When I conduct Electrical Engineering, I am 'creationisming', this encapsulates all the ingenious invention that goes into my work. When I
go out and garden, I am 'earthrapturing' the vegetables. It's cooler
this way.

--
It turns a basic desk job into international espionage just because you
wear a hoodie and stare at a black screen.

It makes typing print("hello") sound like you are casting an ancient
spell that bends the fabric of reality.

It shrinks three days of tearing your hair out over a broken database
into a cute little activity you tell your grandparents you do for fun.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026-09-17, Lane W wrote:

When I conduct Electrical Engineering, I am 'creationisming', this encapsulates all the ingenious invention that goes into my work. When
I go out and garden, I am 'earthrapturing' the vegetables. It's cooler
this way.

Wait until you hear about the ways in which the term "computer science"
is used to mean stuff other than the study of computation :-)

--
Nuno Silva

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted:

Wait until you hear about the ways in which the term "computer science"
is used to mean stuff other than the study of computation :-)

Hal Abelson writes:

|"Computer science" is a terrible name for this business.
|First of all, it's not a science. It might be engineering or
|it might be art, but we'll actually see that computer
|so-called science actually has a lot in common with magic . . .

I agree and disagree, in that actual real computer science is a branch
of discrete mathematics. It's not a science, it's math. But calling
it "computer math" would be even more wrong.

I do think "Informatics" is probably a better word and that isn't quite
right either.

But yes, most of what is called "CS" has nothing to do with actual CS
at all... but sometimes people get CS degrees that are based mostly on
actual CS.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Stefan Ram <ram@Zedat.FU-Berlin.De> schrieb: |------------------------------------------------------------------------| |"Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted: | |>Wait until you hear about the ways in which the term "computer science"|

is used to mean stuff other than the study of computation :-)" | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Persons profess about computer science without knowing about what they
profess about computer science.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------| |"|"Computer science" is a terrible name for this business. | ||First of all, it's not a science." | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Computer science is a science. Cf. Definitions 1 ("Knowledge.") and 3
("Art [. . .]") of science in Samuel Johnson, "A
DICTIONARY
OF THE
ENGLISH LANGUAGE:
IN WHICH
THE WORDS ARE DEDUCED FROM THEIR ORIGINALS,
AND ILLUSTRATED IN THEIR DIFFERENT SIGNIFICATIONS BY EXAMPLES FROM THE
BEST WRITERS,
TO WHICH ARE PREFIXED,
A HISTORY OF THE LANGUAGE,
AND
AN ENGLISH GRAMMAR.", THE SIXTH EDITION,
M.DCC.LXXXV (apparently 1785, though that author was supposedly
already dead by then), HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/Englischunterricht/Samuel_Johnson/SCIENCE_defined_by_Samuel_Johnson.pdf

|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|" It might be engineering" | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

A dictionary defines engineering in terms of science.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|" or |
||it might be art," | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

A science is an art.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|" but we'll actually see that computer | ||so-called science actually has a lot in common with magic . . . |
|[. . .] |
|Hal Abelson" | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Johnson (M.DCC.LXXXV) defines a magician as
?One
?killed [. . .]?
and
a ?kill as
"knowledge".

HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/Englischunterricht/Samuel_Johnson/MAGICIAN.PDF HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/Englischunterricht/Samuel_Johnson/SKILL.PDF

(S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 01:24:11 -0000 (UTC), C¢il¡n Niocl s¡n Glost‚ir
wrote:

Persons profess about computer science without knowing about what
they profess about computer science.

For most of the last half-millennium, the entirety of the structure of
science has rested on two fundamental pillars: physics and
mathematics. You couldn?t really make much sense out of the rest of
science without something of these two seeping in. And of course
physics itself has been heavily mathematical since its early days.

In the last century, a third pillar has been added: computing. That,
too, has now become fundamental to the operations of all the other
sciences. And that includes physics and mathematics as well.

But then, there is another thread that runs through all of science,
and that is art. Many people see science and art as somehow opposites,
and assume that those who appreciate one cannot appreciate the other.
But really, they are complementary ways of understanding reality, and
are at heart inseparable from each other, as the late, great polymath, physicist, biologist, poet, literary critic Jacob Bronowski well
understood.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFgnGUL78MU>

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

C¢il¡n Niocl s¡n Glost‚ir wrote:

Stefan Ram <ram@Zedat.FU-Berlin.De> schrieb: |------------------------------------------------------------------------| |"Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted: | |>Wait until you hear about the ways in which the term "computer science"| |>is used to mean stuff other than the study of computation :-)" | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Persons profess about computer science without knowing about what they profess about computer science.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------| |"|"Computer science" is a terrible name for this business. | ||First of all, it's not a science." | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Computer science is a science. Cf. Definitions 1 ("Knowledge.") and 3
("Art [. . .]") of science in Samuel Johnson, "A
DICTIONARY
OF THE
ENGLISH LANGUAGE:
IN WHICH
THE WORDS ARE DEDUCED FROM THEIR ORIGINALS,
AND ILLUSTRATED IN THEIR DIFFERENT SIGNIFICATIONS BY EXAMPLES FROM THE
BEST WRITERS,
TO WHICH ARE PREFIXED,
A HISTORY OF THE LANGUAGE,
AND
AN ENGLISH GRAMMAR.", THE SIXTH EDITION,
M.DCC.LXXXV (apparently 1785, though that author was supposedly
already dead by then), HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/Englischunterricht/Samuel_Johnson/SCIENCE_defined_by_Samuel_Johnson.pdf

|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|" It might be engineering" | |------------------------------------------------------------------------|

A dictionary defines engineering in terms of science.

Hardly. You forgot math, which is to be expected of a computer
scientist. You guys skipped most basic math, did a few combinations and permutations then called yourselves mathematicians.

Engineering is the practical application of science and mathematics to
design, build, and improve structures, machines, systems, and processes
that solve human problems.

According to sources like Merriam-Webster and Wikipedia, engineering
bridges the gap between scientific discovery and practical use.

Now, if you want to quit being patronizing and discuss some probability
I will engage you. In all other cases, return to 3rd grade remedial math
and open your textbook, begin reading, et al.

--
Everything I fight for leaves a bitter taste
Everything I cry for laughs into my face
Everything I scream for barely knows my name
Everything I'd die for will die just the same

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 01:24:11 -0000 (UTC), C¢il¡n Niocl s¡n Glost‚ir
wrote:

Persons profess about computer science without knowing about what
they profess about computer science.

For most of the last half-millennium, the entirety of the structure of science has rested on two fundamental pillars: physics and
mathematics. You couldn?t really make much sense out of the rest of
science without something of these two seeping in. And of course
physics itself has been heavily mathematical since its early days.

In the last century, a third pillar has been added: computing. That,
too, has now become fundamental to the operations of all the other
sciences. And that includes physics and mathematics as well.

Notice no mention of medieval torture devices, The Cell, et al.

Gosh you guys are innocents!

--
Everything I fight for leaves a bitter taste
Everything I cry for laughs into my face
Everything I scream for barely knows my name
Everything I'd die for will die just the same

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hardly. You forgot math, which is to be expected of a computer
scientist. You guys skipped most basic math, did a few combinations and >permutations then called yourselves mathematicians.

Dunno. I did a CS degree and had to take two years of continuous math
(through ordinary differential equations), graph theory, combinatorics, and then a year of theory of computation which was 90% proofs. And a statistics class, which you might argue isn't math. And I was in a program that came
out of an engineering department; CS programs that came out of math
departments had a different fundamental curriculum and often more discrete math.

I didn't have to take any higher algebra or number theory classes, though, which might have benefitted me.

This is more or less typical for programs using the ACM curriculum (although the ACM curriculum doesn't require anywhere near as much continuous math).

Engineering is the practical application of science and mathematics to >design, build, and improve structures, machines, systems, and processes
that solve human problems.

Yes, that seems a fair definition.

According to sources like Merriam-Webster and Wikipedia, engineering
bridges the gap between scientific discovery and practical use.

Yes.
The optimist sees an glass half-full
The pessimist sees a glass half-empty
The engineer sees a 50% safety margin against overflow.

I will say that the way math is taught in engineering programs is completely different than the way it's taught in math programs. My freshman calculus classes were all about being able to do derivatives and integrals as quickly
as possible in closed form... there were no proofs and few explanations,
just memorization of methods, and as many methods as possible given the time allowed. When I went to EE grad school I was glad of this but it was not pleasant to learn.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Yes.
The optimist sees an glass half-full
The pessimist sees a glass half-empty
The engineer sees a 50% safety margin against overflow.

Or, the container is twice as big as it needs to be.

I will say that the way math is taught in engineering programs is completely different than the way it's taught in math programs. My freshman calculus classes were all about being able to do derivatives and integrals as quickly as possible in closed form... there were no proofs and few explanations,
just memorization of methods, and as many methods as possible given the time allowed. When I went to EE grad school I was glad of this but it was not pleasant to learn.

Yes, it was completely different from that for me in grad school. Not at
all memorization, class, day after day was long proofs of stochastic principles scrawling across three chalkboards.

What I'm facing right now is a growing pile of projects that are
mathematical modeling of program input, queries, and manipulations.

The problem is that there are time caps. From what I can tell, it is prohibitive often of explicit modeling of the operation in an array or whatever. For example, if the operations of a sort are to be conveyed,
it will be too time consuming to store the array, sort the array
according to the apropos sort (be it insertion or adjacency sort), and annotate it while that sort is taking place.

If the meat is cut out, the explicit internal sorting of the array, I
believe it will be sufficiently expedient.

Whatever you can say, actually moving those elements around is probably
a big waste of time, because that's not what the program needs to do. It
only needs to list the positions that are moved. This extends to a great number of projects in my back load.

Put simply,

When an input string of parentheses becomes so massive that the raw read/ingestion time of the string itself is the primary bottleneck, traditional linear algorithms (like a sequential single-threaded stack)
hit a wall. If your data is gigabytes or terabytes long, a single CPU
core reading character-by-character cannot scale.ÿTo manipulate and
validate parenthesis strings when the input size is the limiting factor, computer scientists shift away from simple stacks toward architecture
built for parallelism, SIMD acceleration, hardware-native streaming, and algebraic properties.ÿ1. Parallel and MapReduce Processing (The Monoid Approach)To process massive inputs across multiple CPU cores or
distributed machines, you cannot use a normal stack because a stack
requires knowing everything that came before it. Instead, the problem is treated as an algebraic monoid.ÿHacker NewsThe Concept: Any chunk of parentheses can be reduced down to a simple pair of numbers: (unmatched_closed, unmatched_open). For example, the slice )))()(((
reduces to (2, 3) because the inner () cancels out, leaving 2 unmatched closers and 3 unmatched openers.ÿWhy it works for huge data: This
reduction operation is associative. You can split a 10-gigabyte file
into 100 separate 100-megabyte chunks. 100 different threads or machines
can scan their chunks entirely independently in parallel.ÿThe Merge
step: Once each thread computes its local (closed, open) pair, a master
thread merges those pairs using a simple formula:\[\text{Merged\ unmatched\_closed}=c_{1}+\max (0,c_{2}-o_{1})\]\[\text{Merged\ unmatched\_open}=o_{2}+\max (0,o_{1}-c_{2})\]Because the merge step
takes \(O(1)\) constant time, the overall runtime scales strictly with
how fast your hardware can split and stream the raw bytes in
parallel.ÿ2. SIMD Acceleration (Vectorization)When a single machine
needs to parse data at the absolute limit of memory bandwidth (e.g.,
dozens of gigabytes per second), it uses SIMD (Single Instruction,
Multiple Data) instructions supported by modern CPUs (like Intel's
AVX-512 or ARM's Neon).ÿHow it beats the bottleneck: Instead of a loop inspecting one byte at a time, SIMD registers can load 32 or 64
characters at once into a single vector pipeline.ÿThe Bitmask Trick: The
CPU executes a vector comparison to instantly create a bitmask of where
the ( and ) are. Using population count (popcount) and bitwise shifts,
the hardware computes the prefix sums of the nested depths for 64
characters simultaneously in a fraction of a CPU cycle. This technique bypasses traditional branch instructions entirely, preventing CPU branch mispredictions?which are usually a massive penalty when parsing random
data streams.ÿ3. Tree-Structured Parentheses Manipulation (Finger Trees
& Rope Data Structures)If the goal is not just checking if they match,
but actively manipulating them (e.g., cutting a 1 GB chunk out of the
middle, pasting it elsewhere, and checking if it's still valid),
re-scanning the string would be disastrous.ÿRopes / 2-3 Finger Trees:
Rather than a flat array or string, the parenthesis sequence is stored
as a balanced tree where the leaf nodes contain segments of the
text.Augmented Metadata: Each internal node in the tree stores the
aggregated (unmatched_closed, unmatched_open) monoid value of its
children.The Payoff: If you insert or delete text, you only need to
update the nodes along the path from the leaf to the root (\(O(\log N)\) time). The tree instantly recalculates whether the entire multi-gigabyte document remains balanced without ever touching 99.9% of the actual characters.ÿ4. Hardware-Level Streaming (Memory-Mapped Files &
Zero-Copy)When input size is the limiting factor, standard I/O overhead (copying data from the hard drive to kernel space, then to user space,
then parsing it) will kill performance before an algorithm even
starts.ÿMemory-Mapped Files (mmap): The system maps the massive file
directly into the process?s virtual memory space. The OS pages the data directly from the disk cache straight into the CPU caches as
needed.Zero-Copy Parsing: The algorithms operate directly on the
byte-stream pointer provided by mmap. No strings are allocated, no sub-segments are copied, and no memory overhead is spent. The
performance curve aligns perfectly with the physical sequential read
speed of the underlying NVMe SSD or network storage.
--
Everything I fight for leaves a bitter taste
Everything I cry for laughs into my face
Everything I scream for barely knows my name
Everything I'd die for will die just the same

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)