• London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    From Martin@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 07:08:33
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-causes-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 07:44:53
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117j012$24ao0$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:33 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked: >https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-c >auses-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    In general, this sort of thing is why I avoid Heathrow unless there's absolutely no alternative.

    As for the flippant advice to "allow more time" or in some cases "do not travel, tickets will be valid the following day", this is becoming far
    more common when there's rail disruption. I wonder if it's a symptom of pre-GBR changes to the way the industry wishes to treat passengers.

    I know I have a "thing" about station lifts, which arises from a couple
    of years of pushing a wheelchair around, but they seem to go weeks and
    weeks without being repaired, and the advice is often to travel to the
    next station with a working lift, and double back.

    Fine if it's a couple of miles, not if it's half an hour each way and typically only 2tph.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 07:06:55
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117j012$24ao0$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:33 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-c
    auses-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    In general, this sort of thing is why I avoid Heathrow unless there's absolutely no alternative.

    As for the flippant advice to "allow more time" or in some cases "do not travel, tickets will be valid the following day", this is becoming far
    more common when there's rail disruption. I wonder if it's a symptom of pre-GBR changes to the way the industry wishes to treat passengers.

    I know I have a "thing" about station lifts, which arises from a couple
    of years of pushing a wheelchair around, but they seem to go weeks and
    weeks without being repaired, and the advice is often to travel to the
    next station with a working lift, and double back.

    Fine if it's a couple of miles, not if it's half an hour each way and typically only 2tph.

    You are the one that apparently objects to the level of public subsidy to
    the rail network. You get what you pay for. Don?t pay enough don?t get
    enough routine proactive maintenance. That together with renewals that get delayed to save money. See also potholes and the crumbling road network.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 09:28:28
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117j3ef$259h8$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:06:55 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117j012$24ao0$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:33 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-c >>> auses-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    In general, this sort of thing is why I avoid Heathrow unless there's
    absolutely no alternative.

    As for the flippant advice to "allow more time" or in some cases "do not
    travel, tickets will be valid the following day", this is becoming far
    more common when there's rail disruption. I wonder if it's a symptom of
    pre-GBR changes to the way the industry wishes to treat passengers.

    I know I have a "thing" about station lifts, which arises from a couple
    of years of pushing a wheelchair around, but they seem to go weeks and
    weeks without being repaired, and the advice is often to travel to the
    next station with a working lift, and double back.

    Fine if it's a couple of miles, not if it's half an hour each way and
    typically only 2tph.

    You are the one that apparently objects to the level of public subsidy to
    the rail network.

    I don't object to the overall amount of subsidy, simply the way it's so
    skewed towards overcharging passengers in the South East to give cheap
    tickets elsewhere.

    You get what you pay for. Don?t pay enough don?t get enough routine >proactive maintenance. That together with renewals that get delayed to
    save money.

    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't
    save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares
    box).

    See also potholes and the crumbling road network.

    At least two of the lifts at the prestige central Cambridge shopping
    mall are currently broken. Once again, that could be preventing people visiting and paying to use the car park.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 09:01:47
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117j3ef$259h8$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:06:55 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117j012$24ao0$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:33 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-c >>>> auses-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been >>>> on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was >>>> made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    In general, this sort of thing is why I avoid Heathrow unless there's
    absolutely no alternative.

    As for the flippant advice to "allow more time" or in some cases "do not >>> travel, tickets will be valid the following day", this is becoming far
    more common when there's rail disruption. I wonder if it's a symptom of
    pre-GBR changes to the way the industry wishes to treat passengers.

    I know I have a "thing" about station lifts, which arises from a couple
    of years of pushing a wheelchair around, but they seem to go weeks and
    weeks without being repaired, and the advice is often to travel to the
    next station with a working lift, and double back.

    Fine if it's a couple of miles, not if it's half an hour each way and
    typically only 2tph.

    You are the one that apparently objects to the level of public subsidy to
    the rail network.

    I don't object to the overall amount of subsidy, simply the way it's so skewed towards overcharging passengers in the South East to give cheap tickets elsewhere.

    You get what you pay for. Don?t pay enough don?t get enough routine
    proactive maintenance. That together with renewals that get delayed to
    save money.

    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't
    save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares
    box).

    See also potholes and the crumbling road network.

    At least two of the lifts at the prestige central Cambridge shopping
    mall are currently broken. Once again, that could be preventing people visiting and paying to use the car park.

    Lift repair time is exactly down to cost. Lift repair by its nature comes
    with peaks and troughs. For a fast response you need to accept having
    people hanging around idle for some of the time. That?s clearly
    unacceptable to modern cost accounting. You also need to keep a large stock
    of spare parts, there being a huge variety given the bespoke nature of many installations. Again modern accounting hates having stock. So when your
    lift fails you have to wait for a technician to travel in, once he?s
    finished whatever current job he?s on. He will diagnose the fault and
    possibly have to order in a part that might take weeks to arrive. If you
    are prepared to throw money at the problem you can have far more staff and
    a deep reserve of parts. Lift maintenance contracts are negotiated on the lowest bid, not the highest quality of service. Things could change if
    there was a financial penalty regime on the station operator for the number
    of hours a lift is out of operation, but there isn?t.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 11:01:50
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117ja5r$27edg$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:01:47 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117j3ef$259h8$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:06:55 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117j012$24ao0$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:33 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-c >>>>> auses-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been >>>>> on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was >>>>> made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    In general, this sort of thing is why I avoid Heathrow unless there's
    absolutely no alternative.

    As for the flippant advice to "allow more time" or in some cases "do not >>>> travel, tickets will be valid the following day", this is becoming far >>>> more common when there's rail disruption. I wonder if it's a symptom of >>>> pre-GBR changes to the way the industry wishes to treat passengers.

    I know I have a "thing" about station lifts, which arises from a couple >>>> of years of pushing a wheelchair around, but they seem to go weeks and >>>> weeks without being repaired, and the advice is often to travel to the >>>> next station with a working lift, and double back.

    Fine if it's a couple of miles, not if it's half an hour each way and
    typically only 2tph.

    You are the one that apparently objects to the level of public subsidy to >>> the rail network.

    I don't object to the overall amount of subsidy, simply the way it's so
    skewed towards overcharging passengers in the South East to give cheap
    tickets elsewhere.

    You get what you pay for. Don?t pay enough don?t get enough routine
    proactive maintenance. That together with renewals that get delayed to
    save money.

    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't
    save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares
    box).

    See also potholes and the crumbling road network.

    At least two of the lifts at the prestige central Cambridge shopping
    mall are currently broken. Once again, that could be preventing people
    visiting and paying to use the car park.

    Lift repair time is exactly down to cost. Lift repair by its nature comes >with peaks and troughs. For a fast response you need to accept having
    people hanging around idle for some of the time.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers
    sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there
    were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks.

    That?s clearly unacceptable to modern cost accounting. You also need
    to keep a large stock of spare parts, there being a huge variety given
    the bespoke nature of many installations.

    Many lifts are either identical, or vary only in the footprint. They
    should all have very similar parts-which break. For example sensors that detect if the doors have closed, don't need to be different for lifts of differing rise.

    Again modern accounting hates having stock. So when your
    lift fails you have to wait for a technician to travel in, once he?s
    finished whatever current job he?s on. He will diagnose the fault and >possibly have to order in a part that might take weeks to arrive. If you
    are prepared to throw money at the problem you can have far more staff and
    a deep reserve of parts. Lift maintenance contracts are negotiated on the >lowest bid, not the highest quality of service. Things could change if
    there was a financial penalty regime on the station operator for the number >of hours a lift is out of operation, but there isn?t.

    Surely the penalty should be applied to the maintenance contractor, not
    their customer the station operator.

    We seem to be living in a society that concocts mythical excuses. I had
    a parcel delivered three days late the other day [order placed 25th,
    delivered to parcel shop 26th, got here 3rd], despite being marked "Out
    for delivery" on 31st, but they retracted that because they said it was too/big heavy for their regular delivery service.

    How did they not spot that when picked up from the parcel shop, or
    transiting two other depots before arriving at the delivery-depot?

    Then when it did arrive it was in the boot of a small family car, and
    the cheerful chap who brought it to my door had no difficulty at all
    with the weight (unlike a different delivery I received a week ago which weighs about 100kg, and I can't even move it onto a sack-truck unaided).
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JMB99@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 11:16:50
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't
    save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares
    box).


    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people
    ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and
    that is not cheap.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 11:40:21
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117jeik$292e2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:50 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't
    save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares


    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people
    ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and
    that is not cheap.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers
    sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there
    were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 11:31:52
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jeik$292e2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:50 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't
    save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares


    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people
    ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and
    that is not cheap.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers
    sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there
    were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks.

    They don?t just fix railway lifts. And every customer wants it at the
    cheapest contract price. That?s achieved by minimal staffing. And if those staff are off doing a major fix elsewhere they are out of the pool for some while. Remember lifts remain in service for many years. If some ancient critical part of the electrical/electronic control system fails it can take weeks to obtain a spare. Don?t make that anymore guv. And lifts need
    certified parts for safety critical items. So you can?t take the failed controller down to your mate who knows a bit about electronics. Everything
    is doable at a price, but few customers are willing to pay that price.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Theo@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 13:22:27
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-causes-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    That raises a question. Once upon a time the Reading-Heathrow bus was
    operated by British Rail. I expect in such circumstances it could have been
    a valid alternative route to Heathrow if Paddington was closed.

    I assume that's no longer the case now it's been farmed out to National Express? Or is there some legacy agreement, eg like the ability to buy a ticket on it from rail stations?

    (at least, that's how the Woking one worked. I've never been on the Reading one)

    Theo

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 13:27:38
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <JZe*aB1PA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 13:22:27 on Sun,
    6 Sep 2026, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire- >>causes-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    That raises a question. Once upon a time the Reading-Heathrow bus was >operated by British Rail. I expect in such circumstances it could have been
    a valid alternative route to Heathrow if Paddington was closed.

    I assume that's no longer the case now it's been farmed out to National >Express? Or is there some legacy agreement, eg like the ability to buy a >ticket on it from rail stations?

    (at least, that's how the Woking one worked. I've never been on the Reading >one)

    I'd have thought that the bus would be overwhelmed by people
    self-diverting.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Peter Johnson@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 06, 2026 13:40:29
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 11:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:



    They don?t just fix railway lifts. And every customer wants it at the >cheapest contract price. That?s achieved by minimal staffing. And if those >staff are off doing a major fix elsewhere they are out of the pool for some >while. Remember lifts remain in service for many years. If some ancient >critical part of the electrical/electronic control system fails it can take >weeks to obtain a spare. Don?t make that anymore guv. And lifts need >certified parts for safety critical items. So you can?t take the failed >controller down to your mate who knows a bit about electronics. Everything
    is doable at a price, but few customers are willing to pay that price.

    Having recently spent some time researching cliff railways, which
    mostly these days use lift technology, it seems that the only spare
    parts available are those in production for new installations. So when
    your ten-year-old, for example, lift breaks down and needs replacement components they might have to be made to order, even, sometimes, to
    the extent of having them reverse engineered.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Martin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, September 07, 2026 08:26:56
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    On 06/09/2026 13:40, Peter Johnson wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 11:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:



    They don?t just fix railway lifts. And every customer wants it at the
    cheapest contract price. That?s achieved by minimal staffing. And if those >> staff are off doing a major fix elsewhere they are out of the pool for some >> while. Remember lifts remain in service for many years. If some ancient
    critical part of the electrical/electronic control system fails it can take >> weeks to obtain a spare. Don?t make that anymore guv. And lifts need
    certified parts for safety critical items. So you can?t take the failed
    controller down to your mate who knows a bit about electronics. Everything >> is doable at a price, but few customers are willing to pay that price.

    Having recently spent some time researching cliff railways, which
    mostly these days use lift technology, it seems that the only spare
    parts available are those in production for new installations. So when
    your ten-year-old, for example, lift breaks down and needs replacement components they might have to be made to order, even, sometimes, to
    the extent of having them reverse engineered.

    Using Roland's logic spares for everything made by Amstrad in the past
    should still be available for next day delivery.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Monday, September 07, 2026 08:21:34
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    On 06/09/2026 13:40, Peter Johnson wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 11:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:



    They don?t just fix railway lifts. And every customer wants it at the
    cheapest contract price. That?s achieved by minimal staffing. And if those >>> staff are off doing a major fix elsewhere they are out of the pool for some >>> while. Remember lifts remain in service for many years. If some ancient
    critical part of the electrical/electronic control system fails it can take >>> weeks to obtain a spare. Don?t make that anymore guv. And lifts need
    certified parts for safety critical items. So you can?t take the failed
    controller down to your mate who knows a bit about electronics. Everything >>> is doable at a price, but few customers are willing to pay that price.

    Having recently spent some time researching cliff railways, which
    mostly these days use lift technology, it seems that the only spare
    parts available are those in production for new installations. So when
    your ten-year-old, for example, lift breaks down and needs replacement
    components they might have to be made to order, even, sometimes, to
    the extent of having them reverse engineered.

    Using Roland's logic spares for everything made by Amstrad in the past should still be available for next day delivery.


    Perhaps things might improve under GBR. At the moment the majority of
    stations are managed by TOCs. I imagine that they contract out lift
    maintenance for the cheapest fee they can get away with. GBR ought to be
    large enough to either do the work in house or at least have a large enough national/regional contract to have a dedicated workforce and spares pool.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, September 07, 2026 09:48:16
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117lp00$31mrr$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:26:56 on Mon, 7 Sep
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 13:40, Peter Johnson wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 11:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:


    They don?t just fix railway lifts. And every customer wants it at the
    cheapest contract price. That?s achieved by minimal staffing. And if those >>> staff are off doing a major fix elsewhere they are out of the pool for some >>> while. Remember lifts remain in service for many years. If some ancient
    critical part of the electrical/electronic control system fails it can take >>> weeks to obtain a spare. Don?t make that anymore guv. And lifts need
    certified parts for safety critical items. So you can?t take the failed
    controller down to your mate who knows a bit about electronics. Everything >>> is doable at a price, but few customers are willing to pay that price.
    Having recently spent some time researching cliff railways, which
    mostly these days use lift technology, it seems that the only spare
    parts available are those in production for new installations. So when
    your ten-year-old, for example, lift breaks down and needs replacement
    components they might have to be made to order, even, sometimes, to
    the extent of having them reverse engineered.

    Using Roland's logic spares for everything made by Amstrad in the past >should still be available for next day delivery.

    And many of them are. Amstrad was the first UK home computer vendor who published extensive service manuals with all spare parts listed, and available.

    Only yesterday I was corresponding with someone who needs new drive
    belts for both 3" floppy and cassette. He's ordered them and will arrive
    as soon as the Evri-day courier can bothered to.

    The other most-needed spare part is keyboard membranes, which are also available for rapid delivery.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, September 07, 2026 11:40:28
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117jiv8$2ahko$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:52 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jeik$292e2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:50 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't
    save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares >>>>

    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people
    ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and
    that is not cheap.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers
    sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there
    were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks.

    They don?t just fix railway lifts.

    Oh, so we have Schrodinger lift engineers, who sit around expensively
    all day waiting for railway station lifts to fail, but get called out
    to other failing lifts elsewhere.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Monday, September 07, 2026 11:22:08
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jiv8$2ahko$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:52 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jeik$292e2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:50 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't >>>>> save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares >>>>>

    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people
    ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and >>>> that is not cheap.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers
    sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there
    were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks.

    They don?t just fix railway lifts.

    Oh, so we have Schrodinger lift engineers, who sit around expensively
    all day waiting for railway station lifts to fail, but get called out
    to other failing lifts elsewhere.

    The point being that lift technicians are busy elsewhere and don?t drop everything when a station lift fails. If you want fast service you do have
    to pay for people hanging around.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 08, 2026 14:05:06
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117m6p0$36sgv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:08 on Mon, 7 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jiv8$2ahko$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:52 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jeik$292e2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:50 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get
    repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't >>>>>> save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares >>>>>>

    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people >>>>> ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and >>>>> that is not cheap.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers
    sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there
    were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks. >>>
    They don?t just fix railway lifts.

    Oh, so we have Schrodinger lift engineers, who sit around expensively
    all day waiting for railway station lifts to fail, but get called out
    to other failing lifts elsewhere.

    The point being that lift technicians are busy elsewhere and don?t drop >everything when a station lift fails. If you want fast service you do have
    to pay for people hanging around.

    No, you just have to negotiate a contract which gets lift engineers to stations sooner than office blocks and shopping malls.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 08, 2026 15:45:12
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117m6p0$36sgv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:08 on Mon, 7 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jiv8$2ahko$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:52 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jeik$292e2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:50 on Sun, 6 Sep >>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get >>>>>>> repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't >>>>>>> save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares >>>>>>>

    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people >>>>>> ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and >>>>>> that is not cheap.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers >>>>> sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there >>>>> were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks. >>>>
    They don?t just fix railway lifts.

    Oh, so we have Schrodinger lift engineers, who sit around expensively
    all day waiting for railway station lifts to fail, but get called out
    to other failing lifts elsewhere.

    The point being that lift technicians are busy elsewhere and don?t drop
    everything when a station lift fails. If you want fast service you do have >> to pay for people hanging around.

    No, you just have to negotiate a contract which gets lift engineers to stations sooner than office blocks and shopping malls.

    So, all your lift technicians are out working on non railway lifts, either attending to faults or performing routine maintenance. You would like them
    to abandon their work and go to the station lift? The non railway customers would be unhappy. If you want fast response to something that has an unpredictable demand you have to increase capacity, and over provision to
    meet the peaks. That costs money.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Anna Noyd-Dryver@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 08, 2026 16:13:48
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    On 06/09/2026 13:40, Peter Johnson wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 11:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:



    They don?t just fix railway lifts. And every customer wants it at the
    cheapest contract price. That?s achieved by minimal staffing. And if those >>>> staff are off doing a major fix elsewhere they are out of the pool for some
    while. Remember lifts remain in service for many years. If some ancient >>>> critical part of the electrical/electronic control system fails it can take
    weeks to obtain a spare. Don?t make that anymore guv. And lifts need
    certified parts for safety critical items. So you can?t take the failed >>>> controller down to your mate who knows a bit about electronics. Everything >>>> is doable at a price, but few customers are willing to pay that price.

    Having recently spent some time researching cliff railways, which
    mostly these days use lift technology, it seems that the only spare
    parts available are those in production for new installations. So when
    your ten-year-old, for example, lift breaks down and needs replacement
    components they might have to be made to order, even, sometimes, to
    the extent of having them reverse engineered.

    Using Roland's logic spares for everything made by Amstrad in the past
    should still be available for next day delivery.


    Perhaps things might improve under GBR. At the moment the majority of stations are managed by TOCs. I imagine that they contract out lift maintenance for the cheapest fee they can get away with. GBR ought to be large enough to either do the work in house or at least have a large enough national/regional contract to have a dedicated workforce and spares pool.



    For new installations, that may be possible. For existing installations, I suspect that maintenance will have to remain with the original installer or successor thereto.

    Perhaps I should begin collating a list of the various manufacturers
    involved, though tbh I rarely use lifts at stations (mostly just in
    hotels!).

    For one example I know that the lifts at Bristol Parkway are by Stannah.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, September 10, 2026 06:19:10
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <117pai8$afpd$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:45:12 on Tue, 8 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117m6p0$36sgv$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:08 on Mon, 7 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jiv8$2ahko$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:31:52 on Sun, 6 Sep
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <117jeik$292e2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:50 on Sun, 6 Sep >>>>>> 2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
    On 06/09/2026 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
    The issue with broken lifts is the length of time it takes to get >>>>>>>> repairs done. They have to be done eventually, so delaying it doesn't >>>>>>>> save any money, it just puts people off travelling (so a smaller fares >>>>>>>>

    It does save money.

    If you want a faster response then you have to have of lots of people >>>>>>> ready to go out and fix the fault or pay staff for being on standby and >>>>>>> that is not cheap.

    I don't believe lifts break down so infrequently there are engineers >>>>>> sitting around eating donuts, waiting to get called out. And if there >>>>>> were, they'd be on site within a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks. >>>>>
    They don?t just fix railway lifts.

    Oh, so we have Schrodinger lift engineers, who sit around expensively
    all day waiting for railway station lifts to fail, but get called out
    to other failing lifts elsewhere.

    The point being that lift technicians are busy elsewhere and don?t drop
    everything when a station lift fails. If you want fast service you do have >>> to pay for people hanging around.

    No, you just have to negotiate a contract which gets lift engineers to
    stations sooner than office blocks and shopping malls.

    So, all your lift technicians are out working on non railway lifts, either >attending to faults or performing routine maintenance. You would like them
    to abandon their work and go to the station lift? The non railway customers >would be unhappy. If you want fast response to something that has an >unpredictable demand you have to increase capacity, and over provision to >meet the peaks. That costs money.

    I think we are agree now that the "engineers sitting around eating
    donuts" was a red herring.

    Workflow planning is a solved problem, and simply requires prioritising
    the most needy installations.

    My wife and I stayed at the County Hall Premier Inn three Xmas's ago,
    and it has four passenger lifts. There was never a time that all four
    were working, and a couple of times all four were broken. Able-bodied
    guests were directed to use the stairs, quite a performance given the
    number of floors and very high ceilings.

    We had to use the goods lift, but were used to that, because the only
    way into the building with a wheelchair guest is via the goods-in bay on
    the ground floor and the goods lift(s). And they do expect to have such guests, because we'd booked an 'accessible' room.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, September 12, 2026 13:00:44
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    On 06/09/2026 13:22, Theo wrote:
    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-causes-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    That raises a question. Once upon a time the Reading-Heathrow bus was operated by British Rail. I expect in such circumstances it could have been
    a valid alternative route to Heathrow if Paddington was closed.

    I assume that's no longer the case now it's been farmed out to National Express? Or is there some legacy agreement, eg like the ability to buy a ticket on it from rail stations?

    (at least, that's how the Woking one worked. I've never been on the Reading one)


    AFAIK the Railair services are treated as proper rail services, they
    appear on the departure boards at Reading, Woking and Guildford. tickets
    are available at said stations if you haven't booked in advance.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Theo@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, September 12, 2026 20:48:45
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 06/09/2026 13:22, Theo wrote:
    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-causes-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been
    on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was
    made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    That raises a question. Once upon a time the Reading-Heathrow bus was operated by British Rail. I expect in such circumstances it could have been a valid alternative route to Heathrow if Paddington was closed.

    I assume that's no longer the case now it's been farmed out to National Express? Or is there some legacy agreement, eg like the ability to buy a ticket on it from rail stations?

    (at least, that's how the Woking one worked. I've never been on the Reading one)


    AFAIK the Railair services are treated as proper rail services, they
    appear on the departure boards at Reading, Woking and Guildford. tickets
    are available at said stations if you haven't booked in advance.

    They are and they aren't. For example there's no railcard discount on them, which used to tie ticket offices up in knots (is it cheaper to issue a non-railcard through ticket, or to split and railcard the train but issue a separate ticket for the bus?)

    I expect they don't have any agreement to carry pax in times of disruption either. They are just National Express buses with a ticket sales agremeent, and NatEx isn't in the business of carrying people for nowt.

    Theo

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, September 12, 2026 22:58:16
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    On 12/09/2026 20:48, Theo wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 06/09/2026 13:22, Theo wrote:
    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-causes-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been >>>> on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was >>>> made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    That raises a question. Once upon a time the Reading-Heathrow bus was
    operated by British Rail. I expect in such circumstances it could have been >>> a valid alternative route to Heathrow if Paddington was closed.

    I assume that's no longer the case now it's been farmed out to National
    Express? Or is there some legacy agreement, eg like the ability to buy a >>> ticket on it from rail stations?

    (at least, that's how the Woking one worked. I've never been on the Reading >>> one)


    AFAIK the Railair services are treated as proper rail services, they
    appear on the departure boards at Reading, Woking and Guildford. tickets
    are available at said stations if you haven't booked in advance.

    They are and they aren't. For example there's no railcard discount on them, which used to tie ticket offices up in knots (is it cheaper to issue a non-railcard through ticket, or to split and railcard the train but issue a separate ticket for the bus?)

    Well I got a railcard discount yesterday, RA2 T5 to Guildford.


    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Theo@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, September 12, 2026 23:25:06
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 12/09/2026 20:48, Theo wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 06/09/2026 13:22, Theo wrote:
    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/05/london-paddington-fire-causes-rail-chaos-heathrow-trains-cancelled

    If I'd been traveling to Thiefrow from Wales I would already have been >>>> on my way, probably with an advance ticket. I presume this comment was >>>> made by a fossil fuel head.

    What bloody use is it to advise me to travel early?

    That raises a question. Once upon a time the Reading-Heathrow bus was >>> operated by British Rail. I expect in such circumstances it could have been
    a valid alternative route to Heathrow if Paddington was closed.

    I assume that's no longer the case now it's been farmed out to National >>> Express? Or is there some legacy agreement, eg like the ability to buy a >>> ticket on it from rail stations?

    (at least, that's how the Woking one worked. I've never been on the Reading
    one)


    AFAIK the Railair services are treated as proper rail services, they
    appear on the departure boards at Reading, Woking and Guildford. tickets >> are available at said stations if you haven't booked in advance.

    They are and they aren't. For example there's no railcard discount on them,
    which used to tie ticket offices up in knots (is it cheaper to issue a non-railcard through ticket, or to split and railcard the train but issue a separate ticket for the bus?)

    Well I got a railcard discount yesterday, RA2 T5 to Guildford.

    Hmm, it does seem to be the case now. It wasn't when I used them when
    operated by NatEx. It looks like the Woking bus was taken over by First in 2019.

    Theo

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, September 13, 2026 10:22:30
    Subject: Re: London Paddington fire causes rail chaos as Heathrow trains cancelled

    In message <1183etc$3n236$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:00:44 on Sat, 12 Sep
    2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

    AFAIK the Railair services are treated as proper rail services, they
    appear on the departure boards at Reading, Woking and Guildford.
    tickets are available at said stations if you haven't booked in advance.

    There are several others, for example the Peterborough-Wisbech-Kings
    Lynn bus and the Nottingham-East_Midlands_Airport bus.

    But as far as I recall, not the Nottingham-West Bridgford-Melton_Mowbray
    bus which shadows the line now re-purposed as the Old_Dalby test track.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)