rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

But Rome exported Christianity and so did Constantinople and
shoved it down the throat of the rest of their Empire.

The question is why Rome adopted Christianity. The usual story is
Helena convincing her kid and the whole in hoc signe thing. Julian
(the Apostate) tried to reverse the trend. It might be a different
world if he hadn't insisted on going to Persia and dying there.

Mithraism was popular before the spread of Christianity, with mithraea
all over Europe. I think it failed because it was a boys' club while
women and slaves spread the gospel.

Have a read of https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/Domination/Alice-Roberts/9781398510111.
Constantine?s commitment to Christianity in particular is really rather dubious.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
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On 3/14/26 10:36, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 13 Mar 2026 21:32:55 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

But Rome exported Christianity and so did Constantinople and
shoved it down the throat of the rest of their Empire.

The question is why Rome adopted Christianity. The usual story is Helena convincing her kid and the whole in hoc signe thing. Julian (the Apostate) tried to reverse the trend. It might be a different world if he hadn't insisted on going to Persia and dying there.

Maybe it amounted to dealing with one deity was simpler than dealing
with many some requiring expensive sacrifices before the deity or their
priests
would act favorably. Christianity settled on 10& of income to stay in
good
odor with the priesthood. No oxes, goats, pigeons or doves to be slain nor
chickens to be sacrificed to read the future from their guts.

Mithraism was popular before the spread of Christianity, with mithraea all over Europe. I think it failed because it was a boys' club while women and slaves spread the gospel.

That is possible.

bliss


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On 14/03/2026 17:36, rbowman wrote:

The question is why Rome adopted Christianity.

Seriously? A religion that says that being a slave is cool, its part of
God's plan and you get your reward in Heaven?

What's not to like?


--
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have
forgotten your aim."

George Santayana


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On 15/03/2026 02:39, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 14 Mar 2026 11:35:51 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

Maybe it amounted to dealing with one deity was simpler than dealing
with many some requiring expensive sacrifices before the deity or their
priests

Well, that was Mohamed's selling point. Arabs wrapping their minds around
the concept of a trinity wasn't going to happen. For that matter many Christians couldn't describe the doctrine in their own words without
falling into one of the classic heresies or the other.

Religious mysticism is a crude attempt at a theory of life the universe
and everything
What was sold to the profane was a stripped down code of behaviour, a
fairy tale and a promise that was uncontestable.

India seems to have done well with polytheism although in some cases it's more serial monotheism. I assume Greece and pre-Christian Rome was
similar; pick your favorite God or Goddess.

The bronze age mind did not have to deal with a humanity that had much
power over anything, so science per se was not much use. Natural forces
were overwhelming in their force and a simple way to pass down hints
and clues in how to deal with them in an oral tradition was to anthropomorphise them into gods and other supernatural intelligences.

When you don't have either antibiotics or a microscope, a demon that
gives you diarrhoea is as useful and plausible as a tiny invisible creature.

In fact, what is the difference?

The mystical Trinity is an echo of the shamanic construction and
observation that in order for there to be a world that we are aware of,
there needs to be something there to be aware of (God the father), and something capable of being aware (the Holy Ghost), and the resultant
awareness (God the son)

It finds echoes in quantum physics today, where God equates to the
quantum probability field, the Holy Ghost as the consciousness that
interacts with it to produce the space-time-energy reality of the
classical world,

Nothing supernatural at all. Just an artifact of how we perceive
reality, that's all.

And nothing much to do with a smart Jew called Moses who went up a
mountain and came back with something only guile cunning and the
invention of writing could do. A pre prepared moral code, literally set
in stone and with the authority of the miraculous (These are not what I
made earlier, honest. I just found em)...a technique later copied by
Brigham Young.

In the end the question of what-the-fuck-is-'here'? and what-the-fuck-are-we-supposed-to-do-about-it? remains fundamentally unresolved, bit civilisation has grown based on beliefs that ensure
people play nice together. More or less.

Although no one is clear as to whether this is a GoodThing? or not.

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 15/03/2026 02:45, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 14 Mar 2026 22:38:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 14/03/2026 17:36, rbowman wrote:

The question is why Rome adopted Christianity.

Seriously? A religion that says that being a slave is cool, its part of
God's plan and you get your reward in Heaven?

What's not to like?

I realize you have no use for him but Nietzsche had quite a bit to say on that subject.

Nietzsche had quite a bit to say on everything...Most of it pretty much bollocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0hme2kkPg0

You might get pie in the sky when you die, but there's no beer.

Ah but there is an overabundance of Ecstasy...allegedly


--
?I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.?

? Leo Tolstoy


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 3/15/26 08:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/03/2026 02:39, rbowman wrote:

When you don't have either antibiotics or a microscope, a demon that
gives you diarrhoea is as useful and plausible as a tiny invisible
creature.

In fact, what is the difference?

Well ... 'demons'/'evil spirits' were generally assumed
to be intelligent - maliciously intelligent - whereas an
anthrax spore isn't except in the ultra-basic 'animal
instinct' fashion which can apply even to a blade of grass.

So, you had to 'pray away' demons - set stronger gods
against them.

Bacteria ... that requires 'chemical incantations'
that produce more tangible cures.

As for the gross abuse of 'religious ideas' ... nothing
new about that. Most every Great King, to an extent even
modern political leaders, do that in some ways.

"You gave me fortune, you gave me fame, you gave
me power in your gods name ...."

Church/State ... always two sides of the same coin.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 16/03/2026 04:03, c186282 wrote:

On 3/15/26 08:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/03/2026 02:39, rbowman wrote:

When you don't have either antibiotics or a microscope, a demon that
gives you diarrhoea is as useful and plausible as a tiny invisible
creature.

In fact, what is the difference?

ÿ Well ... 'demons'/'evil spirits' were generally assumed
ÿ to be intelligent - maliciously intelligent - whereas an
ÿ anthrax spore isn't except in the ultra-basic 'animal
ÿ instinct' fashion which can apply even to a blade of grass.

ÿ So, you had to 'pray away' demons - set stronger gods
ÿ against them.

Like antibiotics.
Strong magic. The zulu word for magic is the one they use for medicine.
The mayan word for the squits is the same word as an evil spirit

ÿ Bacteria ... that requires 'chemical incantations'
ÿ that produce more tangible cures.

Pit the God of Mould against the God of fever.

ÿ As for the gross abuse of 'religious ideas' ... nothing
ÿ new about that. Most every Great King, to an extent even
ÿ modern political leaders, do that in some ways.

ÿ "You gave me fortune, you gave me fame, you gave
ÿ me power in your gods name ...."

Neat!
Dylans 'Guns in our hands and God on our side'.

ÿ Church/State ... always two sides of the same coin.

Profane religion yes.

But mysticism/philosophy. Absolutely not

That's why the Gospel of Mary Magdalene got left out of the Bible


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
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