https://helium.computer/

--
Linux Mint 22.2


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 23:42:24 +1100, Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

--
s|b

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

s|b wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 23:42:24 +1100, Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no adware,
no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

--
Linux Mint 22.2


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 23:42:24 +1100, Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no adware,
no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Monsieur wrote:

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no
adware, no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

If you are going to build a browser, it HAS TO have a layout engine; you
don't want to start w/ a hammer and chisel. The open source chromium's
engine is actually blink, off webkit a long time ago.

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should extend to everything opensource that google has ever contributed.


--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should
extend to everything opensource that google has ever contributed.

I found a big discussion of this issue:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45366867

Sorry, pass...

Even with un-googled Chromium I do not think these statements are self-consistent. We need browsers that do not allow Google to
control the ecosystem.

... 'these statements' are chromium and privacy related.

It is a very complicated browser generalities discussion.

Way down in the discussion the source of the above remark after
characterizing 3 different choices says that all 3 choices suck.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45369826

--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

Monsieur wrote:

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no
adware, no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

If you are going to build a browser, it HAS TO have a layout engine; you don't want to start w/ a hammer and chisel. The open source chromium's engine is actually blink, off webkit a long time ago.

There are already quite a few Chromium-based browsers (I've lost count),
and they all are (or claim to be) privacy-friendly, secure, etc etc. Do
we really need another one? How about building another Gecko-based
browser, just to balance things out a bit? Or help build a really new
one, like Ladybird? Building yet another browser on top of the already dominant Chromium certainly isn't going to strengthen the much needed competition in this domain.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

Mike Easter wrote:

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should
extend to everything opensource that google has ever contributed.

I found a big discussion of this issue:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45366867

Sorry, pass...

Even with un-googled Chromium I do not think these statements are
self-consistent. We need browsers that do not allow Google to
control the ecosystem.

... 'these statements' are chromium and privacy related.

It is a very complicated browser generalities discussion.

Way down in the discussion the source of the above remark after characterizing 3 different choices says that all 3 choices suck.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45369826

Interesting reads, thanks for the links.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 30/11/2025 18:55, Mike Easter wrote:

Monsieur wrote:

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no
adware, no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

If you are going to build a browser, it HAS TO have a layout engine; you don't want to start w/ a hammer and chisel. The open source chromium's
engine is actually blink, off webkit a long time ago.

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should extend to everything opensource that google has ever contributed.

The problem is that the complexity of modern programs/apps/OSs is beyond
the understanding of any individual. I see that Chromium has over 36
million lines of code; how can anyone know what all that code does?
Google maintains Chromium, and according to the Chromium blog (<https://blog.chromium.org/2025/01/announcing-supporters-of-chromium-based.html>):
"In 2024, Google made over 100,000 commits to Chromium, accounting for
~94 percent of contributions."

If the ~94% holds true for chromium since it appeared in 2008, that
would mean about 34 million lines of code came from Google. What does it
all do? Has anyone gone through it all in the same way that GrapheneOS
has done with Android?

And, as far as I know, the only extensions you can get for any
Chromium-based browser come from the Chrome web store - not even a
"Chromium web store"! That is an even worse position than Android, as
you can get apps from F-Droid and others.

--
Jeff

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In aus.computers Monsieur <Monsieur@notreal.invalid> wrote:

There are already quite a few Chromium-based browsers (I've lost count),
and they all are (or claim to be) privacy-friendly, secure, etc etc. Do
we really need another one? How about building another Gecko-based
browser, just to balance things out a bit?

Sometimes I think that would be interesting, but as with the
Chrome-based browsers it's only an outer wrapping because the core
of the browser is too complex to penetrate. I might as well try to
tame the original product via about:config customisations and
extensions rather than assume someone else has done the work for
me when in reality they've probably just stuffed other things up
or snuck extra nasties in.

Anyway there are are enough Gecko derivatives too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Web_browsers_based_on_Firefox

The one that seems to have really dived into the inner workings to
a worthwhile level is Pale Moon. But the consequence of that is
they can't keep up with requirements from new websites designed for
later Firefox versions than the one they forked from:

"The future for broad web compatibility in a generic web browser is
uncertain as the big players (specifically Google) continue to grow
the behemoth of web specifications with unnecessary fluff that go
far, far beyond what would be required for sane web development;
with the continued focus on "client computing" for Web 3.0 and
beyond, UXP and Pale Moon's focus may ultimately become much more
specialized for specific environments as opposed to the
commercialized web."
https://www.palemoon.org/history.shtml

Or help build a really new one, like Ladybird?

That's the most interesting new contender. But when I built the
source code a couple of years ago (which wasn't easy) it was a lot
further off being usable than the articles about it at the time
implied. Maybe in some specific technical metrics it's a contender
on its way, but for general use existing independent browser engines
like Netsurf and Dillo work way better with a fraction of the size
and system requirements for Ladybird.

Personally I use Dillo for most of my web browsing, but so many
sites started blocking it as a "bot" this year that the web that's
open to me seems to be shrinking by the day. Some have started
blocking me as a "bot" in Firefox too, even with NoScript disabled.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sun, 11/30/2025 4:11 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 30/11/2025 18:55, Mike Easter wrote:

Monsieur wrote:

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no
adware, no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

If you are going to build a browser, it HAS TO have a layout engine; you
don't want to start w/ a hammer and chisel. The open source chromium's
engine is actually blink, off webkit a long time ago.

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should extend to
everything opensource that google has ever contributed.

The problem is that the complexity of modern programs/apps/OSs is beyond the understanding of any individual. I see that Chromium has over 36 million lines of code; how can anyone know what all that code does? Google maintains Chromium, and according to the Chromium blog (<https://blog.chromium.org/2025/01/announcing-supporters-of-chromium-based.html>):
"In 2024, Google made over 100,000 commits to Chromium, accounting for ~94 percent of contributions."

If the ~94% holds true for chromium since it appeared in 2008, that would mean about 34 million lines of code came from Google. What does it all do? Has anyone gone through it all in the same way that GrapheneOS has done with Android?

And, as far as I know, the only extensions you can get for any Chromium-based browser come from the Chrome web store - not even a "Chromium web store"! That is an even worse position than Android, as you can get apps from F-Droid and others.

The LLM-AI have read the code.

And that could speed up your analysis.

With the usual caveats on dimensional limits and stupidity and so on :-)

I was surprised, when I asked it some questions about the
Thunderbird tree and it knew the answers. Like, where in
the tree the code for this or that was stored.

Paul

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Monsieur wrote:

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 23:42:24 +1100, Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no
adware, no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

I posted to inform not to recommend

--
Linux Mint 22.2


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

Mike Easter wrote:

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should
extend to everything opensource that google has ever contributed.

I found a big discussion of this issue:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45366867

Sorry, pass...

Even with un-googled Chromium I do not think these statements are
self-consistent. We need browsers that do not allow Google to
control the ecosystem.

... 'these statements' are chromium and privacy related.

It is a very complicated browser generalities discussion.

Way down in the discussion the source of the above remark after characterizing 3 different choices says that all 3 choices suck.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45369826

I use Firefox and Brave

--
Linux Mint 22.2


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Petzl wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:39:05 +0100, Monsieur
<Monsieur@notreal.invalid> wrote:

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 23:42:24 +1100, Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no adware,
no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

?
So Google need to be fed, and their users are the food?
Anything free normally starts becoming unreliable and inevitably dies.

Firefox hasn't. Brave hasn't. it depends on whether they have support
via a customer base and developers/contributors

There's always a new broom coming out, until they work out how to get revenue, they seemed doomed to failure.

What price do you pay, what you recommend?

--
Linux Mint 22.2


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/12/2025 7:11 am, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 30/11/2025 18:55, Mike Easter wrote:

Monsieur wrote:

Felix wrote:

s|b wrote:

Felix wrote:

https://helium.computer/

Why exactly is it kewl?

It's fast, best privacy and unbiased ad-blocking by default, no
adware, no bloat, no noise, fully open source, very clean look, etc.,

But still uses Chromium, so no thank you.

If you are going to build a browser, it HAS TO have a layout engine; you
don't want to start w/ a hammer and chisel. The open source chromium's
engine is actually blink, off webkit a long time ago.

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should extend to
everything opensource that google has ever contributed.

The problem is that the complexity of modern programs/apps/OSs is beyond
the understanding of any individual. I see that Chromium has over 36
million lines of code; how can anyone know what all that code does?
Google maintains Chromium, and according to the Chromium blog (<https:// blog.chromium.org/2025/01/announcing-supporters-of-chromium-based.html>):
"In 2024, Google made over 100,000 commits to Chromium, accounting for
~94 percent of contributions."

If the ~94% holds true for chromium since it appeared in 2008, that
would mean about 34 million lines of code came from Google. What does it
all do? Has anyone gone through it all in the same way that GrapheneOS
has done with Android?

Isn't that a thing with open source anyway? Not everything is generated
by some enthusiast banging away in his or her spare time, but by people employed by large companies who make use of FOSS stuff and contribute
back to it.

And, as far as I know, the only extensions you can get for any Chromium- based browser come from the Chrome web store - not even a "Chromium web store"! That is an even worse position than Android, as you can get apps from F-Droid and others.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 11:27:07 +1100, Felix wrote:

I posted to inform not to recommend

I was also under the impression you used this browser yourself. It
happens when the only thing you post is just a URL.

--
s|b

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

s|b wrote:

On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 11:27:07 +1100, Felix wrote:

I posted to inform not to recommend

I was also under the impression you used this browser yourself. It
happens when the only thing you post is just a URL.

nope. just read about it in a news feed. thought it was a new thing

--
Linux Mint 22.2
Linux Mint; One small step for man, one huge leap for mankind


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In aus.computers keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote:

On 1/12/2025 7:11 am, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 30/11/2025 18:55, Mike Easter wrote:

If you are 'politically' anti-google, I'm not sure that should extend to >>> everything opensource that google has ever contributed.

The problem is that the complexity of modern programs/apps/OSs is beyond
the understanding of any individual. I see that Chromium has over 36
million lines of code; how can anyone know what all that code does?
Google maintains Chromium, and according to the Chromium blog (<https://
blog.chromium.org/2025/01/announcing-supporters-of-chromium-based.html>):
"In 2024, Google made over 100,000 commits to Chromium, accounting for
~94 percent of contributions."

If the ~94% holds true for chromium since it appeared in 2008, that
would mean about 34 million lines of code came from Google. What does it
all do? Has anyone gone through it all in the same way that GrapheneOS
has done with Android?

Isn't that a thing with open source anyway? Not everything is generated
by some enthusiast banging away in his or her spare time, but by people employed by large companies who make use of FOSS stuff and contribute
back to it.

I think plenty of those large companies expect to make money off it
too, and I can't imagine anyone thinks Google develop Chrome just
for their own use. Unlike eg. IBM/Red Hat working on Linux software
used in the distro they sell, or Intel contributing code to make the
Linux kernel work better with their CPUs/GPUs, the reward is less
direct with Google and Chrome. It's simply to give them control over
how the Web works, which is obviously a huge competitive advantage
for a Web company. It's also why I don't want to help cede that
control to them by using their browser or any of its derivatives
such as this one.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)