On 6/27/2026 7:12 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
The word 'drone' covers a wide variety of UAVs, from stuff you
can launch from your hand, to something that's more like a cruise
missile, with a range over 1000 miles.
On 6/28/2026 11:16 AM, Paul S Person wrote:writes:
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 23:31:20 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/26/2026 9:27 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid>
Missile DefenseOn Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:54:47 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
?Hegseth Hails First Test of America?s ?Golden Dome?
$100,000Shield?
How much per missile? With ?Iron Dome? it?s something like
thatper shot, as I recall. This to defend against barrages of cheap
attacking missiles that can be made for something like a thousand
dollars each.
The biggest problem with Hegseth's/Trump's fantasy golden dome is
forgetaboutit.it will never work for a mass attack. The orbital intercepters,
orbiting at low-earth altitudes, will need to blanket the globe. Handling
a single incoming warhead is possible. Handling a swarm,
And then there are the drones, which are even cheaper and cannot be
stopped with missile defence systems.
As shown in Ukraine.
So we are back to many multiple gigawatt lasers on the ground and in orbit.
Or to no affordable defense at all.
The most expensive defense is that of the loser in war because they lost
it all.
A single ICBM getting through to the USA would cost in the trillions in >damages and require a blistering response.
On 6/27/2026 7:12 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 14:35:19 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 6/26/2026 8:51 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:45:03 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
The F-18s are taking out drones routinely in Hormuz Straits.
Further thought about that: how much does it cost to operate an
F-18? $1000/hour? (I suspect more.)
You're not even close. The Official DoD Reimbursement Rate for a
single seat, F/A-18E Super Hornet is $17,584/hour.
That includes ground maintenance, fuel, crew compensation, and
some other operational costs. It does not include weapons.
I figured I was off, but not by that much ...
Clarke?s ?Superiority? story *definitely* did not take this sort of
thing into account.
So every time they fire a missile, that?ll be another few grand being
totted up on the till, I suppose ...
How much does it cost to make and launch one of those drones?
$1000?
I suspect this figure of mine is not so far off.
So each F-18 should be taking out about one drone per hour to make it
a fair fight, economically speaking. Are they really doing that much?
So that would have to be 10-20 drones per hour. I doubt they are
anywhere close to that.
And if their anti-drone missiles cost more than the drones they are
shooting down (which seems very likely), then there is no way to make
this an economically fair fight: the more missiles the ?? fighters
shoot down, the deeper in the red the whole account becomes.
The word 'drone' covers a wide variety of UAVs, from stuff you
can launch from your hand, to something that's more like a cruise
missile, with a range over 1000 miles. Ukraine is sending drones to
Moscow and St. Petersburg, and taking out oil refineries.
On Sun, 28 Jun 2026 13:58:57 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo interesting stuff>
On 6/27/2026 7:12 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
The word 'drone' covers a wide variety of UAVs, from stuff you
can launch from your hand, to something that's more like a cruise
missile, with a range over 1000 miles.
I think we can take it that all of NATO has analysts studying what the Ukrainians (and Russians) are doing with drones. I would not be
surprised if some Ukrainian officers have been imported to various
Officer training facilities to give lectures to future staff officers
and combat-unit commanders, as these are clearly going to have to
understand the uses of drones.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have better information? If so, please enlighten me.
1. The Pakistanis have some nukes, likely more than a hundred, and they are based on both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. Yes, they are heavy, but they are not hundreds of tons heavy. Watch the videos of the setup for the Trinity Test.
Most importantly, they have actually tested some of them so we can be assured they will work.
2. Israel has some bombs. As many as 100? Probably not, but close. They are likely plutonium bombs and so a bit more convenient. Israel has probably never tested any of them, so there's no assurance they will work when needed. It's possible they did a shared test in '79 but nobody is sure.
3. Iran doesn't have any bombs. Before this war, they had some uranium enriched to 60% and at one point they had facilities to enrich farther.
They don't have any source of plutonium although they are wanting to build some power reactors which will produce plutonium as a byproduct. What has been lost in the war is still not very well known.
The nice thing about plutonium is that it can just be separated chemically and there isn't the difficulty of separating isotopes.
At this point delivery systems are a non-issue. You put a bomb into a box and have fedex ship it to your enemy. Just like horsehoes, you only need to get close, you don't need to be right on the target.
--scott
The most expensive defense is that of the loser in war because they lost
it all.
A single ICBM getting through to the USA would cost in the trillions in
damages and require a blistering response.
We don't need a multi-quadrillion (if not quintillion) defense system
for that. /That/ we can get with no defense system at all.
And, as you have noted, so long as "they" believe there will be a
blistering response, our time-tested but boring defense system ("MAD")
will work just fine.
One particular issue is that rapidly evacuating wounded to the rear
is often impossible - it must be done under cover of darkness, or in
bad weather.
It worked in the eighties. We outspent the Soviets on the cold war
until they couldn't make their economy function. Few shots were
fired.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 06:40:12 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:
It worked in the eighties. We outspent the Soviets on the cold war
until they couldn't make their economy function. Few shots were
fired.
It worked because both sides were thinking along the same lines in
terms of weapons doctrine: ICBMs, jet fighters, jet bombers, tanks,
aircraft carriers, submarines, all that kind of thing.
On 6/29/2026 5:52 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Trump has stated that Iran has five nuclear weapons and then he shut up.
The size and type have not been stated, nor any other details. I
cannot find where I read this a couple of weeks ago.
On 6/29/2026 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
...
The most expensive defense is that of the loser in war because they lost >>> it all.
A single ICBM getting through to the USA would cost in the trillions in
damages and require a blistering response.
We don't need a multi-quadrillion (if not quintillion) defense system
for that. /That/ we can get with no defense system at all.
And, as you have noted, so long as "they" believe there will be a
blistering response, our time-tested but boring defense system ("MAD")
will work just fine.
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Trump has stated that Iran has five nuclear weapons and then he shut
up.
One of the smartest and most cost effective (financially and
politically) actions was the IMMENSE amount of money and resources
pumped into West Berlin.
The East Germans were (aside from the privileged few) living in
pisspoor conditions, cold, little to eat, broken down buildings,
etc.
They'd look across the Wall to West Berlin and see working
streetlights, private cars, people walking around at all hours,
restuarants open overnight, and even people dropping spare food on
the sidewalks.
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
The basic Triumph of Capitalism, certainly.
One area where that doesn?t work: healthcare. The world?s number-one
promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the
health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more >?socialist?-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.
?Soft power? can work both ways ...
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 15:41:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Question: do you think the religious leadership that the US and Israel succeeded in obliterating was more, or less, crazy than the IRGC folks
who seem to be in charge now?
On 6/28/2026 12:10 AM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/26/2026 9:39 PM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:51:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
I think that Israel will end up saying screw it and nuking Iran.
That would make them even less popular than they are already. JD Vance >>>>> already said the quiet part out loud:
ÿÿÿÿ ?Donald J. Trump is the only head of state in the entire world >>>>> who
ÿÿÿÿ is sympathetic to the nation of Israel at this moment in time. >>>>> And
ÿÿÿÿ he happens to be the head of state of the world's superpower.
If I
ÿÿÿÿ was in the cabinet of the Israeli government, I might not be
ÿÿÿÿ attacking the only powerful ally I have left.?
Any use of nukes would bring the Security Council down hard. The US
would find it very hard to resist the pressure not to veto any
resolution on action against Israel.
Particularly since the whole Iran affair is already reaching the
limits of the ??President?s somewhat short attention span ...
Forget the security council. If Israel nukes Iran- and especially if
they target any of the holy cities- I am betting there would be a
response in kind from Pakistan- who has a lot more nukes than Israel.
Chris
How do you know this?
And does Pakistan have delivery systems for their antiquated ultra
heavy nuclear weapons that weigh around ten tons each?
The Israelis have several cruise missile 200 kt nuclear weapons on
each of their submarines.
ÿÿÿ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-class_submarine
Lynn
Ten tons.
You've been sucking petro fumes too long.
Chris
Do you have better information?ÿ If so, please enlighten me.
Lynn
While there's certaiknly a lot of (arguable) validity to preferring,
maybe... the healthcare systems in Canada, a big chunk of Europe,
and lots of other places to the US ...
the only one who says Cuba is better is... Micheal Moore...
On 6/29/2026 9:57 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 15:41:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Question: do you think the religious leadership that the US and
Israel succeeded in obliterating was more, or less, crazy than the
IRGC folks who seem to be in charge now?
All five of the leaderships in Iran were and are crazy. The USA and
Israel have killed off four sets of leaders in Iran now. I suspect
that the fifth set is marked for destruction now.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 22:10:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/29/2026 9:57 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 15:41:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Question: do you think the religious leadership that the US and
Israel succeeded in obliterating was more, or less, crazy than the
IRGC folks who seem to be in charge now?
All five of the leaderships in Iran were and are crazy. The USA and
Israel have killed off four sets of leaders in Iran now. I suspect
that the fifth set is marked for destruction now.
You haven?t said whether you think things are getting better or worse.
On 6/29/2026 11:54 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 22:10:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/29/2026 9:57 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 15:41:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Question: do you think the religious leadership that the US and
Israel succeeded in obliterating was more, or less, crazy than
the IRGC folks who seem to be in charge now?
All five of the leaderships in Iran were and are crazy. The USA
and Israel have killed off four sets of leaders in Iran now. I
suspect that the fifth set is marked for destruction now.
You haven?t said whether you think things are getting better or
worse.
Crazy is a level all of its own. There is only one level.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 6/29/2026 5:52 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Trump has stated that Iran has five nuclear
weapons and then he shut up. The size and
type have not been stated, nor any other
details. I cannot find where I read this a
couple of weeks ago.
You probably read it on the gateway dumbshit
site, or perhaps whats not up with that or
the falun gong mountpiece. All of which you've
quoted repeatedly, none of which are known for
accurate reporting.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 6/29/2026 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
What is your definition of 'crazy'?
How does it differ from Trump, Putin or Kim?
The basic Triumph of Capitalism, certainly.
One area where that doesn't work: healthcare. The world's number-one
promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the
health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more >'socialists;-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 15:41:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Question: do you think the religious leadership that the US and Israel >succeeded in obliterating was more, or less, crazy than the IRGC folks
who seem to be in charge now?
While there's certaiknly a lot of (arguable) validity to preferring,
maybe... the healthcare systems in Canada, a big chunk of Europe, and
lots of other places to the US, the only one who says Cuba is better
is... Micheal Moore...
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 6/29/2026 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
What is your definition of 'crazy'?
How does it differ from Trump, Putin or Kim?
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
The basic Triumph of Capitalism, certainly.
One area where that doesn't work: healthcare. The world's number-one >>promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the >>health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more >>'socialists;-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.
Capitalism works because of competition. When there is no competition, >because the industry is dominated by a small number of companies that are
all run by friends of one another, it all falls apart.
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/28/2026 12:10 AM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/26/2026 9:39 PM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:51:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
I think that Israel will end up saying screw it and nuking Iran.
That would make them even less popular than they are already. JD Vance >>>>>> already said the quiet part out loud:
ÿÿÿÿ ?Donald J. Trump is the only head of state in the entire world >>>>>> who
ÿÿÿÿ is sympathetic to the nation of Israel at this moment in time. >>>>>> And
ÿÿÿÿ he happens to be the head of state of the world's superpower. >>>>>> If I
ÿÿÿÿ was in the cabinet of the Israeli government, I might not be
ÿÿÿÿ attacking the only powerful ally I have left.?
Any use of nukes would bring the Security Council down hard. The US >>>>>> would find it very hard to resist the pressure not to veto any
resolution on action against Israel.
Particularly since the whole Iran affair is already reaching the
limits of the ??President?s somewhat short attention span ...
Forget the security council. If Israel nukes Iran- and especially if >>>>> they target any of the holy cities- I am betting there would be a
response in kind from Pakistan- who has a lot more nukes than Israel. >>>>>
Chris
How do you know this?
And does Pakistan have delivery systems for their antiquated ultra
heavy nuclear weapons that weigh around ten tons each?
The Israelis have several cruise missile 200 kt nuclear weapons on
each of their submarines.
ÿÿÿ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-class_submarine
Lynn
Ten tons.
You've been sucking petro fumes too long.
Chris
Do you have better information?ÿ If so, please enlighten me.
Lynn
Google "Pakistan nuclear weapons"
You'll see that their warheads are mounted on short, medium and
intermediate range ballistic missiles.
A typical missile is the Ababeel which carries 3 MIRVs of 500kg each.
Other warheads are mounted on cruise missiles launched from Mirage
fighters- which absolutely do not have a payload of 10 tons.
Now, why don't you tell us where you got such a preposterous number of
10 tons?
They seem crazy because they are so
poorly-informed and they have no idea what is
going on outside their own office.
Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> writes:Vance
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/28/2026 12:10 AM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/26/2026 9:39 PM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:51:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
I think that Israel will end up saying screw it and nuking Iran. >>>>>>>That would make them even less popular than they are already. JD
head of state in the entire worldalready said the quiet part out loud:
ÿÿÿÿ ?Donald J. Trump is the only
at this moment in time.who
ÿÿÿÿ is sympathetic to the nation of Israel
the world's superpower.And
ÿÿÿÿ he happens to be the head of state of
government, I might not beIf I
ÿÿÿÿ was in the cabinet of the Israeli
left.??ÿÿÿÿ attacking the only powerful ally I have
US
Any use of nukes would bring the Security Council down hard. The
somewhat short attention span ...would find it very hard to resist the pressure not to veto any
resolution on action against Israel.
Particularly since the whole Iran affair is already reaching the >>>>>>> limits of the ??President?s
if
Forget the security council. If Israel nukes Iran- and especially
Israel.they target any of the holy cities- I am betting there would be a >>>>>> response in kind from Pakistan- who has a lot more nukes than
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-class_submarine
Chris
How do you know this?
And does Pakistan have delivery systems for their antiquated ultra
heavy nuclear weapons that weigh around ten tons each?
The Israelis have several cruise missile 200 kt nuclear weapons on
each of their submarines.
ÿÿÿ
Lynn
Ten tons.
You've been sucking petro fumes too long.
Chris
Do you have better information?ÿ If so, please enlighten me.
Lynn
Google "Pakistan nuclear weapons"
You'll see that their warheads are mounted on short, medium and >>intermediate range ballistic missiles.
A typical missile is the Ababeel which carries 3 MIRVs of 500kg each.
Other warheads are mounted on cruise missiles launched from Mirage >>fighters- which absolutely do not have a payload of 10 tons.
Now, why don't you tell us where you got such a preposterous number of
10 tons?
Indeed, even Fat Man and little boy were only 10,000 pounds each.
Perhaps Lynn confused yield with weight?
On 6/29/2026 10:35 AM, Paul S Person wrote:lost
...
The most expensive defense is that of the loser in war because they
init all.
A single ICBM getting through to the USA would cost in the trillions
damages and require a blistering response.
We don't need a multi-quadrillion (if not quintillion) defense system
for that. /That/ we can get with no defense system at all.
And, as you have noted, so long as "they" believe there will be a
blistering response, our time-tested but boring defense system ("MAD")
will work just fine.
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:Khomeni,
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 15:41:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
MAD does not work with crazies such as Iran.
Question: do you think the religious leadership that the US and Israel >>succeeded in obliterating was more, or less, crazy than the IRGC folks
who seem to be in charge now?
Religious leaderships are by definition crazy, in that they are all >convinced of their righteousness and that what happens in this world is
less important than what happens to them in the afterlife. This leads
to decisions that are not beneficial to what is happening in this world. >Whether or not they are beneficial to leaders in the afterlife is not a >question I care to answer.
That goes for the IGRC, the revolutionary government of the first
and the administration in Israel. It may or may not apply to the US >government on any given day.completely
Because inherently irrational governments are so common, MAD is quite >frequently going to be ineffective. MAD depends on people being
rational in ways that only Henry Kissinger could ever believe.
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
The basic Triumph of Capitalism, certainly.
One area where that doesn't work: healthcare. The world's number-one >>>promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the >>>health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more >>>'socialists;-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.
Capitalism works because of competition. When there is no competition,
arebecause the industry is dominated by a small number of companies that
all run by friends of one another, it all falls apart.
Which we learned a century ago, which resulted in busting all
the trusts. Which seem to have returned, sadly.
Along with the gambling market (used to be called the stock market).
Oh for the days when a stock simply paid a regular dividend and wasn't >subject to manipulation on the secondary market[*]. One might wonder
if total capitalization, as measured by the stock price is even a
meaningful metric.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 15:51:40 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:
One particular issue is that rapidly evacuating wounded to the rear
is often impossible - it must be done under cover of darkness, or in
bad weather.
Are they shooting at ambulances as well?
I thought certain of the Geneva Conventions had something to say about
that ...
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 6/29/2026 5:52 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Trump has stated that Iran has five nuclear weapons and then he shut up.
The size and type have not been stated, nor any other details. I
cannot find where I read this a couple of weeks ago.
You probably read it on the gateway dumbshit site, or perhaps whats
not up with that or the falun gong mountpiece. All of which you've
quoted repeatedly, none of which are known for accurate reporting.
In article <XRE0S.376797$ipI1.15801@fx15.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 6/29/2026 5:52 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Trump has stated that Iran has five nuclear weapons and then he shut up. >>> The size and type have not been stated, nor any other details. I
cannot find where I read this a couple of weeks ago.
You probably read it on the gateway dumbshit site, or perhaps whats
not up with that or the falun gong mountpiece. All of which you've
quoted repeatedly, none of which are known for accurate reporting.
I am being misquoted here. I did not say any of this.
--scott
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
The basic Triumph of Capitalism, certainly.
One area where that doesn't work: healthcare. The world's number-one
promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the
health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more
'socialists;-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.
Capitalism works because of competition. When there is no competition,
because the industry is dominated by a small number of companies that are
all run by friends of one another, it all falls apart.
Which we learned a century ago, which resulted in busting all
the trusts. Which seem to have returned, sadly.
Along with the gambling market (used to be called the stock market).
Oh for the days when a stock simply paid a regular dividend and wasn't subject to manipulation on the secondary market[*].
if total capitalization, as measured by the stock price is even a
meaningful metric.
[*] derivative of derivatives of derivatives.....
Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> writes:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/28/2026 12:10 AM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/26/2026 9:39 PM, Chris Thompson wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 21:51:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
I think that Israel will end up saying screw it and nuking Iran. >>>>>>>That would make them even less popular than they are already. JD Vance >>>>>>> already said the quiet part out loud:
ÿÿÿÿ ?Donald J. Trump is the only head of state in the entire world >>>>>>> who
ÿÿÿÿ is sympathetic to the nation of Israel at this moment in time. >>>>>>> And
ÿÿÿÿ he happens to be the head of state of the world's superpower. >>>>>>> If I
ÿÿÿÿ was in the cabinet of the Israeli government, I might not be >>>>>>> ÿÿÿÿ attacking the only powerful ally I have left.?
Any use of nukes would bring the Security Council down hard. The US >>>>>>> would find it very hard to resist the pressure not to veto any
resolution on action against Israel.
Particularly since the whole Iran affair is already reaching the >>>>>>> limits of the ??President?s somewhat short attention span ...
Forget the security council. If Israel nukes Iran- and especially if >>>>>> they target any of the holy cities- I am betting there would be a
response in kind from Pakistan- who has a lot more nukes than Israel. >>>>>>
Chris
How do you know this?
And does Pakistan have delivery systems for their antiquated ultra
heavy nuclear weapons that weigh around ten tons each?
The Israelis have several cruise missile 200 kt nuclear weapons on
each of their submarines.
ÿÿÿ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-class_submarine
Lynn
Ten tons.
You've been sucking petro fumes too long.
Chris
Do you have better information?ÿ If so, please enlighten me.
Lynn
Google "Pakistan nuclear weapons"
You'll see that their warheads are mounted on short, medium and
intermediate range ballistic missiles.
A typical missile is the Ababeel which carries 3 MIRVs of 500kg each.
Other warheads are mounted on cruise missiles launched from Mirage
fighters- which absolutely do not have a payload of 10 tons.
Now, why don't you tell us where you got such a preposterous number of
10 tons?
Indeed, even Fat Man and little boy were only 10,000 pounds each.
Perhaps Lynn confused yield with weight?
On 6/30/2026 3:01 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article <XRE0S.376797$ipI1.15801@fx15.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 6/29/2026 5:52 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Trump has stated that Iran has five nuclear weapons and then he shut up. >>>> The size and type have not been stated, nor any other details. I
cannot find where I read this a couple of weeks ago.
You probably read it on the gateway dumbshit site, or perhaps whats
not up with that or the falun gong mountpiece. All of which you've
quoted repeatedly, none of which are known for accurate reporting.
I am being misquoted here. I did not say any of this.
--scott
If you count the '>' signs, its clear that Scott is attributing this
to Lynn.
It took me a while to realize that I should stick to stocks that
paid a dividend, because the dividend was a sign that they were
making real money (of course this means missing Amazon et al, but
also Yahoo at $400).
Capitalism works because of competition. When there is no
competition, because the industry is dominated by a small number of
companies that are all run by friends of one another, it all falls
apart.
On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 08:55:07 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:experimented
Capitalism works because of competition. When there is no
competition, because the industry is dominated by a small number of
companies that are all run by friends of one another, it all falls
apart.
Free-market competition is an inherently unstable state. Without
careful Government regulation, it can all too easily fall victim to
all kinds of anticompetitive practices -- predatory pricing, deceptive >advertising, buyouts of competitors to create monopolies, and even
just plain fraud.
But all this seems impossible to arrange with healthcare. Various
countries, from the ?Reagonomics? era onward (naturally)
with free-market models for delivering healthcare, but none of them
worked very well. Here in NZ at one point we had the district
hospitals organized into ?Crown Health Entities? which were supposed
to be run sort of like businesses, but all that is mercifully gone
now.
Right now, it looks like only the USA is left, still stubbornly
clinging to the idea that the market can be made to work for keeping
people healthy at a reasonable cost. And so you have that guy on trial
right now for murdering a health-insurance executive in cold blood,
and a massive amount of sympathy is going out to him, not his victim.
What is truly horrifying is not that so many people in the USA feel--
this way about health insurance company executives, but that they have
a point.
On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 08:55:07 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:
Capitalism works because of competition. When there is no
competition, because the industry is dominated by a small number of
companies that are all run by friends of one another, it all falls
apart.
Free-market competition is an inherently unstable state. Without
careful Government regulation, it can all too easily fall victim to
all kinds of anticompetitive practices -- predatory pricing, deceptive >advertising, buyouts of competitors to create monopolies, and even
just plain fraud.
But all this seems impossible to arrange with healthcare. Various
countries, from the 'Reagonomics' era onward (naturally) experimented
with free-market models for delivering healthcare, but none of them
worked very well. Here in NZ at one point we had the district
hospitals organized into 'Crown Health Entities' which were supposed
to be run sort of like businesses, but all that is mercifully gone
now.
Right now, it looks like only the USA is left, still stubbornly
clinging to the idea that the market can be made to work for keeping
people healthy at a reasonable cost. And so you have that guy on trial
right now for murdering a health-insurance executive in cold blood,
and a massive amount of sympathy is going out to him, not his victim.
What is truly horrifying is not that so many people in the USA feel
this way about health insurance company executives, but that they have
a point.
In the current conflict of US-plus-Israel-versus-Iran, cost is playing
a big factor. Both the US and Israel have used up large portions of
their stocks of very complicated and expensive missiles and other
consumable weaponry. Whereas Iran...
Patriot missles? What's the big deal? A mere million bucks per shot,
pocket change, eh? Four million each, you say? Well, still...
I didn't know anything about patriot missles, hadda look it up. In
order to *use* them, you need a fleet -- half a dozen or so -- of
5-ton trucks, each sagging under a load of diesel, electronic and
hydraulic gear in addition to the actual launcher. Basic kit to
launch your first Patriot is a billion bucks, more if you're a non-US
entity buying the whole shebang from the US mfgrs.
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
Patriot missles? What's the big deal? A mere million bucks per shot,
pocket change, eh? Four million each, you say? Well, still...
I didn't know anything about patriot missles, hadda look it up. In
order to *use* them, you need a fleet -- half a dozen or so -- of
5-ton trucks, each sagging under a load of diesel, electronic and
hydraulic gear in addition to the actual launcher. Basic kit to
launch your first Patriot is a billion bucks, more if you're a non-US
entity buying the whole shebang from the US mfgrs.
How does it compare with the SA-2 in price? The SA-2 design is pretty
old but the Russians keep upgrading the tracking radars. I saw one of
the recent ones in Warsaw a couple years ago and it bears no resemblance
to the ones in Vietnam which killed so many American pilots.
--scott
My uncle's wingman was shot down with an SA-2 in 1965 over Hanoi.
On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 18:23:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
My uncle's wingman was shot down with an SA-2 in 1965 over Hanoi.
Who started *that* war, I wonder?
On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 23:54:09 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 18:23:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
My uncle's wingman was shot down with an SA-2 in 1965 over Hanoi.
Who started *that* war, I wonder?
The French, to be honest.
You don't understand.
In America, the function of healthcare is
to transfer money from The Rest of Us to
the 1%-ers.
Just like everything else.
On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 18:23:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
My uncle's wingman was shot down with an SA-2 in 1965 over Hanoi.
Who started *that* war, I wonder?
On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 18:23:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
My uncle's wingman was shot down with an SA-2 in 1965 over Hanoi.
Who started *that* war, I wonder?
One area where that doesn?t work: healthcare. The world?s number-one
promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the
health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more >?socialist?-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 18:23:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
My uncle's wingman was shot down with an SA-2 in 1965 over Hanoi.
Who started *that* war, I wonder?
The french.
Those in the 1% are neither more nor
less self-centrically despicable than those in
the 99%.
On Thu, 2 Jul 2026 14:36:23 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
wrote:
Those in the 1% are neither more nor
less self-centrically despicable than those in
the 99%.
This is true enough. And from Oliver Cromwell to
the French Revolution to the Soviet Union, we
certainly have seen how toppling a system that
exploited the poor failed to improve their lot.
However, this fundamental problem is inherently
difficult to solve. Some people who have
noted this problem have used it to promote the
following solution: we need to find Jesus!
My uncle came back the next day with a full load of 500 lb bombs and
Stuka dived from 40,000 feet to the mountain top where the SA-2 missile
base was. The SA-2 base could not fire the missiles straight up. My
uncle thought that he took off the top ten feet of the mountain top
along with the missile base.
The North Vietnam of Ho Chi Minh. North Vietnam supported Viet Cong insurgents who were seeking to overthrow the government of South
Vietnam, led by Ngo Dinh Diem, and in 1958 North Vietnam invaded
Laos to create the Ho Chi Minh trail.
Sadly, on June 29, 1973, the U. S. Congress betrayed the people of
South Vietnam, passing a law which barred the United States from
responding to further North Vietnamese aggression against their
country.
But the German Federal Republic had universal health care long
before the Berlin Wall fell.
On Thu, 02 Jul 2026 15:25:51 GMT, John Savard wrote:
The North Vietnam of Ho Chi Minh. North Vietnam supported Viet Cong
insurgents who were seeking to overthrow the government of South
Vietnam, led by Ngo Dinh Diem, and in 1958 North Vietnam invaded
Laos to create the Ho Chi Minh trail.
Sadly, on June 29, 1973, the U. S. Congress betrayed the people of
South Vietnam, passing a law which barred the United States from
responding to further North Vietnamese aggression against their
country.
A ?country? which was so weak and corrupt, it collapsed in just a
couple of years after that.
Think about that: why was the South not able to set up a corresponding >network of insurgents in the North? Because they couldn?t find enough
people loyal to their cause.
Because, with our usual proclivity for Strong Men and dictators, we
set up a South Vietnamese government of French-speaking Roman Catholic Northerners and never really understood why they were unable to govern
a country composed of Southern peasants who were Vietnamese-speaking Buddhists. And credited the Viet Minh with getting the French out.
But then, to us they /all/ were "gooks".
But then, to us they /all/ were "gooks".
On Fri, 3 Jul 2026 00:22:16 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2026 15:25:51 GMT, John Savard wrote:
The North Vietnam of Ho Chi Minh. North Vietnam supported Viet Cong
insurgents who were seeking to overthrow the government of South
Vietnam, led by Ngo Dinh Diem, and in 1958 North Vietnam invaded
Laos to create the Ho Chi Minh trail.
Sadly, on June 29, 1973, the U. S. Congress betrayed the people of
South Vietnam, passing a law which barred the United States from
responding to further North Vietnamese aggression against their
country.
A ?country? which was so weak and corrupt, it collapsed in just a
couple of years after that.
Think about that: why was the South not able to set up a corresponding >network of insurgents in the North? Because they couldn?t find enough >people loyal to their cause.
Because, with our usual proclivity for Strong Men and dictators, we
set up a South Vietnamese government of French-speaking Roman Catholic Northerners and never really understood why they were unable to govern
a country composed of Southern peasants who were Vietnamese-speaking Buddhists. And credited the Viet Minh with getting the French out.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:mideast,
But then, to us they /all/ were "gooks".
This was what lost the war for us, and it was what was wrong with our >response to 9-11 as well.
Winning a war seems easy. All you have to do is identify the enemy and
kill them. In far too many cases we have failed to do the first.
You can see this happening just as much in our current war in the
sadly.
Because, with our usual proclivity for Strong Men and dictators, we
set up a South Vietnamese government of French-speaking Roman Catholic Northerners and never really understood why they were unable to govern
a country composed of Southern peasants who were Vietnamese-speaking Buddhists. And credited the Viet Minh with getting the French out.
But then, to us they /all/ were "gooks".
On Thu, 02 Jul 2026 15:29:47 GMT, John Savard wrote:
But the German Federal Republic had universal health care long
before the Berlin Wall fell.
Of course. Much of Europe is able to do a similarly good job. And some >elsewhere, too.
But remember, in the eyes of many in the US, these are ?Socialist?
nations.
nations.
The most obvious response, of course, is to disclaim responsibility
for the inability of some Americans to use a dictionary. Socialism is
when the State owns the means of production. Neither a mixed economy
nor a welfare state is an example of that.
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