It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is
that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach
it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My apologies.
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My apologies. >>
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement technique
is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is delusional.
The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures, attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a certain distro
on the site). But if you use T test, remove the outliers, and measure
longer term averages, you can get a better idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that Ubuntu has been in 8th place now,
for a couple of years (as they don't really care what place they're in now).
I think "level of interest" is a better metric than "mere installs".
It would be interesting to see, how the number of queries per month
has fared, in the "Year Of The Linux Desktop". Making some allowance for
the usual bot-gaming activities. We could, perhaps, conclude "interest rising"
or "interest level flat", without assigning numbers to the properties.
As the magnitude of the numbers might not be very meaningful.
Even if we could think of some privacy-invading method of measuring
OS usage, how would we know what the numbers mean ? Is a human
really in front of the machine ? Does a human care what happens
inside that machine ? we wouldn't know.
On 3/10/2026 3:17 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:I would think "that no matter how bad Windows is", the VAST majority of its users use it because it is what their Employers force them to use because Windows is what their Tech Assist/Help Desks have had forced on them.
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My apologies. >>
If they use it at work, then they and their Family might as well use it at HOME.
On 3/10/2026 3:17 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:I would think "that no matter how bad Windows is", the VAST majority of
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality
is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to
stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
its users use it because it is what their Employers force them to use because Windows is what their Tech Assist/Help Desks have had forced on them.
If they use it at work, then they and their Family might as well use it
at HOME.
On 10/3/26 5:49 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 3:17 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:I would think "that no matter how bad Windows is", the VAST majority of
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality
is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to
stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
its users use it because it is what their Employers force them to use
because Windows is what their Tech Assist/Help Desks have had forced on
them.
If they use it at work, then they and their Family might as well use it
at HOME.
Companies use Windows because Linux would be an internal and external compatibility nightmare. You learned at work, you get good at Windows,
so transfer those skills to the home. Windows is bundled with the PC you bought. Why change?
Tom Elam wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
On 10/3/26 5:49 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 3:17 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:I would think "that no matter how bad Windows is", the VAST majority of
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality
is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to
stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
its users use it because it is what their Employers force them to use
because Windows is what their Tech Assist/Help Desks have had forced on
them.
If they use it at work, then they and their Family might as well use it
at HOME.
Companies use Windows because Linux would be an internal and external
compatibility nightmare. You learned at work, you get good at Windows,
:-D
so transfer those skills to the home. Windows is bundled with the PC you
bought. Why change?
Intellectual curiosity. Dissatisfaction with Windows. You used
UNIX in school.
All three in my case.
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions might be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
On 10/3/26 4:15 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Tom Elam wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):So dual boot.
On 10/3/26 5:49 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 3:17 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:I would think "that no matter how bad Windows is", the VAST majority of >>>> its users use it because it is what their Employers force them to use
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality >>>>>> is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to >>>>>> stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
because Windows is what their Tech Assist/Help Desks have had forced on >>>> them.
If they use it at work, then they and their Family might as well use it >>>> at HOME.
Companies use Windows because Linux would be an internal and external
compatibility nightmare. You learned at work, you get good at Windows,
:-D
so transfer those skills to the home. Windows is bundled with the PC you >>> bought. Why change?
Intellectual curiosity. Dissatisfaction with Windows. You used
UNIX in school.
All three in my case.
There's quite a few Windows like Linux OSs.
I've been on it for some 16 years, but then I've been on some
sort of *nix type system since +- 1975.
On 4/10/2026 1:54 am, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/3/26 5:49 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 3:17 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:I would think "that no matter how bad Windows is", the VAST majority of its users use it because it is what their Employers force them to use because Windows is what their Tech Assist/Help Desks have had forced on them.
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My apologies.
If they use it at work, then they and their Family might as well use it at HOME.
Companies use Windows because Linux would be an internal and external compatibility nightmare. You learned at work, you get good at Windows, so transfer those skills to the home. Windows is bundled with the PC you bought. Why change?
Back in about 2000, the Victoria, Australia, Government decided the EVERY child that started School would be GIVEN an Apple (Mac??) Computer to use at School AND at HOME *FREE* *GRATIS* so that each and every student would have the same OS to use.
I don't know if the program is still in place (no kids!!) but I figure it would, eventually, have done wonders for Apple's sales Figures.
So dual boot.
On 3/10/2026 10:01 pm, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The
reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world
is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not
Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement
technique is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is
delusional. The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures,
attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a
certain distro on the site). But if you use T test, remove the
outliers, and measure longer term averages, you can get a better
idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that
Ubuntu has been in 8th place now, for a couple of years (as they
don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions
might be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for
˙perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
Yeap, for sure .... but the problem (as I see it) is that Linux is
soooo flexible that everyone modifies the BASE LINUX OS to suit THEIR
needs (Me, Mageia!! eventually) whereas MicroSoft releases Windows "AND YOU *WILL* USE IT THE WAY *WE* WANT"!!
If only Linux Devs could get together!! ;-P Pipe Dreams!!
But thank you Devs!!
I think "level of interest" is a better metric than "mere
installs". It would be interesting to see, how the number of
queries per month has fared, in the "Year Of The Linux Desktop".
Making some allowance for the usual bot-gaming activities. We
could, perhaps, conclude "interest rising" or "interest level
flat", without assigning numbers to the properties. As the
magnitude of the numbers might not be very meaningful.
Even if we could think of some privacy-invading method of
measuring OS usage, how would we know what the numbers mean ? Is a
human really in front of the machine ? Does a human care what
happens inside that machine ? we wouldn't know.
I'm guess "Nope, .... as long as the Boss is happy with my output!"
Agreed. For my tastes, Linux deserves a chance to become a regular person's system of choice to get work done and do the things a casualDoes the term "Pipe Dreams" mean anything ..... unfortunately??
computer user wants to do. In other words, if you're not using a
gaming machine, there are nothing but benefits to choosing Linux over
Windows.
On 3/10/2026 10:01 pm, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The
reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world
is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not
Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement
technique is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is
delusional. The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures,
attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a
certain distro on the site). But if you use T test, remove the
outliers, and measure longer term averages, you can get a better
idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that
Ubuntu has been in 8th place now, for a couple of years (as they
don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions
might be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux
distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for
˙perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
Yeap, for sure .... but the problem (as I see it) is that Linux is
soooo flexible that everyone modifies the BASE LINUX OS to suit THEIR
needs (Me, Mageia!! eventually) whereas MicroSoft releases Windows "AND
YOU *WILL* USE IT THE WAY *WE* WANT"!!
If only Linux Devs could get together!! ;-P Pipe Dreams!!
But thank you Devs!!
I think "level of interest" is a better metric than "mere
installs". It would be interesting to see, how the number of
queries per month has fared, in the "Year Of The Linux Desktop".
Making some allowance for the usual bot-gaming activities. We
could, perhaps, conclude "interest rising" or "interest level
flat", without assigning numbers to the properties. As the
magnitude of the numbers might not be very meaningful.
Even if we could think of some privacy-invading method of
measuring OS usage, how would we know what the numbers mean ? Is a
human really in front of the machine ? Does a human care what
happens inside that machine ? we wouldn't know.
I'm guess "Nope, .... as long as the Boss is happy with my output!"
Agreed. For my tastes, Linux deserves a chance to become a regularDoes the term "Pipe Dreams" mean anything ..... unfortunately??
person's system of choice to get work done and do the things a casual
computer user wants to do. In other words, if you're not using a
gaming machine, there are nothing but benefits to choosing Linux over
Windows.
On Sun, 10/4/2026 5:47 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 10:01 pm, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The
reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world
is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not
Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement
technique is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is
delusional. The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures,
attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a
certain distro on the site). But if you use T test, remove the
outliers, and measure longer term averages, you can get a better
idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that
Ubuntu has been in 8th place now, for a couple of years (as they
don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions
might be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux
distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for
˙perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
Yeap, for sure .... but the problem (as I see it) is that Linux is
soooo flexible that everyone modifies the BASE LINUX OS to suit THEIR
needs (Me, Mageia!! eventually) whereas MicroSoft releases Windows "AND
YOU *WILL* USE IT THE WAY *WE* WANT"!!
If only Linux Devs could get together!! ;-P Pipe Dreams!!
But thank you Devs!!
I think "level of interest" is a better metric than "mere
installs". It would be interesting to see, how the number of
queries per month has fared, in the "Year Of The Linux Desktop".
Making some allowance for the usual bot-gaming activities. We
could, perhaps, conclude "interest rising" or "interest level
flat", without assigning numbers to the properties. As the
magnitude of the numbers might not be very meaningful.
Even if we could think of some privacy-invading method of
measuring OS usage, how would we know what the numbers mean ? Is a
human really in front of the machine ? Does a human care what
happens inside that machine ? we wouldn't know.
I'm guess "Nope, .... as long as the Boss is happy with my output!"
Agreed. For my tastes, Linux deserves a chance to become a regularDoes the term "Pipe Dreams" mean anything ..... unfortunately??
person's system of choice to get work done and do the things a casual
computer user wants to do. In other words, if you're not using a
gaming machine, there are nothing but benefits to choosing Linux over
Windows.
It starts with Organization, and Drive.
If you don't have those, you'll never amount to anything.
You will harvest your existing user population, in the
same way that Windows is throwing away its user population.
You reap what you sow.
There is *already* a way for Windows users to experience Linux.
It's via WSL2. But it's not easy, it would be a OneClick install
if it made somebody money, but it doesn't make money.
(non-elevated Terminal)
bash
firefox &
synaptic &
[Picture]
https://imgur.com/a/HuQ0cAO
https://postimg.cc/62r5jWrY
https://i.postimg.cc/MT4MGXv2/WSL2-on-W11.gif
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10/4/2026 5:47 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 10:01 pm, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! TheI meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world
is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not
Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from> >>>>>>
apologies.
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement
technique is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is
delusional. The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures,
attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a
certain distro on the site). But if you use T test, remove the
outliers, and measure longer term averages, you can get a better
idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that
Ubuntu has been in 8th place now, for a couple of years (as they
don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions
might be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux
distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for
˙perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
Yeap, for sure .... but the problem (as I see it) is that Linux is
soooo flexible that everyone modifies the BASE LINUX OS to suit THEIR
needs (Me, Mageia!! eventually) whereas MicroSoft releases Windows "AND
YOU *WILL* USE IT THE WAY *WE* WANT"!!
If only Linux Devs could get together!! ;-P Pipe Dreams!!
But thank you Devs!!
I think "level of interest" is a better metric than "mere
installs". It would be interesting to see, how the number of
queries per month has fared, in the "Year Of The Linux Desktop".
Making some allowance for the usual bot-gaming activities. We
could, perhaps, conclude "interest rising" or "interest level
flat", without assigning numbers to the properties. As the
magnitude of the numbers might not be very meaningful.
Even if we could think of some privacy-invading method of
measuring OS usage, how would we know what the numbers mean ? Is a
human really in front of the machine ? Does a human care what
happens inside that machine ? we wouldn't know.
I'm guess "Nope, .... as long as the Boss is happy with my output!"
Agreed. For my tastes, Linux deserves a chance to become a regularDoes the term "Pipe Dreams" mean anything ..... unfortunately??
person's system of choice to get work done and do the things a casual
computer user wants to do. In other words, if you're not using a
gaming machine, there are nothing but benefits to choosing Linux over
Windows.
It starts with Organization, and Drive.
If you don't have those, you'll never amount to anything.
You will harvest your existing user population, in the
same way that Windows is throwing away its user population.
You reap what you sow.
There is *already* a way for Windows users to experience Linux.
You are thinking like a computer geek.
It's via WSL2. But it's not easy, it would be a OneClick install
if it made somebody money, but it doesn't make money.
(non-elevated Terminal)
bash
firefox &
synaptic &
[Picture]
https://imgur.com/a/HuQ0cAO
https://postimg.cc/62r5jWrY
https://i.postimg.cc/MT4MGXv2/WSL2-on-W11.gif
And you just proved it. If PCs CAME WITH Linux, people might use Linux.
But no Windows USER is going to want to do all of that. You might as well show people how easy it is to do arithmetic in the Chinese language.
Because they have no idea what ?Linux? is and nor do they care.
Most computer USERS are not computer GEEKS. The PC is just a tool to get something done. If they wanted to build their own tools they would be in
the garage with a blast furnace, making steel and then pouring it into
molds to make hammers, screwdrivers, nails and screws.
Most people just go to Home depot and buy the things they need to fix
things around the house. A PC is the same. What ?OS? it comes with it
has no meaning to most people because they don?t know what an ?OS? is.
They turn it on and there is a button to get email and button to look at pictures and another button to shop on the internet and a button to play music. That?s about all they need to know.
Should people be building their own microwave ovens? It?s much easier to just go buy one. It has button to defrost frozen food and button to
reheat coffee and another button to make popcorn. Again, that is all
anyone needs to know.
Macs are growing because lots of people have iPhones and iPads, and Macs
fit right into that. Android laptops have a chance to work out the same
for Android phone users. Because Windows is mainly for businesses and
does not really fit into either the Apple world or the Android world.
Which is where consumers are these days.
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all
the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I
know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking
to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
CrudeSausage wrote:
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all
the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I
know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking
to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
Are they really doing that? Why? I would have thought that Rust
would be used for new things, but why rewrite working code?
CrudeSausage wrote:
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all
the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I
know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking
to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
Are they really doing that? Why? I would have thought that Rust
would be used for new things, but why rewrite working code?
On Mon, 10/5/2026 7:46 AM, chrisv wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all >>> the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I
know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking
to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
Are they really doing that? Why? I would have thought that Rust
would be used for new things, but why rewrite working code?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_%28programming_language%29
"Rust enforces memory safety (i.e., that all references point to valid memory)
without a conventional garbage collector; instead, memory safety errors and
data races are prevented by the "borrow checker", which tracks the
object lifetime of references at compile time."
It might just be intended to remove some of the more subtle bugs. At a guess.
On 2026-10-04 8:24 p.m., Nick Charles wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10/4/2026 5:47 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 10:01 pm, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! TheI meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My >>>>>>> apologies.
reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world >>>>>>>> is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not
Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from> >>>>>>>
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement
technique is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is
delusional. The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures,
attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a >>>>>> certain distro on the site). But if you use T test, remove the
outliers, and measure longer term averages, you can get a better
idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that
Ubuntu has been in 8th place now, for a couple of years (as they
don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions
might be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux
distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for >>>>> ˙˙perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
Yeap, for sure .... but the problem (as I see it) is that Linux is
soooo flexible that everyone modifies the BASE LINUX OS to suit THEIR
needs (Me, Mageia!! eventually) whereas MicroSoft releases Windows "AND >>>> YOU *WILL* USE IT THE WAY *WE* WANT"!!
If only Linux Devs could get together!! ;-P Pipe Dreams!!
But thank you Devs!!
I think "level of interest" is a better metric than "mere
installs". It would be interesting to see, how the number of
queries per month has fared, in the "Year Of The Linux Desktop".
Making some allowance for the usual bot-gaming activities. We
could, perhaps, conclude "interest rising" or "interest level
flat", without assigning numbers to the properties. As the
magnitude of the numbers might not be very meaningful.
Even if we could think of some privacy-invading method of
measuring OS usage, how would we know what the numbers mean ? Is a >>>>>> human really in front of the machine ? Does a human care what
happens inside that machine ? we wouldn't know.
I'm guess "Nope, .... as long as the Boss is happy with my output!"
Agreed. For my tastes, Linux deserves a chance to become a regularDoes the term "Pipe Dreams" mean anything ..... unfortunately??
person's system of choice to get work done and do the things a casual >>>>> computer user wants to do. In other words, if you're not using a
gaming machine, there are nothing but benefits to choosing Linux over >>>>> Windows.
It starts with Organization, and Drive.
If you don't have those, you'll never amount to anything.
You will harvest your existing user population, in the
same way that Windows is throwing away its user population.
You reap what you sow.
There is *already* a way for Windows users to experience Linux.
You are thinking like a computer geek.
It's via WSL2. But it's not easy, it would be a OneClick install
if it made somebody money, but it doesn't make money.
˙˙˙˙ (non-elevated Terminal)
˙˙˙˙ bash
˙˙˙˙ firefox &
˙˙˙˙ synaptic &
˙˙ [Picture]
˙˙˙˙ https://imgur.com/a/HuQ0cAO
˙˙˙˙ https://postimg.cc/62r5jWrY
˙˙˙˙ https://i.postimg.cc/MT4MGXv2/WSL2-on-W11.gif
And you just proved it.˙˙ If PCs CAME WITH Linux, people might use Linux.
I don't believe they would, to be honest. I remember back in the 90s, my cousins bought a computer that came with OS/2. I don't remember what the computer brand was, but it was something Canadian. Anyways, they had
already been acquainted with Windows 95 at my house and it didn't take
long before they asked me to install it on their computer as well. I
mention this because I think that much like with OS/2, anyone who buys a
PC with Linux bundled will request Windows a few days or weeks later. In fact, that might be why MacBooks sell so well on eBay, but used System76
or Framework laptops don't.
But no Windows USER is going to want to do all of that.˙˙ You might as
well
show people how easy it is to do arithmetic in the Chinese language.
Because they have no idea what ?Linux? is and nor do they care.
Most computer USERS are not computer GEEKS.˙˙ The PC is just a tool to
get
something done.˙ If they wanted to build their own tools they would be in
the garage with a blast furnace, making steel and then pouring it into
molds to make hammers, screwdrivers, nails and screws.
Most people just go to Home depot and buy the things they need to fix
things around the house.˙ A PC is the same.˙˙ What ?OS? it comes with it
has no meaning to most people because they don?t know what an ?OS? is.
They turn it on and there is a button to get email and button to look at
pictures and another button to shop on the internet and a button to play
music.˙˙ That?s about all they need to know.
Should people be building their own microwave ovens?˙˙ It?s much
easier to
just go buy one.˙˙ It has button to defrost frozen food and button to
reheat coffee and another button to make popcorn.˙˙ Again, that is all
anyone needs to know.
Macs are growing because lots of people have iPhones and iPads, and Macs
fit right into that.˙˙ Android laptops have a chance to work out the same
for Android phone users.˙˙ Because Windows is mainly for businesses and
does not really fit into either the Apple world or the Android world.
Which is where consumers are these days.
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is actually
very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting their stuff up
with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's approach with the
Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
CrudeSausage wrote:
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all
the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I
know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking
to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
Are they really doing that? Why? I would have thought that Rust
would be used for new things, but why rewrite working code?
On 05/10/2026 13:46, chrisv wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all >>> the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I
know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking
to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
Are they really doing that?˙ Why?˙ I would have thought that Rust
would be used for new things, but why rewrite working code?
Because very very common bugs in C are way harder to make in Rust as far
as I know.
On 10/4/2026 9:00 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-04 8:24 p.m., Nick Charles wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 10/4/2026 5:47 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2026 10:01 pm, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! TheI meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My >>>>>>>> apologies.
reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world >>>>>>>>> is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not >>>>>>>>> Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from> >>>>>>>>
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement
technique is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is
delusional. The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures, >>>>>>> attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a >>>>>>> certain distro on the site). But if you use T test, remove the
outliers, and measure longer term averages, you can get a better >>>>>>> idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that
Ubuntu has been in 8th place now, for a couple of years (as they >>>>>>> don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions >>>>>> might be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux >>>>>> distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for >>>>>> ˙˙perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
Yeap, for sure .... but the problem (as I see it) is that Linux is
soooo flexible that everyone modifies the BASE LINUX OS to suit THEIR >>>>> needs (Me, Mageia!! eventually) whereas MicroSoft releases Windows
"AND
YOU *WILL* USE IT THE WAY *WE* WANT"!!
If only Linux Devs could get together!! ;-P Pipe Dreams!!
But thank you Devs!!
I think "level of interest" is a better metric than "mere
installs". It would be interesting to see, how the number of
queries per month has fared, in the "Year Of The Linux Desktop". >>>>>>> Making some allowance for the usual bot-gaming activities. We
could, perhaps, conclude "interest rising" or "interest level
flat", without assigning numbers to the properties. As the
magnitude of the numbers might not be very meaningful.
Even if we could think of some privacy-invading method of
measuring OS usage, how would we know what the numbers mean ? Is a >>>>>>> human really in front of the machine ? Does a human care what
happens inside that machine ? we wouldn't know.
I'm guess "Nope, .... as long as the Boss is happy with my output!"
Agreed. For my tastes, Linux deserves a chance to become a regular >>>>>> person's system of choice to get work done and do the things a casual >>>>>> computer user wants to do. In other words, if you're not using aDoes the term "Pipe Dreams" mean anything ..... unfortunately??
gaming machine, there are nothing but benefits to choosing Linux over >>>>>> Windows.
It starts with Organization, and Drive.
If you don't have those, you'll never amount to anything.
You will harvest your existing user population, in the
same way that Windows is throwing away its user population.
You reap what you sow.
There is *already* a way for Windows users to experience Linux.
You are thinking like a computer geek.
It's via WSL2. But it's not easy, it would be a OneClick install
if it made somebody money, but it doesn't make money.
˙˙˙˙ (non-elevated Terminal)
˙˙˙˙ bash
˙˙˙˙ firefox &
˙˙˙˙ synaptic &
˙˙ [Picture]
˙˙˙˙ https://imgur.com/a/HuQ0cAO
˙˙˙˙ https://postimg.cc/62r5jWrY
˙˙˙˙ https://i.postimg.cc/MT4MGXv2/WSL2-on-W11.gif
And you just proved it.˙˙ If PCs CAME WITH Linux, people might use
Linux.
I don't believe they would, to be honest. I remember back in the 90s,
my cousins bought a computer that came with OS/2. I don't remember
what the computer brand was, but it was something Canadian. Anyways,
they had already been acquainted with Windows 95 at my house and it
didn't take long before they asked me to install it on their computer
as well. I mention this because I think that much like with OS/2,
anyone who buys a PC with Linux bundled will request Windows a few
days or weeks later. In fact, that might be why MacBooks sell so well
on eBay, but used System76 or Framework laptops don't.
But no Windows USER is going to want to do all of that.˙˙ You might
as well
show people how easy it is to do arithmetic in the Chinese language.
Because they have no idea what ?Linux? is and nor do they care.
Most computer USERS are not computer GEEKS.˙˙ The PC is just a tool
to get
something done.˙ If they wanted to build their own tools they would
be in
the garage with a blast furnace, making steel and then pouring it into
molds to make hammers, screwdrivers, nails and screws.
Most people just go to Home depot and buy the things they need to fix
things around the house.˙ A PC is the same.˙˙ What ?OS? it comes with it >>> has no meaning to most people because they don?t know what an ?OS? is.
They turn it on and there is a button to get email and button to look at >>> pictures and another button to shop on the internet and a button to play >>> music.˙˙ That?s about all they need to know.
Should people be building their own microwave ovens?˙˙ It?s much
easier to
just go buy one.˙˙ It has button to defrost frozen food and button to
reheat coffee and another button to make popcorn.˙˙ Again, that is all
anyone needs to know.
Macs are growing because lots of people have iPhones and iPads, and Macs >>> fit right into that.˙˙ Android laptops have a chance to work out the
same
for Android phone users.˙˙ Because Windows is mainly for businesses and
does not really fit into either the Apple world or the Android world.
Which is where consumers are these days.
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is actually
very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting their stuff up
with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's approach with the
Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but it's
going to require more thought than the Neo.
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is actually
very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting their stuff
up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's approach with the
Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but it's
going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't want to
spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it provides users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for the average user and
the Pro is for the power user. It's all extremely comprehensive. It's
the same with the processors: M5 for the average user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5 Max for those on a tight schedule and the
M5 Ultra for those who believe that even one second is one too many. The approach is a lot more welcoming than going to the store, seeing a Ryzen
9 850 or whatever and wondering how it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX. Even those of us who aren't afraid of a little research think that Pro,
Max and Ultra is a lot easier to get.
On 10/5/2026 7:53 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is actually
very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting their stuff
up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's approach with
the Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but
it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't want to
spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it provides
users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for the average
user and the Pro is for the power user. It's all extremely
comprehensive. It's the same with the processors: M5 for the average
user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5 Max for those on
a tight schedule and the M5 Ultra for those who believe that even one
second is one too many. The approach is a lot more welcoming than
going to the store, seeing a Ryzen 9 850 or whatever and wondering how
it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX. Even those of us who aren't
afraid of a little research think that Pro, Max and Ultra is a lot
easier to get.
My mom bought a Neo, after a quarter century of PC laptops.˙ It's
admirable, to go to that platform now, but the finer choices of hardware with a Dell would be a lot greater.˙ Apple is maintaining its luxury standing.
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is
actually very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting
their stuff up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's
approach with the Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but
it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't want
to spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it provides
users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for the average
user and the Pro is for the power user. It's all extremely
comprehensive. It's the same with the processors: M5 for the average
user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5 Max for those on
a tight schedule and the M5 Ultra for those who believe that even one
second is one too many. The approach is a lot more welcoming than
going to the store, seeing a Ryzen 9 850 or whatever and wondering
how it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX. Even those of us who aren't
afraid of a little research think that Pro, Max and Ultra is a lot
easier to get.
My mom bought a Neo, after a quarter century of PC laptops.˙ It's
admirable, to go to that platform now, but the finer choices of
hardware with a Dell would be a lot greater.˙ Apple is maintaining its
luxury standing.
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining about that Neo.
On 10/5/2026 8:56 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is
actually very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting
their stuff up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's
approach with the Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but
it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't want
to spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it
provides users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for the
average user and the Pro is for the power user. It's all extremely
comprehensive. It's the same with the processors: M5 for the average
user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5 Max for those
on a tight schedule and the M5 Ultra for those who believe that even
one second is one too many. The approach is a lot more welcoming
than going to the store, seeing a Ryzen 9 850 or whatever and
wondering how it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX. Even those of us
who aren't afraid of a little research think that Pro, Max and Ultra
is a lot easier to get.
My mom bought a Neo, after a quarter century of PC laptops.˙ It's
admirable, to go to that platform now, but the finer choices of
hardware with a Dell would be a lot greater.˙ Apple is maintaining
its luxury standing.
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining
about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path.˙ I
have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or
wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.˙ But they need a wider diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're
capable of.
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is
actually very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting >>>>>>> their stuff up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's >>>>>>> approach with the Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but >>>>>> it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't want >>>>> to spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it
provides users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for the >>>>> average user and the Pro is for the power user. It's all extremely
comprehensive. It's the same with the processors: M5 for the
average user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5 Max
for those on a tight schedule and the M5 Ultra for those who
believe that even one second is one too many. The approach is a lot >>>>> more welcoming than going to the store, seeing a Ryzen 9 850 or
whatever and wondering how it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX.
Even those of us who aren't afraid of a little research think that
Pro, Max and Ultra is a lot easier to get.
My mom bought a Neo, after a quarter century of PC laptops.˙ It's
admirable, to go to that platform now, but the finer choices of
hardware with a Dell would be a lot greater.˙ Apple is maintaining
its luxury standing.
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining
about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the PC
world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path.˙ I
have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or
wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.˙ But they need
a wider diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're
capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because
you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a
MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter
played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense
even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm usually a one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which does more. This is
a time before I discovered that the stuttering I was facing was
irreparable, and during a time when I was very much used to fans running
all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it
still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How
could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop
doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what happened. Then, a
period of adjustment. The increased time with the machine made me learn
more about it and appreciate what I was suddenly getting: a machine I
don't have to plug, a machine I can't hear, a machine that
_effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine where the speed is
consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely portable and
which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it even plays my games damned well considering its graphics are integrated. Add
Crossover, and the backlog of games I have on GOG is suddenly available
to me and runs damn well too through Metal. Even though I've since
bought a used gaming laptop to make my entire collection available
without question, I'm actually reluctant to use it most of the time.
That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up
to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it
anymore; I'm using it.
On 2026-10-05 20:34, Paul wrote:
On Mon, 10/5/2026 7:46 AM, chrisv wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all >>>> the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I >>>> know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking >>>> to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
Are they really doing that?˙ Why?˙ I would have thought that Rust
would be used for new things, but why rewrite working code?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_%28programming_language%29
˙˙˙ "Rust enforces memory safety (i.e., that all references point to valid memory)
˙˙˙˙ without a conventional garbage collector; instead, memory safety errors and
˙˙˙˙ data races are prevented by the "borrow checker", which tracks the
˙˙˙˙ object lifetime of references at compile time."
It might just be intended to remove some of the more subtle bugs. At a guess.
How good is an AI at translating C/C++ to Rust, say?
On 10/4/2026 9:00 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is actually
very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting their stuff up
with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's approach with the
Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems,
but it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
On 2026-10-05 7:46 a.m., chrisv wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:
I mention how polished Ubuntu is, but they are also busily replacing all >>> the time-tested C software with horrible Rust equivalents. As far as I
know, Fedora is doing the same thing, so you have to seek out
distributions that hold onto the more stable stock when you're looking
to install. It's part of what drove me away from Linux, to be honest.
Are they really doing that?˙ Why?˙ I would have thought that Rust
would be used for new things, but why rewrite working code?
They say that it's to ensure memory safety, but I believe that it is to distance themselves from GNU. Either way, this push for Rust is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. It isn't a trivial rivalry between things like X and Wayland, Qt and GTK or Flatpak and Snap anymore; it's an overwhelming amount of garbage which makes the operating system even more unwelcoming than it was before.
On 10/5/2026 9:44 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is
actually very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting >>>>>>>> their stuff up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's >>>>>>>> approach with the Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but >>>>>>> it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't
want to spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it >>>>>> provides users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for
the average user and the Pro is for the power user. It's all
extremely comprehensive. It's the same with the processors: M5 for >>>>>> the average user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5
Max for those on a tight schedule and the M5 Ultra for those who
believe that even one second is one too many. The approach is a
lot more welcoming than going to the store, seeing a Ryzen 9 850
or whatever and wondering how it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX. >>>>>> Even those of us who aren't afraid of a little research think that >>>>>> Pro, Max and Ultra is a lot easier to get.
My mom bought a Neo, after a quarter century of PC laptops.˙ It's
admirable, to go to that platform now, but the finer choices of
hardware with a Dell would be a lot greater.˙ Apple is maintaining
its luxury standing.
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining
about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the
PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path.
I have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or
wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.˙ But they need
a wider diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're
capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because
you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a
MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter
played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense
even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm usually a
one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which does more.
This is a time before I discovered that the stuttering I was facing
was irreparable, and during a time when I was very much used to fans
running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it
still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of
storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How
could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop
doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the
MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what happened.
Then, a period of adjustment. The increased time with the machine made
me learn more about it and appreciate what I was suddenly getting: a
machine I don't have to plug, a machine I can't hear, a machine that
_effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine where the speed is
consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine which always
recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely portable and
which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it even plays
my games damned well considering its graphics are integrated. Add
Crossover, and the backlog of games I have on GOG is suddenly
available to me and runs damn well too through Metal. Even though I've
since bought a used gaming laptop to make my entire collection
available without question, I'm actually reluctant to use it most of
the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up
to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it
anymore; I'm using it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows
and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>wrote:
On 2026-10-05 10:08 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/5/2026 9:44 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is >>>>>>>>> actually very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting >>>>>>>>> their stuff up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's >>>>>>>>> approach with the Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but >>>>>>>> it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't
want to spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it >>>>>>> provides users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for >>>>>>> the average user and the Pro is for the power user. It's all
extremely comprehensive. It's the same with the processors: M5 for >>>>>>> the average user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5 >>>>>>> Max for those on a tight schedule and the M5 Ultra for those who >>>>>>> believe that even one second is one too many. The approach is a >>>>>>> lot more welcoming than going to the store, seeing a Ryzen 9 850 >>>>>>> or whatever and wondering how it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX. >>>>>>> Even those of us who aren't afraid of a little research think that >>>>>>> Pro, Max and Ultra is a lot easier to get.
My mom bought a Neo, after a quarter century of PC laptops.˙ It's >>>>>> admirable, to go to that platform now, but the finer choices of
hardware with a Dell would be a lot greater.˙ Apple is maintaining >>>>>> its luxury standing.
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining
about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the
PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path. >>>> I have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or
wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.˙ But they need >>>> a wider diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're
capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because
you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a
MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter
played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense
even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm usually a
one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which does more.
This is a time before I discovered that the stuttering I was facing
was irreparable, and during a time when I was very much used to fans
running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it
still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of
storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How
could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop
doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the
MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what happened.
Then, a period of adjustment. The increased time with the machine made
me learn more about it and appreciate what I was suddenly getting: a
machine I don't have to plug, a machine I can't hear, a machine that
_effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine where the speed is
consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine which always
recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely portable and
which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it even plays
my games damned well considering its graphics are integrated. Add
Crossover, and the backlog of games I have on GOG is suddenly
available to me and runs damn well too through Metal. Even though I've
since bought a used gaming laptop to make my entire collection
available without question, I'm actually reluctant to use it most of
the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up
to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it
anymore; I'm using it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows
and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees
out. Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC
with ARM is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still >better off with the latter because there is at least a chance that it
might improve with time.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>wrote:
On 2026-10-05 10:08 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/5/2026 9:44 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is >>>>>>>>>> actually very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting >>>>>>>>>> their stuff up with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's >>>>>>>>>> approach with the Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems, but >>>>>>>>> it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
The Neo is a brilliant attempt to attract the people who don't >>>>>>>> want to spend more than $1k for a computer. For what it costs, it >>>>>>>> provides users with a rather stellar experience. The Air is for >>>>>>>> the average user and the Pro is for the power user. It's all
extremely comprehensive. It's the same with the processors: M5 for >>>>>>>> the average user, M5 Pro for those looking for a little more, M5 >>>>>>>> Max for those on a tight schedule and the M5 Ultra for those who >>>>>>>> believe that even one second is one too many. The approach is a >>>>>>>> lot more welcoming than going to the store, seeing a Ryzen 9 850 >>>>>>>> or whatever and wondering how it compares to a Core 7 Ultra 175HX. >>>>>>>> Even those of us who aren't afraid of a little research think that >>>>>>>> Pro, Max and Ultra is a lot easier to get.
My mom bought a Neo, after a quarter century of PC laptops.˙ It's >>>>>>> admirable, to go to that platform now, but the finer choices of
hardware with a Dell would be a lot greater.˙ Apple is maintaining >>>>>>> its luxury standing.
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining >>>>>> about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the
PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path. >>>>> I have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or >>>>> wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.˙ But they need >>>>> a wider diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're >>>>> capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because
you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a
MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter
played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense
even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm usually a
one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which does more.
This is a time before I discovered that the stuttering I was facing
was irreparable, and during a time when I was very much used to fans
running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it
still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of
storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How
could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop
doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the
MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what happened.
Then, a period of adjustment. The increased time with the machine made >>>> me learn more about it and appreciate what I was suddenly getting: a
machine I don't have to plug, a machine I can't hear, a machine that
_effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine where the speed is
consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine which always
recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely portable and
which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it even plays
my games damned well considering its graphics are integrated. Add
Crossover, and the backlog of games I have on GOG is suddenly
available to me and runs damn well too through Metal. Even though I've >>>> since bought a used gaming laptop to make my entire collection
available without question, I'm actually reluctant to use it most of
the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up >>>> to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it
anymore; I'm using it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows >>> and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees
out. Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC
with ARM is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still
better off with the latter because there is at least a chance that it
might improve with time.
My Raspberry Pi4 8 GB with a 4 TB harddisc and a rtl-sdr stick for
RF stuff will outperform most other stuff, except for gamers perhaps.
Who needs apple?
Payed less then a hundred dollars for this system.
raspberrypi: ~ # df
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 124334328 33746904 85488596 29% /
devtmpfs 3879380 3879380 0 100% /dev
tmpfs 4044244 19984 4024260 1% /dev/shm
tmpfs 1617700 1328 1616372 1% /run
tmpfs 5120 4 5116 1% /run/lock
/dev/mmcblk0p1 258095 50413 207682 20% /boot
tmpfs 808848 24 808824 1% /run/user/1000
/dev/sdb2 3844420600 3554244888 94815048 98% /mnt/sda2
raspberrypi: ~ # uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 5.15.32-v7l+ #1538 SMP Thu Mar 31 19:39:41 BST 2022 armv7l GNU/Linux
Old distro! just put SDcard in this one years back..
Update some stuff,
9 virtual desktops, xfm, Chromium, audio, video, radio, navigation,
all sorts of stuff
Internet with a huawei 4G USB stick.
Some sensors I build in as a 'hat'..
Freedom!
Debian like OS and yes ARM
https://panteltje.online/pub/boats_and_planes.gif
https://panteltje.nl/pub/xgpspc_5_planes.gif
spectrum analyzer, radio too:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/xpsa_raspi4_1090MHz.gif
Why pay more for more restrictions?
On Mon, 10/5/2026 4:53 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/4/2026 9:00 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The way Apple devices effortlessly work with one another is actually
very addictive. Even people who are comfortable setting their stuff up
with Bluetooth will admit that they love Apple's approach with the
Airpods and iPhones connecting to a Mac.
I'm beginning to see signs of untold growth in Apple systems,
but it's going to require more thought than the Neo.
With the RAM and VRAM shortages in 2027, next year will
be a relatively quiet time for computer world conquests.
Some of those smartphones out there, might need an extended
support program, because they could become too expensive
to replace.
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining
about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the
PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path.
I have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or
wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.˙ But they
need a wider diversification of their hardware to do what I think
they're capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because
you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a
MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter
played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense
even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm usually a
one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which does more.
This is a time before I discovered that the stuttering I was facing
was irreparable, and during a time when I was very much used to fans
running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it
still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of
storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How
could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop
doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the
MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what happened.
Then, a period of adjustment. The increased time with the machine
made me learn more about it and appreciate what I was suddenly
getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I can't hear, a
machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine where the
speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine which
always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely
portable and which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck,
it even plays my games damned well considering its graphics are
integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of games I have on GOG is
suddenly available to me and runs damn well too through Metal. Even
though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to make my entire
collection available without question, I'm actually reluctant to use
it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it
up to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it
anymore; I'm using it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice.
Windows and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees
out. Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC
with ARM is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still better off with the latter because there is at least a chance that it
might improve with time.
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path. I have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.˙ But they need a wider diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm usually a one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which does more. This is a time before I discovered that the stuttering I was facing was irreparable, and during a time when I was very much used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what happened. Then, a period of adjustment. The increased time with the machine made me learn more about it and appreciate what I was suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I can't hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely portable and which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it even plays my games damned well
considering its graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of games I have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn well too through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to make my entire collection available without question, I'm actually reluctant to use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it anymore; I'm using it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees out. Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC with ARM is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still better off with the latter because there is at least a chance that it might improve with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM, as would be Windows in some ways, I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something assuming its versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the highest category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on the cheap.˙ Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to produce devices in a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely doing, although it's worth noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix and from MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out of the box.˙ The larger question is whether someone has something bigger than Apple.˙ Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:the office is moving to Ubuntu and Mac. All non-legacy Windows systems will
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My apologies.
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement technique
is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is delusional.
The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures, attempts have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a certain distro on the site). But if you use T test, remove the outliers, and measure longer term averages, you can get a better idea of the "true" level of interest. I can well believe that Ubuntu has been in 8th place now,
for a couple of years (as they don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions might
be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux
distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
On Wed, 10/7/2026 12:27 AM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because you >>>>> haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a MacBook AirEven a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining about
that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached. In the PC >>>>>> world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path. I have >>>>>> learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or wouldn't >>>>>> touch. Apple's timing for the Neo was smart. But they need a wider >>>>>> diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're capable of. >>>>>
M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter played games, I >>>>> tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense even though it did a >>>>> great job at work simply because I'm usually a one- machine guy and I >>>>> figured I'd hold onto the one which does more. This is a time before I >>>>> discovered that the stuttering I was facing was irreparable, and during a >>>>> time when I was very much used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it still
seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the same gaming
machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of storage whereas >>>>> the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How could it possibly >>>>> become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop doing something that >>>>> should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the MacBook Air. At first, there >>>>> was a period of anger at what happened. Then, a period of adjustment. The >>>>> increased time with the machine made me learn more about it and appreciate
what I was suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I >>>>> can't hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine >>>>> where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine >>>>> which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely >>>>> portable and which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it >>>>> even plays my games damned well
considering its graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of
games I have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn well too >>>>> through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to make >>>>> my entire collection available without question, I'm actually reluctant to
use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up to >>>>> her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's noticed how
much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it anymore; I'm using >>>>> it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows >>>> and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees out. >>> Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC with ARM >>> is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still better off >>> with the latter because there is at least a chance that it might improve >>> with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM, as would be Windows in some ways,
I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something assuming its >> versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the highest >> category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on the cheap.
Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to produce devices in
a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely doing, although it's worth >> noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix and from >> MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out of the >> box. The larger question is whether someone has something bigger than Apple. >> Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having their OS as
a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I'd want a device that has room for SODIMM or DIMM expansion.
Machines with soldered down RAM, that's not my style.
I want to be able to upgrade the RAM, when the price is right.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-repairable-macbook-in-14-years
"That tradeoff is not new, and we have criticized it as recently as earlier this week.
The Neo just brings the same compromise to a cheap MacBook. Whatever storage and memory
you buy on day one is what you live with for the life of the machine."
And the picture compares an iPhone (top of picture) to the Neo (bottom of picture).
https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2026/03/12215046/MacBook_Neo_75.jpg
The A18 is the center chip, and the RAM is inside it. It's likely another stacked-die thing.
https://www.techpowerup.com/347063/apple-macbook-neo-capped-at-8-gb-ram-by-a18-pro-info-pop-packaging?cp=2
"This memory is attached directly above the A18 Pro SoC
using Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package (InFO-PoP),
creating a 3D wafer-level fan-out package."
So you are really buying a smartphone. In a tarted-up package.
On Oct 7, 2026 at 2:10:57?AM EDT, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 10/7/2026 12:27 AM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining about
that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached. In the PC >>>>>>> world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path. I have
learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or wouldn't >>>>>>> touch. Apple's timing for the Neo was smart. But they need a wider >>>>>>> diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because you
haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a MacBook Air
M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter played games, I >>>>>> tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense even though it did a
great job at work simply because I'm usually a one- machine guy and I >>>>>> figured I'd hold onto the one which does more. This is a time before I >>>>>> discovered that the stuttering I was facing was irreparable, and during a
time when I was very much used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it still
seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the same gaming
machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of storage whereas
the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How could it possibly >>>>>> become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop doing something that >>>>>> should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the MacBook Air. At first, there >>>>>> was a period of anger at what happened. Then, a period of adjustment. The
increased time with the machine made me learn more about it and appreciate
what I was suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I >>>>>> can't hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine >>>>>> where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine >>>>>> which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely >>>>>> portable and which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it >>>>>> even plays my games damned well
considering its graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of
games I have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn well too >>>>>> through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to make
my entire collection available without question, I'm actually reluctant to
use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up to
her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's noticed how
much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it anymore; I'm using
it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows >>>>> and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees out.
Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC with ARM
is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still better off >>>> with the latter because there is at least a chance that it might improve >>>> with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM, as would be Windows in some ways,
I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something assuming its >>> versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the highest
category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on the cheap.
Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to produce devices in
a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely doing, although it's worth >>> noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix and from >>> MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out of the
box. The larger question is whether someone has something bigger than Apple.
Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having their OS as
a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I'd want a device that has room for SODIMM or DIMM expansion.
Machines with soldered down RAM, that's not my style.
I want to be able to upgrade the RAM, when the price is right.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-repairable-macbook-in-14-years
"That tradeoff is not new, and we have criticized it as recently as earlier
this week.
The Neo just brings the same compromise to a cheap MacBook. Whatever
storage and memory
you buy on day one is what you live with for the life of the machine." >>
And the picture compares an iPhone (top of picture) to the Neo (bottom of
picture).
https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2026/03/12215046/MacBook_Neo_75.jpg >>
The A18 is the center chip, and the RAM is inside it. It's likely another
stacked-die thing.
https://www.techpowerup.com/347063/apple-macbook-neo-capped-at-8-gb-ram-by-a18-pro-info-pop-packaging?cp=2
"This memory is attached directly above the A18 Pro SoC
using Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package (InFO-PoP),
creating a 3D wafer-level fan-out package."
So you are really buying a smartphone. In a tarted-up package.
Actually, you are really buying a Mac. Condensed down into a phone package.
Same hardware. Same Unix OS, with different UIs to fit the screen size.
Same apps: Safari, Notes, Photos, Weather, Mail, Music, etc. In fact, on the first iPhone the OS was just called OS X. The name iOS came later,
Turns out it is very nice and extremely practical to have such flexible hardware and software.
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining >>>>>> about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached.˙ In the >>>>> PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the
path. I have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I
would or wouldn't touch.˙ Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.
But they need a wider diversification of their hardware to do what
I think they're capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is
because you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I
had a MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the
latter played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1
made sense even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm
usually a one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which
does more. This is a time before I discovered that the stuttering I
was facing was irreparable, and during a time when I was very much
used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it
still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB
of storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM.
How could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the
laptop doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had
the MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what
happened. Then, a period of adjustment. The increased time with the
machine made me learn more about it and appreciate what I was
suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I can't
hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine
where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a
machine which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is
infinitely portable and which connects to all my devices without
effort. Heck, it even plays my games damned well considering its
graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of games I
have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn well too
through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to
make my entire collection available without question, I'm actually
reluctant to use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it
up to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it
anymore; I'm using it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice.
Windows and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is
using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees
out. Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a
PC with ARM is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're
still better off with the latter because there is at least a chance
that it might improve with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM,
as would be Windows in some
ways, I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something assuming its versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the highest category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on the cheap.˙ Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to
produce devices in a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely
doing, although it's worth noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix and from MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out of
the box.˙ The larger question is whether someone has something bigger
than Apple.˙ Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation
schemes go.
On Oct 3, 2026, CrudeSausage wrote
(in article<6ac0ee93$0$25$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>):
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:the office is moving to Ubuntu and Mac. All non-legacy Windows systems will be outtahere by January. ?Legacy? would be old XP and 7 systems still
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is >>>>> that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach >>>>> it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement technique >>> is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is delusional.
The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures, attempts >>> have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a certain distro >>> on the site). But if you use T test, remove the outliers, and measure
longer term averages, you can get a better idea of the "true" level of
interest. I can well believe that Ubuntu has been in 8th place now,
for a couple of years (as they don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions might
be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux
distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for
perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
running because they?re attached to hardware which doesn?t have drivers
for later versions of Windows or non-Windows OSes.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out
of the box.˙ The larger question is whether someone has something
bigger than Apple.˙ Historically having native gaming made Microsoft
cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as
emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised that the only games that didn't run right are the original version of Oblivion
(probably because of its age) and the Contra collection of games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing that you can get
games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill that market for
Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still try to attract
developers into producing native versions of their titles for the
hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable, even in the base models.
On 10/7/2026 8:53 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out
of the box.˙ The larger question is whether someone has something
bigger than Apple.˙ Historically having native gaming made Microsoft
cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as
emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine
through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised
that the only games that didn't run right are the original version of
Oblivion (probably because of its age) and the Contra collection of
games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing that
you can get games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill that
market for Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still try to
attract developers into producing native versions of their titles for
the hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable, even in the
base models.
I am not convinced Microsoft has an unbreakable hold on the gaming
platform, but Apple should open its eyes and fast to what its footprint
in laptops could be.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small
out of the box.˙ The larger question is whether someone has
something bigger than Apple.˙ Historically having native gaming made
Microsoft cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices
isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine
through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised
that the only games that didn't run right are the original version of
Oblivion (probably because of its age) and the Contra collection of
games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing
that you can get games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill
that market for Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still try
to attract developers into producing native versions of their titles
for the hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable, even in
the base models.
I am not convinced Microsoft has an unbreakable hold on the gaming
platform, but Apple should open its eyes and fast to what its
footprint in laptops could be.
I think one way Apple could easily become a go-to platform for gaming
would be to purchase either Nintendo or Sony. Nintendo seems like the
more obvious choice because the hardware they sell is primarily
portable, and they tend not to push the envelope when it comes to the specifications of their hardware. They don't believe that fun games
require the most powerful computer on the market to run, and that would
be ideal for a company that wants the gaming experience to be just as
good on a base-level computer as on a powerhouse. Sony has also
irritated people with their decision to no longer sell physical media, something that is compatible with a company that gave up on physical
media a long time ago.
On 10/8/2026 11:15 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small
out of the box.˙ The larger question is whether someone has
something bigger than Apple.˙ Historically having native gaming
made Microsoft cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM
devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine
through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised
that the only games that didn't run right are the original version
of Oblivion (probably because of its age) and the Contra collection
of games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing
that you can get games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill
that market for Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still
try to attract developers into producing native versions of their
titles for the hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable,
even in the base models.
I am not convinced Microsoft has an unbreakable hold on the gaming
platform, but Apple should open its eyes and fast to what its
footprint in laptops could be.
I think one way Apple could easily become a go-to platform for gaming
would be to purchase either Nintendo or Sony. Nintendo seems like the
more obvious choice because the hardware they sell is primarily
portable, and they tend not to push the envelope when it comes to the
specifications of their hardware. They don't believe that fun games
require the most powerful computer on the market to run, and that
would be ideal for a company that wants the gaming experience to be
just as good on a base-level computer as on a powerhouse. Sony has
also irritated people with their decision to no longer sell physical
media, something that is compatible with a company that gave up on
physical media a long time ago.
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and
having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy with what
I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and
having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a
way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy
with what I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future
sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able
to fully embrace something better.
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and
having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a
way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy
with what I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future
sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was
able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential
for more than I realized.˙ Then again, it's so trivial to have what I
have.˙ Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy with what I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized.˙ Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have.˙ Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy with what I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized.˙ Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have.˙ Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
On 2026-10-09 4:07 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy with what I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized.˙ Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have.˙ Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
I am willing to wager that even after Intel puts all of its resources and energy into countering the Neo, it will _still_ produce a worse result. Just for the heck of it, I asked AI to tell me which processors perform as well as the M4 in my MacBook Air. The result:
"The Apple M4 is most closely equivalent to Intel Core i9-14900K and AMD Ryzen 7 9700X in terms of overall high-end consumer performance, though its strengths vary by workload.
Single-Core Performance
The M4 leads its competitors in single-core tasks, outperforming the Intel Core i9-14900K by approximately 15?16% and beating the Intel Core Ultra 7 258V by over 43%. It competes directly with the AMD Ryzen 7 9700X for the highest-scoring consumer SoC in benchmarks like Geekbench and Cinebench.
Multi-Core Performance
In multi-threaded workloads, the M4 is significantly outperformed by high-core-count desktop chips. The Intel Core i9-14900K is roughly 127% faster in multi-core benchmarks, while the Intel Core i9-12900H and Intel Core i7-14700 offer higher core/thread counts (24/32 and 20/28 respectively) that dominate in rendering and compilation. The M4?s multi-core performance is more comparable to the Intel Core Ultra series and AMD Ryzen series mobile processors. "
It should be noted that M4 computers cost a lot less than computers with those processors nowadays. They also produce that performance all the while providing excellent battery life and silent operation in a laptop and the latter in a desktop. Add fans in the desktop product and Intel/AMD's can only compete by doubling your power bill and warming your entire house with the heat it produces. If you opt for the AMD, you'll also have the added benefit of constant stuttering from their garbage implementation of TPM. It's just a joke at this point. You'd have to be a clown to continue using a PC.
On Fri, 10/9/2026 5:20 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-09 4:07 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy with what I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized.˙ Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have.˙ Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
I am willing to wager that even after Intel puts all of its resources and energy into countering the Neo, it will _still_ produce a worse result. Just for the heck of it, I asked AI to tell me which processors perform as well as the M4 in my MacBook Air. The result:
"The Apple M4 is most closely equivalent to Intel Core i9-14900K and AMD Ryzen 7 9700X in terms of overall high-end consumer performance, though its strengths vary by workload.
Single-Core Performance
The M4 leads its competitors in single-core tasks, outperforming the Intel Core i9-14900K by approximately 15?16% and beating the Intel Core Ultra 7 258V by over 43%. It competes directly with the AMD Ryzen 7 9700X for the highest-scoring consumer SoC in benchmarks like Geekbench and Cinebench.
Multi-Core Performance
In multi-threaded workloads, the M4 is significantly outperformed by high-core-count desktop chips. The Intel Core i9-14900K is roughly 127% faster in multi-core benchmarks, while the Intel Core i9-12900H and Intel Core i7-14700 offer higher core/thread counts (24/32 and 20/28 respectively) that dominate in rendering and compilation. The M4?s multi-core performance is more comparable to the Intel Core Ultra series and AMD Ryzen series mobile processors. "
It should be noted that M4 computers cost a lot less than computers with those processors nowadays. They also produce that performance all the while providing excellent battery life and silent operation in a laptop and the latter in a desktop. Add fans in the desktop product and Intel/AMD's can only compete by doubling your power bill and warming your entire house with the heat it produces. If you opt for the AMD, you'll also have the added benefit of constant stuttering from their garbage implementation of TPM. It's just a joke at this point. You'd have to be a clown to continue using a PC.
Keep looking. Wildcat lake can be used for low end stuff.
https://www.techpowerup.com/348551/intel-wildcat-lake-outruns-apples-macbook-neo-and-its-successor-in-first-benchmarks
# On Mini-PC, watch out that 304 is not substituted for 305.
# The Techpowerup is using the 320 as an example, but the
# clock rate versus price, isn't worth it at quantity 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_processors
On 2026-10-09 6:13 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 5:20 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-09 4:07 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale.˙ I'm happy with what I have.˙ But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized.˙ Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have.˙ Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
I am willing to wager that even after Intel puts all of its resources and energy into countering the Neo, it will _still_ produce a worse result. Just for the heck of it, I asked AI to tell me which processors perform as well as the M4 in my MacBook Air. The result:
"The Apple M4 is most closely equivalent to Intel Core i9-14900K and AMD Ryzen 7 9700X in terms of overall high-end consumer performance, though its strengths vary by workload.
Single-Core Performance
The M4 leads its competitors in single-core tasks, outperforming the Intel Core i9-14900K by approximately 15?16% and beating the Intel Core Ultra 7 258V by over 43%. It competes directly with the AMD Ryzen 7 9700X for the highest-scoring consumer SoC in benchmarks like Geekbench and Cinebench.
Multi-Core Performance
In multi-threaded workloads, the M4 is significantly outperformed by high-core-count desktop chips. The Intel Core i9-14900K is roughly 127% faster in multi-core benchmarks, while the Intel Core i9-12900H and Intel Core i7-14700 offer higher core/thread counts (24/32 and 20/28 respectively) that dominate in rendering and compilation. The M4?s multi-core performance is more comparable to the Intel Core Ultra series and AMD Ryzen series mobile processors. "
It should be noted that M4 computers cost a lot less than computers with those processors nowadays. They also produce that performance all the while providing excellent battery life and silent operation in a laptop and the latter in a desktop. Add fans in the desktop product and Intel/AMD's can only compete by doubling your power bill and warming your entire house with the heat it produces. If you opt for the AMD, you'll also have the added benefit of constant stuttering from their garbage implementation of TPM. It's just a joke at this point. You'd have to be a clown to continue using a PC.
Keep looking. Wildcat lake can be used for low end stuff.
˙˙ https://www.techpowerup.com/348551/intel-wildcat-lake-outruns-apples-macbook-neo-and-its-successor-in-first-benchmarks
˙˙ # On Mini-PC, watch out that 304 is not substituted for 305.
˙˙ # The Techpowerup is using the 320 as an example, but the
˙˙ # clock rate versus price, isn't worth it at quantity 1.
˙˙ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_processors
What operating system do those processors usually run on? Is it a system people are trying to get away from?
| Sysop: | Jacob Catayoc |
|---|---|
| Location: | Pasay City, Metro Manila, Philippines |
| Users: | 3 |
| Nodes: | 4 (0 / 4) |
| Uptime: | 497991:41:03 |
| Calls: | 190 |
| Files: | 850 |
| D/L today: |
12 files (6,003K bytes) |
| Messages: | 72,138 |
