Subject: Emacs questions (was: Re: OT: Word processor like editor for things like html, TWiki markup, or customized markup)

On Friday, February 06, 2026 06:21:15 AM Eric S Fraga wrote:

org mode in Emacs would probably (definitely?) allow you to do
everything you have indicated. Emacs is available as a Debian package
out of the box.

Aside: I tried Emacs quite some time ago (ca. 2000 - 2002) and found it very difficult to get into and eventually abandoned it. I had come from the Windows
world and was used to WYSIWG editors and word processors (e.g., Word).
I'm willing to put at least a little time into reconsidering Emacs (should it be EMACS?) but would like to find a list where beginner's level questions might
be asked (or, I guess I can search with DDG or ask an AI (I currently sometimes use chatgpt (cautiously))).
Is there such a mail list?
A quick sample of some of the questions I'd ask:
* does (or can) EMACS use UTf-8 as its (or a) native <darn -- can't think of the right word>
* can EMACS do what I think is known as soft or dynamic word wrap -- I mean word wrap without inserting line end characters to wrap the lines of a paragraph
* is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to things like Algol or C (or Python, Pascal, or such). (Background: I originally learned Algol, then was forced to learn Fortran :-(, and then was exposed to and supposed to learn Lisp, but I never became comfortable with that. Something that would take (or display) some Lisp code snippets tanslated into something more like Pascal syntax would help me a lot, I think)
* I currently edit files (in Kate) approaching 50 MB, I'd expect to do similar size (or more) files in Emacs, with lots of features enabled (e.g., TWiki or HTML (or other) syntax highlighting, folding (I guess that is org mode), etc. Should I be worried?
* Oh, I also know that at one time Xemacs was created to be a gui for Emacs, my recollection is that, since then, Emacs has developed a gui interface -- ahh, yes, I'm 99% sure of that (so I shouldn't have listed / asked this here).
Thanks!


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: Emacs questions (was: Re: OT: Word processor like editor for things like html, TWiki markup, or customized markup)

On Friday, February 06, 2026 11:00:59 AM rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

* is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to
things like Algol or C (or Python, Pascal, or such). (Background: I originally learned Algol, then was forced to learn Fortran :-(, and then
was exposed to and supposed to learn Lisp, but I never became comfortable with that. Something that would take (or display) some Lisp code snippets tanslated into something more like Pascal syntax would help me a lot, I think)

Update: after writing the above, I found [[https://www.fluentpython.com/extra/beautiful-code/][A Beautiful Piece of Code: lis.py]] which helped a lot, example:
<quote>
(define (max a b)
(if (>= a b)
a
b))
</quote>
With some notes that I've not copied here, now I get it, that is quite clear, e.g., I see the if and >=
In my first exposure to Lisp, the instructor spent quite some time (weeks, iirc) dealing with car and cdr, and by that time I had lost interest and pretty much stopped paying attention (even though I did pass the course, maybe even with an A :-)


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: Emacs questions (was: Re: OT: Word processor like editor for things like html, TWiki markup, or customized markup)

At Fri, 6 Feb 2026 11:00:59 -0500 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, February 06, 2026 06:21:15 AM Eric S Fraga wrote:

org mode in Emacs would probably (definitely?) allow you to do
everything you have indicated. Emacs is available as a Debian package
out of the box.

Aside: I tried Emacs quite some time ago (ca. 2000 - 2002) and found it very difficult to get into and eventually abandoned it. I had come from the Windows
world and was used to WYSIWG editors and word processors (e.g., Word).

I'm willing to put at least a little time into reconsidering Emacs (should it
be EMACS?) but would like to find a list where beginner's level questions might
be asked (or, I guess I can search with DDG or ask an AI (I currently sometimes use chatgpt (cautiously))).

Is there such a mail list?

Probably...

A quick sample of some of the questions I'd ask:

* does (or can) EMACS use UTf-8 as its (or a) native <darn -- can't think of the right word>

I believe GNU EMACS supports UTf-8. (Jasspa MicroEmacs, which is what *I* use does not -- I personally have little use for UTf-8).

* can EMACS do what I think is known as soft or dynamic word wrap -- I mean
word wrap without inserting line end characters to wrap the lines of a paragraph

Yes, GNU EMACS can do that.

* is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to things
like Algol or C (or Python, Pascal, or such). (Background: I originally learned Algol, then was forced to learn Fortran :-(, and then was exposed to and supposed to learn Lisp, but I never became comfortable with that. Something that would take (or display) some Lisp code snippets tanslated into
something more like Pascal syntax would help me a lot, I think)

Yes.

* I currently edit files (in Kate) approaching 50 MB, I'd expect to do similar size (or more) files in Emacs, with lots of features enabled (e.g., TWiki or HTML (or other) syntax highlighting, folding (I guess that is org mode), etc. Should I be worried?

So long as you have enough RAM (real or virtual), there shoud not be a problem. Given current levels of computer memory sizes 50 MB is tiny.

* Oh, I also know that at one time Xemacs was created to be a gui for Emacs, my recollection is that, since then, Emacs has developed a gui interface -- ahh, yes, I'm 99% sure of that (so I shouldn't have listed / asked this here).

Yes, I believe so. Even Jasspa MicroEmacs has a GUI (but I don't use it).

Thanks!

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

rhkramer writes:

Is there such a mail list?

Try https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs .
(I have no experience with it.)

There is also extensive built-in documentation.

does (or can) EMACS use UTf-8

Yes.

can EMACS do what I think is known as soft or dynamic word wrap -- I
mean word wrap without inserting line end characters to wrap the
lines of a paragraph

You probably want visual line mode.

is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to
things like Algol or C

Lisp is too different for that to make sense. But you don't need to
know lisp to use Emacs. Customization can be done via a menu system.

Large files are not a problem.
--
John Hasler
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

At Fri, 06 Feb 2026 10:21:48 -0600 john@sugarbit.com (John Hasler) wrote:

rhkramer writes:

Is there such a mail list?

Try https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs .
(I have no experience with it.)

There is also extensive built-in documentation.

does (or can) EMACS use UTf-8

Yes.

can EMACS do what I think is known as soft or dynamic word wrap -- I
mean word wrap without inserting line end characters to wrap the
lines of a paragraph

You probably want visual line mode.

is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to
things like Algol or C

Lisp is too different for that to make sense. But you don't need to
know lisp to use Emacs. Customization can be done via a menu system.

*Syntacally* LISP has almost no syntax at all. Unlike Algol or C, which have lots of sometime complex syntax rules, LISP has almost no syntax rules at all. Only a handfull of special characters. There are only two syntacic terms: lists and atoms. Atoms are symbols (eg alphanumerics), numbers (integers, rational numbers, floating point numbers, and bignums), characters, strings.

But yes, LISP is a very different animal from Algol or C, or really most other languages.

Large files are not a problem.

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: Emacs questions (was: Re: OT: Word processor like editor for things like html, TWiki markup, or customized markup)

On Fri 06 Feb 2026 at 11:00:59 (-0500), rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, February 06, 2026 06:21:15 AM Eric S Fraga wrote:

org mode in Emacs would probably (definitely?) allow you to do
everything you have indicated. Emacs is available as a Debian package
out of the box.

Aside: I tried Emacs quite some time ago (ca. 2000 - 2002) and found it very difficult to get into and eventually abandoned it. I had come from the Windows
world and was used to WYSIWG editors and word processors (e.g., Word).

I'm willing to put at least a little time into reconsidering Emacs (should it
be EMACS?) but would like to find a list where beginner's level questions might
be asked (or, I guess I can search with DDG or ask an AI (I currently sometimes use chatgpt (cautiously))).

There's an O'Reilly book available. For free, there's:

www2.lib.uchicago.edu/keith/emacs/emacs-tutorial.pdf

which looks more like a systematic approach to emacs, rather than dive-into-emacs style. But it's easy enough to edit some-old-junk
and play with it, because it has so much self-documentation within.

The PDF has a brief chapter on lisp, for using it in emacs,
not for learning lisp. (My own use of emacs lisp is strictly programming-by-imitation.)

Cheers,
David.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026-02-06 11:00, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

Aside: I tried Emacs quite some time ago (ca. 2000 - 2002) and found it
very difficult to get into and eventually abandoned it. I had come from
the Windows world and was used to WYSIWG editors and word processors
(e.g., Word).

My Emacs config has outgrown some software projects I'm on. org mode and
org roam are the main reasons I use it, as I still code mostly in
Vim/NeoVim. I find Emacs configuration fragile, so it's always in
version control in case I need to roll it back. I also find that I
prefer to build my own Emacs on Debian, to stay more up-to-date.

I'm willing to put at least a little time into reconsidering Emacs
(should it be EMACS?) but would like to find a list where beginner's
level questions might be asked (or, I guess I can search with DDG or ask
an AI (I currently sometimes use chatgpt (cautiously))).

Any modern editor will likely do what you want.

Is there such a mail list?

Yes, and a sub-reddit, and...

* does (or can) EMACS use UTf-8 as its (or a) native <darn -- can't
think of the right word>

It can, yes.

* can EMACS do what I think is known as soft or dynamic word wrap -- I
mean word wrap without inserting line end characters to wrap the lines
of a paragraph

Yes

* is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to
things like Algol or C (or Python, Pascal, or such). (Background: I originally learned Algol, then was forced to learn Fortran :-(, and then
was exposed to and supposed to learn Lisp, but I never became
comfortable with that. Something that would take (or display) some Lisp
code snippets tanslated into something more like Pascal syntax would
help me a lot, I think)

Lots of online material and some built-into emacs.

https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/emacs-builtin-elisp-cheat-sheet

* I currently edit files (in Kate) approaching 50 MB, I'd expect to do similar size (or more) files in Emacs, with lots of features enabled
(e.g., TWiki or HTML (or other) syntax highlighting, folding (I guess
that is org mode), etc. Should I be worried?

Nope.

* Oh, I also know that at one time Xemacs was created to be a gui for
Emacs, my recollection is that, since then, Emacs has developed a gui interface -- ahh, yes, I'm 99% sure of that (so I shouldn't have
listed / asked this here).

AFAIK they merged some time ago.

Vim/NeoVim/Emacs are all pretty solid. Also, don't ignore the pre-built distributions like Doom Emacs, and NVChad. They make great demos, and
even full-time use distros.

Mike

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2/6/26 8:42 AM, Robert Heller wrote:

There are only two syntacic terms: lists and atoms. Atoms are
symbols (eg alphanumerics), numbers (integers, rational numbers,
floating point numbers, and bignums), characters, strings.

But yes, LISP is a very different animal from Algol or C, or really
most other languages.

Actually, there is but a single root syntactic element: the S-Expression (short for Symbolic Expression). This subdivides into Atoms and
Non-Atomic S-Expressions.

An Atom is a single entity that cannot be subdivided, while a Non-Atomic S-Expression is a collection of two or more simpler S-Expressions.

A List is either of two things: either a special reserved Atom called
"nil," which represents an empty list, or a Non-Atomic S-Expression that
ends in nil. A simple example of a list would be (foo bar baz). If you
peel off elements from this, you will eventually get down to nil.

But there are other, less common, NATSs: dotted pairs, e.g., (foo .
bar), and dotted lists (foo bar . baz) are S-expressions that do *not* implicitly end in nil (i.e., they end in an Atom other than nil). There
are also circular lists, that eventually just turn back upon themselves.
In fact, a proper List can be represented as a dotted pair or dotted
list ending in nil, i.e., (foo bar baz . nil) is equivalent to (foo bar
baz). Most of the time, these (especially circular lists) are malformed
lists, but there are rare cases in which they are created intentionally.

I took a full year of LISP at CSU Long Beach, where we used a LISP
dialect that we got from the University of Texas, and I thank you for
the trip down memory lane.

As to Emacs, I have a vague recollection of using one or two heavily customized Commodore Amiga ports of Emacs (one of them part of a
Modula-2 development system), but about all I can recall is that it's
easier to become proficient in then vi is (but what isn't?)

--
JHHL

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to
things like Algol or C

Lisp is too different for that to make sense.

Not necessarily. It can be a very useful starting point.

{ ... }
=> (progn ...)

if (FOO) BAR else BAZ
=> (if FOO BAR BAZ )

int FOO (float BAR, void* BAZ)
{ ... }
=> (defun FOO (BAR BAZ) ...)

int x = FOO; float y = BAR; ...
=> (let* ((x FOO) (y BAR)) ...)


=== Stefan

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026-02-06, James H. H. Lampert <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> wrote:

I took a full year of LISP at CSU Long Beach, where we used a LISP
dialect that we got from the University of Texas, and I thank you for
the trip down memory lane.

Doesn't Emacs use a special subset or variation of Lisp?

As to Emacs, I have a vague recollection of using one or two heavily customized Commodore Amiga ports of Emacs (one of them part of a
Modula-2 development system), but about all I can recall is that it's
easier to become proficient in then vi is (but what isn't?)

--
JHHL

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Friday, February 06, 2026 11:21:48 AM John Hasler wrote:

rhkramer writes:

...

is there somewhere a guide to LISP syntax that makes analogies to
things like Algol or C

Lisp is too different for that to make sense.

Ahh, but I did find one thing that helped me make sense / make an analogy -- at
least for some things (I posted a source in another post), Lisp seems to use a prefix syntax (e.g., (+ x y) as opposed to most other languages which use infix
syntax (x + y). (And, there are other languages (or calculators) that use a postfix syntax (x y +).
That little bit makes me feel a lot more comfortable with Lisp (and presumably Emacs).
And, yes, I'm sure it is true that you don't have to know Lisp to use Emacs, but I expect I'll have to do a fair amount of customization, which probably means Lisp.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)