Hi,
I currently run a BBS on my BBC Micro (beebs.ddns.net for info), its running over telnet and supports vt100, ANSI and Viewdata/Teletext (on a machine that supports this i.e. a BBC Micro or Acorn Archimedes). With the machine running the BBS most of the time I don't actually get to use it so I was hoping to transition to SBBS but cannot figure out how to send the correct control codes to send viewdata to a BBC Micro client, I've tried a few different formats of files created in a teletext editor (replacing the .msg menu files) but on the BBC Micro it displays the control codes as text rather than interpreting them as teletext control codes over terminal. Is what I'm trying to achieve possible within the currenet parameters of SBBS?
Many thanks,
Fred

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Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata) conrtol codes
By: vela025 to All on Fri Feb 09 2024 08:22 am

Hey Fred,

...
that supports this i.e. a BBC Micro or Acorn Archimedes). With the machine running the BBS most of the time I don't actually get to use it so I was hoping to transition to SBBS but cannot figure out how to send the correct control codes to send viewdata to a BBC Micro client, I've tried a few different formats of files created in a teletext editor (replacing the .msg menu files) but on the BBC Micro it displays the control codes as text rather than interpreting them as teletext control codes over terminal. Is what I'm trying to achieve possible within the currenet parameters of SBBS?

I'm not sure that SBBS can be "configured" to give out Mode 7 graphics - it only understands Raw, ANSI and C64 (I think).

I've always been interested in Viewdata (working for a service provider in Australia in 80's for Australia's national viewdata service) - I started creating a "shell" that rendered Mode 7.

Actually my "shell" makes SBBS work as a viewdata server and supports ANSI (on port 23) and Viewdata (on port 516), and while I have the rendering of viewdata frames done, I havent implemented rendering and replying to messages - I've started work on it (on the ANSI side, with FSX on page *10021#) but its far from complete.

I'll finish it one day, but I'm distracted by other things ...


...ëîåï

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þ Synchronet þ AnsiTEX bringing back videotex but with ANSI

Thanks for the reply, your mode 7 shell sounds great. My current BBS software is OBBS from 1984 which I've modded to support sending full Mode 7 graphics frames and ANSI which it does via terminal rather than acting as a viewdata server it just uses bget to read each byte of either a teletext frame or ansi file and sends it over serial. So on a BBC you get mode 7 graphics but on an ANSI terminal you get ANSI (there's also vt100 if you have neither). It really supprises me that I can't find a BBS host which can do the same.

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On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 08:22:05 -0800
"vela025" (VERT) <VERT!vela025@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

Hi,
I currently run a BBS on my BBC Micro (beebs.ddns.net for info), its
running over telnet and supports vt100, ANSI and Viewdata/Teletext
(on a machine that supports this i.e. a BBC Micro or Acorn
Archimedes). With the machine running the BBS most of the time I
don't actually get to use it so I was hoping to transition to SBBS
but cannot figure out how to send the correct control codes to send
viewdata to a BBC Micro client, I've tried a few different formats of
files created in a teletext editor (replacing the .msg menu files)
but on the BBC Micro it displays the control codes as text rather
than interpreting them as teletext control codes over terminal. Is
what I'm trying to achieve possible within the currenet parameters of
SBBS? Many thanks, Fred

---
_ Synchronet _ Vertrauen _ Home of Synchronet _
[vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Videotex uses escape sequences. I can't say I've tried to use a mode 7
type file with synchronet. I wrote my own videotex script which runs on
a different port since sbbs doesn't auto detect the protocol and it's
just easier that way.

To change color and graphics, double height, separated or contiguous
etc, they're all preceded by an escape character, often referenced as
^[ it's ascii 27.

So for red text you'd put something ^[ followed by a letter A-G to
change the color to red, green, yellow, blue, magenta, cyan, or white
or @ for black.

^[] should change the background to previous foreground color

See if you can get that working to start with.

^[D^[] ^[FVIDEOTEX^[S^?^?5j^?j|^?}~j ^?55^?^?^?^?57h4k

This should provide some text and graphics. Replace ^[ with a literal
escape and ^? with a CTRL-?

If you want to download it, I've put my index page at https://www.endofthelinebbs.com/1a.vtx if you want to download it. I'm
actually going to change the format of my files but this will work. You
could try changing it to a .asc file and just accessing it from sbbs.

Good luck.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 08:22:05 -0800
"vela025" (VERT) <VERT!vela025@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

Hi,
I currently run a BBS on my BBC Micro (beebs.ddns.net for info), its
running over telnet and supports vt100, ANSI and Viewdata/Teletext
(on a machine that supports this i.e. a BBC Micro or Acorn
Archimedes). With the machine running the BBS most of the time I
don't actually get to use it so I was hoping to transition to SBBS
but cannot figure out how to send the correct control codes to send
viewdata to a BBC Micro client, I've tried a few different formats of
files created in a teletext editor (replacing the .msg menu files)
but on the BBC Micro it displays the control codes as text rather
than interpreting them as teletext control codes over terminal. Is
what I'm trying to achieve possible within the currenet parameters of
SBBS? Many thanks, Fred

---
_ Synchronet _ Vertrauen _ Home of Synchronet _
[vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Ah, also keep in mind that you're probably trying to mix terminal and
videotex which isn't going to work. videotex is 7E1 and it sends a #
when you press return, which is actually a _ sign ASCII 96 if I
remember correctly, so that videotex page probably wont work.

In the case of terminal I would expect sending ascii 129 to change text
to red but sbbs seems to want to do something with that and sends -U
when using something like ;TYPE sysop command.

Maybe there is some way to stop sbbs of processing a file and send it
"as is". Maybe I'm talking out my ass :)

So I loaded up commstar and went into viewdata move a did ;TYPE /sbbs/text/1a.asc and it actually worked, sort of. First you'd need to
insert ^L at the top to clear the screen, and because it's all 1 line,
sbbs doesn't display it all correctly.


I've created https://www.endofthelinebbs.com/1b.asc which does display correctly when using the ;TYPE sysop command if you're in viewdata
mode, but your problem there is twofold, there's no scrolling, it only
wraps around to the top and the user still has to use ^M rather than
enter unless you re-write the shell to deal with that.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Thanks for the info, I'm not sure why but I'm unable to access endofthelinebbs.com the connection times out so am unable to see the files you have pointed to. Out of interest what editor do you use to edit your menu files that accepts ESC as an ASCII entry?

Ah, also keep in mind that you're probably trying to mix terminal and >videotex which isn't going to work. videotex is 7E1 and it sends a #
when you press return, which is actually a _ sign ASCII 96 if I
remember correctly, so that videotex page probably wont work.

My current BBS is sending the Mode 7 graphics via terminal using 8n1, obvoiusly it only displays the mode 7 graphics on a terminal that supports it (so either an acorn computer with filtering off in whichever comms software you use (e.g. commstar) or either of the PC connection options here http://beebs.ddns.net/connecting.html)...or just good old syncterm, but displays as vt100 or ANSI depending on what you select.

I was hoping there might be some BBS package out there that will just bget the file as is rather than trying to process it. Feel free to check out beebs.ddns.net to see the mode 7 graphics over terminal.

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On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 09:15:24 -0800
"vela025" (VERT) <VERT!vela025@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

Thanks for the info, I'm not sure why but I'm unable to access endofthelinebbs.com the connection times out so am unable to see the
files you have pointed to. Out of interest what editor do you use to
edit your menu files that accepts ESC as an ASCII entry?

Ah, also keep in mind that you're probably trying to mix terminal and >videotex which isn't going to work. videotex is 7E1 and it sends a #
when you press return, which is actually a _ sign ASCII 96 if I
remember correctly, so that videotex page probably wont work.

My current BBS is sending the Mode 7 graphics via terminal using 8n1, obvoiusly it only displays the mode 7 graphics on a terminal that
supports it (so either an acorn computer with filtering off in
whichever comms software you use (e.g. commstar) or either of the PC connection options here http://beebs.ddns.net/connecting.html)...or
just good old syncterm, but displays as vt100 or ANSI depending on
what you select.

I was hoping there might be some BBS package out there that will just
bget the file as is rather than trying to process it. Feel free to
check out beebs.ddns.net to see the mode 7 graphics over terminal.

---
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In SBBS set your terminal accordingly

[+] Use automatic terminal type detection? No
[+] Does your terminal support UTF-8? No
[+] Does your terminal support ANSI? No
[+] Are you using a CBM/PETSCII terminal? No
[+] Does your terminal support IBM extended ASCII (CP437)? Yes
[+] HIT your BACKSPACE or DELETE-LEFT key: Character 127 (7Fh)
received.

Then create a file like this:

<81>RED
<82>Green
<83>Yellow
<86><88>Flashy!
<84><9d><83>My favorite yellow on blue

You'll need to replace <81> and <82> with the comparable ascii code. In
vi you can do ^V129 or if you want to enter the hex value ^Vx81

Before saving, make sure your file is iso-8859-1 format with

:set fileencoding=iso-8859-1

All this assumes you're on Linux using vim. If not then No idea how
you'd do it in windows. I guess you can use notepad and use the ALT 129
method for entering control codes.

Anyway, I did all that and put my file.asc in the menu directory and
just tried it with bbs.menu and it printed fine.

Hope that helps.

You'll find all the codes in a chart at the back of the BBC Micro User
Guide, something like page 476.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Hope that helps.

YES! Thanks so much, I've made quite a bit of progress thanks to your help. In doing so has raised two more questions.
1. Do you know how to customise the prompt, the bit I've circled here: http://beebs.ddns.net/images/sync/Prompt.jpg (not sure if it's actually called prompt, as it uses characters that Mode 7 does not support. I just want to swap out the divide symbol for something else (I'm at peace with the arrows).
2. When using strings (some that are buffered with "..." like the strings used for message sender, date etc. are fine, but others will insert a chacter rather than overwrite a charater like the toggles here (http://beebs.ddns.net/images/sync/strings.png), did you find a way around this?
Thanks again, you've been a great help

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On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 06:28:29 -0800
"vela025" (VERT) <VERT!vela025@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

Hope that helps.

YES! Thanks so much, I've made quite a bit of progress thanks to your
help. In doing so has raised two more questions.
1. Do you know how to customise the prompt, the bit I've circled here: http://beebs.ddns.net/images/sync/Prompt.jpg (not sure if it's
actually called prompt, as it uses characters that Mode 7 does not
support. I just want to swap out the divide symbol for something else
(I'm at peace with the arrows). 2. When using strings (some that are
buffered with "..." like the strings used for message sender, date
etc. are fine, but others will insert a chacter rather than overwrite
a charater like the toggles here (http://beebs.ddns.net/images/sync/strings.png), did you find a way
around this? Thanks again, you've been a great help

---
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1. The prompts are controlled by the menu files, probably default.src
or default.js depending on which stage of development you picked up
your sbbs.

You can use some logic like checking if the term is ANSI compatible to
give one prompt and then give something different if not.


2. You can use something like @CODE|L3@ and it'll pad to 3 characters,
if I'm understanding your question correctly. You can find more
information on padding, centering and the like on the wiki if you
search for "message variables".

Looks good so far.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

The prompts are controlled by the menu files, probably default.src

or default.js

Excellent that you that has worked well. There are still a few prompt that display the division sign next to them even though (for the ones that aren't in default.js) in text.dat they have no control codes at all around them, an example of this the prompt after starting a search where it asks if you wish to include unread messages...but I can live with this!

You can use something like @CODE|L3@

Again thanks that has worked great. I had spent quite a while on the wiki, I just seem to be looking in the wrong places!

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On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 05:37:11 -0800
"vela025" (VERT) <VERT!vela025@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

The prompts are controlled by the menu files, probably default.src

or default.js

Excellent that you that has worked well. There are still a few
prompt that display the division sign next to them even though (for
the ones that aren't in default.js) in text.dat they have no control
codes at all around them, an example of this the prompt after
starting a search where it asks if you wish to include unread
messages...but I can live with this.

What is the exact message it displays? I don't see anything like
"include unread messages".
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

What is the exact message it displays? I don't see anything like
include unread messages".

Sorry my mistake line 945 of text.dat
"Display Unread Messages Only" 766 DisplayUnreadMessagesOnlyQ

...no control codes but it still gets preceded by the 1/4 symbol in mode 7

I don't have the expertise to set it up so that different ports get different terminal settings...so I'm going to have instructions on the answer page to explain for beeb users the terminal settings they need to choose.

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On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 13:04:16 -0800
"vela025" (VERT) <VERT!vela025@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

What is the exact message it displays? I don't see anything like
include unread messages".

Sorry my mistake line 945 of text.dat
"Display Unread Messages Only" 766 DisplayUnreadMessagesOnlyQ

...no control codes but it still gets preceded by the 1/4 symbol in
mode 7

I don't have the expertise to set it up so that different ports get
different terminal settings...so I'm going to have instructions on
the answer page to explain for beeb users the terminal settings they
need to choose.

---
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Looking at the source, that is wrapped around yesno.

scansubs.cpp: && text[DisplayUnreadMessagesOnlyQ][0] && yesno(text[DisplayUnreadMessagesOnlyQ]))
scansubs.cpp: && text[DisplayUnreadMessagesOnlyQ][0] && yesno(text[DisplayUnreadMessagesOnlyQ]))

My guess is that you'll need to change yesnobar.js in /sbbs/exec - of
course, copy it to mods first before making any changes.

My guess is the checkmark translates to divide on the BBS.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata) conrtol codes
By: nelgin to All on Tue Feb 13 2024 10:28:59

Hey Nelgin,
This message is winging its way to you
from my BBC Micro in the adapted Mode 7msglist.js, I'm having trouble chaning the "from" column width, I have changedthe number for From and To in the max_len section of msglist.js however
it only seems to change the to
column...meaning that on a 40 column
display you cannot see the subject
(even pressing the different format
options 0-7 will not display the
subject). I'd like to reduce each to 10columns so that the subject can also beviewed. I can get it to display to andfrom on one line and the then subject
underneath...but this looks a little
messy.
There's a picture of what I have at themoment at beebs.ddns.net/images/sync/msglist.png as you can see From is takingup a lot of real estate!
Any thoughts welcome,
Cheers,
Fred

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þ Synchronet þ My Brand-New BBS

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: Fred Smith to nelgin on Sat Feb 17 2024 22:09:40

Hey Nelgin,
This message is winging its way to you
from my BBC Micro in the adapted Mode 7msglist.js, I'm having trouble chaning the "from" column width, I have changedthe number for From and To in the max_len section of msglist.js however

Well, it's a good start, though the 40 to 80 column might need a bit of work :)

It looks like setting LEN_ALIAS = 15 or something like that will do what you are wanting. Not sure if that's because max_len isn't working as intended or doing something else.

Try setting LEN_ALIAS are sbbsdefs.js has been loaded and see if that gets you closer to what you're looking for.

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þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: nelgin to Fred Smith on Sat Feb 17 2024 17:58:22

It looks like setting LEN_ALIAS = 15 > something like that will do what you > are wanting. Not sure if that's beca > max_len isn't working as intended or > doing something else.

Thanks for that I had noticed the
SBBSdefs.js file but thought it might
effect something else as well. Changingthat has solved the issue with the Frombut now I can't locate where the size
of the # column is located, it
currently has a length of 5, which i'd
like to change to 4 just t eek out a
bit more space. At least now you can
see the message subject, to and from
all on the same screen!
Thanks again for your help!

---
þ Synchronet þ My Brand-New BBS

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 09:57:47 +0000
"Test Bot" (VERT/BEEBSII) <VERT/BEEBSII!Test.Bot@endofthelinebbs.com>
wrote:

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: nelgin to Fred Smith on Sat Feb 17 2024 17:58:22

It looks like setting LEN_ALIAS = 15 > something like that will do
what you > are wanting. Not sure if that's beca > max_len isn't
working as intended or > doing something else.

Thanks for that I had noticed the
SBBSdefs.js file but thought it might
effect something else as well. Changingthat has solved the issue with
the Frombut now I can't locate where the size of the # column is
located, it currently has a length of 5, which i'd
like to change to 4 just t eek out a
bit more space. At least now you can
see the message subject, to and from
all on the same screen!
Thanks again for your help!

---
þ Synchronet þ My Brand-New BBS

var digits = format("%u", list.length).length;
/* Column headings */
console.add_hotspot(CTRL_S);
printf("%-*s ", digits, "#");
though it looks you could try hard setting the format of digits to 4 characters, but be aware that it may not display properly for groups
with over 9999 messages.
I've not tried it, but that's my best guess.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: Test Bot to nelgin on Sun Feb 18 2024 09:57 am

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: nelgin to Fred Smith on Sat Feb 17 2024 17:58:22

It looks like setting LEN_ALIAS = 15 > something like that will do what you

are wanting. Not sure if that's beca > max_len isn't working as intended

or > doing something else.

Thanks for that I had noticed the SBBSdefs.js file but thought it might effect something else as well. Changingthat has solved the issue with the

Changing any values in sbbsdefs.js is definitely *not* recommended.
--
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This Is Spinal Tap quote #2:
Nigel Tufnel: Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump".
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On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:41:07 -0800
"Digital Man" (VERT) <VERT!Digital.Man@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: Test Bot to nelgin on Sun Feb 18 2024 09:57 am

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: nelgin to Fred Smith on Sat Feb 17 2024 17:58:22

It looks like setting LEN_ALIAS = 15 > something like that will
do what you

are wanting. Not sure if that's beca > max_len isn't working
as intended

or > doing something else.

Thanks for that I had noticed the SBBSdefs.js file but thought it
might effect something else as well. Changingthat has solved the
issue with the

Changing any values in sbbsdefs.js is definitely *not* recommended.

Yes, I should have pointed that out. sbbsdefs.js is not something to
mess with. That is why I suggested changing LEN_ALIAS after sbbsdefs.js
had been required, in the actual msglist script.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
---
þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: Test Bot to nelgin on Sun Feb 18 2024 09:57 am

Re: Re: Acorn BBC Mode 7 (viewdata
By: nelgin to Fred Smith on Sat Feb 17 2024 17:58:22

It looks like setting LEN_ALIAS = 15 > something like that will do what you

are wanting. Not sure if that's beca > max_len isn't working as intended

or > doing something else.

Thanks for that I had noticed the SBBSdefs.js file but thought it might

pretty sure that's a good way to make your system unstable, dude.
---
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