• Will high RAM prices force gamers into the cloud?

    From Spalls Hurgenson@3:633/10 to All on Monday, January 19, 2026 21:08:41

    It's not really a new idea, but it's the gist of an article at
    TomsGuides.* With prices of hardware skyrocketing --RAM is currently
    getting the biggest hikes, but GPUs, HDDs, SSDs and CPUs are all
    getting really expensive too-- maybe the 'solution' is just to cut out
    the 'middle-man' and run everything on cheap, local processors that
    stream game-data from servers on the cloud. After all, even with a
    ten-year old processor and GPU with minimal RAM, you can get HD
    visuals if the server on the other side is powerful enough. So why
    spend $1500USD or more on a 'gaming PC' when a $200 Chromebook can get
    you virtually the same results?

    Now, of course, pretty much everyone here laughs at this idea. I
    already know your objections:

    "What about the latency?"
    "What about the artifacting from compressing the
    video stream?"
    "What about extra subscription costs?"
    "What about having to be tethered to the Internet
    to play?"
    "What about making it so publishers can
    shut down any of our games at their whim?"

    And, look... I hear you. I agree with all these issues. I've
    absolutely no interest in transitioning to cloud-only gaming. But this
    really isn't about us.

    It's about the hundred-million strong ordinary gamers, who wouldn't
    know a GPU from an SSD, who don't really care if they're getting 60fps
    or 120fps, who barely understand what latency is. What they care more
    about is:
    Can I play this popular game right now, and how much
    will it cost me?

    And if /our/ answer is $1500 for a good PC and $70 for a single the
    game, and the streaming option is $300 + $30/mo for several hundred
    games... well, which one do you think they'll pick?

    And it's not like gamers will get much support from the publishers.
    They'd LOVE the idea of streaming everything. Full control over their
    games? Cutting the support costs because everyone would, essentially,
    be running the same hardware? An endless subscription stream? All that
    tasty personal data? Being able to shove old games into 'a vault' to
    force people to play the newest games? And then making them buy the
    old games anew in five or ten years? Maybe even throwing some
    advertising in between gaming sessions? It's a bonanza!

    It's not that I think all publishers are conspiring towards this goal
    (though some of them are. Microsoft especially has bitten deeply into
    the software-as-a-service vision, and Amazon's giant server farms are
    perfect for this idea). But neither are any of the major (or even
    minor) publishers that opposed to it either. It's just more profitable
    and easier to develop for streaming services.

    It's a scary vision, and one that increasingly seems likely to come to
    pass. The average gamer just doesn't CARE about the loss of their
    freedoms --just look how GOG is struggling because nobody really cares
    about DRM-free software-- and ultimately the lower price will win out.
    I always thought it was the inevitable future of gaming... but I
    thought maybe we'd have a few more years of freedom. But with these
    rapid increases in hardware costs, it seems the salad days of PC
    gaming are coming to a close quicker than I expected.

    What do you think; are the high prices going to push more gamers to
    the cloud, to the point that local gaming will become the less popular
    option? Or will the market react against this and keep games installed
    on our hard-drives and running on our hardware?









    ----
    * good for you; you knew where to look for the URL to the article! https://www.tomsguide.com/gaming/i-dont-like-it-but-the-ram-crisis-might-force-gamers-to-play-on-the-cloud



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Monday, January 19, 2026 18:30:07
    On 1/19/2026 6:08 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    It's not really a new idea, but it's the gist of an article at
    TomsGuides.* With prices of hardware skyrocketing --RAM is currently
    getting the biggest hikes, but GPUs, HDDs, SSDs and CPUs are all
    getting really expensive too-- maybe the 'solution' is just to cut out
    the 'middle-man' and run everything on cheap, local processors that
    stream game-data from servers on the cloud. After all, even with a
    ten-year old processor and GPU with minimal RAM, you can get HD
    visuals if the server on the other side is powerful enough. So why
    spend $1500USD or more on a 'gaming PC' when a $200 Chromebook can get
    you virtually the same results?

    Bandwidth.

    At least in the US the telecoms have resisted building fiber-optic
    networks for years. Only recently have they started doing so and even
    then the bigger companies are heavily choking the speed and setting the
    prices too high.

    I'm lucky in this, I've been using a local ISP for 20+ years and after
    waiting for the local telecom megacorp to do something they finally just started building the fiber-optic infrastructure themselves. So I
    finally got it within the last year. (Might have been able to get it a
    bit earlier but my landlord tried to force me to use the wireless
    network from AT&T. Even if AT&T wasn't charging three times as much for
    half the speed I can't use wireless because of the security requirements
    for my work.)

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, January 20, 2026 10:38:36
    On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 18:30:07 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 1/19/2026 6:08 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    It's not really a new idea, but it's the gist of an article at
    TomsGuides.* With prices of hardware skyrocketing --RAM is currently
    getting the biggest hikes, but GPUs, HDDs, SSDs and CPUs are all
    getting really expensive too-- maybe the 'solution' is just to cut out
    the 'middle-man' and run everything on cheap, local processors that
    stream game-data from servers on the cloud. After all, even with a
    ten-year old processor and GPU with minimal RAM, you can get HD
    visuals if the server on the other side is powerful enough. So why
    spend $1500USD or more on a 'gaming PC' when a $200 Chromebook can get
    you virtually the same results?

    Bandwidth.

    At least in the US the telecoms have resisted building fiber-optic
    networks for years. Only recently have they started doing so and even
    then the bigger companies are heavily choking the speed and setting the >prices too high.

    True, one should never underestimate the backwardness of USAmerican
    telecoms. But I'm not sure that's such a limitation as it used to be.

    Yes, there are corners of the country where getting broadband of any
    type is either extremely expensive or downright impossible... but
    numerically, that's not as much of the population as it used to be,
    and it's getting smaller every day. Video-streaming has seen to that.
    You don't actually need super-fast broadband for streaming games.
    GeForce Now suggests 15Mbps for 60fps HD; higher than what's needed
    for video streaming, sure (I think netflix needs 10Mbps?) but not much
    higher.

    Even in backwardstan-America, that's well within the majority of
    American's reach (in fact, the average download speed in the US is
    reported to be 200Mbps)*. And for the minority who don't have access
    to that sort of bandwidth? Well, they'll be left behind, the same way
    people still running Windows95 or using a Playstation connected to a
    CRT have been forgotten.

    I don't think the bandwidth requirements are really going to be the
    major hold-up.





    * at least that's what this self-serving website says https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/fastest-slowest-internet



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Justisaur@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, January 20, 2026 09:00:32
    On 1/19/2026 6:08 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    It's not really a new idea, but it's the gist of an article at
    TomsGuides.* With prices of hardware skyrocketing --RAM is currently
    getting the biggest hikes, but GPUs, HDDs, SSDs and CPUs are all
    getting really expensive too-- maybe the 'solution' is just to cut out
    the 'middle-man' and run everything on cheap, local processors that
    stream game-data from servers on the cloud. After all, even with a
    ten-year old processor and GPU with minimal RAM, you can get HD
    visuals if the server on the other side is powerful enough. So why
    spend $1500USD or more on a 'gaming PC' when a $200 Chromebook can get
    you virtually the same results?

    Now, of course, pretty much everyone here laughs at this idea. I
    already know your objections:

    "What about the latency?"
    "What about the artifacting from compressing the
    video stream?"
    "What about extra subscription costs?"
    "What about having to be tethered to the Internet
    to play?"
    "What about making it so publishers can
    shut down any of our games at their whim?"

    And, look... I hear you. I agree with all these issues. I've
    absolutely no interest in transitioning to cloud-only gaming. But this
    really isn't about us.

    It's about the hundred-million strong ordinary gamers, who wouldn't
    know a GPU from an SSD, who don't really care if they're getting 60fps
    or 120fps, who barely understand what latency is. What they care more
    about is:
    Can I play this popular game right now, and how much
    will it cost me?

    And if /our/ answer is $1500 for a good PC and $70 for a single the
    game, and the streaming option is $300 + $30/mo for several hundred
    games... well, which one do you think they'll pick?

    And it's not like gamers will get much support from the publishers.
    They'd LOVE the idea of streaming everything. Full control over their
    games? Cutting the support costs because everyone would, essentially,
    be running the same hardware? An endless subscription stream? All that
    tasty personal data? Being able to shove old games into 'a vault' to
    force people to play the newest games? And then making them buy the
    old games anew in five or ten years? Maybe even throwing some
    advertising in between gaming sessions? It's a bonanza!

    It's not that I think all publishers are conspiring towards this goal
    (though some of them are. Microsoft especially has bitten deeply into
    the software-as-a-service vision, and Amazon's giant server farms are
    perfect for this idea). But neither are any of the major (or even
    minor) publishers that opposed to it either. It's just more profitable
    and easier to develop for streaming services.

    It's a scary vision, and one that increasingly seems likely to come to
    pass. The average gamer just doesn't CARE about the loss of their
    freedoms --just look how GOG is struggling because nobody really cares
    about DRM-free software-- and ultimately the lower price will win out.
    I always thought it was the inevitable future of gaming... but I
    thought maybe we'd have a few more years of freedom. But with these
    rapid increases in hardware costs, it seems the salad days of PC
    gaming are coming to a close quicker than I expected.

    What do you think; are the high prices going to push more gamers to
    the cloud, to the point that local gaming will become the less popular option? Or will the market react against this and keep games installed
    on our hard-drives and running on our hardware?

    The latency is pretty bad. Any type of online multiplayer and/or action
    game you're going to notice it. O.k. maybe you won't notice it, and
    you'll just feel like you're really bad at games unless you try a
    non-streamed version somewhere. The only types of games you aren't are
    turn based. You don't need a $1500 PC to play the types of games that
    aren't affected (well maybe BG3.)

    You're better off with a console or tablet for what it does.

    I saw an ad for using your $15 amazon fire TV stick as an Xbox now, so
    there's that. I think they mentioned 'cloud gaming' very quickly once.
    So there's that. :/

    --
    -Justisaur

    ?-?
    (\_/)\
    `-'\ `--.___,
    ?ª'\( ,_.-'
    \\
    ^'

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From phoenix@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, January 20, 2026 12:51:58
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 18:30:07 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 1/19/2026 6:08 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    It's not really a new idea, but it's the gist of an article at
    TomsGuides.* With prices of hardware skyrocketing --RAM is currently
    getting the biggest hikes, but GPUs, HDDs, SSDs and CPUs are all
    getting really expensive too-- maybe the 'solution' is just to cut out
    the 'middle-man' and run everything on cheap, local processors that
    stream game-data from servers on the cloud. After all, even with a
    ten-year old processor and GPU with minimal RAM, you can get HD
    visuals if the server on the other side is powerful enough. So why
    spend $1500USD or more on a 'gaming PC' when a $200 Chromebook can get
    you virtually the same results?

    Bandwidth.

    At least in the US the telecoms have resisted building fiber-optic
    networks for years. Only recently have they started doing so and even
    then the bigger companies are heavily choking the speed and setting the
    prices too high.

    True, one should never underestimate the backwardness of USAmerican
    telecoms. But I'm not sure that's such a limitation as it used to be.

    Yes, there are corners of the country where getting broadband of any
    type is either extremely expensive or downright impossible... but numerically, that's not as much of the population as it used to be,
    and it's getting smaller every day. Video-streaming has seen to that.
    You don't actually need super-fast broadband for streaming games.
    GeForce Now suggests 15Mbps for 60fps HD; higher than what's needed
    for video streaming, sure (I think netflix needs 10Mbps?) but not much higher.

    Even in backwardstan-America, that's well within the majority of
    American's reach (in fact, the average download speed in the US is
    reported to be 200Mbps)*. And for the minority who don't have access
    to that sort of bandwidth? Well, they'll be left behind, the same way
    people still running Windows95 or using a Playstation connected to a
    CRT have been forgotten.

    I don't think the bandwidth requirements are really going to be the
    major hold-up.

    I'm pretty certain he was talking about artificial bandwidth
    restrictions. The capacity exists but the cheap ISPs etc. are doling it
    out like insulin. It's similar to the hard drive capacity that is barely growing. I think this is because if you have 8 TB of hard drive, you
    could easily use your computer to build a nuclear weapon. That's why
    they limit personal computers, so that the populace doesn't develop
    nuclear weapons.

    --
    xGytDsqkQY8

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From rms@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, January 20, 2026 17:13:54
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 11:46:58

    On a related note, Microsoft has recently reported* that they're
    making their XBox app so it runs on ARM PCs (that is, PCs that use an
    ARM-based CPU and chipset). Right now it's limited to Windows 11 ARM
    PCs but there's little to prevent them from making the app also run
    on, say, Android or Apple Silicon (which itself is based on ARM).

    Microsoft is increasingly pushing for people to move to
    Software-as-a-Service (SAAS) subscriptions, where you stream games
    from their servers; it's been their end-game for decades. And while
    Microsoft's star is dimming, they still remain a *major* influence on
    PC gaming. The question isn't /if/ streaming/SAAS will become the
    norm, but when. Microsoft wants it sooner rather than later. The high
    hardware costs only are helping in their achieving that goal.

    I'm not sure even the high costs of the primitive American telecom
    system will be enough to resist that move. For one thing, it's (for
    most people) 'good enough' already, especially since they're already
    paying for the bandwidth to stream Netflix or Amazon, or whatever. A
    lot of gamers also aren't playing on high-end hardware where UHD (and
    thus super-fast broadband) are required; if you're playing on an 8"
    mobile screen (like SteamDeck) or even a 12" Chromebook, a 720p stream
    (and an 8mbps interconnection) is sufficient. Instead, these people
    will look at the relative costs... and at least now, in the
    introductory period**, the SAAS cost looks a lot less.

    "Good enough", "lower cost" and all the major players are pushing you
    in that direction? It's hard to see streaming games /not/ catching on
    in a major way. "Real Gamers" (like us! ;-) will resist, of course...
    but when you have 500 million gamers going the streaming route, and a
    few million saying, 'No, I wanna play the game on my own hardware',
    it's easy to guess which route developers will follow.






    ----
    * they say so here: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2026/01/21/play-more-xbox-app-is-now-available-on-arm-based-windows-11-pcs/
    ** once streaming services capture the market, they'll splinter into a
    dozen services and start cranking up the costs, of course.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Justisaur@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, January 22, 2026 11:23:03
    On 1/22/2026 8:46 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    On a related note, Microsoft has recently reported* that they're
    making their XBox app so it runs on ARM PCs (that is, PCs that use an ARM-based CPU and chipset). Right now it's limited to Windows 11 ARM
    PCs but there's little to prevent them from making the app also run
    on, say, Android or Apple Silicon (which itself is based on ARM).

    Microsoft is increasingly pushing for people to move to
    Software-as-a-Service (SAAS) subscriptions, where you stream games
    from their servers; it's been their end-game for decades. And while Microsoft's star is dimming, they still remain a *major* influence on
    PC gaming. The question isn't /if/ streaming/SAAS will become the
    norm, but when. Microsoft wants it sooner rather than later. The high hardware costs only are helping in their achieving that goal.

    I'm not sure even the high costs of the primitive American telecom
    system will be enough to resist that move. For one thing, it's (for
    most people) 'good enough' already, especially since they're already
    paying for the bandwidth to stream Netflix or Amazon, or whatever. A
    lot of gamers also aren't playing on high-end hardware where UHD (and
    thus super-fast broadband) are required; if you're playing on an 8"
    mobile screen (like SteamDeck) or even a 12" Chromebook, a 720p stream
    (and an 8mbps interconnection) is sufficient. Instead, these people
    will look at the relative costs... and at least now, in the
    introductory period**, the SAAS cost looks a lot less.

    "Good enough", "lower cost" and all the major players are pushing you
    in that direction? It's hard to see streaming games /not/ catching on
    in a major way. "Real Gamers" (like us! ;-) will resist, of course...
    but when you have 500 million gamers going the streaming route, and a
    few million saying, 'No, I wanna play the game on my own hardware',
    it's easy to guess which route developers will follow.

    I think they'd need to be making games specifically for streaming for it
    to really work, to account for the lag etc. maybe just by making the
    games less twitch based, essentially easier. I'm sure that's coming.
    PS+ cloud has some AI prediction for input but it doesn't really work
    and the AI is playing the game itself at that point.

    --
    -Justisaur

    ?-?
    (\_/)\
    `-'\ `--.___,
    ?ª'\( ,_.-'
    \\
    ^'

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From candycanearter07@3:633/10 to All on Friday, January 23, 2026 15:50:03
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
    On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 18:30:07 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 1/19/2026 6:08 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    It's not really a new idea, but it's the gist of an article at
    TomsGuides.* With prices of hardware skyrocketing --RAM is currently
    getting the biggest hikes, but GPUs, HDDs, SSDs and CPUs are all
    getting really expensive too-- maybe the 'solution' is just to cut out
    the 'middle-man' and run everything on cheap, local processors that
    stream game-data from servers on the cloud. After all, even with a
    ten-year old processor and GPU with minimal RAM, you can get HD
    visuals if the server on the other side is powerful enough. So why
    spend $1500USD or more on a 'gaming PC' when a $200 Chromebook can get
    you virtually the same results?

    Bandwidth.

    At least in the US the telecoms have resisted building fiber-optic >>networks for years. Only recently have they started doing so and even >>then the bigger companies are heavily choking the speed and setting the >>prices too high.

    True, one should never underestimate the backwardness of USAmerican
    telecoms. But I'm not sure that's such a limitation as it used to be.

    Yes, there are corners of the country where getting broadband of any
    type is either extremely expensive or downright impossible... but numerically, that's not as much of the population as it used to be,
    and it's getting smaller every day. Video-streaming has seen to that.
    You don't actually need super-fast broadband for streaming games.
    GeForce Now suggests 15Mbps for 60fps HD; higher than what's needed
    for video streaming, sure (I think netflix needs 10Mbps?) but not much higher.

    Even in backwardstan-America, that's well within the majority of
    American's reach (in fact, the average download speed in the US is
    reported to be 200Mbps)*. And for the minority who don't have access
    to that sort of bandwidth? Well, they'll be left behind, the same way
    people still running Windows95 or using a Playstation connected to a
    CRT have been forgotten.

    I don't think the bandwidth requirements are really going to be the
    major hold-up.





    * at least that's what this self-serving website says https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/fastest-slowest-internet


    Even if there ISN'T the infrastructure for it, companies will certainly
    try it if they think they can. Like the Xbox One's launch controversy
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From candycanearter07@3:633/10 to All on Friday, January 23, 2026 15:50:05
    Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote at 19:23 this Thursday (GMT):
    On 1/22/2026 8:46 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    On a related note, Microsoft has recently reported* that they're
    making their XBox app so it runs on ARM PCs (that is, PCs that use an
    ARM-based CPU and chipset). Right now it's limited to Windows 11 ARM
    PCs but there's little to prevent them from making the app also run
    on, say, Android or Apple Silicon (which itself is based on ARM).

    Microsoft is increasingly pushing for people to move to
    Software-as-a-Service (SAAS) subscriptions, where you stream games
    from their servers; it's been their end-game for decades. And while
    Microsoft's star is dimming, they still remain a *major* influence on
    PC gaming. The question isn't /if/ streaming/SAAS will become the
    norm, but when. Microsoft wants it sooner rather than later. The high
    hardware costs only are helping in their achieving that goal.

    I'm not sure even the high costs of the primitive American telecom
    system will be enough to resist that move. For one thing, it's (for
    most people) 'good enough' already, especially since they're already
    paying for the bandwidth to stream Netflix or Amazon, or whatever. A
    lot of gamers also aren't playing on high-end hardware where UHD (and
    thus super-fast broadband) are required; if you're playing on an 8"
    mobile screen (like SteamDeck) or even a 12" Chromebook, a 720p stream
    (and an 8mbps interconnection) is sufficient. Instead, these people
    will look at the relative costs... and at least now, in the
    introductory period**, the SAAS cost looks a lot less.

    "Good enough", "lower cost" and all the major players are pushing you
    in that direction? It's hard to see streaming games /not/ catching on
    in a major way. "Real Gamers" (like us! ;-) will resist, of course...
    but when you have 500 million gamers going the streaming route, and a
    few million saying, 'No, I wanna play the game on my own hardware',
    it's easy to guess which route developers will follow.

    I think they'd need to be making games specifically for streaming for it
    to really work, to account for the lag etc. maybe just by making the
    games less twitch based, essentially easier. I'm sure that's coming.
    PS+ cloud has some AI prediction for input but it doesn't really work
    and the AI is playing the game itself at that point.


    So it could be the end of fast paced games if this goes through?
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)