De : jack-sparrow <jack-sparrow@blues-softwares.net>
Date : 10 juin 2026 … 05:31
To: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>
Sujet : Re: debian & Linux need better browsers.
OK I understand, the way maybe is use w3m to web reader, I imagine is not too complicated to interfacing with an audio reader like :
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/linux-unix/how-to-convert-text-to-speech-on-linux/
I don't know how hybrid that and I'm not coder but it's easy to have the code.
w3m is just my first thinking and imagine haven't image but with metadata if the website respect W3C : https://www.w3.org/ and if it W3C have normes for images metadata like Wikipedia and some useful website no need graphical browser.
If is as for I think, sure without eye the world and more, internet is difficult to access.
This job is big job, and for I try w3m in cli need more time to navigate under a website and an headphones need but w3m have a scrolling short cut
I'm interested to follow your contest, and be patient, some time debian user need time to have help.
Regards,
Jack Sparrow.
PS : an accessibility mailing list for debian don't exist, maybe because the problem never raised.
Le 10 juin 2026 … 04:49, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> a ‚crit :
well..someone volunteered to complete the contest entry for me so. The peace thinking did create a positive solution.
Still, its challenging using Linux with adaptive technology like screen readers.
The more graphical, the less accessible.
Kare
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026, jack-sparrow wrote:
Why you crying?
Is just a free thinking, if the time is used to peace thinking in front of cracking for thieving may be the world is better.
You could say me more about your radio contest?
I have some WiFi router. But not possible to do radio antenna
Maybe you patch the cli browser for Linux and debian. If you're have great cli brother it took.
Some time, I test FreeBSD and the default install have no X
And some time is more efficiently form cli over ssh.
Don't cry is just an contest. The mesh way is most robust and panne revelent.
The hacking is the sorcerer's arena, and some time we fail, but we learn more to own error as own win.
Is a life style...
And when take the virus of hacking, isn't way back.
Jack Sparrow
Le 10 juin 2026 … 00:22, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> a ‚crit :
At least for the command line..plus better pr.
Honestly, Linux is everywhere, under so many things.
Yet, when I am trying to enter a radio contest, even the graphical
browsers cannot get into a text box.
Sorry to rant, but given how much stuff needs a smartphone, it makes me >> cry.
Kare
At least for the command line..plus better pr.
Honestly, Linux is everywhere, under so many things.
Yet, when I am trying to enter a radio contest, even the graphical
browsers cannot get into a text box.
Sorry to rant, but given how much stuff needs a smartphone, it makes me
cry.
Yet, when I am trying to enter a radio contest, even the graphical
browsers cannot get into a text box.
Am 10.06.26 um 00:30 schrieb Karen Lewellen:
At least for the command line..plus better pr.
Honestly, Linux is everywhere, under so many things.
Yet, when I am trying to enter a radio contest, even the graphical
browsers cannot get into a text box.
Sorry to rant, but given how much stuff needs a smartphone, it makes me
cry.
The major graphical browsers are supported on Linux too - even Edge can run there.
The CLI browsers do not support all of the features, so many websites will not work.
Bad, but that is the result of "modern web design".
--
Gruá
Marco
Spam bitte an abfalleimer2001@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
Hi Karen
Yet, when I am trying to enter a radio contest, even the graphical
browsers cannot get into a text box.
Could you please send the URL? I would like to open it on my computer to test.
Sveta
What field do you mean?
With w3m I get a screen with a "search" box. I can't enter any text
there but if I hit ENTER the string "TEXT:" appears at the bottom of the screen. Text I type appears there and then appears in the search box
when I hit ENTER. Moving the cursor to "Search" and hitting ENTER does nothing.
--
John Hasler
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA
No such field to be found with Lynx. The site seems about as broken as
most.
This link might be of interest, though:
https://www.bce.ca/Accessibility_services#maincontent
--
John Hasler
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA
John,
I did not suggest trying with Lynx˙ as in the cat, because˙ I knew
the
site itself does not load in lynx.
e l i n k s˙ however, which˙ can incorporate some JavaScript fairs
better.
may I ask why you tested lynx instead?
As for the bell media policy..not really.
especially given they state they are several w3c guidelines levels
out of
touch.
It would be why are you using Linux? laughs.
Kare
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026, John Hasler wrote:
No such field to be found with Lynx. The site seems about as broken
as
most.
This link might be of interest, though:
https://www.bce.ca/Accessibility_services#maincontent
--
John Hasler
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA
gnome and firefox have a audio reader, but need again pointer to
select. may be need to ask to firefox fondation and gnome project for
adapte to bad viewer for have great audio reader with default install
of debian with gnome
jack sparrow
On mer., 2026-06-10 at 22:16 -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
John,
I did not suggest trying with Lynx˙ as in the cat, because˙ I knew
the
site itself does not load in lynx.
e l i n k s˙ however, which˙ can incorporate some JavaScript fairs
better.
may I ask why you tested lynx instead?
As for the bell media policy..not really.
especially given they state they are several w3c guidelines levels
out of
touch.
It would be why are you using Linux? laughs.
Kare
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026, John Hasler wrote:
No such field to be found with Lynx. The site seems about as broken
as
most.
This link might be of interest, though:
https://www.bce.ca/Accessibility_services#maincontent
--
John Hasler
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA
and again, I am not seeking an audio reader.
the company removed direct access to google search for many lower
graphics and open source browsers. Tools like Links, and elinks, both of which employ some JavaScript.
Speaking very personally, that seems like an innovation problem, not
a browser one. Progressive enhancement web design is the essence of
quality design modern or otherwise. That folks are grabbing the
latest design tool to create items does not dismiss the abilities
of browsers to render content in a simple meaningful way. w3m
presents the content of this radio station site profoundly
well..and even Elinks exists now, with JavaScript support..in DOS. I
stated in another answer that Linux needs quality screen readers
too, graphical interface environment demonstrates that even better
then the cli. Still, many Linux users work in the command line,
without the adaptive technology factor. Saying that cli browsers are
less functional, simply restates my point..does not mean they
cannot do better though.
In general, I believe that most of sites should be usable with text
browsers.
Max Nikulin writes:
In general, I believe that most of sites should be usable with text browsers.
Many are not.
On 11/06/2026 8:48 pm, Karen Lewellen wrote:
and again, I am not seeking an audio reader.
My impression is that those, who write accessibility guides for web developers, are not aware of your trouble.
If this thread is indirectly related to
question about debian software development? Tue, 23 Sep 2025 17:46:12 -0400 (EDT) <https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/Pine.LNX.4.64.2509231736500.4081479@users.shellworld.net>
the company removed direct access to google search for many lower
graphics and open source browsers. Tools like Links, and elinks, both of
which employ some JavaScript.
then you might ask some of your friends to evaluate reputation of <https://chawan.net/> and to provide access to server where this browser is installed.
In general, I believe that most of sites should be usable with text browsers.
However my expectation is that screen readers having access to full DOM tree and a11y attributes should work better than text browsers even if terminal supports escape sequences to mark some objects (e.g. as URLs).
Am 11.06.26 um 00:40 schrieb Karen Lewellen:
Speaking very personally, that seems like an innovation problem, not
a browser one. Progressive enhancement web design is the essence of
quality design modern or otherwise. That folks are grabbing the
latest design tool to create items does not dismiss the abilities
of browsers to render content in a simple meaningful way. w3m
presents the content of this radio station site profoundly
well..and even Elinks exists now, with JavaScript support..in DOS. I
stated in another answer that Linux needs quality screen readers
too, graphical interface environment demonstrates that even better
then the cli. Still, many Linux users work in the command line,
without the adaptive technology factor. Saying that cli browsers are
less functional, simply restates my point..does not mean they
cannot do better though.
All of that needs someone who implements the new features. Google is currently the company who "dictates" new "standards". Chrome is made by them and the derivatives like Opera, MS Edge or others simply follow that and change small parts in the browser.
Mozilla also implements most of the new standards.
The manpower behind other projects is rather small compared to them.
--
Gruá
Marco
Spam bitte an abfalleimer2001@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
Max Nikulin writes:
In general, I believe that most of sites should be usable with text
browsers.
Many are not.
--
John Hasler
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA
Le 13 juin 2026 … 17:17, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> a ‚crit :
May I ask what new standards Google dictates, and under what authority?
Kare
On Sat, 13 Jun 2026, Marco Moock wrote:
Am 11.06.26 um 00:40 schrieb Karen Lewellen:
Speaking very personally, that seems like an innovation problem, not
a browser one. Progressive enhancement web design is the essence of
quality design modern or otherwise. That folks are grabbing the
latest design tool to create items does not dismiss the abilities
of browsers to render content in a simple meaningful way. w3m
presents the content of this radio station site profoundly
well..and even Elinks exists now, with JavaScript support..in DOS. I
stated in another answer that Linux needs quality screen readers
too, graphical interface environment demonstrates that even better
then the cli. Still, many Linux users work in the command line,
without the adaptive technology factor. Saying that cli browsers are
less functional, simply restates my point..does not mean they
cannot do better though.
All of that needs someone who implements the new features. Google is
currently the company who "dictates" new "standards". Chrome is made by them
and the derivatives like Opera, MS Edge or others simply follow that and
change small parts in the browser.
Mozilla also implements most of the new standards.
The manpower behind other projects is rather small compared to them.
--
Gruá
Marco
Spam bitte an abfalleimer2001@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
At Sat, 13 Jun 2026 07:40:05 -0500 john@sugarbit.com (John Hasler) wrote:
Max Nikulin writes:
In general, I believe that most of sites should be usable with text
browsers.
Many are not.
Mostly NOT because they are only images, but because of the non-optional use of JavaScript. I don't know to what extent that the JavaScript being used is tied to a graphical UI.
--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Google want aliment her IA
a =C3=A9crit :
Le 13 juin 2026 =C3=A0 17:17, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>=
y them
May I ask what new standards Google dictates, and under what authority?
Kare
On Sat, 13 Jun 2026, Marco Moock wrote:
Am 11.06.26 um 00:40 schrieb Karen Lewellen:
Speaking very personally, that seems like an innovation problem, not
a browser one. Progressive enhancement web design is the essence of
quality design modern or otherwise. That folks are grabbing the
latest design tool to create items does not dismiss the abilities
of browsers to render content in a simple meaningful way. w3m
presents the content of this radio station site profoundly
well..and even Elinks exists now, with JavaScript support..in DOS. I
stated in another answer that Linux needs quality screen readers
too, graphical interface environment demonstrates that even better
then the cli. Still, many Linux users work in the command line,
without the adaptive technology factor. Saying that cli browsers are
less functional, simply restates my point..does not mean they
cannot do better though.
All of that needs someone who implements the new features. Google is
currently the company who "dictates" new "standards". Chrome is made b=
ndand the derivatives like Opera, MS Edge or others simply follow that a=
change small parts in the browser.
Mozilla also implements most of the new standards.
The manpower behind other projects is rather small compared to them.
--
Gru=C3=9F
Marco
Spam bitte an abfalleimer2001@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
May I ask what new standards Google dictates, and under what authority?
And the authority?
w3c standards are governmental policies world wide.
Well, Karen-and-All, several messages ago, there was a link to a browser called
Chawnan which you run by typing cha but Karen, it is not on Shellworld-and-while I have it installed here in Debian, I really don't remember much about it. I just examined its man-page, unfortunately I cannot find an option of numbering links.
Chime
Am 13.06.26 um 17:40 schrieb Karen Lewellen:
And the authority?
w3c standards are governmental policies world wide.
There is no. There is just a company that develops it and many webmasters (often inside companies) that use the new featuresets.
They don't care about other browsers in most cases.
IE is long dead, Opera gave up its own engine a long time ago, Firefox still exists (but with shrinking marketshare). Most of the world only cares about Chrome and its derivatives.
w3c is just an organisation like IETF or IEEE. They can publish standards and
vendors can use them - or develop their own proprietary.
--
Gruá
Marco
Spam bitte an abfalleimer2001@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
Jerry Mellon
501 Los Caminos St.
St. Augustine, FL 32095
407. 461.9216
jfmellon@netscape.net
Sent from my IPad
On Jun 13, 2026, at 11:27?AM, Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> wrote:
?Well said.
JavaScript is a language, and just like other languages, you can communicate in a way many can understand you..or talk gibberish.
I have visited even in L Y N X , sites that because the JavaScript works well from the keyboard, buttons can be submitted.
That requirement is a part of web access content guidelines.
However, if a developer uses proprietary JavaScript say that provided by google, then problems happen.
Kare
On Sat, 13 Jun 2026, Robert Heller wrote:
At Sat, 13 Jun 2026 07:40:05 -0500 john@sugarbit.com (John Hasler) wrote: >>>
Max Nikulin writes:
In general, I believe that most of sites should be usable with text
browsers.
Many are not.
Mostly NOT because they are only images, but because of the non-optional use
of JavaScript. I don't know to what extent that the JavaScript being used is
tied to a graphical UI.
--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
Lets try to stay on topic everyone..
--
John Doe
And the authority?
Lets try to stay on topic everyone..
The whole thread is a bit silly in that there are only a small number of
descent browsers out there. (Read That as two).
Most commercial websites will only run on MS Edge.
On 6/13/2026 9:19 AM, john doe wrote:
Lets try to stay on topic everyone..
Most commercial websites will only run on MS Edge.
˙May I ask what new standards Google dictates, and under what authority?
You may remember the W3C tried to reset web standards back in 2002 to fix all the issues. Developers and browsers said ?We're not rewriting every webpage on the Internet,? so they developed HTML5 instead and grandfathered in every problem that HTML had that XHTML was supposed to fix.Actually, the current w3c standards are dated from March 2026.
Good morning,
On Mon, 15 Jun 2026, Borden wrote:--
Actually, the current w3c standards are dated from March 2026. www.w3.org/wai.
You may remember the W3C tried to reset web standards back in 2002 to
fix all the issues. Developers and browsers said \u201cWe're not rewriting >> every webpage on the Internet,\u201d so they developed HTML5 instead and
grandfathered in every problem that HTML had that XHTML was supposed
to fix.
Unsure why your understanding is more than 20? years out of date.
Kare
Unsure why your understanding is more than 20 years out of date.
Kare
15 Jun 2026, 11:12 by klewellen@shellworld.net:
Unsure why your understanding is more than 20 years out of date.I'm unsure why you chose to be rude rather than polite, but, lo, that is our imperfect universe. As Mr. Myers correctly inferred, I was giving an example of how XHTML 2 died because of industry adoption. Anyhow, as Alan suggested, let's move on. I'll try to use more timely references in future.
Kare
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