here is my opinion /as a random cat living in the wires of the internet/: xlibre has a long history of toxicity, harassment by the fan base, and project manager and other right wing pundits using it as a proxy in culture war and/or scoring political points
it is not a software project, it is a pr campaign
campaign in which debian should not participate in, and ideology of which goes against everything debian stands for, and endangers wellbeing of debian developers and users, especially marginalised one and their allies
xlibre has deb repository /it is extremely easy to look it up/ - and that should be the end of story - debian did not ban or exclude xlibre from operating system - anyone can use it, if they wish to
the technical side of things does not matter here - good software is not just good code - it is also an ecosystem(?) of diverse community and non toxic environment - soft skills if you wish - and however good code is - it is worth nothing if it is fueled by hatred campaign - making maintenance detrimental to wellbeing of other people, where toxic fan base and right wing pundits monitoring any wrong word that is said about project
and as someone who wants to still use xserver on my machine - this isn't it, chief - this is how all chances on getting x to life another day are going to die: 'cause desires and efforts of trying to improve x somewhat will be met with association with extreme bigotry and hate campaigns /and incompetence/
___
begrudgingly, #random #left #nb
using debian and/or derivatives since i was teenager in 2010


--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Dear Debian Project Team

Thank you for your responses, especially to those who have provided
information about the proper channels to request specific packages
or hinted to the development situation with display protocols under GNU/Linux.

My question about XLibre resulted from the current, not quite satisfactory situation, with display protocols for GNU/Linux. As a non-IT person
who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
(solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland. While X11 is loosing
its support base, the slow progress with Wayland implementation makes
me think to explicitly separate any graphical interface from the
computing cores by depending on third-party free/libre software
for visualization.

Debian GNU/Linux is a fantastic distro, which has been my main workhorse
for years. Please never allow to divide the community. Extreme language
on any side of the spectrum is not helpful to work harmoniously.
Some political aspects raised in response to my post are personally
not neutral to me, a Pole, either. I believe that the past of some big tech companies, now involved in FOSS through their subsidiaries, or strong personal opinions of free software developers on any side of the political spectrum,
are best dealt with by focusing on the philosophy behind the free/libre software movement.

Thank you for your excellent and very meaningful work.

Best wishes
Wojciech

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Wojciech Lipinski wrote:

As a non-IT person
who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
(solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland.

Hello Wojciech,
I don't see why you should worry about that at all.
You need not develop an application that talks the X11 or Wayland
protocol directly. Nobody does that, it would be like reinventing the
wheel. If you use one of the most common graphical toolkits (e.g.,
Gtk+ or Qt), it is my understanding that they support both protocols transparently.
I have been developing a few programs with Gtk+ and when I switched my
Debian system from X11 to Wayland (if I'm not mistaken that was with
the Bookworm release) they simply kept working, I didn't need to do
anything.
Do you actually have any specific requirements that either X11 or
Wayland would not support (and would XLibre change anything to that
respect)?

Gerardo

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 10:19:48AM +0200, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:

Wojciech Lipinski wrote:

As a non-IT person
who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
(solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland.

Hello Wojciech,
I don't see why you should worry about that at all.
You need not develop an application that talks the X11 or Wayland
protocol directly. Nobody does that, it would be like reinventing the
wheel. If you use one of the most common graphical toolkits (e.g.,
Gtk+ or Qt), it is my understanding that they support both protocols transparently.

Not Wojcieh here, but... if you could propose something which is less
of a monster than Gtk of Qt, I'd be all ears!
Nearly 20 years ago I made a couple of Gtk applications (Gtk2 back
then), one of which is still in use. Having followed Gtk's development, nowadays I'd pass, thankyouverymuch.
Today, I think I'd go with Tk or something.
Cheers
--
t


--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Thank you Gerardo for the hints. Indeed, I hope to not have to go
to the level of XLib or wlroots. I tend to converge towards a simpler solution than writing any graphical interface, even if GTK (and Cairo) are some
viable options. I will most likely keep my work entirely separate from any display protocol/graphical environment developments in the GNU/Linux
world by using well-proven third-party tools like Gnuplot as long as the Gnuplot
functionality under Wayland improves (I do not want to use XWayland or similar, nested layers). A similar philosophy for visualization is applied in
GNU Octave (it uses QT to display Gnuplot plots). On my system
(Trixie with hyprland from Sid), I cannot get on-screen, real-time
or interactive plots yet, as there seem to be no suitable Wayland-compatible Gnuplot terminal in my Gnuplot installation (v6.0, from Trixie) yet
unless I have overlooked something essential here.

I hope the situation with GNU/Linux graphics improves in the near future
and either the Wayland ecosystem matures faster or the X11-based
ecosystem is modernized and continued if the transition to Wayland will
require users like me to wait for a few more years. Wayland already works
very well on my mobile devices with Ubuntu Touch (I hope to run Mobian in
the near future!) though.

Thanks to all for this constructive discussion.

Wojciech

On 2025 Oct 10 10:19, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:

Wojciech Lipinski wrote:

As a non-IT person
who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
(solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland.

Hello Wojciech,
I don't see why you should worry about that at all.
You need not develop an application that talks the X11 or Wayland
protocol directly. Nobody does that, it would be like reinventing the
wheel. If you use one of the most common graphical toolkits (e.g.,
Gtk+ or Qt), it is my understanding that they support both protocols >transparently.
I have been developing a few programs with Gtk+ and when I switched my
Debian system from X11 to Wayland (if I'm not mistaken that was with
the Bookworm release) they simply kept working, I didn't need to do
anything.
Do you actually have any specific requirements that either X11 or
Wayland would not support (and would XLibre change anything to that
respect)?

Gerardo

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)