Passengers on Lumo?s ill-fated new Stirling-London service have suffered cancelled services, no working toilets - and now a train which stopped for
an hour to refuel.

In what?s thought to be a very rare incident on the railways, travellers heading for London on Sunday night were force to alight from their train at Crewe in Cheshire for more diesel, The Scotsman has learned.

An industry source said: ?You?ve heard of pit stops in motor racing. Ever
heard of the lesser known Lumo pit stop?

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained
everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform for an hour ? absolute chaos!?

Lumo, which is owned by Aberdeen-based FirstGroup, said it happened because
a shortage of drivers had meant the 20-year-old, second-hand train - one of only five in its west coast fleet - had not been refuelled earlier in the
day.

Another industry source said: ?It?s very rare. Most operators would swap
trains in this situation, but Lumo has a tiny number of trains.?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/lumo-passengers-forced-to-wait-an-hour-while-train-refuelled-en-route-from-stirling-to-london-8953481


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

Passengers on Lumo?s ill-fated new Stirling-London service have suffered cancelled services, no working toilets - and now a train which stopped for
an hour to refuel.

In what?s thought to be a very rare incident on the railways, travellers heading for London on Sunday night were force to alight from their train at Crewe in Cheshire for more diesel, The Scotsman has learned.

An industry source said: ?You?ve heard of pit stops in motor racing. Ever heard of the lesser known Lumo pit stop?

Had a pit stop between Dobele and Riga at Jelgava
on a minibus serice. Wasn't even forced to alight.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 03/09/2026 04:37, Recliner wrote:

Lumo, which is owned by Aberdeen-based FirstGroup, said it happened because
a shortage of drivers had meant the 20-year-old, second-hand train - one of only five in its west coast fleet - had not been refuelled earlier in the day.

But why not? There needs to be some redundancy in any railway fleet,
large or small. For example, if the service requirement is 4 trains then
you should have 7 or 8. There should be depots at strategic points to
service the trains.

If you cannot offer these things then you have no business running a
railway!

Cheers,
--
Rob
"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational
in order to prove that you care, or, indeed, why it should be necessary
to prove it at all." - Avon, Blake's 7


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Clutterbug <clutterbug@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained
everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform for an >> hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

I don?t think it?s refuelled in the platform. Presumably it has to trundle
off to a refuelling point in a depot area, where passengers wouldn?t be permitted.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 04:37, Recliner wrote:

Lumo, which is owned by Aberdeen-based FirstGroup, said it happened because >> a shortage of drivers had meant the 20-year-old, second-hand train - one of >> only five in its west coast fleet - had not been refuelled earlier in the
day.

But why not? There needs to be some redundancy in any railway fleet,
large or small. For example, if the service requirement is 4 trains then
you should have 7 or 8. There should be depots at strategic points to service the trains.

If you cannot offer these things then you have no business running a railway!

It?s clear that Lumo launched the route before it was ready. It has too few drivers trained, and too few trains in service, and they?re not in good mechanical condition. They were received from EMR in a more worn-out
condition than expected, but received only a cosmetic refurbishment, and
seat swap in first class. Alstom hadn?t been contracted to do a full
mechanical refurbishment at Widnes, as Lumo didn?t expect that it would be needed. I suppose they?d been worked hard, with minimal maintenance, during their final months with EMR, covering for absent 810s.

Lumo also doesn?t seem to have arranged enough service cover. For example,
it doesn?t stable the overnight set in London at a location where it can
empty the toilet tanks. Normally that?s OK, but there?s no resilience if
the tanks weren?t emptied at the previous stop.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 04:37, Recliner wrote:

Lumo, which is owned by Aberdeen-based FirstGroup, said it happened because >>> a shortage of drivers had meant the 20-year-old, second-hand train - one of >>> only five in its west coast fleet - had not been refuelled earlier in the >>> day.

But why not? There needs to be some redundancy in any railway fleet,
large or small. For example, if the service requirement is 4 trains then
you should have 7 or 8. There should be depots at strategic points to
service the trains.

If you cannot offer these things then you have no business running a
railway!

It?s clear that Lumo launched the route before it was ready. It has too few drivers trained, and too few trains in service, and they?re not in good mechanical condition. They were received from EMR in a more worn-out condition than expected, but received only a cosmetic refurbishment, and
seat swap in first class. Alstom hadn?t been contracted to do a full mechanical refurbishment at Widnes, as Lumo didn?t expect that it would be needed. I suppose they?d been worked hard, with minimal maintenance, during their final months with EMR, covering for absent 810s.

Lumo also doesn?t seem to have arranged enough service cover. For example,
it doesn?t stable the overnight set in London at a location where it can empty the toilet tanks. Normally that?s OK, but there?s no resilience if
the tanks weren?t emptied at the previous stop.

Was Lumo up against some sort of use it or lose it deadline for the paths?


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Clutterbug <clutterbug@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained
everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform for an >> hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

Principally the fact that the tracks and signalling in the depot are not
passed for passenger operation [1].

[1] outwith certain very specific times eg visits by special railtours
which will have operations and extra safety measures planned months in
advance.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In message <117b96h$3gfk9$1@andyburns.eternal-september.org>, at
08:57:02 on Thu, 3 Sep 2026, Clutterbug <clutterbug@andyburns.uk>
remarked:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained
everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform for an >> hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the >'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

On one hand it might be the same as when refuelling a plane, but in this instance I suspect there isn't a diesel pump on the platform at Crewe,
and the train had to go into the depot, which wouldn't be allowed with
pax on board.
--
Roland Perry

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 03/09/2026 08:57, Clutterbug wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained
everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform
for an
hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

Presumably it had to traverse track not cleared for passenger services
to reach the refuelling point.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 08:57, Clutterbug wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained
everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform
for an
hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the
'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

Presumably it had to traverse track not cleared for passenger services
to reach the refuelling point.

Out of pure curiosity, what is the practical difference between track
cleared for passenger use and not?


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 08:57, Clutterbug wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained >>> everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform
for an
hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the >> 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

Presumably it had to traverse track not cleared for passenger services
to reach the refuelling point.

Out of pure curiosity, what is the practical difference between track
cleared for passenger use and not?

A first guess is about main signals showing main aspects.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 08:57, Clutterbug wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained >>>> everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform
for an
hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the >>> 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

Presumably it had to traverse track not cleared for passenger services
to reach the refuelling point.

Out of pure curiosity, what is the practical difference between track
cleared for passenger use and not?

Don?t you have to have point locks for passenger operation?
Depot ones may not be equipped with them and would need manual ones clamped
on which needs someone qualified to do it in attendance.

GH

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 03/09/2026 13:43, Marland wrote:

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 08:57, Clutterbug wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained >>>>> everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform >>>>> for an
hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the >>>> 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

Presumably it had to traverse track not cleared for passenger services
to reach the refuelling point.

Out of pure curiosity, what is the practical difference between track
cleared for passenger use and not?

Don?t you have to have point locks for passenger operation?
Depot ones may not be equipped with them and would need manual ones clamped on which needs someone qualified to do it in attendance.

GH

And, I suspect, insurance liabilities?

--
Colin


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 13:43, Marland wrote:

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 08:57, Clutterbug wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained >>>>>> everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform >>>>>> for an
hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the >>>>> 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels? >>>>

Presumably it had to traverse track not cleared for passenger services >>>> to reach the refuelling point.

Out of pure curiosity, what is the practical difference between track
cleared for passenger use and not?

Don?t you have to have point locks for passenger operation?
Depot ones may not be equipped with them and would need manual ones clamped >> on which needs someone qualified to do it in attendance.

And, I suspect, insurance liabilities?

ISTR an instance some time back when a locomotive ran out of fuel in open country side and it was refuelled at least enough to get it moving from the fuel bowser of the adjoining farmer. It was a class33 on a charter that
should have taken forward by a steam loco but the steam loco had failed
and the 33 was kept but ran out fuel near Sleaford.
However environmental concerns are taken far more seriously than they once were and should something go wrong while filling and no clean up kit is immediately available there would be right stink,and not just from spilt
Diesel so where refuelling is done at a depot or refuelling point spill
kits and catch pits etc are installed. There are or have been some
locations where an operator arranges refuelling from a road tanker but as
these were regular arrangements Spill measures would be in place.

GH



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 03/09/2026 08:57, Clutterbug wrote:

Recliner wrote:

?[Train number] 1M02 Stirling to Euston last night [Sunday] de-trained >>>> everyone at Crewe to receive fuel ? about 300 people on the platform
for an
hour ? absolute chaos!?

Apart from the stupidity of not keeping the tanks topped-up, What's the >>> 'danger' that requires passengers to exit the train while it refuels?

Presumably it had to traverse track not cleared for passenger services
to reach the refuelling point.

Out of pure curiosity, what is the practical difference between track
cleared for passenger use and not?

Several factors:

Maintenance levels, because derailments of non-passenger trains are, I
guess, less serious than derailment of passenger trains.

Facing point locks - there may be hand points in depot areas, and power operated points won't have facing point locks.

Signalling - this will depend on location, but train movements may be authorised verbally rather than by clearance of signals, with no protection against accidental conflicting moves.

TPWS - signals protecting conflicting moves won't be fitted with TPWS.

Depot exit signals - may be fitted only with trap points, rather than TPWS.

When passenger trains do operate through depot areas, there will be
procedures in place to handle these risks - usually involving points
clipped and scotched, both for the move in question and preventing
conflicting movements. There may also be a ban on other movements in the
area during that time.

Some of the same factors also apply to passenger train use of goods lines, loops and freight-only branch lines, with similar operational arrangements
in place when tours run there.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)