• Re: What is your Google Play system update date?

    From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 09, 2026 16:10:09
    On 3/9/26 1:45 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G (Android 13) APEX listing shows a full set of
    Google Mainline modules, but my Google Play system update date is stuck at >June 1, 2023 when viewed by System > About phone > Software information


    If you have a Samsung, what is your Google Play system update date?
    Are all Samsung's frozen? Or just mine?

    This Samsung Galaxy A11+ tablet I'm posting with says November 1, 2025.


    I ran Termux & looked at the /system/apex directory...

    $ cd /system
    /system $ cd apex
    /system/apex $ dir
    com.android.apex.cts.shim.apex
    com.android.btservices.apex
    com.android.i18n.apex
    com.android.runtime.apex
    com.android.uwb.capex
    com.android.vndk.current.apex
    com.android.wifi.capex
    com.google.android.adbd_compressed.apex >com.google.android.adservices_compressed.apex >com.google.android.appsearch_compressed.apex >com.google.android.art_compressed.apex >com.google.android.cellbroadcast_compressed.apex >com.google.android.conscrypt_compressed.apex >com.google.android.extservices_compressed.apex >com.google.android.ipsec_compressed.apex >com.google.android.media.swcodec_compressed.apex >com.google.android.media_compressed.apex >com.google.android.mediaprovider_compressed.apex >com.google.android.neuralnetworks_compressed.apex >com.google.android.ondevicepersonalization_compressed.apex >com.google.android.os.statsd_compressed.apex >com.google.android.permission_compressed.apex >com.google.android.resolv_compressed.apex >com.google.android.scheduling_compressed.apex >com.google.android.sdkext_compressed.apex >com.google.android.tethering_compressed.apex
    com.google.android.tzdata4.apex
    com.google.mainline.primary.libs.apex
    com.samsung.android.ipm.apex
    com.samsung.android.shell.apex
    com.samsung.android.spqr.apex
    /system/apex $

    Apparently these are the baseline Android components: >com.android.btservices.apex - Bluetooth stack
    com.android.i18n.apex - internationalization libraries >com.android.runtime.apex - ART runtime (Dalvik/ART) >com.android.vndk.current.apex - vendor compatibility libraries >com.android.wifi.capex - Wi-Fi stack
    com.android.uwb.capex - ultra-wideband stack (if hardware present) >com.android.apex.cts.shim.apex - compatibility shim
    Apparently those are not updated through Google Play on Samsung.
    They update only through Samsung firmware OTAs

    Apparently these are Google Mainline APEX modules >com.google.android.adbd_compressed.apex - ADB daemon >com.google.android.adservices_compressed.apex - Privacy Sandbox ad services >com.google.android.appsearch_compressed.apex - on-device search index >com.google.android.art_compressed.apex - ART runtime (Google version) >com.google.android.cellbroadcast_compressed.apex - emergency alerts >com.google.android.conscrypt_compressed.apex - TLS/SSL crypto provider >com.google.android.extservices_compressed.apex - text classification /
    smart actions
    com.google.android.ipsec_compressed.apex - VPN/IPsec stack >com.google.android.media_compressed.apex - media framework >com.google.android.media.swcodec_compressed.apex - software codecs >com.google.android.mediaprovider_compressed.apex - media indexing >com.google.android.neuralnetworks_compressed.apex - NNAPI >com.google.android.ondevicepersonalization_compressed.apex - ODP >personalization engine
    com.google.android.os.statsd_compressed.apex - system telemetry >com.google.android.permission_compressed.apex - permission enforcement >com.google.android.resolv_compressed.apex - DNS resolver >com.google.android.scheduling_compressed.apex - job scheduler >com.google.android.sdkext_compressed.apex - SDK extensions >com.google.android.tethering_compressed.apex - tethering stack >com.google.android.tzdata4.apex - time zone data >com.google.mainline.primary.libs.apex - shared libraries for Mainline

    Apparently these are Samsung-specific system components: >com.samsung.android.ipm.apex - Samsung Intelligent Performance Manager >com.samsung.android.shell.apex - Samsung shell environment >com.samsung.android.spqr.apex - Samsung security/privilege framework
    These are apparently unique to Samsung and replace some Google behaviors

    In summary, apparently the APEX modules exist in /system/apex/.
    a. They load normally at boot.
    b. But they never update through Google Play.
    Apparently, they only update when Samsung pushes a full firmware OTA.

    Are my APEX modules frozen because Samsung freezes them, or because I >disabled something? What matters is what other Samsungs show.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From David Oseas@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 09, 2026 09:51:38
    On 3/9/2026 1:45 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G (Android 13) APEX listing shows a full set of
    Google Mainline modules, but my Google Play system update date is stuck at June 1, 2023 when viewed by System > About phone > Software information

    If you have a Samsung, what is your Google Play system update date? Are
    all Samsung's frozen? Or just mine?



    I'm on February 1, 2026 on both my S23 phone & A9+ tablet.

    I've had to do manual Play System updates for a while -- to do so, click
    on the words "Google Play system update" on the screen displaying the
    Play System version.

    -David

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 09, 2026 18:03:22
    On 3/9/26 9:51 AM, David Oseas wrote:
    On 3/9/2026 1:45 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G (Android 13) APEX listing shows a full set of
    Google Mainline modules, but my Google Play system update date is stuck at >> June 1, 2023 when viewed by System > About phone > Software information

    If you have a Samsung, what is your Google Play system update date? Are
    all Samsung's frozen? Or just mine?



    I'm on February 1, 2026 on both my S23 phone & A9+ tablet.

    I've had to do manual Play System updates for a while -- to do so, click
    on the words "Google Play system update" on the screen displaying the
    Play System version.


    Interesting. On my Samsung tablet I didn't realize that was a button cause
    it had the date info displayed on it. When I pushed it, it updated from
    November 1, 2025 to February 1, 2026. Wonder why it's not automatic? Weird.
    Thanks.


    -David



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 09, 2026 20:21:23
    On 3/9/26 12:54 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    I'm on February 1, 2026 on both my S23 phone & A9+ tablet.

    I've had to do manual Play System updates for a while -- to do so, click >>>on the words "Google Play system update" on the screen displaying the >>>Play System version.


    Interesting. On my Samsung tablet I didn't realize that was a button cause >> it had the date info displayed on it. When I pushed it, it updated from
    November 1, 2025 to February 1, 2026. Wonder why it's not automatic? Weird. >> Thanks.

    Thanks for that information from AJL & David Oseas as it shows that the >"Google Play system update" is updating on both your Samsung devices.

    On my Android 13 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, longpressing on the "Google Play >system update" in the Settings > About phone > Software information doesn't >do anything but of course, my April 2021 SM-A326U phone is out of support.
    Android Security Patch Level = February 1, 2025

    But wait!
    Don't *all* Android 10+ phones (get monthly) Project Mainline updates?

    What's the date on your /system/apex files?
    Mine appear to be frozen in time...
    Termux> ls -l /system/apex
    com.google.android.adbd_compressed.apex Dec 31,2008
    com.google.android.adservices_compressed.apex Dec 31,2008
    com.google.android.appsearch_compressed.apex Dec 31,2008
    etc.


    The reason I ask the question is that it appears that my Samsung Galaxy >A32-5G (which is no longer fully supported) is NOT getting the Project >Mainline APEX (Android Pony Express) modules that I thought *all* Android
    10+ phones are getting. They exist for sure, but they're not ever updated.

    Well... I went and pushed that magic button on my 6 year old Samsung Galaxy
    S10+ (Android 12) and darned if it didn't also update to February 1, 2026.
    Again it seems weird that the "security" Play System update (listed under
    Biomentrics and Security on this phone) didn't automatically update being
    that it was obviously available...


    The whole point of Project Mainline was to improve security-patch speed and >reduce reliance on OEM full-system updates, yet, mine isn't updating.

    It could be something I did though, since everyone else's Google Play >services update (so far) is newer than mine, as mine has never updated.

    Can others, especially AJL who just updated today, check their dates?
    Termux> ls -l /system/apex
    Or, if you don't have termux:
    adb shell ls -l /system/apex

    The reason I ask is I'm assuming if Mainline is working, then the Google
    APEX modules will have recent timestamps (most likely with date stamps >matching the Google Play system update date).



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Layman@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 09, 2026 22:08:31
    On 09/03/2026 08:45, Maria Sophia wrote:
    My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G (Android 13) APEX listing shows a full set of
    Google Mainline modules, but my Google Play system update date is stuck at June 1, 2023 when viewed by System > About phone > Software information

    If you have a Samsung, what is your Google Play system update date?
    Are all Samsung's frozen? Or just mine?

    (snip)
    Is there anything of interest to you here? <https://android.gadgethacks.com/news/android-play-system-update-shows-2024-google-explains/>

    --
    Jeff

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 09, 2026 22:41:56
    On 3/9/26 1:39 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    Well... I went and pushed that magic button on my 6 year old Samsung Galaxy >> S10+ (Android 12) and darned if it didn't also update to February 1, 2026. >> Again it seems weird that the "security" Play System update (listed under >> Biomentrics and Security on this phone) didn't automatically update being >> that it was obviously available...

    Thanks AJL for confirming that the magic button is working on an Android 12 >S10+, since what matters most for this thread isn't my own phone (as I
    could have broken something) but what happens on everyone else's phone.

    I'm trying to prove whether or not Project Mainline is working.
    I'm sure it is.

    But I'd like to see proof that Mainline is updating APEX modules monthly.
    And I think you showed good evidence, even if it may not be proof, per se.

    In a test I just ran (in response to Andy's post), I "think" my Galaxy >doesn't expose the /apex mount point (only the /system/apex copy), so it's >hard for me to tell what the actual versions are on my APEX modules.

    Only the Pixels know for sure. :)

    Just to be clear, I don't really care about my phone, (as it's very likely
    I broke something long ago), but what I do care very much about is how to >tell EXACTLY if Project Mainline is updating monthly everyone's modules.



    So far, it seems that, (by all account?), the "Google Play system update" >button doesn't work automagically, but maybe a reboot would do it too?

    Dunno. In its youth IIRC Samsung occasionally required my Galaxy S10+ to
    update and reboot. However in recent times it hasn't requested such. I'm
    Probablly derelect in not just doing it periodically myself. Resolution:
    I'll start. This Chromebook I'm posting with is 3 years old now and it
    still bugs me when an update is needed. Dunno about the Play System though
    as it's not listed in settings even though the Chromebook runs Android (I'm
    posting with an Android app). But then from what I read Chromebooks as I
    know them are on their way out and that nasty OS Android will be taking
    them over...




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 10, 2026 01:43:48
    On 3/9/26 4:10 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    So far, it seems that, (by all account?), the "Google Play system update" >>>button doesn't work automagically, but maybe a reboot would do it too?

    Dunno. In its youth IIRC Samsung occasionally required my Galaxy S10+ to
    update and reboot. However in recent times it hasn't requested such. I'm
    Probablly derelect in not just doing it periodically myself. Resolution:
    I'll start. This Chromebook I'm posting with is 3 years old now and it
    still bugs me when an update is needed. Dunno about the Play System though >> as it's not listed in settings even though the Chromebook runs Android (I'm >> posting with an Android app). But then from what I read Chromebooks as I
    know them are on their way out and that nasty OS Android will be taking
    them over...

    Interesting that folks have to "push the button" to get the Google Play >system update to update, as we'd all think it should be automatic.

    Even worse if you have to reboot in order to get it to be automatic.

    The whole point of my action was to prove, for sure, that Project Mainline >was updating my phone monthly (and yours, and everyone else's phone too!).

    However, in one way, my system is the wrong one to test because it's highly >modified, although, in another way, it's the perfect system to test 'cuz I >don't have the google play store app, nor do I have a google account set up >on the phone, so if my phone is updating monthly, then yours is too! :)

    Since I can't read what's in /apex (apparently Pixels can), I can only look >at my "staging" area in /system/apex, but those files have very old dates,
    so that tells me almost nothing of value on my Samsung device.

    As a compromise, I started looking at the date for the google play system >update, which is when I realized mine is really off kilter compared to >everyone else's. Then Jeff pointed out that the google Play system update >date is the date of only a single file - which - gets even more complicated >since it's a different file on each device apparently. Sheesh. So complex.

    The date shown in Settings > Security > Google Play system update
    apparently comes from the timestamp of the "APEX session" responsible for
    the last successfully applied Mainline module.

    Hence, it is not the newest module on the device because it's the one that >last triggered a system-level session commit. Apparently that means the >displayed date corresponds to one specific APEX module, but which one
    varies by device, OEM, and update sequence. OMG. Can't they make it easy?

    Apparently, the date is tied to the last module that required a reboot to >finalize, because only those modules create a system-level "session" that >updates the global timestamp of the Google Play system update button.

    These are the modules that most often require a reboot, apparently:
    com.android.runtime.apex - ART (Android Runtime)
    com.android.conscrypt.apex - TLS/SSL security provider
    com.android.media.apex - media codecs
    com.android.permission.apex - permission controller
    com.android.adbd.apex - ADB daemon
    com.android.os.statsd.apex - stats daemon

    But wait. It gets worse.

    On Pixels, apparently the date often corresponds to ART or Conscrypt.
    But on Samsung devices, it is apparently Conscrypt or Permission because >Samsung blocks or delays ART updates after major One UI releases.

    At least there is a Venn overlap with com.android.conscrypt.apex

    Apparently, pressing the Google Play system update button works because it >triggers Android's Mainline update client to run a forced check-and-apply >cycle for modular APEX/APK components.

    Apparently, pressing that button contacts Google's update servers and asks >for any pending APEX or APK-based Mainline modules. It then attempts to >install any modules that it downloaded or which were previously downloaded >but no "commit" step occurred.

    What's that commit step?
    Hell if I know, but it seems to be one of two actions for sure:
    1. If the user reboots, or,
    2. If the user manually triggers that update.

    In summary, apparently, the reason people are seeing updates happen when
    they press the Google Play system update button is that there are two steps
    1. Download
    2. Apply (or reboot)

    Hence, the "Google Play system update" date is not the date of all modules. >It is the date of the last APEX module that successfully committed.

    Why is this so complicated. It should be more intuitive. Sigh.

    I would say for us less technical folks it definitely should be more
    automatic. I don't keep sensitive stuff on my 6 year old Samsung phone
    because I don't expect security on it to be up to date. Likewise my other
    lower Android versioned toys. However I do (did?) expect it of this brand
    new Android 16 Samsung tablet. It brags about automatic updates for 6
    years. And so I do keep sensitive stuff on it. Thus finding something on it
    that needs a manual update is a bit disconcerting even though it is
    explained away by some website...



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Layman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 10, 2026 12:55:10
    On 09/03/2026 22:50, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Jeff Layman wrote:
    Is there anything of interest to you here?
    <https://android.gadgethacks.com/news/android-play-system-update-shows-2024-google-explains/>

    Hi Jeff,

    Thanks for that article, which seems to partly explain what's going on.

    My main goal was just to figure out how to *prove* that Project Mainline
    was working, but then it got complicated 'cuz the Galaxy doesn't show
    what's in /apex (while the Pixels apparently do show what is in /apex), so I'm not sure if Project Mainline is working or not on my modified Samsung.

    I'm not sure what the "version" of Google Play system update means with respect to Project Mainline, so your article is helpful in that regard.

    *Android Play System Update Shows 2024? Google Explains (Feb 6, 2026)*
    <https://android.gadgethacks.com/news/android-play-system-update-shows-2024-google-explains/>

    Apparently the date in Settings > Security > Google Play system update reflects the timestamp of just one specific module file and worse,
    (verbatim) "The situation gets even more complex when you consider that Samsung has been blocking Play system updates for months following major Android updates, a pattern that has reportedly persisted for years"

    All I'm really trying to do is determine how to tell, for sure, that
    Project Mainline is updating modules monthly, on any given Android device.

    My assumption was that I could check the date stamps (or version data)
    on the APEX (Android pony express) modules, but apparently Samsung's don't allow permission in /apex (where apparently the Pixels do allow it).

    Sorry, but way above my Android knowledge level. On my Xiaomi, Total
    Commander shows many entries in system/apex/..., and all of them are
    dated 01/01/2009. It's Android 13, and according to Settings the last
    security update was 1 Sept 2023.

    Is there anything in the App Manager which might be of use to you? I see
    that it gives the date of installation and the date of the latest update
    for all apps.

    I was also hoping that the Google Play system update date would be
    useful in that regard, but apparently, based on the article you kindly unearthed, that may not be as meaningful as I might have hoped it to be.
    --
    Jeff

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Layman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 10, 2026 15:31:47
    On 10/03/2026 13:28, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Layman wrote:

    It's Android 13, and according to Settings the last security update was
    1 Sept 2023.

    Google Play system updates continue after android security updates are finished for a given model.

    Interesting. I just checked in "Settings" again and under Google Play
    system update it stated 1 November 2025. When I clicked on the arrow
    next to that it showed "Restart to update. Your device needs to restart
    to complete the process".

    I didn't do anything, so it restarted itself. It now says the Google
    Play system update is 1 February 2026.

    --
    Jeff

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 10, 2026 15:43:03
    Maria Sophia wrote:
    [...]

    On my Android 13 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, longpressing on the "Google Play system update" in the Settings > About phone > Software information doesn't do anything but of course, my April 2021 SM-A326U phone is out of support. Android Security Patch Level = February 1, 2025

    If you *really* do a longpress, then indeed nothing happens, because
    you should just *tap* on the "Google Play system update" message.

    FYI, on my wife's out-of-support (Android 13) A51 (probably older
    than your A32-5G) it was November 1, 2023 and - just now - after
    downloading and '[Restart now]' it's February 1, 2026!

    [...]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 10, 2026 16:38:45
    On 3/10/26 9:01 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    Hence, the "Google Play system update" date is not the date of all modules. >>>It is the date of the last APEX module that successfully committed.

    Why is this so complicated. It should be more intuitive. Sigh.

    I would say for us less technical folks it definitely should be more
    automatic. I don't keep sensitive stuff on my 6 year old Samsung phone
    because I don't expect security on it to be up to date. Likewise my other >> lower Android versioned toys. However I do (did?) expect it of this brand >> new Android 16 Samsung tablet. It brags about automatic updates for 6
    years. And so I do keep sensitive stuff on it. Thus finding something on it >> that needs a manual update is a bit disconcerting even though it is
    explained away by some website...

    Hi AJL,

    I agree with you that it should be "automatic", but apparently it's not.

    Since others have seen the same thing, we're pretty sure now, by joint >experience anyway, that the Google Play system update must be proceeding in >two distinct stages, one of which is manual, which isn't intuitive to us.

    Stage 1: Google Play system update silently downloads modules into a
    staging area (which appears to change depending on the OEM).
    (maybe /data/apex/sessions/?)

    Stage 2: But it requires a reboot for those /apex files to be mounted
    <https://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/apex/+/refs/heads/android11-mainline-permission-release/docs/>
    "If an APEX is present in a built-in partition, the APEX can
    be updated by providing an APEX package with the same package
    name and a higher version code. The new APEX is stored in /data
    and, similar to APKs, the newer version shadows the version
    already present in the built-in partition. But unlike APKs,
    the newer version of the APEX is only activated after reboot."

    It would be nice to know if we can figure out how to access those
    apex files because that alone would be proof Project Mainline works.

    I'll leave that stuff to you technical folks. If I mess too much with the
    innards on this thing I'll likely just make things worse.

    BTW I complained earlier about my PhoNews newsreader having problems running
    on Android 16. But in the last week or so it's been working fine. Dunno
    what changed. But for those looking for a newsreader it appears to again be
    worth the 2 buck...


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, March 11, 2026 03:40:26
    On 3/10/26 4:18 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    If you have a Samsung, what is your Google Play system update date?
    Are all Samsung's frozen? Or just mine?

    This Samsung Galaxy A11+ tablet I'm posting with says November 1, 2025.

    I just realized Mainline is TWO different sources, not one!
    A. Google
    B. Samsung (in my situation)

    For Mainline to work from Google, apparently four things are needed:
    1. Play Store system updater (as a system app!)
    2. Google Play services (GMSCore)
    3. ModuleMetadata
    4. APEX subsystem must have all gthe mainline modules
    (which is why removing two modules caused mainline from Google to fail)
    i. AdServices
    ii. Telemetry

    But wait. There's more!
    Samsung ALSO updates mainline packages!
    (at least the Samsung-specific ones for a Samsung device)

    For Mainline to work from Samsung, you don't need anything special!
    So Samsung's Mainline OTA has been working just fine all this time.

    Long ago, I had removed the Google Play Store <com.android.vending> package >from the user partition but apparently the SYSTEM partition package is what >matters so removing the app for the user doesn't remove the system package.
    Mainline = the modular system architecture
    Google Play system updates = one delivery mechanism (of two)

    These are, I think, the key packages of Mainline on any Android device:
    a. com.android.vending (Play Store, but installed as a system app)
    b. com.google.android.gms (Google Play services Mainline orchestrator)
    c. com.google.android.gms.update (Mainline updater)
    d. com.google.android.modulemetadata (module manifest)
    e. com.google.android.permissioncontroller (Mainline module)
    f. APEX modules like com.android.adbd.apex, com.android.media.apex, etc
    but if even one of them is missing from the user partition,
    Mainline from Google will (apparently) fail.

    Apparently Samsung uses two pipelines:
    I. Google's Mainline pipeline (com.android.vending, com.google.android.gms) >II. Samsung OTA pipeline (which heavily overrides Google's modules)

    So my Samsung OTA pipeline was likely still working all these years.
    Even as the Google Internet pipeline was likely not working all that time.

    This is the Google Play system update version.
    adb shell dumpsys package com.google.android.modulemetadata | grep
    version
    versionName = 2023-06-01 S+
    versionCode = 331851034
    Note it has not changed since June 2023.
    Also note codePath = /product/app/com.google.android.modulemetadata
    This is a system-bundled APK because if Mainline had updated it, it would
    be in /data/app/.../com.google.android.modulemetadata-xxxx/base.apk

    This shows that all my APEX modules are those shipped by the factory alone!
    adb shell pm list packages --apex-only

    For Pixels, these will work, but not for Samsungs
    adb shell dumpsys apex
    Can't find service: apex
    adb shell ls -l /apex
    ls: /apex: Permission denied
    For Samsungs, we have to use Termux:
    Termux$ cat /proc/mounts | grep apex

    Since every APEX was mounted from a loopback image, that proved
    Samsung's OTAs (not Google's Mainline) supplied those versions.

    When Google Mainline updates an APEX, we would have seen
    /data/apex/active/com.android.conscrypt@<newversion>
    But everything on my system was mounted from
    /dev/block/dm-*
    /dev/block/loop*p*

    In summary, this proves my APEX versions were the ones that
    Samsung shipped in my last March 2025 OTA.

    But as of today, with three changes, my device is whole again:
    I. I re-installed telemetry <com.google.mainline.telemetry>
    II. I re-installed adservices <com.google.mainline.adservices>
    III. I updated Google Play services <com.google.android.gms>

    Now my device is capable of receiving the next Mainline bundle.

    I just enabled Developer Options on my new Samsung tablet and there is an
    on-off switch labeled "Auto Update System" which was already turned on. The
    sentence just below it says "Apply updates when the tablet restarts." So
    apparently restarts triggering/installing updates can be turned off on this
    toy...



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From David Oseas@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, March 11, 2026 09:48:29
    On 3/10/2026 10:46 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:


    It looks like we're all realizing that we have to reboot to get updates.

    I think we've together figured out a few things, the most important being that we need to not only longpress the Google Play system update button,
    but we also need to reboot (which that button may trigger in some OEMs).

    I reboot my devices regularly, but they do not get Play System updates
    until I tap on the Play System Update button. This has been the
    behavior for all my newer devices for the past year or more. My older
    devices used to get Play System updates automatically without any action
    on my part.

    -David

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Friday, March 13, 2026 09:52:43
    On 3/11/2026 2:47 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    Now my device is capable of receiving the next Mainline bundle.

    I just enabled Developer Options on my new Samsung tablet and there is an
    on-off switch labeled "Auto Update System" which was already turned
    on. The
    sentence just below it says "Apply updates when the tablet restarts." So
    apparently restarts triggering/installing updates can be turned off
    on this
    toy...

    Hi AJL,

    Thanks for bringing up MORE reasons why Project Mainline might fail...
    Aurgh! :)

    I forgot about looking in Developer options. Let me look at mine!
    Developer options > Auto update system = on
    It may be on by default, as I don't remember setting it myself.

    Looking up what it does, it seems to possibly be "Samsung specific"
    since it appears this toggle might only affect Samsung's OTA firmware
    updates (Samsung system updates) and even then, only the final
    installation step:

    I. When ON:
    If a Samsung OTA update has already been downloaded, the device
    will automatically install it the next time we reboot.

    II. When OFF:
    The OTA will still download normally, but the device will not
    auto-apply it on reboot. We must manually confirm installation.

    So, apparently that toggle is only for the OTA half of Project Mainline.
    a. It won't block OTA downloads
    b. It won't block OTA availability
    c. It won't block Google Play system updates
    d. It won't block Mainline bundles
    e. It won't block Play services updates
    f. It won't block modulemetadata updates
    g. It won't block APEX updates
    h. It won't block APK-based Mainline modules
    Apparently it only controls whether an OTA installs automatically on
    reboot.

    But wait. There's more! Much more. Aurgh!

    I don't have the Google Play store <com.android.vending> in my user partition, but most people have it so this *does* affect Mainline updates. Profile icon > Settings > Network preferences > Auto-update apps
    a. Over any network
    b. Over Wi-Fi only
    c. Don't auto-update apps

    For me, the setting isn't used since I don't have a user Play Store app.
    adb shell settings get global auto_update_apps
    null
    Where mine isn't set to anything so it shows up as "null".
    1 -> Auto-update apps is ON
    0 -> Auto-update apps is OFF
    null -> Play Store manages it internally (common on Samsung)

    adb shell dumpsys package com.android.vending | grep -i "auto"
    ... Action: "android.intent.action.AUTO_REVOKE_PERMISSIONS"
    Where mine is not active in the user partition, but for others
    auto_update=1 -> Auto-update apps is enabled
    auto_update=0 -> Auto-update apps is disabled
    (Which means Mainline APK modules will not update)

    Yikes! It's worse than I had thought it would be!

    If the user-partition Google Play app isn't updating APKs,
    then Mainline may (will?) fail because it's an all-or-nothing bundle!

    Because Mainline bundles contain two types of modules:
    a. APEX modules (updated atomically)
    b. APK modules (updated through the Play Store) If *any* of those
    bundles are "old", Mainline "may" fail to update!

    There are three Play Store components that must exist and be active:
    1. com.android.vending
    a. This is the Play Store app itself.
    b. Even if we never open it, it must be present because:
    i. It contains the system updater service.
    ii. It contains the job scheduler for Mainline.
    iii. It contains the module delivery logic.
    c. adb shell pm path com.android.vending
    (mine reports nothing)
    (yours may report /system/priv-app/Phonesky/Phonesky.apk)
    d. adb shell pm list packages -d | grep vending
    (again, mine reports nothing)
    e. adb shell dumpsys activity processes | grep -i vending
    (mine reports nothing)
    2. com.google.android.gms (Play services)
    a. This is the Mainline "brain."
    (I just today updated this to a modern version.)
    b. adb shell pm path com.android.vending
    (Mine reports a lot of hits)
    3. com.google.android.gms.unstable (this is a process, not a package)
    a. This is the Play services process that negotiates Mainline bundles.
    i. If any of these are missing or disabled, Mainline cannot function.
    ii. My Aurora Store uploader cannot replace any of them
    b. adb shell pm path com.google.android.gms.unstable
    (Mine reports nothing)

    It gets confusing, but adb will tell us what is going on in reality.
    adb shell pm list packages | grep -E
    "extservices|adservices|telemetry|mediaprovider"
    package:com.google.mainline.telemetry
    This is for a. crash reporting
    b. system health metrics
    d. update diagnostics
    package:com.google.android.adservices.api
    package:com.google.mainline.adservices
    This is for
    a. Android Privacy Sandbox APIs
    b. on-device ad measurement c. app-to-app attribution
    without identifier

    adb shell dumpsys package com.google.mainline.telemetry | grep -i
    "codePath"

    codePath=/apex/com.android.adservices/priv-app/AdServicesApkGoogle@331814200

    adb shell dumpsys package com.google.android.adservices.api | grep
    -i "codePath"

    codePath=/data/app/~~rQOKjWIC_nHDInzudemw4A==/com.google.mainline.adservices-t58s2aeOs6X3jb0AANMqVw==

    codePath=/product/app/com.google.mainline.adservices
    adb shell dumpsys package com.google.mainline.adservices | grep -i
    "codePath"

    So even though today I re-installed 2 APKs manually (telemetry &
    adservices), I must re-install com.android.vending for Mainline to work. Sigh. C:\> adb shell cmd package install-existing com.android.vending
    i. Note that I do not need to sign in for Mainline to work.
    ii. I do not need to use the Play Store for Mainlikne to work.
    iii. I do not need to install apps with com.android.vending either.

    Drat. I hate having to install the Play Store on Android, even as I
    can't use it since I don't have a Google Account on Android.

    But, apparently, the Play Store isn't just an app downloader.
    i. The Play Store is the Mainline APK module updater
    ii. It's the Mainline bundle downloader
    iii. And it's the modulemetadata updater
    iv. It's also apparently the APEX/APK dependency validator
    v. And, apparently it's the scheduler for Mainline update jobs

    Play services is the "brain," but the Play Store is the "delivery system."
    a. Without it, Mainline can't update anything.
    b. Sigh. I hate non-intuitive complexity.
    c. Specifically, I hate having to have the Google Play Store installed.

    To check that the Play Store is installed and running, I ran:
    adb shell pm list packages | grep vending
    package:com.android.vending
    adb shell dumpsys activity processes | grep -i vending
    (lots of output)
    *APP* UID 10217 ProcessRecord{5bb08c8
    28078:com.android.vending/u0a217}
    That means it's running as a normal user process now.
    adb shell settings get global auto_update_apps
    null
    a. If it were 0, that would block Mainline APK modules.
    b. If it were 1, it would explicitly allow them.
    c. null means "Play Store decides," which is acceptable

    To check whether the Play Store has registered its Mainline update jobs
    with the system scheduler.
    adb shell dumpsys jobscheduler | grep -i vending
    JOB #u0a217/9004: com.android.vending/com.google.android.finsky.scheduler.process.mainimpl.PhoneskyJobServiceMain

    Means the Play Store has registered its main scheduler with the
    system JobScheduler
    a. PhoneskyJobServiceMain (main update scheduler)
    b. PhoneskyJobServiceBackground (background update tasks)
    c. InstantAppHygiene, PhenotypeUpdate, StatusSync (normal auxiliary jobs)
    Note there isn't a "MainlineJobSky" as it's hidden inside of Phonesky!

    adb shell dumpsys jobscheduler | grep -i finsky
    (Because "finsky" is the internal name for the Play Store.)

    To check whether the Play Store has registered its system update
    permissions correctly
    adb shell dumpsys package com.android.vending | grep -i permission

    To confirm whether the Play Store has the privileges required to apply Mainline modules.
    adb shell dumpsys package com.android.vending | grep -i
    "android.permission.UPDATE"

    To confirm whether my Mainline APEX modules are in a consistent state.
    adb shell pm list packages --apex
    That won't work for Samsung though.
    Termux$ cat /proc/mounts | grep apex This shows all core Mainline modules exist.

    Confirm that the APK-based modules I restored (Telemetry, AdServices,
    etc.) are registered and visible to the system.
    adb shell pm list packages | grep mainline

    Check whether the modulemetadata file exists and is readable.
    adb shell ls -l /data/system/modulemetadata.xml
    ls: /data/system/modulemetadata.xml: No such file or directory
    adb shell ls -l /metadata/modulemetadata.xml
    ls: /metadata/modulemetadata.xml: No such file or directory
    adb shell dumpsys modulemetadata
    Can't find service: modulemetadata

    Hmmm... apparently my device never had the Mainline metadata subsystem active.
    The absence of modulemetadata indicates Mainline has never been run!
    Because modulemetadata.xml is only created when Google pushes a Mainline bundle.

    But since I have a full set of Mainline modules, it's Samsung's OTA
    which has been updating them all along. Not Google's Mainline updater.

    Hopefully, the next Mainline bundle Google pushes will create the modulemetadata service and the XML file automatically.

    I said that PhoNews was working OK on my Samsung Android 16 tablet. I
    lied. I made a reply to this post that it said that it transmitted but
    it didn't. Then a new problem popped up. It no longer saw all the
    newsgroups. So I've given up on it. My solution? I got a new toy of
    course. This AWOW Windows 11 tablet I'm (I hope) posting with. Its the
    first tablet I've owned that gets warm and has a fan. In fact during its startup updates it got almost too hot to touch. And battery life is
    dismal. So far not impressed but hey it's something new to play with and
    I'm still here. Guess I'll go look at the Windows groups now too...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Friday, March 13, 2026 21:32:14
    On 3/13/26 1:43 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    I said that PhoNews was working OK on my Samsung Android 16 tablet. I
    lied. I made a reply to this post that it said that it transmitted but
    it didn't. Then a new problem popped up. It no longer saw all the
    newsgroups. So I've given up on it. My solution? I got a new toy of
    course. This AWOW Windows 11 tablet I'm (I hope) posting with. Its the
    first tablet I've owned that gets warm and has a fan. In fact during its
    startup updates it got almost too hot to touch. And battery life is
    dismal. So far not impressed but hey it's something new to play with and
    I'm still here. Guess I'll go look at the Windows groups now too...

    Interesting that PhoNews bailed out on you after all. Bummer.

    Well, that's apparently for Android 16 (so far). I'll do this PhoNews post
    on a Chromebook on which it has worked in the past. I'm not sure what
    version of Android the Chromebook imitates but if you're curious PhoNews
    should tell you what it thinks it is in the headers.

    Another problem with PhoNews is that it's difficult to crosspost. Extra
    newsgroups must be typed in manually even when answering a crossposted
    post. A PITA but then I'm sure some would perhaps call it a feature...

    A tablet with a fan. Wow. Lots of laptops don't even have fans.
    "These chips are efficient, but they still produce more heat than
    ARM chips found in iPads or Android tablets. To prevent overheating,
    the device includes a small internal cooling fan, a heat sink
    connected to the CPU, and air vents for airflow."

    I had never heard of that tablet so I looked it up. Apparently "the AWOW >Windows 11 tablet is a budget-friendly 10.1-inch 2-in-1 device that >functions as both a tablet and a mini laptop, typically bundled with a >detachable keyboard and running full Windows 11".
    12GB RAM and 256GB SSD
    Intel N150 or N100 low-power CPU
    Intel UHD integrated graphics
    10.1" in-cell touchscreen, 1920px resolution
    WiFi 6, Bluetooth 5.0, USB-C, HDMI
    8MP rear + 5MP front
    36W PD fast charging
    Windows 11 Home

    Yup. That's my new toy.

    I set up Windows 11 recently for a school kid on a new desktop where I was >able to easily circumvent the MSA requirement if you're interested in that.

    Thanks but no thanks. I did use my fake name/email to sign in though. I'll
    let you in a the secret, the initials are AJL... ;)

    Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
    Subject: PSA: I can happily report that my first Win11 Home installed sans a MSA
    Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:24:16 -0500
    Message-ID: <10k3l9g$2ug$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Privacy is what you bake into the device from the moment you turn it on.

    Not me. I figure my life is pretty much already in the sky and unless you
    live in a cave so is yours. But we've have hashed that out on several
    occasions before so no need for a repeat....is there?? 8-O



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From AJL@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 14, 2026 06:06:20
    On 3/13/26 9:01 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    AJL wrote:
    Interesting that PhoNews bailed out on you after all. Bummer.

    Well, that's apparently for Android 16 (so far). I'll do this PhoNews post >> on a Chromebook on which it has worked in the past. I'm not sure what
    version of Android the Chromebook imitates but if you're curious PhoNews
    should tell you what it thinks it is in the headers.


    Your header shows
    "User-Agent: PhoNews/3.13.3 (Android/13)"
    Hey. That's the same as mine! :) (jk)

    Ok, I'll make this post with my Topsand 8" tablet which uses Android 14.
    Let's see if PhoNews reports it as such. PhoNews still seems normal on this
    toy (so far, crosses fingers).


    Another problem with PhoNews is that it's difficult to crosspost. Extra
    newsgroups must be typed in manually even when answering a crossposted
    post. A PITA but then I'm sure some would perhaps call it a feature...

    Actually, my 'newsreader' is similarly afflicted. It doesn't automatically >inherit ngs, so I have sometimes made typos when I typed the newsgroups.

    12GB RAM and 256GB SSD
    Intel N150 or N100 low-power CPU
    Windows 11 Home

    Yup. That's my new toy.


    Nice. I can't use "small stuff" anymore, due to my declining eyesight.

    Sorry to hear that. Here a strong pair of reading glasses keeps me in the
    tablet business (so far...crosses fingers #2).


    My monitor is a Sharpe LC45GD7U which is about a hundred pounds as it's old >tech, but being a "45-inch" monitor, my Android is mirrored two feet tall!

    Actually it's 22 inches tall (not 24). And 39 inches wide.
    With the phone being 22 inches tall I can finally see all the buttons.


    I set up Windows 11 recently for a school kid on a new desktop where I was >>>able to easily circumvent the MSA requirement if you're interested in that. >>
    Thanks but no thanks. I did use my fake name/email to sign in though. I'll >> let you in a the secret, the initials are AJL... ;)

    I completely understand why most people do exactly what they're told to do.

    I'd never do well in the military as I'm always doing what I think needs to >be done, so I don't do what Microsoft or Apple or Google tell me to do.


    I see no advantage, to the user, of creating any account on the device. >None.

    Do you?

    Gives me access to the software stores (where I bought this PhoNews
    newsreader among other stuff), to online storage (2-one paid one free), to
    non-sensitive password storage with auto app entry, auto bookmark restore
    (close to 100 in my case) on new devices, email, calendar with my entries
    and appointment reminders, and probably lots more stuff that I can't think
    of right now.


    Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
    Subject: PSA: I can happily report that my first Win11 Home installed sans a MSA
    Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:24:16 -0500
    Message-ID: <10k3l9g$2ug$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Privacy is what you bake into the device from the moment you turn it on.

    Not me. I figure my life is pretty much already in the sky and unless you
    live in a cave so is yours. But we've have hashed that out on several
    occasions before so no need for a repeat....is there?? 8-O

    Agreed. Once you own a home in the USA, and once you vote in the USA, and >once you go to college (and get student loans) in the USA, and once you
    open a SSN in the USA and a bank account, you're on the blackboard forever.

    Still, I just want to make a point that only Apple forces the mothership >account, and the biggest threat to privacy, bar none, is that account.

    Glad you have a new toy to work with. I hope you put it to a lot of good >use.


    There's the Windows newsgroups if you need to ask any questions.
    alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Thanks. I've been there before. I've had lots of Windows toys over the
    years. I usually can't stay away from Windows for more than a month or so,
    but I try. I give the old toys I get tired of to a grandkid (I'm up to 47
    now, grands and greats, so it's not hard to find one) so it's a win-win...


    Andy and Carlos are frequent posters. As am I.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)