On Sun, 8 Feb 2026 17:18:19 -0500, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
wrote:

IIRC, Churchill offered (twice!) to cede Northern Ireland to Eire if
Eire would join the Allies. That didn't work either.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if so, he kept it out of his memoirs.

I'm pretty sure I read about that in Churchill's 6 volume history -
having access to the Irish west coast ports was thought to be able to
give Britain a decisive edge in the anti-U-boat war. Churchill only
mentions making that offer once. Can't remember specifically when he
said he made the offer but definitely well before Pearl Harbor.

(One of my most treasured book sets in my library was a hardcover
first edition of that series - not as valuable as it might be because
it doesn't have the original dust jackets but still a great collection
(though I had already read the series before I got that gift)

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 09 Feb 2026 09:05:09 -0800, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

It is suggested that the real problem was that Valera wanted a truly >/independent/ Ireland, while Churchill had a tightly-bound dominion in
mind.

There was also the minor problem of having to do with the toxic
terrorist politics in the North.

I should point out that, had the Germans had the ability to keep it
supplied, Eire would have made an /excellent/ fixed aircraft carrier
and staging area for an invasion of Britain. Also, IIRC, the Germans
had supported the Irish during WWI. So closing the door on that
possibility may or may not have been a factor. Probably not, as the
supply would have been by sea, and Britain still ruled the waves. At
least, they did in the vicinity of Ireland and Britain.

I didn't get that from what I read - what Churchill wanted was a close
naval alliance for the duration of the war only - Dev would be
completely free once victory was won. So said WSC anyhow.

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On Mon, 9 Feb 2026 14:27:39 -0500, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
wrote:

I'm sure the British considered just occupying them, but held off for a >variety of reasons, not least US public opinion. IIRC this option is
not mentioned in his memoirs, but then it would not have been politic to >mention it.

NEARLY ALL major powers had contingency plans for all sorts of
military situations and writing war plans was a common activity for
military cadets. (The point of writing these plans was to teach junior
officers how to write coherent orders)

Canada had a war plan for invasion of the US from 1867 to 1931 though
it was fortunate for Canada that the last plan was ever needed snce
it counted on 100,000+ troops from the UK - and a British staff
officer heard about the plan (after 1931) said that it was an
interesting plan but that the British Army never had ANY plans for ANY
troops in Canada after the end of the war of 1812.

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On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:00:45 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Mon, 9 Feb 2026 14:27:39 -0500, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
wrote:

I'm sure the British considered just occupying them, but held off for a

variety of reasons, not least US public opinion. IIRC this option is
not mentioned in his memoirs, but then it would not have been politic

to

mention it.

NEARLY ALL major powers had contingency plans for all sorts of
military situations and writing war plans was a common activity for
military cadets. (The point of writing these plans was to teach junior >officers how to write coherent orders)

And still do.

Well, unless Hegseth burned them all or something.

One, written in the 30s, about a war with Japan was a pretty accurate prediction of how the war would go, particularly the path of the
Allied advance through the Pacific. Of course, it was based on
Battleships, while the real war was based on Fleet Aircraft Carriers.

Canada had a war plan for invasion of the US from 1867 to 1931 though
it was fortunate for Canada that the last plan was ever needed snce
it counted on 100,000+ troops from the UK - and a British staff
officer heard about the plan (after 1931) said that it was an
interesting plan but that the British Army never had ANY plans for ANY
troops in Canada after the end of the war of 1812.

Yes, well, the thing about plans is that they often do not survive
contact with reality.

This, of course, is based on von Moltke <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_von_Moltke_the_Elder#Moltke's_theo ry_of_war>:
"no plan survives contact with the enemy".
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

The Horny Goat wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2026 17:18:19 -0500, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
wrote:

IIRC, Churchill offered (twice!) to cede Northern Ireland to Eire if
Eire would join the Allies. That didn't work either.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if so, he kept it out of his memoirs.

I'm pretty sure I read about that in Churchill's 6 volume history -
having access to the Irish west coast ports was thought to be able to
give Britain a decisive edge in the anti-U-boat war. Churchill only
mentions making that offer once. Can't remember specifically when he
said he made the offer but definitely well before Pearl Harbor.

Yes, that is my source.

William Hyde

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:00:45 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

NEARLY ALL major powers had contingency plans for all sorts of
military situations and writing war plans was a common activity for >>military cadets. (The point of writing these plans was to teach junior >>officers how to write coherent orders)

And still do.

Well, unless Hegseth burned them all or something.

One, written in the 30s, about a war with Japan was a pretty accurate >prediction of how the war would go, particularly the path of the
Allied advance through the Pacific. Of course, it was based on
Battleships, while the real war was based on Fleet Aircraft Carriers.

My father talked about this room at the Pentagon filled with file cabinets
of various war plans, all filed with various reference cards so that
the JCS could pull them up given any event.

Although he said that when the Prague Spring happened, nobody had any kind
of plans for something like that in the files.

How useful these plans are might be questionable since the enemy never
acts quite the way you expect them to. But they are a good start in
case of war.

Some of these plans are in the football so that if the president decides
to start dropping nuclear bombs, he can select a pre-approved plan like
"Wing Attack Plan R" and order it with the key. But the president cannot
just decide to drop a bomb on some random location that isn't in a
pre-approved plan. I'd be curious to know what the choices are today.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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