The other day I was unable to log in to one of my financial accounts. Took several days to work out what the problem was, but now it seems that my computer clock was several minutes wrong. The web site requires you to use
an authenticator app, and my app was generating the wrong codes from the system clock.

Why was the clock wrong? The GUI Time and Date Settings utility had "Keep synchronised with Internet servers" selected, though it didn't provide a
way of choosing an NTP. You'd have thought this meant it would go to a
default server, but it obviously hadn't.

Turns out that my version of LM doesn't come with the service that keeps
the clock synced to an NTP server.

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting, whatever you
call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service. But it had either
never been installed, or was masked, or had not been set to start up, and nowhere is there a prompt telling users to do this. Nor am I the first
person to be troubled by this.

WTF?



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 1/31/26 6:08 AM, Handsome Jack wrote:

The other day I was unable to log in to one of my financial accounts. Took several days to work out what the problem was, but now it seems that my computer clock was several minutes wrong. The web site requires you to use
an authenticator app, and my app was generating the wrong codes from the system clock.

Why was the clock wrong? The GUI Time and Date Settings utility had "Keep synchronised with Internet servers" selected, though it didn't provide a
way of choosing an NTP. You'd have thought this meant it would go to a default server, but it obviously hadn't.

Turns out that my version of LM doesn't come with the service that keeps
the clock synced to an NTP server.

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting, whatever you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service. But it had either
never been installed, or was masked, or had not been set to start up, and nowhere is there a prompt telling users to do this. Nor am I the first
person to be troubled by this.

WTF?

And yet you forget to tell us the version of Linux that you have.

--
Linux Mint 22.3, Mozilla Thunderbird 140.7.0esr, Mozilla Firefox 147.0.1
Alan K.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Handsome Jack wrote:

Turns out that my version of LM doesn't come with the service that keeps
the clock synced to an NTP server.

My LM is Cinn 22.1

My system settings only shows me on/off for ntp sync.

I can see my configured ntp server in

systemctl status systemd-timesyncd

... which contains:

Contacted time server 91.189.91.157:123 (ntp.ubuntu.com)

--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Handsome Jack wrote:

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting, whatever you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service. But it had either
never been installed, or was masked, or had not been set to start up, and nowhere is there a prompt telling users to do this. Nor am I the first
person to be troubled by this.

This doesn't sound 'correct'. In the LM forums, there are discussions
about the NTP function as far back as 2011.

2011: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=73540
2024: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=411306

A useful command to address what you say above can be:

timedatectl

... which on my system says:

System clock synchronized: yes
NTP service: active

But the 'reference' at the forum about a 5 y/o guide at linuxhint is n/g
(for my system)

https://linuxhint.com/configure-ntp-linux-mint/

... because the ntp package is not the way my LM takes care of the ntp.

--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 1/31/2026 6:08 AM, Handsome Jack wrote:

The other day I was unable to log in to one of my financial accounts. Took several days to work out what the problem was, but now it seems that my computer clock was several minutes wrong. The web site requires you to use an authenticator app, and my app was generating the wrong codes from the system clock.

Why was the clock wrong? The GUI Time and Date Settings utility had "Keep synchronised with Internet servers" selected, though it didn't provide a
way of choosing an NTP. You'd have thought this meant it would go to a default server, but it obviously hadn't.

Turns out that my version of LM doesn't come with the service that keeps
the clock synced to an NTP server.

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting, whatever you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service. But it had either never been installed, or was masked, or had not been set to start up, and nowhere is there a prompt telling users to do this. Nor am I the first person to be troubled by this.

WTF?

Time is a temperamental topic.

No matter what automation method you use, the time can still be
wrong, and you can use this to check it before authenticating.

My time is off by 1.835 seconds at the moment. The last sync was
30 minutes ago.

https://nist.time.gov/

Paul

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 16:08:49 -0500, Paul wrote:

My time is off by 1.835 seconds at the moment. The last sync was 30
minutes ago.

That sounds unusually bad. On my systems, the time stays accurate to
within a second.

From years ago, I would do tests like

ssh ®customer?s premises machine¯ time
time

and have both show the same time.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 08:20:29 -0500, Alan K. wrote:

On 1/31/26 6:08 AM, Handsome Jack wrote:

The other day I was unable to log in to one of my financial accounts.
Took several days to work out what the problem was, but now it seems
that my computer clock was several minutes wrong. The web site requires
you to use an authenticator app, and my app was generating the wrong
codes from the system clock.

Why was the clock wrong? The GUI Time and Date Settings utility had
"Keep synchronised with Internet servers" selected, though it didn't
provide a way of choosing an NTP. You'd have thought this meant it
would go to a default server, but it obviously hadn't.

Turns out that my version of LM doesn't come with the service that
keeps the clock synced to an NTP server.

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting, whatever
you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service. But it had
either never been installed, or was masked, or had not been set to
start up, and nowhere is there a prompt telling users to do this. Nor
am I the first person to be troubled by this.

WTF?

And yet you forget to tell us the version of Linux that you have.

I'm not sure what "And yet" means in this context, but

Desktop: Xfce 4.18.1
Distro: Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia base: Ubuntu 22.04 jammy

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 11:08:12 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting,
whatever you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service.
But it had either never been installed, or was masked, or had not
been set to start up ...

systemctl status systemd-timesyncd.service

to find out for sure.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Handsome Jack wrote:

Desktop: Xfce 4.18.1
Distro: Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia base: Ubuntu 22.04 jammy

I booted a live LM 21.3 xfce; its default behavior was active NTP,
similar to what I posted earlier on my LM Cinn; the ntp is Ub's and the
tools it uses to function are the same as the later LM Cinn I posted.

So apparently if yours isn't working like the default condition,
something must've happened to de-activate it.

--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

if yours isn't working like the default condition, something
must've happened to de-activate it.

gglAIov says:

To activate NTP in Linux Mint, open the Date & Time settings and
toggle "Network time" on,

I gather that condition was already fulfilled:

or use the terminal command timedatectl set-ntp on. If it remains
inactive, install or restart systemd-timesyncd using sudo apt
install systemd-timesyncd and sudo systemctl restart systemd-
timesyncd

All of that 'stuff' is the condition of 21.3 xfce just like my 22.1 Cinn.

--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 1/31/2026 4:12 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 16:08:49 -0500, Paul wrote:

My time is off by 1.835 seconds at the moment. The last sync was 30
minutes ago.

That sounds unusually bad. On my systems, the time stays accurate to
within a second.

From years ago, I would do tests like

ssh ®customer?s premises machine¯ time
time

and have both show the same time.

I donated a value, so people would have some
idea "what atomic clocks are worth to you" :-)

Time is a very fluid substance.

Paul


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.8
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 21:26:51 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 11:08:12 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting, whatever
you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service.
But it had either never been installed, or was masked, or had not been
set to start up ...

systemctl status systemd-timesyncd.service

to find out for sure.

Not very user-friendly though, is it? I can't understand why the GUI 'Time
and Date' app doesn't allow you to adjust it. Or why it isn't the default
in the first place.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 06:48:15 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 21:26:51 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 11:08:12 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting,
whatever you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service.
But it had either never been installed, or was masked, or had not
been set to start up ...

systemctl status systemd-timesyncd.service

to find out for sure.

Not very user-friendly though, is it?

All the systemd services are managed through a common interface.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026-02-01, Handsome Jack <jack@handsome.com> wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 21:26:51 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 11:08:12 -0000 (UTC), Handsome Jack wrote:

I did some research and found that LM's utility (or setting, whatever
you call it) for doing this is systemd-timesyncd.service.
But it had either never been installed, or was masked, or had not been
set to start up ...

systemctl status systemd-timesyncd.service

to find out for sure.

Not very user-friendly though, is it? I can't understand why the GUI 'Time and Date' app doesn't allow you to adjust it. Or why it isn't the default
in the first place.

The default is the time zone you set it during install of the OS.

The time GUI date has worked just fine fine for me. You need to know the
Region and City of course.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Handsome Jack wrote:

I can't understand why the GUI 'Time and Date' app doesn't allow you
to adjust it. Or why it isn't the default in the first place.

The 'normal' situation is that all that is completely setup from the beginning, w/ the possible exception of the setting of the GUI NTP-on
switch, using your tz, the Ub NTP, and the default settings.

Then, as to the qx of 'what went wrong' for the past year that you
didn't have an operational NTP process, perhaps it was b0rken from the
gitgo somehow during the install, otherwise something must've b0rked it
along the way.

My point is that normally with that DE and that LM, the user doesn't
have to do anything but make sure the GUI switch is on.

I was surprised to find that it isn't that easy to change the NTP from
the default. The only .conf file I could find that had the Ub NTP in it
was commented out, so that wasn't the 'real' one.


--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

The only .conf file I could find that had the Ub NTP in it was commented out, so that wasn't the 'real' one.

The LM forum says to choose your NTP by uncommenting that line and you
can also configure another fallback in the same place:

/etc/systemd/timesyncd.conf
[Time]
#NTP=
#FallbackNTP=ntp.ubuntu.com

uncomment & populate NTP=
optional an alternate Fallback

https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=378554

--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

Then, as to the qx of 'what went wrong' for the past year that you
didn't have an operational NTP process, perhaps it was b0rken from
the gitgo somehow during the install, otherwise something must've
b0rked it along the way.

Aha! Here's a data point.

I booted a live LM XFCE 20.3. Its native configuration is NOT the same
as the current (including your 21.3 and 22 XFCE & Cinn).

It uses the older ntp system as described at my earlier msg LM forum: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=378554

So, if I'm trying to figger out how something went wrong in your system,
maybe it started w/ an earlier xfce like 20.3 to graduate/upgrade to 21
and something went wrong in the transition from the older ntp:

I see /etc/ntp.conf on my LM 18.3 partition (incidentally Xfce)
based on Ubuntu 16.04. Ubuntu started replaced ntpdate and ntp with timedatectl and timesyncd since 16.04. No /etc/ntp.conf present on
my LM 19.3 Cinnamon partition. I'm not sure that it's Xfce related,
more like systemd implementation

On that live 20.3 xfce, if I status:

systemctl status systemd-timesyncd

... now I get loaded masked and inactive dead because that isn't how
the ntp is handled on the older xfce.

If I continue to explore what is my problem, I find that while the
system is *supposed to* get the NTP, it fails because it is trying to
use a now 'bad' NTP at freedesktop.

So on an old xfce 20.3, it is necessary for the user to manually fix the errant NTP, either by installing the systemd service or fixing the name
of the time server.



--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mike Easter wrote:

So on an old xfce 20.3, it is necessary for the user to manually fix the errant NTP, either by installing the systemd service or fixing the name
of the time server.

If one is going to work within the old ntp system, this old Ub page is
useful:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/498973/which-time-server-is-used-by-ubuntu
Asked 11 years, 6 months ago

... because all kinds of ntp.conf (related) commands have problems, such
as timedatectl timesysc-status (on the 20.3 LM xfce) which do NOT on a
current system.

So, my take is that if a person's system were to start w/ such as LM
20.3 (or earlier) to get to 21.3, it would need to successfully
transition its NTP business from the old ntp package system to the newer systemd NTP system, and if it didn't, the old system does NOT work
properly under the newer conditions and needs to be manually fixed by
the user.


--
Mike Easter

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 09:28:05 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

The LM forum says to choose your NTP by uncommenting that line and
you can also configure another fallback in the same place:

/etc/systemd/timesyncd.conf
[Time]
#NTP=
#FallbackNTP=ntp.ubuntu.com

uncomment & populate NTP=
optional an alternate Fallback

https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=378554

Or you can create an additional ?dropin? file to amend the config,
without having to change the main confog file.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.10
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)