In a new phone (Android 16), there is a setting:

Hotspot 2.0 (enabled)
Automatically connect to Hotspot 2.0 Wi-Fi networks.

I don't think I want this as I wouldn't know anything about the
operators of the hotspots. I prefer to find what wi-fi networks are
available when I visit someplace, and choose which one to use that I
decide is probably trustworthy. Seems I should disable this setting.

I do want automatic connect to my wifi cable modem, but not to other
networks that may be available wherever I happen to be.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:

In a new phone (Android 16), there is a setting:

Hotspot 2.0 (enabled)
Automatically connect to Hotspot 2.0 Wi-Fi networks.

I don't think I want this as I wouldn't know anything about the
operators of the hotspots. I prefer to find what wi-fi networks are available when I visit someplace, and choose which one to use that I
decide is probably trustworthy. Seems I should disable this setting.

In theory, this is a more seamless and secure way to connect to access
points than either having them open (and thus unencrypted) or having a publically-shared wifi password you might have to ask someone to obtain.

I've used Eduroam which is a similar idea and I've had it 'just work' and
give me connectivity while waiting for a tram in Zagreb, as it got a sniff
of signal from an Eduroam access point across the street.

If you're using TLS for everything there's a limit to what they can do. If you're using DoH (Android's 'private DNS' setting) then they can't see or
forge your DNS which takes out one way to profile you. They can see the IPs you connect to but there's not a lot they can get from that. If you are worried about profiling, connect using a VPN.

I do want automatic connect to my wifi cable modem, but not to other
networks that may be available wherever I happen to be.

I don't think this is as big a risk as you make it out to be.
I think more of a risk is auto-connecting to networks that are broken, and
stop your phone falling back to cellular.

Theo

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:

In a new phone (Android 16), there is a setting:

Hotspot 2.0 (enabled)
Automatically connect to Hotspot 2.0 Wi-Fi networks.

I don't think I want this as I wouldn't know anything about the
operators of the hotspots. I prefer to find what wi-fi networks are
available when I visit someplace, and choose which one to use that I
decide is probably trustworthy. Seems I should disable this setting.

In theory, this is a more seamless and secure way to connect to access
points than either having them open (and thus unencrypted) or having
a publically-shared wifi password you might have to ask someone to
obtain.

I've used Eduroam which is a similar idea and I've had it 'just work'
and give me connectivity while waiting for a tram in Zagreb, as it
got a sniff of signal from an Eduroam access point across the street.

If you're using TLS for everything there's a limit to what they can
do. If you're using DoH (Android's 'private DNS' setting) then they
can't see or forge your DNS which takes out one way to profile you.
They can see the IPs you connect to but there's not a lot they can
get from that. If you are worried about profiling, connect using a
VPN.

I did enable Android's private DNS. However, the automatic setting
means to use DoH via port 443/HTTPS if the nameserver supports it; else, fallback to port 53/DNS for lookups in the clear. So, you can't be sure
how you're connecting to the DNS server unless you first test, like
visit 1.1.1.1/help, but who want to keep testing before surfing.
Instead, for Android's private DNS setting, I specified a secure server (one.one.one.one) to make sure I'm actually using DoH/DoT.

I do want automatic connect to my wifi cable modem, but not to other
networks that may be available wherever I happen to be.

I don't think this is as big a risk as you make it out to be. I think
more of a risk is auto-connecting to networks that are broken, and
stop your phone falling back to cellular.

I'll have to read up on Hotspot 2.0. As for wifi hotspots, I do not automatically connect to any of them except for the SSID for my home
cable modem, and that's locked with a long strong password.

Does Hotspot 2.0 somehow prevent wifi spoofing where some joker uses a
SSID that matches a trusted one, like he sits at a Startbucks
broadcasting their public (open) SSID, so you don't end up connecting to
a hacker's wifi hotspot?

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:

In a new phone (Android 16), there is a setting:

Hotspot 2.0 (enabled)
Automatically connect to Hotspot 2.0 Wi-Fi networks.

I don't think I want this as I wouldn't know anything about the
operators of the hotspots. I prefer to find what wi-fi networks are
available when I visit someplace, and choose which one to use that I
decide is probably trustworthy. Seems I should disable this setting.

In theory, this is a more seamless and secure way to connect to access
points than either having them open (and thus unencrypted) or having
a publically-shared wifi password you might have to ask someone to
obtain.

I've used Eduroam which is a similar idea and I've had it 'just work'
and give me connectivity while waiting for a tram in Zagreb, as it
got a sniff of signal from an Eduroam access point across the street.

If you're using TLS for everything there's a limit to what they can
do. If you're using DoH (Android's 'private DNS' setting) then they
can't see or forge your DNS which takes out one way to profile you.
They can see the IPs you connect to but there's not a lot they can
get from that. If you are worried about profiling, connect using a
VPN.

I did enable Android's private DNS. However, the automatic setting
means to use DoH via port 443/HTTPS if the nameserver supports it; else, fallback to port 53/DNS for lookups in the clear. So, you can't be sure
how you're connecting to the DNS server unless you first test, like
visit 1.1.1.1/help, but who want to keep testing before surfing.
Instead, for Android's private DNS setting, I specified a secure server (one.one.one.one) to make sure I'm actually using DoH/DoT.

I do want automatic connect to my wifi cable modem, but not to other
networks that may be available wherever I happen to be.

I don't think this is as big a risk as you make it out to be. I think
more of a risk is auto-connecting to networks that are broken, and
stop your phone falling back to cellular.

I'll have to read up on Hotspot 2.0. As for wifi hotspots, I do not automatically connect to any of them except for the SSID for my home
cable modem, and that's locked with a long strong password.

Does Hotspot 2.0 somehow prevent wifi spoofing where some joker uses a
SSID that matches a trusted one, like he sits at a Startbucks
broadcasting their public (open) SSID, so you don't end up connecting to
a hacker's wifi hotspot?

Okay, did a little more research, but not sure I want to waste more time
with in-depth research. I'd rather have the Hotspot 2.0 feature find
those supposedly secure wifi hotspots, but prompt me about finding them
to let me choose instead of auto-connect to them.

https://www.purple.ai/blogs/hotspot-2-0

I see mention of end-to-end encryption, but in-transit encryption is not
the same as in-situ encryption. You might use HTTPS to connect to a
site, but not always as some sites still don't get the certs for HTTPS,
and don't consider the need to prove they are the intended site a user
wants to visit, but it's possible some sensitive info could be exposed
in the network traffic after connecting to a spoofed wifi hotspot.

Other than encrypting the in-transit traffic between endpoint to a
Hotspot 2.0 hotspot, how does a Hotspot 2.0 guarantee you connect to a
legit wifi hotspot?

The above article mentions authentication, but not what it is. Not sure authentication is even mandatory for Hotspot 2.0, or if it means the
client authenticating to the hotspot, or the server authenticating its
identity to the client.

https://www.wwt.com/blog/demystifying-hotspot-20-passpoint-and-openroaming-the-pros-and-cons
"This can be achieved using several highly secure enterprise-grade authentication methods, with a focus on certificate-based authentication
on both the server and client sides."

A Hotspot 2.0 wifi hotspot cannot be setup and active without the use of certificates?

https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/wifi-passpoint

The presumption is the phone trying to use Hotspot 2.0 will fail,
reject, or ignore a connection to a Hotspot 2.0 wifi hotspot that is
missing a certificate, or is invalid, or has expired.

I've also read that part of the authentication process uses the SIM card
in the phone. That's akin to using the SIM card to authenticate you to
a cell tower that carries your cellular provider. That's on the client
end. Seems the auth at the wifi hotspot is a certificate. The use of
the SIM card hints that Hotspot 2.0 wifi hotspots are negotiated with
the mobile carriers with hotspot providers to allow roaming wifi
hotspots. There could be a cost with the mobile provider for roaming
access.

https://www.howtogeek.com/284292/what-are-hotspot-2.0-networks/
Network Providers Can Band Together

Considering all the setup, expenses, and expertise involved in
establishing Hotspot 2.0 wifi hotspots, just how pervasive are these
types of wifi hotspots? For example, I'm a Comcast customer, and they
have all those "xfinitywifi" wifi hotspots. Do they use Hotspot 2.0 to
allow auto-connect to them? Long ago, I used their app to define a
secure profile that allowed me to use their secured hotspots. The app
defined a secure profile that was used with their authentication server
to grant me access to their hotspot. That was the means to authenticate
you to them, and they to you. But you needed their app, not a phone
supporting some protocol (Hotspot 2.0) for free-range wifi hotspots.

I can find websites with maps of wifi hotspots, but they don't identify
which are Hotspot 2.0 types. When planning a trip, how do you know
where the Hotspot 2.0 wifi hotspots will be? Just accidentally when
you're within reach of one?

Doesn't seem to be the simplified choice you purport it to be.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)