My disappointment with NetSarang's "Xmanager Suite" has
finally boiled over. Too many silly bugs. And, its
obvious that they don't even have the underlying
(decades old!) technology correct.

Their suite includes:
- X server
- lpd
- TELNET/SSH console
- FTP client

I can live without lpd as I can make those connections without
need of an intermediary (esp if that would require a Windows
host to be running!)

Any suggestions?

If *all* I needed was the ftp client, I would standardize
on Beyond Compare (which I have heartily recommended to my
colleagues). It has very few bugs and there are workarounds
for them (albeit annoying).

I can use PuTTY for SSH/TELNET; not as nice of an interface
but it seems very reliable.

The X server is the holdup. I'm using VNC to work around that
but it complicates the clients' configuration.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 16:45:43 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

My disappointment with NetSarang's "Xmanager Suite" has
finally boiled over. Too many silly bugs. And, its
obvious that they don't even have the underlying
(decades old!) technology correct.

Their suite includes:
- X server
- lpd
- TELNET/SSH console
- FTP client

I can live without lpd as I can make those connections without
need of an intermediary (esp if that would require a Windows
host to be running!)

Any suggestions?

If *all* I needed was the ftp client, I would standardize
on Beyond Compare (which I have heartily recommended to my
colleagues). It has very few bugs and there are workarounds
for them (albeit annoying).

I can use PuTTY for SSH/TELNET; not as nice of an interface
but it seems very reliable.

The X server is the holdup. I'm using VNC to work around that
but it complicates the clients' configuration.

MoboXterm?

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/19/2026 6:27 PM, JM wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 16:45:43 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

My disappointment with NetSarang's "Xmanager Suite" has
finally boiled over. Too many silly bugs. And, its
obvious that they don't even have the underlying
(decades old!) technology correct.

Their suite includes:
- X server
- lpd
- TELNET/SSH console
- FTP client

I can live without lpd as I can make those connections without
need of an intermediary (esp if that would require a Windows
host to be running!)

Any suggestions?

If *all* I needed was the ftp client, I would standardize
on Beyond Compare (which I have heartily recommended to my
colleagues). It has very few bugs and there are workarounds
for them (albeit annoying).

I can use PuTTY for SSH/TELNET; not as nice of an interface
but it seems very reliable.

The X server is the holdup. I'm using VNC to work around that
but it complicates the clients' configuration.

MoboXterm?

Thanks! I'll have a look at the demo... All of the references to
UN*X utilities has me questioning if they are Windows hosted or
hosted under cygwin, etc.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/20/2026 5:08 PM, Niocl s P¢l Caile n de Ghloucester wrote:

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: |-----------------------------------------------------------|
|"- TELNET/SSH console |
|- FTP client |
| |
|[. . .] |
| |
|I can use PuTTY for SSH/TELNET; not as nice of an interface|
|but it seems very reliable." | |-----------------------------------------------------------|

I use PuTTY a lot without a problem. A recent version of Microsoft
Windows has its own SSh implementation. I do not use it a lot.

I don't rely on MS for any "legacy" protocols. Their UI is (deliberately?) crippled to hide capabilities of the underlying filesystem, etc.
(filename case sensitivity, MAXPATH, SMB issues with huge numbers
of transfers).

You can use other tools to work around these -- but, when you
return to the Windows GUI, you're screwed! (How do I
access ReadMe when README, readme and ReAdMe all coexist in
the same context?)

I do not use FTP a lot on new versions of Windows. Even old versions
of Windows used to come with their own implementations. Corrupted big
files were risks, but probably more because big downloads via FTP
(instead of e.g. SFTP or BitTorrent) are risky than because of
Microsoft ineptness. Wget supports FTP, but I do not use it a lot for
FTP to Windows.

MS has issues trying to transfer large numbers of files via SMB.
And, MAXPATHLEN issues.

So, if you want to confine yourself solely to the MS world,
you *might* be able to avoid them (try unzipping a file
with a/really/long/internal/path/name/to/a/specific/file to
a folder that is/located/pretty/far/down/in/the/file/system.

Apple MacOS comes with an SSh client.

PuTTY works though has a bit "dated" interface. The fact that
each session is a separate window is, IMO, a win. Other clients
want to use MDI -- which sucks if you want to exploit lots of screen
space to see multiple sessions concurrently.

NCDware was my go-to X server in ages past. The NetSarang product
is "adequate" and manages to coexist with my triple headed
workstations without complaining.

The FTP product was the killer. It would become unresponsive
(just the GUI side; transfers kept running). It would reconnect
a disconnected session and forget to reinvoke all of the
options that were in effect from the disconnected session
(BIN being the most consequential). At times, it would just "stop"
and act as if it was still running. etc.

I don't want to fight my tools -- they are supposed to work for me!

Beyond Compare is a workaround but not the ideal solution (for
file transfer).


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

"Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:10kp8o7$1mt0n$1@dont-email.me...

On 1/20/2026 5:08 PM, Niocl?s P?l Caile?n de Ghloucester wrote:

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|"- TELNET/SSH console |
|- FTP client |
| |
|[. . .] |
| |
|I can use PuTTY for SSH/TELNET; not as nice of an interface|
|but it seems very reliable." |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|

I use PuTTY a lot without a problem. A recent version of Microsoft
Windows has its own SSh implementation. I do not use it a lot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do but I use PuTTY for command line
and https://winscp.net/eng/index.php for file access over various protocols.

I don't rely on MS for any "legacy" protocols. Their UI is (deliberately?) crippled to hide capabilities of the underlying filesystem, etc.
(filename case sensitivity, MAXPATH, SMB issues with huge numbers
of transfers).

You can use other tools to work around these -- but, when you
return to the Windows GUI, you're screwed! (How do I
access ReadMe when README, readme and ReAdMe all coexist in
the same context?)

I do not use FTP a lot on new versions of Windows. Even old versions
of Windows used to come with their own implementations. Corrupted big
files were risks, but probably more because big downloads via FTP
(instead of e.g. SFTP or BitTorrent) are risky than because of
Microsoft ineptness. Wget supports FTP, but I do not use it a lot for
FTP to Windows.

MS has issues trying to transfer large numbers of files via SMB.
And, MAXPATHLEN issues.

So, if you want to confine yourself solely to the MS world,
you *might* be able to avoid them (try unzipping a file
with a/really/long/internal/path/name/to/a/specific/file to
a folder that is/located/pretty/far/down/in/the/file/system.

Apple MacOS comes with an SSh client.

PuTTY works though has a bit "dated" interface. The fact that
each session is a separate window is, IMO, a win. Other clients
want to use MDI -- which sucks if you want to exploit lots of screen
space to see multiple sessions concurrently.

NCDware was my go-to X server in ages past. The NetSarang product
is "adequate" and manages to coexist with my triple headed
workstations without complaining.

The FTP product was the killer. It would become unresponsive
(just the GUI side; transfers kept running). It would reconnect
a disconnected session and forget to reinvoke all of the
options that were in effect from the disconnected session
(BIN being the most consequential). At times, it would just "stop"
and act as if it was still running. etc.

I don't want to fight my tools -- they are supposed to work for me!

Beyond Compare is a workaround but not the ideal solution (for
file transfer).

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/21/2026 11:11 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to do but I use PuTTY for command line
and https://winscp.net/eng/index.php for file access over various protocols.

The maligned Xmanager suite includes an X server (used to access
my *BSD and Solaris boxen), graphical FTP client (so I can copy from
one file/FTP/NFS/SMB server to another file/FTP/NFS/SMB server),
telnet/ssh client (though MDI) and lpd service (usually only needed
for oddball devices as I try to set up native interfaces on
the UN*X boxen).

IO tend to move LARGE groups of files -- large in number and in size.
E.g., I've moved 12T in the past several days.

Doing so, a server often closes the control connection while moving
data so the client has to reopen the connection and REASSERT THE
SAME OPTIONS that were previously in effect. Otherwise, it's
APPEARANCE of continuing is illusory -- subsequent transfers
aren't done under the same conditions as earlier ones.

Or, the UI will become unresponsive (perhaps a single-threaded
implementation with upcalls to the GUI and when running balls
out, not enough time to service the interface AND the GUI?

Or, it will act like it is still moving data and I can visibly see
the server(s) are idle.

I.e., it's a shitty piece of code.

Given that the TELNET/SSH client is also less desireable than
e.g., PuTTY, the only thing the "suite" had going for it was
lpd -- which isn't particularly useful to me.

[Suites tend to integrate things -- I could initiate a file transfer
from within a TELNET session, etc.]

Beyond Compare gives me a graphical FTP client as a side-effect
of its normal functionality. (and, seems to do so reliably -- one
of the most well-crafter examples of a multithreaded desktop
application that I've encountered!)

But, that's *all* it gives me (in terms of the needs addressed above)

wget and other command line tools are annoying to use as they
require scripting -- something I don't mess with on Windows
platforms as there is little value to THAT skillset.

And, rsync on a windows client would be ineffective. How would it
store a local copy of makefile, Makefile and ClassX::Method5.cpp?
You can come up with substitutions -- but, then tools can't
correlate "THIS" with "that"

Eschew Windows.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 21/01/2026 22:00, Don Y wrote:

On 1/21/2026 11:11 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to do but I use PuTTY for command line
and https://winscp.net/eng/index.php for file access over various
protocols.

The maligned Xmanager suite includes an X server (used to access
my *BSD and Solaris boxen), graphical FTP client (so I can copy from
one file/FTP/NFS/SMB server to another file/FTP/NFS/SMB server),
telnet/ssh client (though MDI) and lpd service (usually only needed
for oddball devices as I try to set up native interfaces on
the UN*X boxen).

IO tend to move LARGE groups of files -- large in number and in size.
E.g., I've moved 12T in the past several days.

Doing so, a server often closes the control connection while moving
data so the client has to reopen the connection and REASSERT THE
SAME OPTIONS that were previously in effect.ÿ Otherwise, it's
APPEARANCE of continuing is illusory -- subsequent transfers
aren't done under the same conditions as earlier ones.

Or, the UI will become unresponsive (perhaps a single-threaded
implementation with upcalls to the GUI and when running balls
out, not enough time to service the interface AND the GUI?

Or, it will act like it is still moving data and I can visibly see
the server(s) are idle.

I.e., it's a shitty piece of code.

Given that the TELNET/SSH client is also less desireable than
e.g., PuTTY, the only thing the "suite" had going for it was
lpd -- which isn't particularly useful to me.

[Suites tend to integrate things -- I could initiate a file transfer
from within a TELNET session, etc.]

Beyond Compare gives me a graphical FTP client as a side-effect
of its normal functionality.ÿ (and, seems to do so reliably -- one
of the most well-crafter examples of a multithreaded desktop
application that I've encountered!)

But, that's *all* it gives me (in terms of the needs addressed above)

wget and other command line tools are annoying to use as they
require scripting -- something I don't mess with on Windows
platforms as there is little value to THAT skillset.

And, rsync on a windows client would be ineffective.ÿ How would it
store a local copy of makefile, Makefile and ClassX::Method5.cpp?
You can come up with substitutions -- but, then tools can't
correlate "THIS" with "that"

Eschew Windows.

For file transfers have a look at sftp. It looks like ftp but works
much better in most situations.
John


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/21/2026 3:40 PM, John R Walliker wrote:

wget and other command line tools are annoying to use as they
require scripting -- something I don't mess with on Windows
platforms as there is little value to THAT skillset.

And, rsync on a windows client would be ineffective.ÿ How would it
store a local copy of makefile, Makefile and ClassX::Method5.cpp?
You can come up with substitutions -- but, then tools can't
correlate "THIS" with "that"

Eschew Windows.

For file transfers have a look at sftp.ÿ It looks like ftp but works
much better in most situations.

I don't need the secure aspect as the network isn't routed.

The issues tend to be more on a macro usage level. E.g.,
wanting to grab multiple files, entire subdirectories,
move from the file system to an SMB share, FTP server to
ANOTHER FTP server, etc.

And, not encounter name mangling or other implementation
artifacts along the way.

E.g., UTF-8 vs UTF-16, path length limitations, name collisions
due to case insensitivity /in the client/, etc.

Presently, I use some tool -- then sort out what it did
wrong, afterwards. And, do manual fixups. Did ALL of the files
get transferred? Did any of their names get mangled in the
process? Were timestamps preserved? etc.

E.g., "client-side" is not "client?side", despite what your eyes
may tell you.

There are too many different techniques I have to use to get
the results that I want.

# cd /foo; tar cpf - baz | (cd /bar; tar xpf - )

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/21/2026 4:43 AM, Niocl s P¢l Caile n de Ghloucester wrote:

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"MS has issues trying to transfer large numbers of files via SMB. |
|And, MAXPATHLEN issues. |
| |
|So, if you want to confine yourself solely to the MS world, |
|you *might* be able to avoid them (try unzipping a file |
|with a/really/long/internal/path/name/to/a/specific/file to |
|a folder that is/located/pretty/far/down/in/the/file/system." | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Even cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer from C:\ to D:\
failed where the paths differed only by their drives letters
(i.e. their paths are equally long). Windows Explorer reports for a
directory on D:
-
"Size: 2.51 GB [. . .]
[. . .]
Contains: 14,824 Files, 253 Folders".
Such a D:-drive directory came to be on this D: drive by ordering
Windows Explorer to cut and paste from this C: drive, but Windows
Explorer buggily left many files behind on this C: drive
-
"Size: 96.6 MB [. . .]
[. . .]
Contains: 1,190 Files, 59 Folders"
despite copying to D: at least some of what remains on C: - e.g. D:\ailt_liom\Press-Ombudsman_paper\5u_iarratas_de_2023\Comments.txt
is a perfect copy of C:\ailt_liom\Press-Ombudsman_paper\5u_iarratas_de_2023\Comments.txt
- Microsoft is bad but thank goodness it did not delete before
copying!

Remarkably though, maybe Windows Explorer succeeded to copy
everything but failed to delete originals, as only 1 subdirectory
thereof remains on C: and Windows Explorer reported for it:
"Size: 96.6 MB [. . .]
Contains: 1,190 Files, 58 Folders"
and reports for its D: counterpart:
"Size 96.9 MB [. . .]
[. . .]
Contains: 1,191 Files".
Dir/s/b and FC report
that the D: version has D:\ailt_liom\Press-Ombudsman_paper\5u_iarratas_de_2023\submission-to-statutory-review-of-the-defamation-act-december-2016.pdf
and that no counterpart is on the C: version. This missing filename
has a length of only 125 characters.

Does it contain any UTF-16 characters /anywhere in the path/?

What's annoying is the filesystem supports things that their
standard tools (and API?) seem to not address.

E.g., I can create file- and path-names that Explorer can't access.
So, it's a defect in Explorer.

Try copying a share with a few million files to another. Watch
to see how throughput drops precipitously! "Gee, can I restart
from a convenient place where it left off?"

Ever notice how file sizes use different conventions based on the
app that is revealing that information? A 0B file may appear as "1K"
(that's a significant difference from 0!) Or, MiB in some places
and MB in another? Or, "off by one" on size (rounding convention)?

# du -s *



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On 21/01/2026 22:00, Don Y wrote:

On 1/21/2026 11:11 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to do but I use PuTTY for command line
and https://winscp.net/eng/index.php for file access over various
protocols.

The maligned Xmanager suite includes an X server (used to access
my *BSD and Solaris boxen), graphical FTP client (so I can copy from
one file/FTP/NFS/SMB server to another file/FTP/NFS/SMB server),
telnet/ssh client (though MDI) and lpd service (usually only needed
for oddball devices as I try to set up native interfaces on
the UN*X boxen).

IO tend to move LARGE groups of files -- large in number and in size.
E.g., I've moved 12T in the past several days.

Doing so, a server often closes the control connection while moving
data so the client has to reopen the connection and REASSERT THE
SAME OPTIONS that were previously in effect.? Otherwise, it's
APPEARANCE of continuing is illusory -- subsequent transfers
aren't done under the same conditions as earlier ones.

Or, the UI will become unresponsive (perhaps a single-threaded
implementation with upcalls to the GUI and when running balls
out, not enough time to service the interface AND the GUI?

Or, it will act like it is still moving data and I can visibly see
the server(s) are idle.

I.e., it's a shitty piece of code.

Given that the TELNET/SSH client is also less desireable than
e.g., PuTTY, the only thing the "suite" had going for it was
lpd -- which isn't particularly useful to me.

[Suites tend to integrate things -- I could initiate a file transfer
from within a TELNET session, etc.]

Beyond Compare gives me a graphical FTP client as a side-effect
of its normal functionality.? (and, seems to do so reliably -- one
of the most well-crafter examples of a multithreaded desktop
application that I've encountered!)

But, that's *all* it gives me (in terms of the needs addressed above)

wget and other command line tools are annoying to use as they
require scripting -- something I don't mess with on Windows
platforms as there is little value to THAT skillset.

And, rsync on a windows client would be ineffective.? How would it
store a local copy of makefile, Makefile and ClassX::Method5.cpp?
You can come up with substitutions -- but, then tools can't
correlate "THIS" with "that"

Eschew Windows.

For file transfers have a look at sftp. It looks like ftp but works
much better in most situations.
John

rsync is the ticket.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/19/2026 6:27 PM, JM wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 16:45:43 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

My disappointment with NetSarang's "Xmanager Suite" has
finally boiled over. Too many silly bugs. And, its
obvious that they don't even have the underlying
(decades old!) technology correct.

Their suite includes:
- X server
- lpd
- TELNET/SSH console
- FTP client

I can live without lpd as I can make those connections without
need of an intermediary (esp if that would require a Windows
host to be running!)

Any suggestions?

If *all* I needed was the ftp client, I would standardize
on Beyond Compare (which I have heartily recommended to my
colleagues). It has very few bugs and there are workarounds
for them (albeit annoying).

I can use PuTTY for SSH/TELNET; not as nice of an interface
but it seems very reliable.

The X server is the holdup. I'm using VNC to work around that
but it complicates the clients' configuration.

MoboXterm?

(s.b. MobaXterm)

So far, this LOOKS like a good deal! I am having some trouble
sorting out what's where (and the right click menu seems like
it missed a lot of opportunities at utility -- but, there's
still a lot of digging that I have to do so there may be a
setting, somewhere...)

It's nice that you can "disconnect" sessions from the MDI.
It would be nice if they defaulted to that form of presentation.

Thanks, again, for the pointer! I'm about to hammer the FTP client
to see how well it fares...

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/23/2026 7:18 PM, Don Y wrote:

So far, this LOOKS like a good deal!ÿ I am having some trouble
sorting out what's where (and the right click menu seems like
it missed a lot of opportunities at utility -- but, there's
still a lot of digging that I have to do so there may be a
setting, somewhere...)

It's nice that you can "disconnect" sessions from the MDI.
It would be nice if they defaulted to that form of presentation.

Thanks, again, for the pointer!ÿ I'm about to hammer the FTP client
to see how well it fares...

(sigh) No, it's as bad (if not worse).

It sure seems like folks just wrap a GUI around a legacy,
single-threaded application without thinking about the
consequences.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026-01-24, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 1/23/2026 7:18 PM, Don Y wrote:

So far, this LOOKS like a good deal!ÿ I am having some trouble
sorting out what's where (and the right click menu seems like
it missed a lot of opportunities at utility -- but, there's
still a lot of digging that I have to do so there may be a
setting, somewhere...)

It's nice that you can "disconnect" sessions from the MDI.
It would be nice if they defaulted to that form of presentation.

Thanks, again, for the pointer!ÿ I'm about to hammer the FTP client
to see how well it fares...

(sigh) No, it's as bad (if not worse).

It sure seems like folks just wrap a GUI around a legacy,
single-threaded application without thinking about the
consequences.

GUI ftp client -- which FTP features do you need? Filezilla did
most of everything I ever wanted, but only has a fraction of the
capabilities of FTP itself. For example I don't think it supports
third party transfers.

Alternatively winfsp is a thing, dounno how well it works but it
should allow treating ftp servers like network drives.

--
Jasen.
?? ????? ???????

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.6
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)