Hi,

Debian is applying as a mentoring organization for the Google Summer
of Code 2026[1].

I object to the participation.

As much as it might help Debian, we urgently need to stop helping Google t
o play a part in everything.

-nik

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

there may be a misunderstanding here. Google is simply funding open
source development.

Yep, there seems to be a misunderstanding at your end.

Google DOES NOT "simply fund open source development".

They fund open source development because that makes them look like the go
od guys to FOSS projects and contributors. It forces them to register for
a Google account, and it further normalises the use and presence of Google
products in society.

Companies like Google do not do anything as a selfless act of benevolence
. That's a myth, and in 2025, it would really be the time to stop fosteri
ng that myth.

-nik

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Le Sat, Dec 06, 2025 at 11:50:21AM +0100, Dominik George a ‚crit :

Debian is applying as a mentoring organization for the Google Summer
of Code 2026[1].

I object to the participation.

As much as it might help Debian, we urgently need to stop helping Google to play a part in everything.

Seconded. We need to lessen our dependency on Google, not increase it.
Google is an advertisement company based on treating everyone as sellable data points, and the GSoC is one of their marketing stunts.
I feel very uneasy each time I see Debian taking part in this advertisement campaign.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

* Christian Kastner: " Re: Call for Debian projects and mentors in Google
Summer of Code 2026" (Sat, 6 Dec 2025 16:05:52 +0100):

I can criticize Google for a lot of things, but GSoC gets only praise
from me.

JFTR:

I can see the benefit but it's not that simple for me. In the past, I refused to
mentor GSoC applicants because I didn't accept that residents of US embargoed countries such as Myanmar (or make your choice [2]) were excluded from participation [1].

[1] https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/rules
[2]
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/embargoed-countries



--

Mathias Behrle
PGP/GnuPG key availabable from any keyserver, ID: 0xD6D09BE48405BBF6
AC29 7E5C 46B9 D0B6 1C71 7681 D6D0 9BE4 8405 BBF6

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Hi,

On Sat, 2025-12-06 at 11:50 +0100, Dominik George wrote:

Debian is applying as a mentoring organization for the Google Summer
of Code 2026[1].

I object to the participation.

As much as it might help Debian, we urgently need to stop helping Google

to play a part in everything.

Why do we need to do that?

Do we need to also reject other contributions besides monetary
donations? For example code contributions by Google as a company or
individual employees, both in Debian and upstream projects?

Do we need to stop accepting donations only from Google or also from
other companies?

Ansgar

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Companies like Google do not do anything as a selfless act of benevolence. That's a myth, and in 2025, it would really be the time to stop fostering that myth.

So instead of only students and the projects the contribute to, Google
also gets something in return? Meaning everybody wins? What's wrong with that, isn't that the perfect outcome?

Please take a look around what a "win" for Google means for others.

It forces them to register for a Google account

Authentication and authorization are things, especially when you're financially compensating people. Most projects or teams will require you
to create something to do or receive something, be it an account on
Salsa, or a GPG key, or whatever. And you can delete your account after.

If you actually believe that giving your data to Google is jsut like
giving your data to Debian or generating a GPG key, then you're a lost
cause, sorry.

I can live with people considering the benefits of GSoC more important
than protection and emancipation from Google, but your comparison is
just plain ignorant.

-nik

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Why do we need to do that?

Do we need to also reject other contributions besides monetary
donations? For example code contributions by Google as a company or individual employees, both in Debian and upstream projects?

Do we need to stop accepting donations only from Google or also from
other companies?

I'm not going to reply to that in detail, but comparing a Big Tech
company like Google with just any other company is a bit off.

Also, Google can donate as much money as they like to Debian. A pure
financial donation does not involve any promotion or endorsement. GSoC,
in contrast, promotes Google to all participants, and endorses the use
of their platforms openly, on top of the whitewashing marketing act the
whole thing is.

-nik

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Hi,

On Sat, 2025-12-06 at 17:47 +0100, Dominik George wrote:

Why do we need to do that?

Do we need to also reject other contributions besides monetary
donations? For example code contributions by Google as a company or individual employees, both in Debian and upstream projects?

Do we need to stop accepting donations only from Google or also from
other companies?

I'm not going to reply to that in detail, but comparing a Big Tech
company like Google with just any other company is a bit off.

There are other Big Tech companies that donate to Debian if you want to
limit it to those.

Also, Google can donate as much money as they like to Debian. A pure financial donation does not involve any promotion or endorsement. GSoC,

in contrast, promotes Google to all participants, and endorses the use

of their platforms openly, on top of the whitewashing marketing act the

whole thing is.

This is not true: monetary or swag donations to DebConf promote the
donor to all participants. This doesn't seem much different from GSoC.

Debian also gets non-monetary donations from various Big Tech
companies, including:

- cloud computes resources (requires using a specific cloud provider),
- CDN traffic (requires using a specific CDN),
- hardware for buildds by CPU manufacturers (which obviously have
specific interests),
- other hardware such as GPUs by their respective vendors (limited to
people wanting to improve hardware support for said vendor)

Some service that Debian operates would not be possible to provide
without these resources. As far as I understand this is the case for
services such as deb.debian.org or CI runners for salsa.debian.org.

I'm not sure the companies would donate the equal amount if Debian
required monetary donations. (For example I wouldn't be surprised if
there are tax/bookkeeping advantages for the non-monetary donations.)

Should Debian still reject such non-monetary donations even though they obviously help Debian? I do not see a reason for this, neither for
Google nor other companies.

Ansgar

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Thank you for organizing this, Abhijith and the rest of the Outreach team!

I'm also thankful for the folks inside Google who push for GSoC to happen year after year, especially knowing how hard it is to get the buy-in for something like this in a company.

It's impossible to understate the impact of being paid to contribute to Debian when you are new to Free Software, this changes lives and I've had great experiences both as a student and as a mentor.

Keep up the good work!

Regards,


--
Samuel Henrique <samueloph>

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Saturday, December 6, 2025 8:05:52?AM Mountain Standard Time Christian Kastner wrote:

I can criticize Google for a lot of things, but GSoC gets only praise
from me.

That is my feeling as well. I hope Google continues to sponsor it and I hope Debian continues to participate.
--
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Saturday, December 6, 2025 8:05:52?AM Mountain Standard Time Christian Kastner wrote:

I can criticize Google for a lot of things, but GSoC gets only praise
from me.

That is my feeling as well. I hope Google continues to sponsor it and I hope Debian continues to participate.
--
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, Dec 08, 2025 at 01:49:40PM -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote:

On Saturday, December 6, 2025 8:05:52?AM Mountain Standard Time Christian Kastner wrote:

I can criticize Google for a lot of things, but GSoC gets only praise
from me.

For me, that goes too far: it is their way to extend their "soft power",
and thus deserves to be seen critically. That said...

That is my feeling as well. I hope Google continues to sponsor it and I hope
Debian continues to participate.

... this pragmatic view is worth considering. But one shouldn't lose
the critical view, since soft power tends, at some point, to evolve
into controlling power.
See the place Google has put mozilla into, out of the fondness of their
hearts.
Cheers
--
t


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Tue, Dec 09, 2025 at 09:57:28PM +0100, Christian Kastner wrote:

On 2025-12-09 08:15, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Saturday, December 6, 2025 8:05:52?AM Mountain Standard Time Christian >> Kastner wrote:

I can criticize Google for a lot of things, but GSoC gets only praise
from me.

For me, that goes too far: it is their way to extend their "soft power", and thus deserves to be seen critically.

FWIW, with my remark about GSoC I meant "I didn't find things to be
critical of, but many things to speak positively about", and not "it
should not be criticized". They absolutely should.

Then we are roughly on the same page, yes :)
For GSOC, as for all such donations, my worry is always the creation
of dependencies.
Cheers
--
tom s


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)