?SpaceX?
https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot, taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this morning?s
launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a space program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex-launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-weeks-photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon. Starship will be
flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now. Sounds like a plan to me.

Lynn


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

?SpaceX?
ÿÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot, taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this morning?s launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a space program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex- launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-weeks-photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.ÿ Starship will be
flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.ÿ Sounds like a plan to me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk. Even
though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general, Musk
himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an oligarchy
or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He should drop dead!"

--
----------------

Dave Scruggs
Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/13/2026 5:55 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

?SpaceX?
ÿÿÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot,
taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this
morning?s launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a space
program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex-
launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-weeks-
photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.ÿ Starship will be
flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.ÿ Sounds like a plan to me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk. Even though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general, Musk himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an oligarchy
or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He should drop dead!"

I am amazed at that statement. Musk started SpaceX, hired the people, provided the funding, etc. Show me anything that truly disputes those
facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations. But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the previous perspectives.

The old saying is very true, "you can always tell a leader (or pioneer)
by the arrows in their back".

Lynn


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

I am amazed at that statement. Musk started SpaceX, hired the people, >provided the funding, etc. Show me anything that truly disputes those
facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

He gets credit for that, and he is certainly a visionary. (Note that this
is not the case for Tesla, which he takes credit for founding, but which he actually bought out).

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations. But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the previous >perspectives.

This is certainly true. This has some good points and some bad points, and some of the bad points involve ignoring collateral damage.

I give him credit for being a visionary, but he's no Delos Harriman and he isn't an idealist. But he did go out on a limb on a project that he himself gave only a 10% chance of succeeding. He has created a functioning space operations company, and it's doing pretty well and he deserves credit for that, but he also deserves to pay his taxes like the rest of us.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/13/26 16:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/13/2026 5:55 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

?SpaceX?
ÿÿÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot,
taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this
morning?s launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a
space program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex-
launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-weeks-
photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.ÿ Starship will be
flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.ÿ Sounds like a plan to
me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk. Even
though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general, Musk
himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an oligarchy
or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He should drop dead!"

I am amazed at that statement.ÿ Musk started SpaceX, hired the people, provided the funding, etc.ÿ Show me anything that truly disputes those
facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations.ÿ But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the previous perspectives.

The old saying is very true, "you can always tell a leader (or pioneer)
by the arrows in their back".

Lynn

And you can always tell a draft dodger by the company he keeps. He dodged the South African draft and Trump dodged the American draft.
So they have something at least in common besides love of money.

You can tell a overly rich man with dynastic ambitions by the political
parties he supports and the number of offspring he spawns.

I am glad he is doing SpaceX but I think that he should step
away from any position he is awarded in the US Government because he
is doing business with that same government. I hope he gets to
immigrate to Mars which is my evil side speaking up.

I wish he would finish fixing the autonomous business with
Telsa by either dropping any claims to autonomy r hiring enough coders
and testers to make it work. I am always reading about Tesla buyers
who feeling secure n the alleged autonomy that they go to sleep and get killed.

Meanwhile in San Francisco we see Waymo cars running about
the streets and being improved but the best improvement for Waymo
and similar autonomous vehicles was being barred from the prime
viewing areas during Fleet Week. Heavy traffic is confusing to this
paragons of vehicular operation.

bliss




--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/13/26 16:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/13/2026 5:55 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

?SpaceX?
ÿÿÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot,
taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this
morning?s launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a
space program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex-
launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-weeks-
photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.ÿ Starship will be
flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.ÿ Sounds like a plan to
me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk. Even
though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general, Musk
himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an oligarchy
or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He should drop dead!"

I am amazed at that statement.ÿ Musk started SpaceX, hired the people, provided the funding, etc.ÿ Show me anything that truly disputes those
facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations.ÿ But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the previous perspectives.

The old saying is very true, "you can always tell a leader (or pioneer)
by the arrows in their back".

Lynn

I did not say that SpaceX was a bad thing or that it had not made huge
strides in space flight. It did. I worked on projects that flew on
SpaceX (and with the Russians at times) up to the ISS.

But you didn't address what I said about trying to establish an
oligarchy or kleptocracy. The damage he did with DOGE and the damage he
is doing with dumping hundreds of millions into elections could turn
this country into something we don't recognize. That is certainly the
aim of what he and his ilk are doing.

--
----------------

Dave Scruggs
Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/15/2026 1:05 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 16:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/13/2026 5:55 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

?SpaceX?
ÿÿÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot,
taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this
morning?s launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a
space program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex-
launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-
weeks- photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.ÿ Starship will be
flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.ÿ Sounds like a plan
to me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk.
Even though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general,
Musk himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an
oligarchy or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He
should drop dead!"

I am amazed at that statement.ÿ Musk started SpaceX, hired the people,
provided the funding, etc.ÿ Show me anything that truly disputes those
facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations.ÿ But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the
previous perspectives.

The old saying is very true, "you can always tell a leader (or
pioneer) by the arrows in their back".

Lynn

I did not say that SpaceX was a bad thing or that it had not made huge strides in space flight. It did. I worked on projects that flew on
SpaceX (and with the Russians at times) up to the ISS.

But you didn't address what I said about trying to establish an
oligarchy or kleptocracy. The damage he did with DOGE and the damage he
is doing with dumping hundreds of millions into elections could turn
this country into something we don't recognize. That is certainly the
aim of what he and his ilk are doing.

I still disagree with you.

Lynn


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

On 10/15/2026 1:05 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 16:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/13/2026 5:55 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

?SpaceX?
ÿÿÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot,
taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this
morning?s launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a
space program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex- >>>>> launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-
weeks- photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.ÿ Starship will be >>>>> flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.ÿ Sounds like a plan
to me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk.
Even though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general, >>>> Musk himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an
oligarchy or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He
should drop dead!"

I am amazed at that statement.ÿ Musk started SpaceX, hired the people,
provided the funding, etc.ÿ Show me anything that truly disputes those
facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations.ÿ But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the
previous perspectives.

The old saying is very true, "you can always tell a leader (or
pioneer) by the arrows in their back".

Lynn

I did not say that SpaceX was a bad thing or that it had not made huge
strides in space flight. It did. I worked on projects that flew on
SpaceX (and with the Russians at times) up to the ISS.

But you didn't address what I said about trying to establish an
oligarchy or kleptocracy. The damage he did with DOGE and the damage he
is doing with dumping hundreds of millions into elections could turn
this country into something we don't recognize. That is certainly the
aim of what he and his ilk are doing.

I still disagree with you.

Which doesn't make your opinion valid.

The damage to the US relations with the rest of the world
will take a decade to recover, if it ever does.

International trade has been, probably, permanently damaged
(exhibit 1, the EU countries are removing their dependence
upon US companies such as microsoft, google et alia, which
once done, will likely be permanent). The US car companies
have basically no international buyers.

Trust has been lost, international trade crippled by the
american liar-in-chief.

Not to mention his ridiculous hatred of windmills and the
100% tariffs on foreign electric cars and elimination of
regulations regarding pollution, etc.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/15/2026 2:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

On 10/15/2026 1:05 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 16:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/13/2026 5:55 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

?SpaceX?
ÿÿÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

?DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot,
taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this
morning?s launch.?

?That man is single handedly reviving America?s aspirations of a
space program.?

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex- >>>>>> launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-
weeks- photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.ÿ Starship will be >>>>>> flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.ÿ Sounds like a plan >>>>>> to me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk.
Even though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general, >>>>> Musk himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an
oligarchy or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He
should drop dead!"

I am amazed at that statement.ÿ Musk started SpaceX, hired the people, >>>> provided the funding, etc.ÿ Show me anything that truly disputes those >>>> facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations.ÿ But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the
previous perspectives.

The old saying is very true, "you can always tell a leader (or
pioneer) by the arrows in their back".

Lynn

I did not say that SpaceX was a bad thing or that it had not made huge
strides in space flight. It did. I worked on projects that flew on
SpaceX (and with the Russians at times) up to the ISS.

But you didn't address what I said about trying to establish an
oligarchy or kleptocracy. The damage he did with DOGE and the damage he
is doing with dumping hundreds of millions into elections could turn
this country into something we don't recognize. That is certainly the
aim of what he and his ilk are doing.

I still disagree with you.

Which doesn't make your opinion valid.

The damage to the US relations with the rest of the world
will take a decade to recover, if it ever does.

International trade has been, probably, permanently damaged
(exhibit 1, the EU countries are removing their dependence
upon US companies such as microsoft, google et alia, which
once done, will likely be permanent). The US car companies
have basically no international buyers.

Trust has been lost, international trade crippled by the
american liar-in-chief.

Not to mention his ridiculous hatred of windmills and the
100% tariffs on foreign electric cars and elimination of
regulations regarding pollution, etc.

Shoot, I am surprised that you are not happy with Trump. He has managed
to get crude oil up to $93 from $60 and natural gas above $3 from $2
here in the USA. I did not think anything could cause energy prices to
rise in the USA, short of a world war. I was wrong.

BTW, wind turbines suck. I had a 700 footer about 20 miles away from my
house shuck a blade the other day. Very impressive looking to see that
250+ foot blade folded in half.

Lynn


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Scott Lurndal wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

On 10/15/2026 1:05 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 16:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/13/2026 5:55 PM, BCFD 36 wrote:

On 10/13/26 14:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:

ƒ??SpaceXƒ??
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ https://areaocho.com/spacex/

ƒ??DD Harriman XXXXXXXXXX Elon Musk is at it again. This is a shot, >>>>>> taken through the screen on my birdcage as you can tell, of this
morningƒ??s launch.ƒ??

ƒ??That man is single handedly reviving Americaƒ??s aspirations of a >>>>>> space program.ƒ??

This was a Falcon 9 launch early this morning. Freaking awesome.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/spacex- >>>>>> launches-falcon-9-starlink-mission-for-1st-time-in-more-than-3-
weeks- photo

And Starship is planning to fly from Florida soon.?ÿ Starship will be >>>>>> flying from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida now.?ÿ Sounds like a plan >>>>>> to me.

Lynn

I don't know how much of this can be directly attributed to Musk.
Even though SpaceX is making a huge contribution to Space in general, >>>>> Musk himself is trying his damnedest to make this country into an
oligarchy or maybe a kleptocracy. I have a friend who said, "He
should drop dead!"

I am amazed at that statement.?ÿ Musk started SpaceX, hired the people, >>>> provided the funding, etc.?ÿ Show me anything that truly disputes those >>>> facts that is not being screamed by the rabble.

SpaceX is built on the shoulders of Wernher von Braun, the USA Air
Force, NASA, and many other people and organizations.?ÿ But SpaceX is
coming at space from a business perspective, different from the
previous perspectives.

The old saying is very true, "you can always tell a leader (or
pioneer) by the arrows in their back".

Lynn

I did not say that SpaceX was a bad thing or that it had not made huge
strides in space flight. It did. I worked on projects that flew on
SpaceX (and with the Russians at times) up to the ISS.

But you didn't address what I said about trying to establish an
oligarchy or kleptocracy. The damage he did with DOGE and the damage he
is doing with dumping hundreds of millions into elections could turn
this country into something we don't recognize. That is certainly the
aim of what he and his ilk are doing.

I still disagree with you.

Which doesn't make your opinion valid.

The damage to the US relations with the rest of the world
will take a decade to recover, if it ever does.

International trade has been, probably, permanently damaged
(exhibit 1, the EU countries are removing their dependence
upon US companies such as microsoft, google et alia, which
once done, will likely be permanent). The US car companies
have basically no international buyers.

If Trump gets his way on the auto issue, US cars will vanish from
Canada. They'd be much too expensive to run what with all the glass and
tire repair, repainting, and sudden fires. Unemployed auto workers have
to do something to pass the time, after all. The factories will be sold
to the Chinese, eventually.

The recent vile betrayal of Ukraine is causing Europeans to reconsider
their use of starlink. There is a European competitor who is,
naturally, now touting itself as the reliable provider. Ontario has
already cancelled a $100 million starlink contract.

Not good news when starlink is the only profitable part of spacex.

Trust has been lost, international trade crippled by the
american liar-in-chief.

Nobody trusts the US at all. It may be politic to pretend to, but you
know that sooner or later you will be betrayed, often for no reason.

Not to mention his ridiculous hatred of windmills and the
100% tariffs on foreign electric cars and elimination of
regulations regarding pollution, etc.

As a result of his absurd Iran war, the number of tankers actually
working has dropped somewhat. Shipping companies are hiking rates on
the remaining vessels. Apparently the cost of chartering a large tanker
to ship oil from the US to Europe was six million before the war, forty million now. That will eat into the extra money made from the high
price of oil.

Container ships are less of a problem as a smaller fraction of the fleet
has been trapped in the gulf. Prices have only risen 215 percent. But
the goods, unlike oil, haven't soared in price, so that extra cost hurts.


It's a complicated world. Who would have thought that one little war
would have such consequences? Aside from anyone who gave it a few
minutes thought, that is.

Shoot first, whine later.

William Hyde

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 16/10/2026 11:14, William Hyde wrote:
snip

The recent vile betrayal of Ukraine

It was Biden and the Democrat oligarchs who engineered the overthrow of
the pro-Russian government. Trump and the Republicans had nothing to
gain financially. Just vile greed again. I have not bothered to
investigate further but there have also been reports that his Department
of War has less bombs or missiles or whatever than their 'required' minimum.

I was gobsmacked by your shipping costs information, thank you.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 16/10/2026 08:51, Scott Lurndal wrote:

The damage to the US relations with the rest of the world
will take a decade to recover, if it ever does.

International trade has been, probably, permanently damaged

I can't see how one man can be responsible. Trump has Republican and
Oligarchic support and Vance will continue the same program if elected
so I think that that decade to recover that you estimate is not going to
begin any time soon.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Titus G wrote:

On 16/10/2026 08:51, Scott Lurndal wrote:

The damage to the US relations with the rest of the world
will take a decade to recover, if it ever does.

International trade has been, probably, permanently damaged

I can't see how one man can be responsible. Trump has Republican and Oligarchic support and Vance will continue the same program if elected
so I think that that decade to recover that you estimate is not going to begin any time soon.

The "damage" being described may not be damage at all. Machiavelli
observed that lasting alliances are frequently romanticized. He advised
rulers to view alliances pragmatically, even turning against former
partners when doing so served their interests and allowed them to
capitalize on the benefits already gained from the relationship.

--
Can you strip away so we may start again?
"There?s a switch and they don't
seem authentic or themselves. It
feels like I?m an unnecessary
body and it?s a waste of time to
even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <11asep9$30qej$4@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On 16/10/2026 11:14, William Hyde wrote:
snip

The recent vile betrayal of Ukraine

It was Biden and the Democrat oligarchs who engineered the overthrow of
the pro-Russian government. Trump and the Republicans had nothing to
gain financially.

Really? The original Orange Rebellion took place in 2004 (George W. Bush
was the US President at the time). The sequel, the Maidan Revolution,
took place in 2013-2014 (Biden might had been the VP, but I doubt that
he would had acted without President Obama's direction).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ?-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

William Hyde wrote:

If Trump gets his way on the auto issue, US cars will vanish from
Canada.ÿ They'd be much too expensive to run what with all the glass and tire repair, repainting, and sudden fires.ÿ Unemployed auto workers have
to do something to pass the time, after all.ÿ The factories will be sold
to the Chinese, eventually.

An update:


US made car sales in Canada are cratering already. Sales of US made
cars were 45% of the market in 2024. Now they are 28% and still falling.

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far this
year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are
dropping, in part due to price.

Not that any of this is good news for us. Just bad news for the US.

William Hyde

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far this >year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are >dropping, in part due to price.

Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far this >>year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are >>dropping, in part due to price.

Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

The nearby Massey Ferguson dealer switched to Kubota a couple of
decades ago. John Deere still sells the majority of tractors
around here (although I have a 20 year old Kubota B7800) in
California.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Scott Lurndal wrote:

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far this >>> year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are
dropping, in part due to price.

Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

The nearby Massey Ferguson dealer switched to Kubota a couple of
decades ago. John Deere still sells the majority of tractors
around here (although I have a 20 year old Kubota B7800) in
California.

Massey Ferguson was once a Canadian manufacturer of farm equipment. The
actor Raymond Massey (who played Lincoln) was of that family. But it
became a US firm long ago. Just part off our general nastiness.


William Hyde



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far this
year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are
dropping, in part due to price.

Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.
--scott

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

--
Can you strip away so we may start again?
"There?s a switch and they don't
seem authentic or themselves. It
feels like I?m an unnecessary
body and it?s a waste of time to
even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/16/2026 5:54 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Scott Lurndal wrote:

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

William Hydeÿ <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far
this
year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are
dropping, in part due to price.

Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore.ÿ The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms.ÿ This does not bode well.

The nearby Massey Ferguson dealer switched to Kubota a couple of
decades ago.ÿÿ John Deere still sells the majority of tractors
around here (although I have a 20 year old Kubota B7800) in
California.

Massey Ferguson was once a Canadian manufacturer of farm equipment.ÿ The actor Raymond Massey (who played Lincoln) was of that family. But it
became a US firm long ago. Just part off our general nastiness.

ObSF: Raymond Massey played John Cabal in the 1936
"Things To Come".

pt

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 17/10/2026 06:55, Robert Woodward wrote:

In article <11asep9$30qej$4@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

On 16/10/2026 11:14, William Hyde wrote:
snip

The recent vile betrayal of Ukraine

It was Biden and the Democrat oligarchs who engineered the overthrow of
the pro-Russian government. Trump and the Republicans had nothing to
gain financially.

Really? The original Orange Rebellion took place in 2004 (George W. Bush
was the US President at the time). The sequel, the Maidan Revolution,
took place in 2013-2014 (Biden might had been the VP, but I doubt that
he would had acted without President Obama's direction).

The democratically elected pro-Russian government was overthrown in
2014. Ukraine was regarded as the most corrupt country in the world. One
of the stated aims of the US, IMF and World Bank was to eliminate
corruption. When Hunter Biden's employers were being investigated by the Ukranian Attorney General, Joe Biden threatened to withhold one billion
in US aid unless the Attorney General was sacked.
Search YouTube to find the video where Joe openly boasts about this.

Try a simple web search for Biden Ukraine and declassified FBI files.
Or Biden Burisma.
Court documents stemming from Hunter Biden?s failed plea-bargain deal on federal criminal charges have revealed that income of more than $4.4
million, mostly from China and Ukraine, while paying no taxes in 2017
and 2018. In 2017 he received $500,000 from Burisma.

George Soros admits playing an integral part in the Ukraine crisis - CNN interview May 27, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSAArjOBf_c

"The Maidan massacre trial verdict in Ukraine in October 2023 confirmed
that many Maidan activists were killed and wounded and BBC and ARD TV journalists were shot at on February 20, 2014, not by Berkut or other
law enforcement but by snipers in Hotel Ukraina and other
Maidan-controlled locations, that this hotel was controlled by Maidan activists, including a far-right-linked Maidan company of snipers, that
Russian agents were not involved in the massacre, that there were no
massacre orders by President Yanukovych and his police and security
chiefs, and that EuroMaidan then was an armed rebellion, which involved
the massacre of the Berkut and Internal Troops." https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-67121-0_8

"Content analysis of synchronized videos, testimonies by several hundred witnesses, confessions by 14 self-admitted members of Maidan sniper
groups, and bullet hole locations show that both the police and
protesters were massacred by Maidan snipers located in Maidan-controlled buildings and areas." https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-67121-0_8

Ukraine is probably still the most corrupt country. It was owned by just
five oligarchs in 2014. Zelensky appeared in the Panama Papers. This
time last year two of his Cabinet Ministers, (Energy and Justice fled
from Ukraine to Israel with millions to avoid prosecution.

Ukraine has requested Israel extradite two suspects, Timur Mindich, a
close associate of the president, and businessman Oleksandr Tsukerman ?
are wanted in connection with the $100 million corruption scheme
centered around the state nuclear monopoly Energoatom.
The Kyiv Independent.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

Oxen are expensive and hard to maintain.
Big farm horses are friendly and good to hang out with but even more
expensive and harder to maintain.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/17/2026 6:12 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

Oxen are expensive and hard to maintain.
Big farm horses are friendly and good to hang out with but even more expensive and harder to maintain.
--scott

You forgot mules. Oh wait, mules are moody and dangerous. One of my
great grandfathers was killed in 1945 when a mule kicked him in the
stomach while he was plowing a field with two of them.

Lynn


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/17/2026 3:02 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/17/2026 6:12 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Blaineÿ <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hydeÿ <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not >>>> so much green Deere stuff anymore.ÿ The Deere stuff I do see abroad is >>>> mostly high end stuff in larger farms.ÿ This does not bode well.

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

Oxen are expensive and hard to maintain.
Big farm horses are friendly and good to hang out with but even more
expensive and harder to maintain.
--scott

You forgot mules.ÿ Oh wait, mules are moody and dangerous.ÿ One of my
great grandfathers was killed in 1945 when a mule kicked him in the
stomach while he was plowing a field with two of them.

Lynn

Switching from tractors to horses or mules would entail a 20% drop
in farm productivity, since you have to grow their fodder somewhere.

pt

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

Switching from tractors to horses or mules would entail a 20% drop
in farm productivity, since you have to grow their fodder somewhere.

True, but you do get free fertilizer in the case of oxen. Horse and mule
dung isn't as good for the soil though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In <11b0ktk$32t$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

Switching from tractors to horses or mules would entail a 20% drop
in farm productivity, since you have to grow their fodder somewhere.

True, but you do get free fertilizer in the case of oxen. Horse and mule >dung isn't as good for the soil though.
--scott

At least if it's Yak dung you can smoke it...

(iykyk)


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 10/17/2026 3:02 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/17/2026 6:12 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Blaineÿ <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hydeÿ <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not >>>>> so much green Deere stuff anymore.ÿ The Deere stuff I do see abroad is >>>>> mostly high end stuff in larger farms.ÿ This does not bode well.

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

Oxen are expensive and hard to maintain.
Big farm horses are friendly and good to hang out with but even more
expensive and harder to maintain.
--scott

You forgot mules.ÿ Oh wait, mules are moody and dangerous.ÿ One of my
great grandfathers was killed in 1945 when a mule kicked him in the
stomach while he was plowing a field with two of them.

Lynn

Switching from tractors to horses or mules would entail a 20% drop
in farm productivity, since you have to grow their fodder somewhere.

pt

I didn't actually witness a dearth of tractors. They may have had some
of them on the mainland. However, it was clearly a worker by worker task attending to the 20 ft by 20 ft rice paddies I observed. They just
aren't large enough to make tractors affordable.

--
Can you strip away so we may start again?
"There?s a switch and they don't
seem authentic or themselves. It
feels like I?m an unnecessary
body and it?s a waste of time to
even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/17/26 12:02, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/17/2026 6:12 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Blaineÿ <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hydeÿ <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not >>>> so much green Deere stuff anymore.ÿ The Deere stuff I do see abroad is >>>> mostly high end stuff in larger farms.ÿ This does not bode well.

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

Oxen are expensive and hard to maintain.
Big farm horses are friendly and good to hang out with but even more
expensive and harder to maintain.
--scott

You forgot mules.ÿ Oh wait, mules are moody and dangerous.ÿ One of my
great grandfathers was killed in 1945 when a mule kicked him in the
stomach while he was plowing a field with two of them.

Lynn

Yes mules are too smart and ornery. My Grandfather before I knew him but while my mom was growing up in the 1920s I guess had
his shoulder broken by a mule. The mule was smarter because blessed
GranPa returning from disabilty struck the mule with a two by four
and the mule broke his shoulder again. My Grandmother whom I never
knew in this life had to handle the beasts through two recoveries from
shoulder injuries and according to mom hated doing that.

Farmers need electric tractors for their wind farms to
charge.

bliss

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 18/10/2026 00:12, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

Oxen are expensive and hard to maintain.
Big farm horses are friendly and good to hang out with but even more expensive and harder to maintain.
--scott

In many of new Zealand's high country livestock farms, the terrain is
too steep and rough for anything with wheels so farm horses, but not
"big" ones, are still used for mustering and also by choice in places
where motorbikes could be used.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Titus G wrote:

On 18/10/2026 00:12, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not >>>> so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is >>>> mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

I saw people pre-tractor when I traveled outside the US.

Oxen are expensive and hard to maintain.
Big farm horses are friendly and good to hang out with but even more
expensive and harder to maintain.
--scott

In many of new Zealand's high country livestock farms, the terrain is
too steep and rough for anything with wheels so farm horses, but not
"big" ones, are still used for mustering and also by choice in places
where motorbikes could be used.

In land of pre-tractor, the fields are full of a water base. Tractors
would require pontoons and Musk style Tesla airjets to fly up & over to
an adjacent field. No one buys a tractor to cover 400 sq. feet. I've
heard of houses owned by people I know with more than 4,000 sq. feet.

So are we talking about Deere or Kubota for this project?

--
Can you strip away so we may start again?
"There?s a switch and they don't
seem authentic or themselves. It
feels like I?m an unnecessary
body and it?s a waste of time to
even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:

Scott Lurndal wrote:

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far this >>>> year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are
dropping, in part due to price.

Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not
so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is
mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

The nearby Massey Ferguson dealer switched to Kubota a couple of
decades ago. John Deere still sells the majority of tractors
around here (although I have a 20 year old Kubota B7800) in
California.

Massey Ferguson was once a Canadian manufacturer of farm equipment. The >actor Raymond Massey (who played Lincoln) was of that family. But it
became a US firm long ago. Just part off our general nastiness.

It's been part of AGCO for a long time now. Originally, it was
Massey Harris (my grandfather had a pull-behind MH combine).

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Scott Lurndal wrote:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:

Scott Lurndal wrote:

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

In related news, John Deere has spent 750 million on tariffs so far this >>>>> year and expects to spend 1.1 billion next year. Canadian sales are
dropping, in part due to price.

Everywhere I travel outside the US I see lots of Kubota stuff, and not >>>> so much green Deere stuff anymore. The Deere stuff I do see abroad is >>>> mostly high end stuff in larger farms. This does not bode well.

The nearby Massey Ferguson dealer switched to Kubota a couple of
decades ago. John Deere still sells the majority of tractors
around here (although I have a 20 year old Kubota B7800) in
California.

Massey Ferguson was once a Canadian manufacturer of farm equipment. The
actor Raymond Massey (who played Lincoln) was of that family. But it
became a US firm long ago. Just part off our general nastiness.

It's been part of AGCO for a long time now. Originally, it was
Massey Harris (my grandfather had a pull-behind MH combine).

I'd completely forgotten about the Harris family.

Not surprising as the Masseys played a more active role up here. Aside
from the actor and his brother (the Governor-General - a more or less
but not entirely symbolic head of state), they financed quite a number
of amenities here.

I still play bridge at Hart House, a U of Toronto building named after
Hart Massey, I heard many a concert at Massey hall, and resided for a
while at Massey College, again at U of Toronto. They financed other institutions of learning but kept the name off.

The company made about four thousand light tanks, and various artillery
pieces in WWII.

Conrad Black presided over its destruction, though he blamed everyone
else as he always does, perhaps with some reason this time.

Around 1900 the company was a political issue with regard to tariffs
imposed to protect Canadian manufacturing. The more things change ...

William Hyde

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <11b26nd$11jb8$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >In many of new Zealand's high country livestock farms, the terrain is

too steep and rough for anything with wheels so farm horses, but not
"big" ones, are still used for mustering and also by choice in places
where motorbikes could be used.

Makes sense. In Hawaii there are folks doing that kind of thing... I don't know what kind of horses but they aren't more than fourteen or fifteen hands some of them.

I was thinking more of big drafthorses. Even so it takes a dozen of them
to pull a modern four bottom plough.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)