What's the difference between *packaging* and *make*?

With kindest regards, William.
*Larry Wall invented a messy programming language -- and changed the face
of the Web*


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 11:27:17AM -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote:

What's the difference between *packaging* and *make*?

What's the difference between *architecture* and *a cross head
screwdriver*?

Thanks,
Andy

--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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At Mon, 25 May 2026 11:27:17 -0600 William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> wrote:

What's the difference between *packaging* and *make*?

Make is a program the "makes" a program (or something). This is generally done using a makefile (typically named Makefile), that contains rules (or recipies) detailing how to build each part (object file, library, executable, or whatever), listing what that part needs and the steps to build it.

Packaging is creating a "package", which is some sort of file containing a collection of files needed to "install" a program (or some other "thing") for use.

Make can be used to create a package, But that is not the main thing make
does or is used for.

With kindest regards, William.

*Larry Wall invented a messy programming language -- and changed the face
of the Web*

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 11:27:17AM -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote:

What's the difference between *packaging* and *make*?

Make is a system to coordinate a software build (invoking the compilers, linking, building documentation, etc.) Usually, make just coordinates everything, calling out to other programs to do the actual work.
Packaging is a way to collect all the parts of a piece of software to
make it installable in an operating system. You could use "make" to
coordinate the build of a package: actually, many Debian packages use
make (in part) to do this.
Cheers
--
tom s


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 10:34?PM William Torrez Corea
<willitc9888@gmail.com> wrote:

What's the difference between packaging and make?

With kindest regards, William.

Larry Wall invented a messy programming language -- and changed the face

of the Web


https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/258206/what-is-a-help-vampire

https://duck.ai/

I feel that AI is a great tool for unloading help vampires.

You can complain about the resources, but does one question really use
more resources than the collective energy required for every
debian-user reader's computers while reading these?

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 01:04:38AM +0200, Anders Andersson wrote:
[what is a help vampire]
Please, folks. If you don't like some posts, just don't engage with
them. Rage-posting doesn't scale in a big and very diverse mailing
list.
If you don't feel well today: don't just reply right away. Take a
breath first.
This also consumes resources, you know?
Cheers
--
t


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 9:14?PM Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 10:34?PM William Torrez Corea
<willitc9888@gmail.com> wrote:

What's the difference between packaging and make?

With kindest regards, William.

Larry Wall invented a messy programming language -- and changed the face

of the Web

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/258206/what-is-a-help-vampire

https://duck.ai/

I feel that AI is a great tool for unloading help vampires.

You can complain about the resources, but does one question really use
more resources than the collective energy required for every
debian-user reader's computers while reading these?

You are a genius ?
--
With kindest regards, William.
*Larry Wall invented a messy programming language -- and changed the face
of the Web*


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Mon May 25, 2026 at 6:38 PM BST, tomas wrote:

many Debian packages use make (in part) to do this.

IIRC they all do: Policy mandates that debian/rules is a Makefile.
--
???????
??????? Jonathan Dowland
??????? https://jmtd.net
???????


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 09:30:59AM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

On Mon May 25, 2026 at 6:38 PM BST, tomas wrote:

many Debian packages use make (in part) to do this.

IIRC they all do: Policy mandates that debian/rules is a Makefile.

I stand corrected, thanks :-)
Cheers
--
t


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 06:25:28 -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote:

So, in summary packaging is .Deb while make binary file

Packaging is the act or procedure or strategy of creating a package.

A package (in Debian context) is contained in a file ending with .deb.
This is the finished product. It can be installed.

"make" is a tool used in software development. It has a man page: <https://manpages.debian.org/make>

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 06:25:28AM -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote:

With kindest regards, William.

*Larry Wall invented a messy programming language -- and changed the face
of the Web*

So, in summary packaging is .Deb...

only in Debian's (and all its derivative's) context.
For RedHat, SuSE, Mageia and all those others (loosely)
RedHat derivatives, it's rpm. Then there's Arch and their
tribe, which have another packaging system, more source
focussed.

... while make binary file

Make itself doesn't care whether it is producing a binary,
a source (or some intermediate). It just invokes some tools
(compilers, linkers, whatever) in the right order to produce
whatever results (binaries, html documentation, whatever is
needed).
Cheers
--
tom s


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On 2026-05-27, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:

On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 06:25:28 -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote:

So, in summary packaging is .Deb while make binary file

Packaging is the act or procedure or strategy of creating a package.

A package (in Debian context) is contained in a file ending with .deb.
This is the finished product. It can be installed.

"make" is a tool used in software development. It has a man page:
<https://manpages.debian.org/make>

I just realized the OP's question is not as off-the-wall as I first
thought.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Wednesday 27 May 2026 08:29:09 am Greg Wooledge wrote:

"make" is a tool used in software development. ?It has a man page: <https://manpages.debian.org/make>

Looked that over, then tried "info make" which had a bit more in it, but
not as much as I'd like. I have tried to read makefiles and find it diffic
ult to get a handle on just what's going on there. Do you know of any othe
r resources that might help with this?


--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --Jam
es
M Dakin

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 12:40?PM Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellaso
n.com> wrote:

On Wednesday 27 May 2026 08:29:09 am Greg Wooledge wrote:

"make" is a tool used in software development. It has a man page: <https://manpages.debian.org/make>

Looked that over, then tried "info make" which had a bit more in it, bu

t not as much as I'd like. I have tried to read makefiles and find it diff icult to get a handle on just what's going on there. Do you know of any ot
her resources that might help with this?

Make and makefiles are definitely an acquired taste.

POSIX's make is anemic. To get useful things done, you want to use
GNU make (or equivalent).

I prefer handwritten makefiles over those produced by generators like
Automake or Cmake. Or that has been my experience.

The best way to master makefiles is to work with them -- write them by
hand and debug other people's makefiles. Or that has been my
experience.

Jeff

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 12:52:18 -0400, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:

On Wednesday 27 May 2026 08:29:09 am Greg Wooledge wrote:

"make" is a tool used in software development. ?It has a man page: <https://manpages.debian.org/make>

Looked that over, then tried "info make" which had a bit more in it, but not as much as I'd like. I have tried to read makefiles and find it difficult to get a handle on just what's going on there. Do you know of any other resources that might help with this?

I wrote <https://wooledge.org/~greg/make-tutorial.txt> a very long
time ago. It's *really* beginner-level. I'm sure there are better
ones somewhere.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 01:09:25PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
[...]

I wrote <https://wooledge.org/~greg/make-tutorial.txt> a very long
time ago. It's *really* beginner-level. I'm sure there are better
ones somewhere.

I just skimmed it, and while there may be "better ones somewhere",
you are being too humble. A good intro it is, for sure.
Cheers
--
t


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 12:49:39PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 12:40?PM Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

On Wednesday 27 May 2026 08:29:09 am Greg Wooledge wrote:

"make" is a tool used in software development. It has a man page: <https://manpages.debian.org/make>

Looked that over, then tried "info make" which had a bit more in it, but not as much as I'd like. I have tried to read makefiles and find it difficult to get a handle on just what's going on there. Do you know of any other resources that might help with this?

Make and makefiles are definitely an acquired taste.

POSIX's make is anemic. To get useful things done, you want to use
GNU make (or equivalent).

I prefer handwritten makefiles over those produced by generators like Automake or Cmake. Or that has been my experience.

If I can get away with it, then I prefer those, too. Where Autotools
shine is on architecture portability and cross-build.

The best way to master makefiles is to work with them -- write them by
hand and debug other people's makefiles. Or that has been my
experience.

Absolutely. As with any language, actually.
Cheers
--
t


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, 27 May 2026 12:52:18 -0400
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

I have tried to read makefiles and find it difficult to get a handle
on just what's going on there. Do you know of any other resources
that might help with this?

Mike Loukides and Andy Oram, Programming with GNU Software, O'Reilly
(1997).

See if there's a more recent edition.

--
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Thu, 28 May 2026 at 02:40, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

On Wednesday 27 May 2026 08:29:09 am Greg Wooledge wrote:

"make" is a tool used in software development. It has a man page: <https://manpages.debian.org/make>

Looked that over, then tried "info make" which had a bit more in it,
but not as much as I'd like. I have tried to read makefiles and find it difficult to get a handle on just what's going on there. Do you know of
any other resources that might help with this?

Hi, the canonical user reference for Gnu Make is the Gnu Make Manual [1].

The mailing list [2] for Make usage assistance is archived at [3].

Some key steps to understanding makefiles are:
- They are *not* executed from top to bottom.
- They contain two entirely different syntaxes (Make and shell).
- They are parsed in at least two passes, nothing is executed in the first
pass.
- There is *no* workaround for the fact that space character is a token
separator. So Make can *not* operate with file or directory names that
contain whitespace characters.
- Tab and space character are syntactically very different. So it's
essential to use a viewer or editor that displays them differently.
- Like many other complex tools, the best way to begin using Make is to
start using it in the simplest manner possible, and then add complexity
in small manageable steps.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html
[2] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-make
[3] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-make/

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Thursday 28 May 2026 07:02:45 am David wrote:

Hi, the canonical user reference for Gnu Make is the Gnu Make Manual [1].

Trying for that, I get "too many requests"...

I'll leave that tab open and try again after a while.


--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ÿa critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ÿ--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Maste
rs"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --Jam
es
M Dakin

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 29 May 2026 at 01:20, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

On Thursday 28 May 2026 07:02:45 am David wrote:

Hi, the canonical user reference for Gnu Make is the Gnu Make Manual [1].

Trying for that, I get "too many requests"...

I'll leave that tab open and try again after a while.

The URL [1] I gave displays without any problem here, using the
combination of:
Debian 12
Firefox 140.11.0esr (64-bit)
uBlock Origin 1.70.0

Or the same document is available at [4] in other formats, such as
downloadable PDF.

In case you are not aware, it is possible to search the web and
discover this kind of thing for yourself. It's a useful skill. You can
put a few relevant key words into a search engine and have a
look through the results.

The URL [4] is the first result for a google search for
"gnu make manual".

I mostly use
https://www.startpage.com
https://duckduckgo.com
but there are many others, with different tradeoffs [5].

[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html
[2] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-make
[3] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-make/
[4] https://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Thursday 28 May 2026 11:36:51 am Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:

On Thursday 28 May 2026 07:02:45 am David wrote:

Hi, the canonical user reference for Gnu Make is the Gnu Make Manual [1

].

Trying for that, I get "too many requests"...

I'll leave that tab open and try again after a while.

Got it. Looks like that one has all the gory details...


--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ÿa critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ÿ--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Maste
rs"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --Jam
es
M Dakin

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 28/05/2026 6:02 pm, David wrote:

On Thu, 28 May 2026 at 02:40, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:

Looked that over, then tried "info make" which had a bit more in it,
but not as much as I'd like.

Do you have the make-doc package installed? If so you should get the
long and detailed document otherwise perhaps you get make(1) man page.

Hi, the canonical user reference for Gnu Make is the Gnu Make Manual [1].

[...]

[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html

It should be the same document as "info make" modulo latest make release
and the version packaged in Debian. You may have it locally as <file:///usr/share/doc/make-doc/make.html/index.html>
or in PDF format as /usr/share/doc/make-doc/make.pdf.gz

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Thursday 28 May 2026 11:47:13 am David wrote:

In case you are not aware, it is possible to search the web and
discover this kind of thing for yourself. It's a useful skill. You can
put a few relevant key words into a search engine and have a
look through the results.

In case you are not aware, there is a significant difference between searc
h engine results and interacting with actual human beings on a mailing list
. I make my choice, each time, depending...

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ÿa critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ÿ--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Maste
rs"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --Jam
es
M Dakin

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 30 May 2026 at 01:36, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

On Thursday 28 May 2026 11:47:13 am David wrote:

In case you are not aware, it is possible to search the web and
discover this kind of thing for yourself. It's a useful skill. You can
put a few relevant key words into a search engine and have a
look through the results.

In case you are not aware, there is a significant difference between
search engine results and interacting with actual human beings on
a mailing list. I make my choice, each time, depending...

Hi, yes I am aware. That is why my first message [6] ended by giving a few
"key steps to understanding makefiles".

Based on my experience of using Make, I felt that it would be useful to
offer those particular insights, because although they are documented, they
are important points that are not easy to discover by an initial read or
search of documentation, due to the overwhelming wealth of detail.

My attempt was to provide specifically the kind of insight that one actual human being would offer to another on a helpful mailing list.

[6] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2026/05/msg00521.html
[6] CAMPXz=o7BWvLfOStogEPp_4bKwcwH8j1w+TYAaOgSi_-kFfZQw@mail.gmail.com

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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On Thu May 28, 2026 at 12:02 PM BST, David wrote:

On Thu, 28 May 2026 at 02:40, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

On Wednesday 27 May 2026 08:29:09 am Greg Wooledge wrote:

"make" is a tool used in software development. It has a man page:
<https://manpages.debian.org/make>

Looked that over, then tried "info make" which had a bit more in it,
but not as much as I'd like. I have tried to read makefiles and find it
difficult to get a handle on just what's going on there. Do you know of
any other resources that might help with this?

Hi, the canonical user reference for Gnu Make is the Gnu Make Manual [1].

It's most likely that OP got exactly that when they read "info make".
--
???????
??????? Jonathan Dowland
??????? https://jmtd.net
???????


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
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