• Pearls Before Swine: I Don't Want A Civil War

    From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, March 15, 2026 15:54:38
    Pearls Before Swine: I Don't Want A Civil War
    https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2026/03/15

    Nice try.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, March 15, 2026 15:16:58

    On 3/15/26 13:54, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    Pearls Before Swine: I Don't Want A Civil War
    ÿÿ https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2026/03/15

    Nice try.

    Lynn

    That is good but civil wars would be hugs and handshakes
    but instead wars within polities are seldom anything but uncivil with
    few exception usually between individuals who respect their opponents.

    The first American Civil War was the Revolutionary War where
    the revolting colonists and the loyal to the king colonists murdered
    each other. The second Civil War which is called "The Civil War" was
    over slavery and nothing else. The leaders of the Confederacy were
    as short-sighted as Trump is today or they would not have tried to
    escape the Union.

    bliss

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 16, 2026 08:53:28
    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:


    On 3/15/26 13:54, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    Pearls Before Swine: I Don't Want A Civil War
    ?? https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2026/03/15

    Nice try.

    Lynn

    That is good but civil wars would be hugs and handshakes
    but instead wars within polities are seldom anything but uncivil with
    few exception usually between individuals who respect their opponents.

    The first American Civil War was the Revolutionary War where
    the revolting colonists and the loyal to the king colonists murdered
    each other. The second Civil War which is called "The Civil War" was
    over slavery and nothing else. The leaders of the Confederacy were
    as short-sighted as Trump is today or they would not have tried to
    escape the Union.

    I wasn't aware that that many Colonists were Hessians.

    Try again, taking the Red Coats and the French into account.

    Your characterization of the Civil War (aka "The War Between the
    States" and, per Rocky and Bullwinkle, "The Recent Unpleasantness"),
    however, is spot-on.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 16, 2026 10:47:21


    On 3/16/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:


    On 3/15/26 13:54, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    Pearls Before Swine: I Don't Want A Civil War
    ÿÿ https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2026/03/15

    Nice try.

    Lynn

    That is good but civil wars would be hugs and handshakes
    but instead wars within polities are seldom anything but uncivil with
    few exception usually between individuals who respect their opponents.

    The first American Civil War was the Revolutionary War where
    the revolting colonists and the loyal to the king colonists murdered
    each other. The second Civil War which is called "The Civil War" was
    over slavery and nothing else. The leaders of the Confederacy were
    as short-sighted as Trump is today or they would not have tried to
    escape the Union.

    I wasn't aware that that many Colonists were Hessians.

    They were not until after the Revolutionary War which introduced them to the possibilities of North America.

    Try again, taking the Red Coats and the French into account.

    The French bankrupted themselves supporting the American Revolution which led to the French Revolution. Which led to Napoleon eventually seizing power as the Radical Revolutionaries like Robespierre made a right mess of things.


    Your characterization of the Civil War (aka "The War Between the
    States" and, per Rocky and Bullwinkle, "The Recent Unpleasantness"),
    however, is spot-on.

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 16, 2026 17:09:27
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    Mostly in Pennsylvania although we had a few in Virginia. Remember the British hired 30,000 contract mercenaries from the Hesses and a few thousand liked it enough here to stay after the war was over.

    Kind of like all the American expats who decided to stay in Thailand after the Vietnam War. But not exactly.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 16, 2026 14:47:09


    On 3/16/26 14:09, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    Mostly in Pennsylvania although we had a few in Virginia. Remember the British hired 30,000 contract mercenaries from the Hesses and a few thousand liked it enough here to stay after the war was over.

    You did not specify that the Hessians were not colonists but immigrants
    after
    the Revolutionary War.


    Kind of like all the American expats who decided to stay in Thailand after the
    Vietnam War. But not exactly.
    --scott

    No not nearly the same. Not that I know much about the expats and there motivations.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 16, 2026 18:11:55
    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    Mostly in Pennsylvania although we had a few in Virginia.


    I suspect she's ribbing him a bit.

    Thousands of (non Hessian) colonists fought on the loyalist side.



    William Hyde



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 16, 2026 18:39:22
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
    On 3/16/26 14:09, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    Mostly in Pennsylvania although we had a few in Virginia. Remember the
    British hired 30,000 contract mercenaries from the Hesses and a few thousand >> liked it enough here to stay after the war was over.

    You did not specify that the Hessians were not colonists but immigrants
    after
    the Revolutionary War.

    I didn't mention them. That was someone else. I don't know what case they were presenting. But there were a lot of them and there are still cities
    in eastern PA named after Hessian cities.

    Kind of like all the American expats who decided to stay in Thailand after the
    Vietnam War. But not exactly.

    No not nearly the same. Not that I know much about the expats and
    there motivations.

    I think the motivations were often the same. You meet a girl, you settle
    down, and when the war is over you look at what you have there and what you would have at home and you decide to stay.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 16, 2026 18:40:58
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    Mostly in Pennsylvania although we had a few in Virginia.

    I suspect she's ribbing him a bit.

    Thousands of (non Hessian) colonists fought on the loyalist side.

    If they hadn't, it wouldn't have been much of a war, would it? Those
    loyalists mostly wound up in Canada when they lost, which wasn't a bad
    deal either.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 07:15:10
    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:54:38 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    Pearls Before Swine: I Don't Want A Civil War
    https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2026/03/15

    Nice try.


    No one wants war. Unfortunately, the trouble is that everyone wants the
    fruits of victory.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 07:19:09
    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

    That is good but civil wars would be hugs and handshakes
    but instead wars within polities are seldom anything but uncivil

    The word "civil" has more than one meaning, and you are using the wrong
    one in this context.
    Instead of "civil" in the sense of polilte, think of "civilian" as opposed
    to military.
    While the War Between the States was fought between organized armies, the Union Army being the United States Army, in general, the army that a
    nation has is used to fight foreign enemies.
    And so an internal war within a divided nation might be fought between
    mobs of ordinary civilians rather than soldiers. That is what would make
    it a "civil war" as opposed to a "military war", the regular kind.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 09:04:44
    On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:39:22 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    I didn't mention them. That was someone else. I don't know what case
    they
    were presenting. But there were a lot of them and there are still
    cities
    in eastern PA named after Hessian cities.

    That was me. I was responding to:

    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers +><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    The first American Civil War was the Revolutionary War where
    the revolting colonists and the loyal to the king colonists
    murdered each other.

    It was Bobbie Sellers who pretended to herself that I was talking
    about Hessian colonists when I responded:

    I wasn't aware that that many Colonists were Hessians.

    Try again, taking the Red Coats and the French into account.

    And she never got the point about the British regulars and the French
    either.

    IOW, she completely blew off the fact that the American Revolution was
    /not/ a Civil War between colonists but was fought against the British
    and their Hessian mercenaries. And a small number of Tory militia.

    Had it been Continentals vs Tories, the war would have been over in a
    month.

    And those loyal to the King and survived -- well, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Loyalists> is relevant
    here. Note, however, that 80%-90% became Americans and stayed where
    they were.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 09:07:45
    On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:40:58 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    Mostly in Pennsylvania although we had a few in Virginia.

    I suspect she's ribbing him a bit.

    Thousands of (non Hessian) colonists fought on the loyalist side.

    If they hadn't, it wouldn't have been much of a war, would it? Those >loyalists mostly wound up in Canada when they lost, which wasn't a bad
    deal either.

    They were /militia/. Without them, the war would have gone on pretty
    much as it did historically, since it was the British Army that had to
    be defeated. And the British Navy that had to be suppressed locally,
    which is where the French came in.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 10:18:09


    On 3/17/26 09:04, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:39:22 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    I didn't mention them. That was someone else. I don't know what case they >> were presenting. But there were a lot of them and there are still cities
    in eastern PA named after Hessian cities.

    And their are cities all over the USA named after classical Greek cities
    but only because the namers were educated and wanted to show it.

    That was me. I was responding to:

    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers +><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    The first American Civil War was the Revolutionary War where
    the revolting colonists and the loyal to the king colonists
    murdered each other.

    It was Bobbie Sellers who pretended to herself that I was talking
    about Hessian colonists when I responded:

    I wasn't aware that that many Colonists were Hessians.

    Try again, taking the Red Coats and the French into account.

    The Red Coats were the British Army and the UK hired the Hessians
    and their officers.

    And she never got the point about the British regulars and the French
    either.

    As far as I know there were few Hessian Colonists before the Revolution.
    The French were vital but in the first attempts they went South for the winter. The real help was with finance and the French Kingdom was
    bankrupted
    by the end of the War. The bankruptcy and other matters led to the French Revolution which had no Washington-like figure and failed eventually as the Terror and the Napoleanic Dictatorship where he tried to conquer a good part
    of the Old World. That led to the affected nations led by hereditary
    monarchs to combine against him.


    IOW, she completely blew off the fact that the American Revolution was
    /not/ a Civil War between colonists but was fought against the British
    and their Hessian mercenaries. And a small number of Tory militia.

    Had it been Continentals vs Tories, the war would have been over in a
    month.

    Yes but it was a civil war between the American Patriots and the Colonial Loyalists.
    And the Tories and the Patriots who had been friends in the same town were
    killing each other.
    Sometime the Tories were organized and fought alongside the Red Coats and
    sometimes they went out and destroyed Patriots farms and homes.


    And those loyal to the King and survived -- well, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Loyalists> is relevant
    here. Note, however, that 80%-90% became Americans and stayed where
    they were.

    Probably became pioneers and moved West to get away from neighbors who remembered their wartime behavior. The Negro slaves were promised freedom
    for fighting on the King's side and were sent originally to Canada with
    the white
    Loyalists but the Whites did not like them and the Negros did not care
    for the
    weather and were mostly relocated to Carribean Islands.

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 10:21:32


    On 3/17/26 09:07, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:40:58 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

    Where did you find the Hessian Colonists?

    Mostly in Pennsylvania although we had a few in Virginia.

    I suspect she's ribbing him a bit.

    Thousands of (non Hessian) colonists fought on the loyalist side.

    If they hadn't, it wouldn't have been much of a war, would it? Those
    loyalists mostly wound up in Canada when they lost, which wasn't a bad
    deal either.

    They were /militia/. Without them, the war would have gone on pretty
    much as it did historically, since it was the British Army that had to
    be defeated. And the British Navy that had to be suppressed locally,
    which is where the French came in.

    The British Army did not have to be defeated but the War had to be endured until the British gave up and they did as Parliament refused to
    fund it further. Then Washington took advantage of the bad position the British Army had chosen and took down what was left of it.

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 10:26:11


    On 3/17/26 00:19, quadi wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

    That is good but civil wars would be hugs and handshakes
    but instead wars within polities are seldom anything but uncivil

    The word "civil" has more than one meaning, and you are using the wrong
    one in this context.
    Instead of "civil" in the sense of polilte, think of "civilian" as opposed
    to military.
    While the War Between the States was fought between organized armies, the Union Army being the United States Army, in general, the army that a
    nation has is used to fight foreign enemies.
    And so an internal war within a divided nation might be fought between
    mobs of ordinary civilians rather than soldiers. That is what would make
    it a "civil war" as opposed to a "military war", the regular kind.

    John Savard

    But in the case of the Revolution we had a civil war inside a Military War.
    In the Civil War the war was within the Union, between mostly military units though some military leaders led raids against the civilians.
    This led
    to Post-war rancor.

    bliss

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 13:48:51
    On 3/17/2026 3:19 AM, quadi wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

    That is good but civil wars would be hugs and handshakes
    but instead wars within polities are seldom anything but uncivil

    The word "civil" has more than one meaning, and you are using the wrong
    one in this context.
    Instead of "civil" in the sense of polilte, think of "civilian" as opposed
    to military.
    While the War Between the States was fought between organized armies, the Union Army being the United States Army, in general, the army that a
    nation has is used to fight foreign enemies.
    And so an internal war within a divided nation might be fought between
    mobs of ordinary civilians rather than soldiers. That is what would make
    it a "civil war" as opposed to a "military war", the regular kind.

    John Savard

    The numbers I'm seeing suggest that there were 15-25k Tory militia,
    50-56k British troops (35-40k present at any given moment), and
    30-37k Hessians.

    Over the course of the whole war, 200-250k fought for independence.

    pt



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 17:43:32
    On 3/17/2026 9:04 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:39:22 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    I didn't mention them. That was someone else. I don't know what case they >> were presenting. But there were a lot of them and there are still cities
    in eastern PA named after Hessian cities.

    That was me. I was responding to:

    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers +><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    The first American Civil War was the Revolutionary War where
    the revolting colonists and the loyal to the king colonists
    murdered each other.

    It was Bobbie Sellers who pretended to herself that I was talking
    about Hessian colonists when I responded:

    I wasn't aware that that many Colonists were Hessians.

    Try again, taking the Red Coats and the French into account.

    And she never got the point about the British regulars and the French
    either.

    IOW, she completely blew off the fact that the American Revolution was
    /not/ a Civil War between colonists but was fought against the British
    and their Hessian mercenaries. And a small number of Tory militia.

    Actually the bloodiest fighting in the American Revolution was in the
    southern Colonies between American and Loyalist militias with some
    Redcoats and a smaller number of Continental troops.

    Had it been Continentals vs Tories, the war would have been over in a
    month.

    And those loyal to the King and survived -- well, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Loyalists> is relevant
    here. Note, however, that 80%-90% became Americans and stayed where
    they were.


    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 17, 2026 20:53:27
    On 3/17/2026 8:43 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 3/17/2026 9:04 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 18:39:22 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    I didn't mention them.ÿ That was someone else.ÿ I don't know what
    case they
    were presenting.ÿ But there were a lot of them and there are still
    cities
    in eastern PA named after Hessian cities.
    That was me. I was responding to:

    On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:16:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    ÿÿÿ The first American Civil War was the Revolutionary War where
    the revolting colonists and the loyal to the king colonists
    murdered each other.

    It was Bobbie Sellers who pretended to herself that I was talking
    about Hessian colonists when I responded:

    I wasn't aware that that many Colonists were Hessians.

    Try again, taking the Red Coats and the French into account.

    And she never got the point about the British regulars and the French
    either.

    IOW, she completely blew off the fact that the American Revolution was
    /not/ a Civil War between colonists but was fought against the British
    and their Hessian mercenaries. And a small number of Tory militia.

    Actually the bloodiest fighting in the American Revolution was in the southern Colonies between American and Loyalist militias with some
    Redcoats and a smaller number of Continental troops.

    I went and looked up the numbers. The number of overseas forces from
    England and Hesse greatly outnumbered the loyalist militias.

    The numbers I'm seeing suggest that there were 15-25k Tory militia,
    50-56k British troops (35-40k present at any given moment), and
    30-37k Hessians.

    Over the course of the whole war, 200-250k fought for independence.


    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)