not Pendolinos obviously (*)
(*) A ScotRail employee once told me that on his first day at the
low-level station he received a call from a colleague to say that a
Pendolino was about to pass through the low-level station and could he
tell all the passengers to stand back from the platform edge.
I had wondered that, but suspect the platform lengths were designed for
suburban (i.e. shorter) stock so selective opening could be required.
But I did join an excursion train there one year - SRPS stock / Class 37
and a trip to Mallaig (or Kyle - memory getting poor!) so a longer train
may fit.
I wasn't advocating sending WCML trains to the low-level but wondering
if there are any ScotRail services that could be diverted to relieve
pressure on the upper level.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>>> from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have >>>>> come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the >>>>> cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>>> certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or >>> maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the >>> cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and
understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us >>> we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong, >>> and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >>> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon >>> find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the >>> bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >>> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a >>> very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong >>> one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they
serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
<innocent mode=?wide-eyed?> But surely the picture of Roland pulling a pint of Sparta on a hand pump proves that Sparta isn?t a cask ale at all. </innocent>
Sam
On 16/03/2026 15:24, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:18:01 +0000, ColinR
<rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 15:06, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:57:10 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:Going back to Central, could additional trains be diverted through the >>>> low-level station - not Pendolinos obviously (*)
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>> wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on
Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>>>
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to >>>>>>>> Glasgow
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at >>>>>>>>>> 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee
<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee
<alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections >>>>>>>>>>>>>> once the
demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main >>>>>>>>>>>>>> entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could >>>>>>>>>>>>> they be
shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length >>>>>>>>>>>> trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the >>>>>>>>>>>> Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I
mentioned in
another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number >>>>>>>>>>>> of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is >>>>>>>>>>>> flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using >>>>>>>>>>>> the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms >>>>>>>>>>>> available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station >>>>>>>>>>>> until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/ >>>>>>>>>>>> Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you >>>>>>>>>>> give
priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to >>>>>>>>>> Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh? >>>>>>>>
Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >>>>>>>> Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the >>>>>>>> regular
Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly >>>>>>> regal journey)
A Lumo 5-car 80x would fit into Queen St; I?m not sure a 9-car
LNER Azuma
would, at least not in all the platforms.
The longest Azumas that will fit into any Queen St platform are the >>>>> 5-cars.
A notional 7-car Azuma would just about fit into platforms 3, 4, 8
and 9.
(*) A ScotRail employee once told me that on his first day at the
low-level station he received a call from a colleague to say that a
Pendolino was about to pass through the low-level station and could he >>>> tell all the passengers to stand back from the platform edge.
I had wondered that, but suspect the platform lengths were designed for
suburban (i.e. shorter) stock so selective opening could be required.
But I did join an excursion train there one year - SRPS stock / Class 37 >>> and a trip to Mallaig (or Kyle - memory getting poor!) so a longer train >>> may fit.
I wasn't advocating sending WCML trains to the low-level but wondering
if there are any ScotRail services that could be diverted to relieve
pressure on the upper level.
Are we still discussing Queen Street here?
Queen Street high level was closed several times for major engineering
works about 10 years ago, notably for 20 weeks in 2016.ÿ Many of its
services were diverted to Queen Street low level.
<https://web.archive.org/web/20160114093135/http://www.scotrail.co.uk/ QueenStreetTunnel>
All I'm doing is responding here, when people can't simply bringMaybe, just maybe... time to take that advice to heart?
themselves to agree to disagree, and let the matter drop.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:44:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on"Acts of war" and similar are a fairly standard exclusion for
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building
that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>> true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle
East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
non-specialised insurance. Some of the stranded people seem to have
been spectacularly ignorant of events in the Middle East and/or the
usual limits of insurance.
On 16/03/2026 20:36, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:44:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on"Acts of war" and similar are a fairly standard exclusion forI'
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building >>>>>> that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>>> true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle >>> East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
non-specialised insurance. Some of the stranded people seem to have
been spectacularly ignorant of events in the Middle East and/or the
usual limits of insurance.
What would you suggest they do?ÿ Many people book their travel months in advance; when people booked their flights Iran was likely a mere twinkle
in Trump's eye and he was still planning on invading Greenland.ÿ When
the boarded their outbound flights, maybe there was rumour he was going
to do something in Iran, but his actual actions and exact timing were a surprise to pretty much everyone.ÿ If you think you knew exactly what
was going to happen, you were evidently a lot better informed than the
UK government, let alone the average tourist.
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
"Acts of war" and similar are a fairly standard exclusion for
non-specialised insurance. Some of the stranded people seem to have
been spectacularly ignorant of events in the Middle East and/or the
usual limits of insurance.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his >>>>>>>misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>>> from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have >>>>> come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the >>>>> cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>>> certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or >>> maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the >>> cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and
understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us >>> we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong, >>> and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >>> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon >>> find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the >>> bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >>> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a >>> very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong >>> one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they
serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
<innocent mode=?wide-eyed?> But surely the picture of Roland pulling a pint >of Sparta on a hand pump proves that Sparta isn?t a cask ale at all. ></innocent>
On 2026-03-16 11:26 a.m., Roland Perry wrote:
All I'm doing is responding here, when people can't simply bring >>themselves to agree to disagree, and let the matter drop.
Maybe, just maybe... time to take that advice to heart?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p9fl0$26iqd$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:46:08 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
I've never seen any indication that recliner has a partner.
Deliberate diverting whoosh there?
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they >>serve their cask ale.
It's in a village on the Essex/Cambs border. They use hand-pumps. I'm
going there this evening and will see what they think about the
terminology.
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
That's interesting. Most legacy airlines only used to accept bookings aIf your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might >>cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
Months0
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his >>>>>>>misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>>> from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have >>>>> come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the >>>>> cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>>> certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or >>> maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the >>> cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and
understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us >>> we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong, >>> and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >>> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon >>> find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the >>> bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >>> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a >>> very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong >>> one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they
serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
Ta, he didn?t want to give the name or exact location in his last reply.
The Camra entry for it up dated on Feb 19th this year says it has Cask Ale. >and for those who have Facebook their page shows they had a Cask Ale week >last September with a picture of hand pumps on the bar.
Roland says he his going there tonight, As it is listed as not being open >till Wednesday presumably he must be attending a management or committee >meeting.
Perhaps he needs to add to the agenda a motion to get Camra to remove their >mention of cask ale or have the hand pumps removed and the beer brought
into the bar or staff traipse to the cellar/ beer-store to pour it so the >pub conforms to the definition of cask ale he is so anxious to insist is
now the modern one, can?t have the revived pub looking old fashioned or >Roland being wrong in front of his colleagues. I?ll look again in a month
, should be enough time to get things amended.
On 16/03/2026 15:24, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:18:01 +0000, ColinR
<rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 15:06, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 14:57:10 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:Going back to Central, could additional trains be diverted through the >>>> low-level station - not Pendolinos obviously (*)
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:46:47 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> >>>>>>> wrote:
In message <1773653940-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:39:00 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>>>
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:Are there any? Last time I looked the once-daily Kings Cross to Glasgow
In message <ucifrkd5ga73sfi7o69n5m6jjamak2a44v@4ax.com>, at 09:14:45 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:58:22 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 15/03/2026 16:52, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:23:28 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
And as a follow up, demolition of the ruined building has started, with
Central Station expected to be shut until Wednesday, with the chance of
the Western platforms being able to open from then (8 - 15?). The other
platforms ( 1 to 7 ) are subject to further inspections once the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> demolition has been finished.
Far too much masonry in the way to open up the main entrance, even if
the station building was found to be in sound condition - no major
damage has been found yet, so the omens are good for opening fully
toward the end of next week, once the main entrance has been cleared for
use.
Could Avanti Pendolino trains fit platforms 8-15? Could they be >>>>>>>>>>>>> shortened to make them fit?
9, 10 and 11 are possible to use for up to ~280 metre length trains. 1 &
2 are 279/292m. Track layout could allow access from the Motherwell line
to these platforms.
However, the problem is the entrances and exits as I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>>>> another post. The Union St. entrance has gone for a number of weeks, the
main entrance cannot be used until the damaged building is flattened, so
they said they could possibly start a limited service using the Western
side entrance - Hope St, not due to the amount of platforms available,
but the limited capacity to move people through the station until the
main entrance is opened, which is looking like next weekend/Monday 23rd,
rather than mid week.
If you were Network Rail / DfT / Transport Scotland would you give >>>>>>>>>>> priority to WCML services or local (ScotRail) services?
I'd be diverting as many as possible of the WCML services to Edinburgh,
What about ECML services to Glasgow (non-Central) via Edinburgh? >>>>>>>>
Central via Edinburgh service had been withdrawn.
Divert everything possible to Edinburgh (via Sheffield if not via >>>>>>>> Lockerbie). Perple wanting to get to Glasgow can then take the regular >>>>>>>> Scotrail service to Queen Street.
I'm booked on a Lumo train from Kings Cross to Queen Street (a truly >>>>>>> regal journey)
A Lumo 5-car 80x would fit into Queen St; I?m not sure a 9-car LNER Azuma
would, at least not in all the platforms.
The longest Azumas that will fit into any Queen St platform are the 5-cars.
A notional 7-car Azuma would just about fit into platforms 3, 4, 8 and 9. >>>>>
(*) A ScotRail employee once told me that on his first day at the
low-level station he received a call from a colleague to say that a
Pendolino was about to pass through the low-level station and could he >>>> tell all the passengers to stand back from the platform edge.
I had wondered that, but suspect the platform lengths were designed for
suburban (i.e. shorter) stock so selective opening could be required.
But I did join an excursion train there one year - SRPS stock / Class 37 >>> and a trip to Mallaig (or Kyle - memory getting poor!) so a longer train >>> may fit.
I wasn't advocating sending WCML trains to the low-level but wondering
if there are any ScotRail services that could be diverted to relieve
pressure on the upper level.
Are we still discussing Queen Street here?
Queen Street high level was closed several times for major engineering
works about 10 years ago, notably for 20 weeks in 2016. Many of its
services were diverted to Queen Street low level.
<https://web.archive.org/web/20160114093135/http://www.scotrail.co.uk/QueenStreetTunnel>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on
Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct
from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people
in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
In message <10p9fl0$26iqd$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:46:08 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
I've never seen any indication that recliner has a partner.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:16:23 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10p9fl0$26iqd$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:46:08 on Mon, 16 Mar >>2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
I've never seen any indication that recliner has a partner.
We can't all have girlfriends that designed every single piece of
technology, except for the parts you did.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 16:36:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is >>>>impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have >>>come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the >>>cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet >>>another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
I know the answer to this one!
Because, even more than usual, you are so obviously wrong yet even
more obstinate than usual in admitting it. It's very, very frustrating
and I don't know why you act like it. It doesn't make you happy and it >infuriates me and others.
In message <n1r3c5F2pkhU1@mid.individual.net>, at 19:18:29 on Mon, 16
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >>>> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon >>>> find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the
bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >>>> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a >>>> very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong
one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they >>>> serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
Ta, he didn?t want to give the name or exact location in his last reply.
I get criticised for what are allegedly over-verbose replies, and now
for allegedly too brief replies. Sounds like I can't win!
The Camra entry for it up dated on Feb 19th this year says it has Cask Ale. >> and for those who have Facebook their page shows they had a Cask Ale week
last September with a picture of hand pumps on the bar.
That's not relevant to my original comment. There isn't *one* *name* for
any of these things, handed down by some tin-pot dictator. People have
their own freedom. Sorry for pointing out, earlier what the result of
that is.
Roland says he his going there tonight, As it is listed as not being open
till Wednesday presumably he must be attending a management or committee
meeting.
It was the shareholders' AGM. Around 400 potential attendees, of which
about 50 showed up. You couldn't have fitted 50 in the pub itself, even
if it had been open (of course it would have been "closed for a private event" anyway).
Perhaps he needs to add to the agenda a motion to get Camra to remove their >> mention of cask ale or have the hand pumps removed and the beer brought
into the bar or staff traipse to the cellar/ beer-store to pour it so the >> pub conforms to the definition of cask ale he is so anxious to insist is
now the modern one, can?t have the revived pub looking old fashioned or
Roland being wrong in front of his colleagues. I?ll look again in a month >> , should be enough time to get things amended.
No, for all the reasons previously given. Can't you get it into your
head there's no one esclusive allowable expression for things. And that language chnges over time.
In message <10p9s7d$2bnk6$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:20:45 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his
misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand >>>>>> them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>>>> from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have >>>>>> come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the >>>>>> cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>>>> certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or >>>> maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the >>>> cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and >>>> understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us
we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong, >>>> and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >>>> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon >>>> find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the
bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >>>> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a >>>> very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong
one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they >>>> serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
<innocent mode=?wide-eyed?> But surely the picture of Roland pulling a pint >> of Sparta on a hand pump proves that Sparta isn?t a cask ale at all.
</innocent>
There's a whole spectrum of what pubs and breweries call their
beverages. My only point was that in my opinion increasingly "cask
ale" in their marketing means served direct from a barrel.
The "pulling a first pint" was the culmination of months of work helping
get the place on its feet and into the media (mainstream[tm] in this
case). And once again I seem to be the only person around here who is prepared to be myself, show myself.
Apart from yourself, who I have of course met in real life. It'll always
be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely,
knew I
was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't suggest we met
at the Cutter for a pint.
The "pulling a first pint" was the culmination of months of work helping
get the place on its feet and into the media (mainstream[tm] in this
case). And once again I seem to be the only person around here who is prepared to be myself, show myself.
No, for all the reasons previously given. Can't you get it into your
head there's no one esclusive allowable expression for things. And that language chnges over time.
be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely, knew I
was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't suggest we met
at the Cutter for a pint.
In message <10pad68$2haie$1@dont-email.me>, at 04:10:17 on Tue, 17 Mar
2026, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
What's happened to a lot of people is no "Plan B" for getting back home.
They assume the airlines will just re-book them, but with airspace
closed, many airlines suspending all operations in the region, and
official repatriation flights just a publicity stunt[tm], the best route
out currently is probably by road to Saudia Arabia, then a flight to
Turkey, then another flight from there.
On 16/03/2026 20:36, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:44:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on"Acts of war" and similar are a fairly standard exclusion for
Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building >>>>>> that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>>> true value of the business?
is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up
again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle >>> East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
non-specialised insurance. Some of the stranded people seem to have
been spectacularly ignorant of events in the Middle East and/or the
usual limits of insurance.
What would you suggest they do?ÿ Many people book their travel months in advance; when people booked their flights Iran was likely a mere twinkle
in Trump's eye and he was still planning on invading Greenland.ÿ When
the boarded their outbound flights, maybe there was rumour he was going
to do something in Iran, but his actual actions and exact timing were a surprise to pretty much everyone.ÿ If you think you knew exactly what
was going to happen, you were evidently a lot better informed than the
UK government, let alone the average tourist.
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
On 17/03/2026 02:10, Clank wrote:
On 16/03/2026 20:36, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:44:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on >>>> Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>"Acts of war" and similar are a fairly standard exclusion for
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance >>>>> is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building >>>>>>> that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>>>> true value of the business?
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up >>>>> again after a disaster.
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle >>>> East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in
the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums
out of pocket.
non-specialised insurance. Some of the stranded people seem to have
been spectacularly ignorant of events in the Middle East and/or the
usual limits of insurance.
What would you suggest they do?ÿ Many people book their travel months in
advance; when people booked their flights Iran was likely a mere twinkle
in Trump's eye and he was still planning on invading Greenland.ÿ When
the boarded their outbound flights, maybe there was rumour he was going
to do something in Iran, but his actual actions and exact timing were a
surprise to pretty much everyone.ÿ If you think you knew exactly what
was going to happen, you were evidently a lot better informed than the
UK government, let alone the average tourist.
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
You should be safe anywhere without oil reserves.
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 15:51:13 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 17/03/2026 02:10, Clank wrote:
On 16/03/2026 20:36, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:44:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on >>>>> Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>"Acts of war" and similar are a fairly standard exclusion for
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance >>>>>> is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building >>>>>>>> that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>>>>> true value of the business?
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up >>>>>> again after a disaster.Saturday, 16 Maytrr
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle >>>>> East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in >>>>> the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums >>>>> out of pocket.
non-specialised insurance. Some of the stranded people seem to have
been spectacularly ignorant of events in the Middle East and/or the
usual limits of insurance.
What would you suggest they do?ÿ Many people book their travel months in >>> advance; when people booked their flights Iran was likely a mere twinkle >>> in Trump's eye and he was still planning on invading Greenland.ÿ When
the boarded their outbound flights, maybe there was rumour he was going
to do something in Iran, but his actual actions and exact timing were a
surprise to pretty much everyone.ÿ If you think you knew exactly what
was going to happen, you were evidently a lot better informed than the
UK government, let alone the average tourist.
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
You should be safe anywhere without oil reserves.
Actually, Dubai has no oil or gas. Nor has Cuba!!
On 17/03/2026 15:56, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 15:51:13 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 17/03/2026 02:10, Clank wrote:
On 16/03/2026 20:36, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:44:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <8lberkl60qs90k959u71edf22grv0s3sro@4ax.com>, at 22:50:46 on >>>>>> Sun, 15 Mar 2026, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>"Acts of war" and similar are a fairly standard exclusion for
remarked:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 09:33:34 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 15/03/2026 00:13, Charles Ellson wrote:Maybe not exceed it but be a significant expense. Voluntary insurance >>>>>>> is possibly often ignored by those who think they won't have an
It would seem from interviews of some of the others in the building >>>>>>>>> that not many of them had insurance either.
Is it like many cases where the cost of the insurance would exceed the >>>>>>>> true value of the business?
unfortunate incident, especially if they think they can just start up >>>>>>> again after a disaster.Saturday, 16 Maytrr
There's a rather large number of people currently stranded in the Middle >>>>>> East, and places where their flights home would have gone via hubs in >>>>>> the Middle East, who have discovered their œ20 holiday insurance,
mis-sold as 'Travel Insurance', will be leaving them four-figure sums >>>>>> out of pocket.
non-specialised insurance. Some of the stranded people seem to have
been spectacularly ignorant of events in the Middle East and/or the
usual limits of insurance.
What would you suggest they do?ÿ Many people book their travel months in >>>> advance; when people booked their flights Iran was likely a mere twinkle >>>> in Trump's eye and he was still planning on invading Greenland.ÿ When
the boarded their outbound flights, maybe there was rumour he was going >>>> to do something in Iran, but his actual actions and exact timing were a >>>> surprise to pretty much everyone.ÿ If you think you knew exactly what
was going to happen, you were evidently a lot better informed than the >>>> UK government, let alone the average tourist.
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
You should be safe anywhere without oil reserves.
Actually, Dubai has no oil or gas. Nor has Cuba!!
Nor does Greenland but... It does have minerals.
In message <10p9s7a$2bnk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:20:42 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p9fl0$26iqd$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:46:08 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
I've never seen any indication that recliner has a partner.
Deliberate diverting whoosh there?
Your remark seemed to be aimed at recliner, and I usually stop accessing
the Internet at around 6pm when it's time to cook dinner. So no late
evening sessions.
In message <10p9s7d$2bnk6$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:20:45 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>>>> Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his
misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand >>>>>> them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>>>> from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have >>>>>> come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the >>>>>> cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>>>> certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
But you are aren?t you , more than one of has pointed out that the
situation that is well summed up by what Recliner wrote is what 100?s or >>>> maybe despite closures 1000?s of pubs serve beer drawn from a cask in the >>>> cellar and dispensed from a pump on the bar is advertised correctly and >>>> understood by most to be cask ale, but you resolutely are trying to tell us
we and the pubs and the breweries that promote it as such are all wrong, >>>> and the term only applies to that drawn from a cask
directly which you arrogantly try and state the term only applies to
because of language change because you have heard it from a few bar
persons.
Quite frankly we can see that as usual you are talking bollocks
and it isn?t just Recliner who sees this.
Care to name a number of these pubs that use this method , I?d wager there >>>> are just a handful compared to those who use use pumps and we would soon >>>> find a larger number who advertise as such and have websites that show the
bar with pumps. Would just have to pick some names out of Camras good beer >>>> guide and find their websites. If they stuck to your view it would be a >>>> very thin volume.
But no doubt you will still carry on claiming your view cannot be the wrong
one.
J.O.I where is that pub you helped become a community one? How do they >>>> serve their cask ale.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
<innocent mode=?wide-eyed?> But surely the picture of Roland pulling a pint >> of Sparta on a hand pump proves that Sparta isn?t a cask ale at all.
</innocent>
There's a whole spectrum of what pubs and breweries call their
beverages. My only point was that in my opinion increasingly "cask
ale" in their marketing means served direct from a barrel.
The "pulling a first pint" was the culmination of months of work helping
get the place on its feet and into the media (mainstream[tm] in this
case). And once again I seem to be the only person around here who is prepared to be myself, show myself.
Apart from yourself, who I have of course met in real life. It'll always
be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely, knew I
was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't suggest we met
at the Cutter for a pint.
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by
everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
In message <n1nq40FhghiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:22:06 on Sun, 15
Mar 2026, nib <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> remarked:
On 2026-03-15 06:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n1jm0vFsap2U1@mid.individual.net>, at 23:47:43 on Fri, 13 >>>Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Is your tap brass?
I believe so, yes. It's probably 50+ yrs old.
ps I disagree with you about the modern meaning of "cask ale", but
did have a nice pint of hand-pumped London Pride yesterday.
Also see:
https://members.camra.org.uk/learn-discover/the-basics/what-is-cask-cond >>itioned-ale/
Do CAMRA run training courses for modern publicans, regarding exactly, >precisely, what to call each kind of drink they serve?
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:43:21 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is byIt's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
That's broadly correct, at least according to CAMRA.
To be more specific, CAMRA no longer uses the term "real ale" in its core formal definitions, although of course it's still one of the most commonly understood colloquial terms.
CAMRA's formal definition now refers to the term "live beer", which means beer that still has live yeast in it - and thus continues to ferment and condition in its container - after leaving the brewery. This includes traditional cask-conditioned and bottle-conditioned beer, but modern technology means that it is no longer limited to them.
It's possible, now, to have live beer in a can or a keg, something which wasn't realistic at the time CAMRA was formed. CAMRA's definition of live beer accepts both of those, although diehards old enough to remember the 70s would probably choke on it[1].
CAMRA further defines "cask-conditioned" beer as a subset of "live beer", meaning live beer (ie, with live yeast) which continues to condition in a cask and is served at atmospheric pressure. The method of dispense is only relevant insofar as the definition excludes pressure dispensing, as that breaks the "served at atmospheric pressure" requirement. Both gravity dispense and pump dispense are perfectly acceptable means of transferring cask beer from the cask to the glass.
More generally, the basic requirement for being listed in The Good Beer
Guide is to serve cask-conditioned beer as defined by CAMRA.
[1] This particular debate was one of the reasons why CAMRA moved to the
term "live beer", since that's amenable to an objective formal definition (based on the measurable presence of live yeast and fermentable material in the container), whereas "real ale" was always a subjective term as well as unnecessarily excluding beer that is not live but is nonetheless of very
high quality - for example, a Belgian Tripel or German Wiessbier.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:43:21 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>Cue another disputing sub-thread when A Certain Person opines...
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
That's broadly correct, at least according to CAMRA.
CAMRA's formal definition now refers to the term "live beer", which means beer that still has live yeast in it - and thus continues to ferment and condition in its container - after leaving the brewery.
It's possible, now, to have live beer in a can or a keg, something which wasn't realistic at the time CAMRA was formed. CAMRA's definition of live beer accepts both of those, although diehards old enough to remember the 70s would probably choke on it[1].
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 08:20:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10pad68$2haie$1@dont-email.me>, at 04:10:17 on Tue, 17 Mar >>2026, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only >>>viable holiday option for most people from now on.
What's happened to a lot of people is no "Plan B" for getting back home.
They assume the airlines will just re-book them, but with airspace
closed, many airlines suspending all operations in the region, and
official repatriation flights just a publicity stunt[tm], the best route >>out currently is probably by road to Saudia Arabia, then a flight to >>Turkey, then another flight from there.
There's been more than enough Emirates and Etihad flights by now for
anyone who wants to leave the UAE to have done so.
Even some limited hub-and-spoke transit flights through Dubai are now >possible.
You should be safe anywhere without oil reserves.
Actually, Dubai has no oil or gas. Nor has Cuba!!
Nor does Greenland but... It does have minerals.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:16:23 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <10p9fl0$26iqd$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:46:08 on Mon, 16 Mar >>2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
I've never seen any indication that recliner has a partner.
We can't all have girlfriends that designed every single piece of
technology,
except for the parts you did.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:43:21 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> >wrote:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is byIt's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
That's broadly correct, at least according to CAMRA.
To be more specific, CAMRA no longer uses the term "real ale" in its core >formal definitions, although of course it's still one of the most commonly >understood colloquial terms.
CAMRA's formal definition now refers to the term "live beer", which means >beer that still has live yeast in it - and thus continues to ferment and >condition in its container - after leaving the brewery. This includes >traditional cask-conditioned and bottle-conditioned beer, but modern >technology means that it is no longer limited to them.
It's possible, now, to have live beer in a can or a keg, something which >wasn't realistic at the time CAMRA was formed. CAMRA's definition of live >beer accepts both of those, although diehards old enough to remember the 70s >would probably choke on it[1].
CAMRA further defines "cask-conditioned" beer as a subset of "live beer", >meaning live beer (ie, with live yeast) which continues to condition in a >cask and is served at atmospheric pressure. The method of dispense is only >relevant insofar as the definition excludes pressure dispensing, as that >breaks the "served at atmospheric pressure" requirement. Both gravity >dispense and pump dispense are perfectly acceptable means of transferring >cask beer from the cask to the glass.
More generally, the basic requirement for being listed in The Good Beer
Guide is to serve cask-conditioned beer as defined by CAMRA.
[1] This particular debate was one of the reasons why CAMRA moved to the
term "live beer", since that's amenable to an objective formal definition >(based on the measurable presence of live yeast and fermentable material in >the container), whereas "real ale" was always a subjective term as well as >unnecessarily excluding beer that is not live but is nonetheless of very
high quality - for example, a Belgian Tripel or German Wiessbier.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p9s7a$2bnk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:20:42 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10p9fl0$26iqd$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:46:08 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>> 2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people >>>>>> in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
As ever <http://xkcd.com/386>
I've never seen any indication that recliner has a partner.
Deliberate diverting whoosh there?
Your remark seemed to be aimed at recliner, and I usually stop accessing
the Internet at around 6pm when it's time to cook dinner. So no late
evening sessions.
It?s aimed at people who can?t help engaging when they think other people
are wrong.
The "pulling a first pint" was the culmination of months of work helping
get the place on its feet and into the media (mainstream[tm] in this
case). And once again I seem to be the only person around here who is
prepared to be myself, show myself.
Apart from yourself, who I have of course met in real life. It'll always
be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely,
I?ve never, ever taken a Cathedrals Express train to anywhere.
knew I was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't >>suggest we met at the Cutter for a pint.
I haven?t met anyone from this ng in real life.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
<innocent mode=?wide-eyed?> But surely the picture of Roland pulling
a pint of Sparta on a hand pump proves that Sparta isn?t a cask ale
at all. </innocent>
There's a whole spectrum of what pubs and breweries call their
beverages. My only point was that in my opinion increasingly "cask
ale" in their marketing means served direct from a barrel.
So by your definition what you were serving at that point was not cask ale, >as one of the correspondents above termed it.
The "pulling a first pint" was the culmination of months of work helping
get the place on its feet and into the media (mainstream[tm] in this
case). And once again I seem to be the only person around here who is
prepared to be myself, show myself.
I?ve always regarded anonymity as the major curse of the internet. I can >understand why some people need it, I can understand a number of reasons
why people want it, but I think it?s the main reason why social media have >the poor and deserved reputation that they do.
Apart from yourself, who I have of course met in real life. It'll always
be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely, knew I
was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't suggest we met
at the Cutter for a pint.
See Recliner?s response.
I?d be glad to meet up again, and with other people here, if it could
be arranged.
In message <54qirktm9mt5e14jivks6b2fg8fpne0cvo@4ax.com>, at 14:47:51 on
Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 08:20:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10pad68$2haie$1@dont-email.me>, at 04:10:17 on Tue, 17 Mar
2026, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
What's happened to a lot of people is no "Plan B" for getting back home. >>>
They assume the airlines will just re-book them, but with airspace
closed, many airlines suspending all operations in the region, and
official repatriation flights just a publicity stunt[tm], the best route >>> out currently is probably by road to Saudia Arabia, then a flight to
Turkey, then another flight from there.
There's been more than enough Emirates and Etihad flights by now for
anyone who wants to leave the UAE to have done so.
Nothing like that number. The media is overflowing with tales of woe
from those still stranded.
Even some limited hub-and-spoke transit flights through Dubai are now
possible.
Airspace is now closed to all but UAE-based airlines.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely, knew I
was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't suggest we met
at the Cutter for a pint.
Looks a pleasant place , I see Camra list them as having cask ale , as does
a drinks menu admittedly dating from 2024 yet photos show hand pumps on the >bar .
No doubt its close enough to pop in so you can explain their description is >now outdated because language has changed.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 16:36:01 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <0s8grk93ocopotdmaggsm3cif3g4t5c8f0@4ax.com>, at 15:43:47 on >>Mon, 16 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar >>>>2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>>everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is >>>>impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>>out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
One person you've spoken to it one pub? And did you misunderstand
them, anyway?
Your suggestion that, "Surely that's reserved for being served direct >>>from a cask, rather than via a handpump?" is highly unlikely to have
come from anyone working in a pub. Yes, ale served directly from the
cask is undeniably cask ale, but so is ale pumped from it. So, almost >>>certainly, you simply misunderstood, but wish to turn it into yet
another long-running argument against the world.
I don't want to have a long-running argument, with the half dozen people
in uk.r, but apparently you want to have one with me. Why?
I know the answer to this one!
Because, even more than usual, you are so obviously wrong
yet even more obstinate than usual in admitting it. It's very, very >frustrating and I don't know why you act like it. It doesn't make you
happy and it infuriates me and others.
I'm getting bored with this. I may killfile the main dramatis
personae.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:15:12 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation.
It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing
out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
You are simply wrong. I suspect I visit far more pubs all over the
country than you do and they all interpret cask ale the way everybody
has told you.
As you always have a claim to some kind of authority I'll do the same.
I was on the committee and spent several years as chair of a social
club, and, as a trustee, I still attend business meetings with them
today. We sell cask ale and have a board telling you which ones are on
sale and due soon.
I've also asked for, and drunk, cask ale in dozens of pubs (and
sometimes restaurants) from Plymouth to Wick with many places in
between (Birmingham, Sheffeild, York, Cambridge, Stourbridge,
Carlisle, Glasgow, London, Seaford, Chesterfield ...) over the last 18
months or so.
Why have you ignored the web pages people have sent you on which the
brewers tell the public what cask ale is?
As an afterthought, I have NEVER heard your interpretation of the term >anywhere. I'd call it something like 'direct from the cask' or served
by gravity.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <54qirktm9mt5e14jivks6b2fg8fpne0cvo@4ax.com>, at 14:47:51 on
Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 08:20:48 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <10pad68$2haie$1@dont-email.me>, at 04:10:17 on Tue, 17 Mar >>>> 2026, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
If your advice is "don't travel to or via anywhere that Trump might
cause chaos", I fear that leaves "hiding in your basement" the only
viable holiday option for most people from now on.
What's happened to a lot of people is no "Plan B" for getting back home. >>>>
They assume the airlines will just re-book them, but with airspace
closed, many airlines suspending all operations in the region, and
official repatriation flights just a publicity stunt[tm], the best route >>>> out currently is probably by road to Saudia Arabia, then a flight to
Turkey, then another flight from there.
There's been more than enough Emirates and Etihad flights by now for
anyone who wants to leave the UAE to have done so.
Nothing like that number. The media is overflowing with tales of woe
from those still stranded.
Do you have any recent examples?
The problem has moved on from getting out to keeping their tax status?some returned tax-exiles could be facing big CGT bills:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/british-expats-dubai-gulf-tax-hmrc-iran-war-b1274679.html
She urged: ?Given the extraordinary circumstances, HMRC should adopt a pragmatic and sympathetic approach.?
In message <10pchc2$39puh$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:33:54 on Tue, 17 Mar
2026, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvjqjmp149o
You can see Roland pulling a pint of a cask ale, Sparta:
https://camra.org.uk/beers/milton-sparta-session-bitter-3454
<innocent mode=?wide-eyed?> But surely the picture of Roland pulling
a pint of Sparta on a hand pump proves that Sparta isn?t a cask ale
at all. </innocent>
There's a whole spectrum of what pubs and breweries call their
beverages. My only point was that in my opinion increasingly "cask
ale" in their marketing means served direct from a barrel.
So by your definition what you were serving at that point was not cask ale, >> as one of the correspondents above termed it.
I didn't give it a name. The choice of which pump to operate was
entirely down to composing the photography. Although by co-incidence,
Sparta is what I would normally drink at The Cutter in Ely. Round here
it's as ubiquitous as the ghastly Doom Bar (as not-brewed in Cornwall
for some time now).
The "pulling a first pint" was the culmination of months of work helping >>> get the place on its feet and into the media (mainstream[tm] in this
case). And once again I seem to be the only person around here who is
prepared to be myself, show myself.
I?ve always regarded anonymity as the major curse of the internet. I can
understand why some people need it, I can understand a number of reasons
why people want it, but I think it?s the main reason why social media have >> the poor and deserved reputation that they do.
The best strategy for readers of social media (including Usenet) is to
take most of what's posted anonymously as disinformation which they
haven't got the guts to put their name to.
Apart from yourself, who I have of course met in real life. It'll always >>> be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely, knew I >>> was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't suggest we met >>> at the Cutter for a pint.
See Recliner?s response.
"I've never, ever taken a Cathedrals Express train to anywhere."
Interesting. Because someone purporting to be him did, probably from
East Grinstead via North London to Ely on 21st March 2015. Kettle was
broken so hauled by 47580. They posted about the much-beloved underpass.
In message <r7kjrk9g46uge89lnq8tgql5gjhndrhcdv@4ax.com>, at 22:55:03 on
Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:43:21 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> >> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
That's broadly correct, at least according to CAMRA.
To be more specific, CAMRA no longer uses the term "real ale" in its core
formal definitions, although of course it's still one of the most commonly >> understood colloquial terms.
CAMRA's formal definition now refers to the term "live beer", which means
beer that still has live yeast in it - and thus continues to ferment and
condition in its container - after leaving the brewery. This includes
traditional cask-conditioned and bottle-conditioned beer, but modern
technology means that it is no longer limited to them.
It's possible, now, to have live beer in a can or a keg, something which
wasn't realistic at the time CAMRA was formed. CAMRA's definition of live
beer accepts both of those, although diehards old enough to remember the 70s >> would probably choke on it[1].
CAMRA further defines "cask-conditioned" beer as a subset of "live beer",
meaning live beer (ie, with live yeast) which continues to condition in a
cask and is served at atmospheric pressure. The method of dispense is only >> relevant insofar as the definition excludes pressure dispensing, as that
breaks the "served at atmospheric pressure" requirement. Both gravity
dispense and pump dispense are perfectly acceptable means of transferring
cask beer from the cask to the glass.
More generally, the basic requirement for being listed in The Good Beer
Guide is to serve cask-conditioned beer as defined by CAMRA.
[1] This particular debate was one of the reasons why CAMRA moved to the
term "live beer", since that's amenable to an objective formal definition
(based on the measurable presence of live yeast and fermentable material in >> the container), whereas "real ale" was always a subjective term as well as >> unnecessarily excluding beer that is not live but is nonetheless of very
high quality - for example, a Belgian Tripel or German Wiessbier.
I went to a Greene King pub yesterday, and their Wine list intensifies
the obfuscation.
It has a section for "Ale & Stout", including Old Speckled Hen and
Guinness. (Is the OSH "real", I wonder?)
The general blurb says: "Cask and draught beer available". So clearly
they think there's some important difference, or are they just pandering
to customers' own choice of adjective?
I'll have a pint of real draught cask ale please".
In message <n1sv77Fbl7uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:19:51 on Tue, 17
Mar 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals Express to Ely, knew I >> was living five minutes walk from the station, and didn't suggest we met >> at the Cutter for a pint.
Looks a pleasant place , I see Camra list them as having cask ale , as does >a drinks menu admittedly dating from 2024 yet photos show hand pumps on the >bar .
No doubt its close enough to pop in so you can explain their description is >now outdated because language has changed.
Yes, I might have a chat with them, although many pubs don't mind about being seen to be "outdated". For example insisting on only selling
lager.
There's been more than enough Emirates and Etihad flights by now for
anyone who wants to leave the UAE to have done so.
Nothing like that number. The media is overflowing with tales of woe
from those still stranded.
Do you have any recent examples?
The problem has moved on from getting out to keeping their tax status?some >returned tax-exiles could be facing big CGT bills:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/british-expats-dubai-gulf-tax-hmrc-iran-war-b1274679.html
Even some limited hub-and-spoke transit flights through Dubai are now
possible.
Airspace is now closed to all but UAE-based airlines.
Why would that affect Emirates, Etihad or Qatar?
It'll always be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals >>>>Express to Ely, knew I was living five minutes walk from the
station, and didn't suggest we met at the Cutter for a pint.
See Recliner?s response.
"I've never, ever taken a Cathedrals Express train to anywhere."
Interesting. Because someone purporting to be him did, probably from
East Grinstead via North London to Ely on 21st March 2015. Kettle was
broken so hauled by 47580. They posted about the much-beloved underpass.
Definitely not me. Where is your evidence?
In fact, on that day, I wasn?t even in the UK. I had travelled to a country >with no railways to witness the total solar eclipse.
On 17/03/2026 08:33, Roland Perry wrote:
No, for all the reasons previously given. Can't you get it into your
head there's no one esclusive allowable expression for things. And
that language chnges over time.
You were the one insisting there was only one definition of cask ale!
In message <SJvuR.7312$R9g2.824@fx07.ams1>, at 11:09:38 on Wed, 18 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
There's been more than enough Emirates and Etihad flights by now for
anyone who wants to leave the UAE to have done so.
Nothing like that number. The media is overflowing with tales of woe
from those still stranded.
Do you have any recent examples?
My Facebook feed is overflowing with them. Some have spilled over into
the main stream media. I don't routinely save the urls just in case
someone cries "cite".
The problem has moved on from getting out to keeping their tax status?some >> returned tax-exiles could be facing big CGT bills:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/british-expats-dubai-gulf-tax-hmrc-iran-war-b1274679.html
My heart bleeds for people whose tax exemption would expire if they came back to the UK a week or two too soon. Why don't they while away the
time with a round the world cruise, and return to UK in May or June?
Even some limited hub-and-spoke transit flights through Dubai are now
possible.
Airspace is now closed to all but UAE-based airlines.
Why would that affect Emirates, Etihad or Qatar?
It affects those passengers originally booked on other airlines. Like
BA.
In message <XWvuR.399$_71.219@fx14.ams1>, at 11:23:35 on Wed, 18 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
It'll always be a mystery to me why recliner took a Cathedrals
Express to Ely, knew I was living five minutes walk from the
station, and didn't suggest we met at the Cutter for a pint.
See Recliner?s response.
"I've never, ever taken a Cathedrals Express train to anywhere."
Interesting. Because someone purporting to be him did, probably from
East Grinstead via North London to Ely on 21st March 2015. Kettle was
broken so hauled by 47580. They posted about the much-beloved underpass.
Definitely not me. Where is your evidence?
I'll have to look at the uk.r archives.
In fact, on that day, I wasn?t even in the UK. I had travelled to a country >> with no railways to witness the total solar eclipse.
In which case it must have been a different Cathedrals Express around
the same time (+/- a year probably). While most terminated at Norwich
(via Ely) there were some which were only scheduled to Ely.
In message <10pbg91$2sjjl$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:09:05 on Tue, 17 Mar
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 17/03/2026 08:33, Roland Perry wrote:
No, for all the reasons previously given. Can't you get it into your
head there's no one esclusive allowable expression for things. And
that language chnges over time.
You were the one insisting there was only one definition of cask ale!
If you think that, it explains why you are tying yourself in knots.
Because I didn't.
In message <r7kjrk9g46uge89lnq8tgql5gjhndrhcdv@4ax.com>, at 22:55:03 on
Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:43:21 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> >> wrote:
On 16/03/2026 15:15, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <n4UtR.91$jWFe.22@fx05.ams1>, at 14:02:59 on Mon, 16 Mar
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Fundamentally, Roland seems to have misunderstood what cask ale is by >>>>> everyone?s definition, and is as usual defending his misinterpretation. >>>>It's clear that for "everyone" to have agreed a definition is
impossible. Different people have different views. I'm simply pointing >>>> out what modern pubs/bar-staff mean by it.
Cask beer is delivered to the pub in a cask, keg beer is delivered to
the pub in a keg. The method of dispense is irrelevant.
That's broadly correct, at least according to CAMRA.
To be more specific, CAMRA no longer uses the term "real ale" in its core
formal definitions, although of course it's still one of the most commonly >> understood colloquial terms.
CAMRA's formal definition now refers to the term "live beer", which means
beer that still has live yeast in it - and thus continues to ferment and
condition in its container - after leaving the brewery. This includes
traditional cask-conditioned and bottle-conditioned beer, but modern
technology means that it is no longer limited to them.
It's possible, now, to have live beer in a can or a keg, something which
wasn't realistic at the time CAMRA was formed. CAMRA's definition of live
beer accepts both of those, although diehards old enough to remember the 70s >> would probably choke on it[1].
CAMRA further defines "cask-conditioned" beer as a subset of "live beer",
meaning live beer (ie, with live yeast) which continues to condition in a
cask and is served at atmospheric pressure. The method of dispense is only >> relevant insofar as the definition excludes pressure dispensing, as that
breaks the "served at atmospheric pressure" requirement. Both gravity
dispense and pump dispense are perfectly acceptable means of transferring
cask beer from the cask to the glass.
More generally, the basic requirement for being listed in The Good Beer
Guide is to serve cask-conditioned beer as defined by CAMRA.
[1] This particular debate was one of the reasons why CAMRA moved to the
term "live beer", since that's amenable to an objective formal definition
(based on the measurable presence of live yeast and fermentable material in >> the container), whereas "real ale" was always a subjective term as well as >> unnecessarily excluding beer that is not live but is nonetheless of very
high quality - for example, a Belgian Tripel or German Wiessbier.
I went to a Greene King pub yesterday, and their Wine list intensifies
the obfuscation.
It has a section for "Ale & Stout", including Old Speckled Hen and
Guinness. (Is the OSH "real", I wonder?)
The general blurb says: "Cask and draught beer available". So clearly
they think there's some important difference, or are they just pandering
to customers' own choice of adjective?
I'll have a pint of real draught cask ale please".
In message <10pbg91$2sjjl$3@dont-email.me>, at 12:09:05 on Tue, 17 Mar
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 17/03/2026 08:33, Roland Perry wrote:
No, for all the reasons previously given. Can't you get it into your
head there's no one esclusive allowable expression for things. And
that language chnges over time.
You were the one insisting there was only one definition of cask ale!
If you think that, it explains why you are tying yourself in knots.
Because I didn't.
The correct code word these days is cask ale.
?Surely that's reserved for being served direct from a cask, rather than
via a handpump??
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