• Are we getting too fussy about delays?

    From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 31, 2026 17:08:12
    Sam?s travels and delays over the other side of the channel led me to contemplate whether we are getting too fussy about delays (no criticism
    about Sam). Things seem to go wrong with all forms of transport. I was
    delayed on the road the other day, adding an hour to a two and a half hour trip. Planes are often late, especially towards the end of the day. Have we just got too consumerist, expecting to get exactly what the website
    promises?


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JMB99@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 31, 2026 18:44:39
    On 31/08/2026 18:08, Tweed wrote:
    Sam?s travels and delays over the other side of the channel led me to contemplate whether we are getting too fussy about delays (no criticism
    about Sam). Things seem to go wrong with all forms of transport. I was delayed on the road the other day, adding an hour to a two and a half hour trip. Planes are often late, especially towards the end of the day. Have we just got too consumerist, expecting to get exactly what the website
    promises?



    I suppose the big difference is that if you are in your car then you can
    try a different route, stop somewhere for a meal and drink or carry
    these in the car. Even motorway traffic can be turned around and
    diverted fairly quickly. Aircraft will normally have food and drink on
    board and of course cannot stay up in the air so must be brought down.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From NY@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 31, 2026 20:54:24
    On 31/08/2026 18:44, JMB99 wrote:
    On 31/08/2026 18:08, Tweed wrote:
    Sam?s travels and delays over the other side of the channel led me to
    contemplate whether we are getting too fussy about delays (no criticism
    about Sam). Things seem to go wrong with all forms of transport. I was
    delayed on the road the other day, adding an hour to a two and a half
    hour
    trip. Planes are often late, especially towards the end of the day.
    Have we
    just got too consumerist, expecting to get exactly what the website
    promises?



    I suppose the big difference is that if you are in your car then you can
    try a different route, stop somewhere for a meal and drink or carry
    these in the car.ÿ Even motorway traffic can be turned around and
    diverted fairly quickly.ÿ Aircraft will normally have food and drink on board and of course cannot stay up in the air so must be brought down.

    The problem with a delays is that there is too long a time before
    putting into action the "this is going to last some time" plan - which
    for cars should involve turning cars on a motorway *far* sooner than
    normally happens, and for trains involves evacuating the train so people
    can make their own way (eg phone for a taxi or a lift from a friend).

    Too often, the emergency services think only of the emergency itself
    (which *of course* should be the first priority) but the plan doesn't
    consider the trapped traffic or trapped passengers.


    I remember hearing a senior traffic police officer being interviewed on
    a local radio station about 20 years ago and he was taking the station
    to task for broadcasting traffic news. He said that it was highly irresponsible to give information that diverted people onto other roads
    which couldn't cope with extra traffic, and that if you were stuck
    behind an accident, even on a single-carriageway road where turning
    round was possible, you should stay put for as long as it takes for
    clear the accident rather than diverting or returning home. The
    presenter very skilfully gave the traffic officer enough rope to hang
    himself by encouraging him to make ever more preposterous statements.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Theo@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 31, 2026 23:36:33
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Sam?s travels and delays over the other side of the channel led me to contemplate whether we are getting too fussy about delays (no criticism
    about Sam). Things seem to go wrong with all forms of transport. I was delayed on the road the other day, adding an hour to a two and a half hour trip. Planes are often late, especially towards the end of the day. Have we just got too consumerist, expecting to get exactly what the website
    promises?

    In the aviation case, it's because airlines schedule tight turnarounds to
    sweat their expensive aircraft. If they added in generous margins then
    there would be recovery time to handle delays, but they don't want to do
    that because it costs money.

    ie it's ultimately their financial decision. We may get a lower price
    ticket out of it, but dynamic pricing says we may not - often they're the
    ones pocketing the benefit. It's only rules like EU261 that keeps them
    honest as far as making delays hit their bottom line.

    There is the idea that different cultures have different ideas of time and punctuality - African time v Swiss time. Perhaps we should be more chilled about journeys taking longer - things happen. But it's a fine line from
    that and the operator taking that as an excuse for cost-cutting and abusing their customers.

    Theo

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 31, 2026 23:02:52
    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Sam?s travels and delays over the other side of the channel led me to
    contemplate whether we are getting too fussy about delays (no criticism
    about Sam). Things seem to go wrong with all forms of transport. I was
    delayed on the road the other day, adding an hour to a two and a half hour >> trip. Planes are often late, especially towards the end of the day. Have we >> just got too consumerist, expecting to get exactly what the website
    promises?

    In the aviation case, it's because airlines schedule tight turnarounds to sweat their expensive aircraft. If they added in generous margins then
    there would be recovery time to handle delays, but they don't want to do
    that because it costs money.

    ie it's ultimately their financial decision. We may get a lower price
    ticket out of it, but dynamic pricing says we may not - often they're the ones pocketing the benefit. It's only rules like EU261 that keeps them honest as far as making delays hit their bottom line.

    There is the idea that different cultures have different ideas of time and punctuality - African time v Swiss time. Perhaps we should be more chilled about journeys taking longer - things happen. But it's a fine line from
    that and the operator taking that as an excuse for cost-cutting and abusing their customers.


    I had a trip to Egypt a couple of years ago. This involved six Egyptair flights, all of which were noticeably late. This was regarded as entirely normal, and not something that needed an apology. In one case (a return
    flight from Abu Simbel to Aswan), they held the fight for us, in
    recognition that they?d got us in very late. Our local guide was confident
    that this would happen. It meant that we walked straight from the coach to
    the plane, with minimal airport security, unlike most Egyptian airport departures.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JMB99@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 07:44:16

    The problem with a delays is that there is too long a time before
    putting into action the "this is going to last some time" plan - which
    for cars should involve turning cars on a motorway *far* sooner than normally happens, and for trains involves evacuating the train so people
    can make their own way (eg phone for a taxi or a lift from a friend).


    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly surprised at
    how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars around to get to
    the diversion.

    They obviously had a pre-prepared plan which they put into action.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JMB99@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 07:54:58
    On 31/08/2026 20:54, NY wrote:
    Too often, the emergency services think only of the emergency itself
    (which *of course* should be the first priority) but the plan doesn't consider the trapped traffic or trapped passengers.


    Most of problems started when road accidents became 'crime scenes'

    There was a TV programme years ago about a fatal accident on the A87
    across Skye - there is NO alternative route so the road being closed all
    day caused major problems.

    The accident investigation unit was based in Inverness and already
    committed to another accident so someone asked why they did not hire
    someone to do the investigation. There are apparently people /
    companies who have all the qualifications / certifications to record / investigate fatal Road Traffic Accidents.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 08:04:03
    In message <wKnlS.452$iQk4.322@fx08.ams1>, at 23:02:52 on Mon, 31 Aug
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    I had a trip to Egypt a couple of years ago. This involved six Egyptair >flights, all of which were noticeably late. This was regarded as entirely >normal, and not something that needed an apology. In one case (a return >flight from Abu Simbel to Aswan), they held the fight for us, in
    recognition that they?d got us in very late. Our local guide was confident >that this would happen. It meant that we walked straight from the coach to >the plane, with minimal airport security, unlike most Egyptian airport >departures.

    Back in the day I was at the HQ of Amstrad's main manufacturing partner,
    on the west coast of Japan. When the time came to take a train back
    to Osaka the company driver said "you are dawdling, too late, we will
    miss the train".

    But my boss insisted we try, and inevitably got to the station to see
    the train pulling out. So we had to wait an hour for the next one.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 08:04:12
    In message <17n*8byPA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 23:36:33 on Mon,
    31 Aug 2026, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:

    There is the idea that different cultures have different ideas of time and >punctuality - African time v Swiss time.

    Back in the day, my English colleagues at Amstrad-Inc were much
    frustrated by what they called "Dallas Time", which means
    consistently arriving for meetings half an hour late.

    ObRail: You could always tell who the Brits were at EU Commission
    meetings in Brussels. They were the ones who arrived half an hour
    late, or more if the first E* from London didn't arrive on time.

    I always travelled the evening before and stayed in a hotel. Which
    meant you could also do EU Parliament breakfasts at 8am, as well as
    the aforementioned consultation meetings at 10am.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 08:08:48
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly surprised
    at how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars around to get
    to the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the passengers.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Certes@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 10:55:29
    On 01/09/2026 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly surprised
    at how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars around to get
    to the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the passengers.

    That seems much faster than usual, based on other reports (which may be
    a biased sample as the more annoying cases get more coverage).

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 15:01:06
    In message <11767eh$1mteq$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:55:29 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
    On 01/09/2026 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep >>2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly
    surprised at how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars >>>around to get to the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the >>passengers.

    That seems much faster than usual, based on other reports (which may be
    a biased sample as the more annoying cases get more coverage).

    Yes, par for the course is usually three hours.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From boltar@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 15:33:11
    On Tue, 1 Sep 2026 10:55:29 +0100
    Certes <Certes@example.org> gabbled:
    On 01/09/2026 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly surprised
    at how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars around to get
    to the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the
    passengers.

    That seems much faster than usual, based on other reports (which may be
    a biased sample as the more annoying cases get more coverage).

    I refused to put up with that bollocks when a train I was on got stuck
    many years ago. Luckily part was still on a platform so I detrained myself after 30 mins using an emergency door open. Its about time the people who
    work on the railways realised its not a trainset and people are not cattle.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Clank@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 19:31:55
    On 31/08/2026 20:08, Tweed wrote:
    Sam?s travels and delays over the other side of the channel led me to contemplate whether we are getting too fussy about delays (no criticism
    about Sam). Things seem to go wrong with all forms of transport. I was delayed on the road the other day, adding an hour to a two and a half hour trip. Planes are often late, especially towards the end of the day. Have we just got too consumerist, expecting to get exactly what the website
    promises?

    A friend of mine went on a 'girls weekend' trip across Europe a couple
    of weeks ago (flew into Brussels / back home from Eindhoven, with
    overnights in Brussels and a Netherlands beach resort and day jollies in Germany) - I warned them not to rely too hard on anything Deutsche Bahn,
    but did they listen..?

    Inevitably, their DB ICE from Cologne wound its way into NL more than 2
    hours late, such that they'd missed the last connection.

    On the bright side, after I'd encouraged her to talk to the train guard
    (or whatever DB call them) as soon as it was obvious there was going to
    be trouble, and not wait until they arrived, they were very helpful;
    they phoned ahead to the station in NL and when they got there they were already ready to put them on an alternative train that got them half-way
    to their destination, and then in a taxi at NS's expense the rest of the
    way, so can't really ask more than that.

    Alas, after I'd assured them once they were in the NL everything would
    be much more reliable - the train they planned on catching to Amsterdam
    next day was, naturally, cancelled... (But rather less of an
    inconvenience given the frequency - just egg on my face.)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 17:40:18
    On Tue, 1 Sep 2026 15:33:11 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
    wrote:

    On Tue, 1 Sep 2026 10:55:29 +0100
    Certes <Certes@example.org> gabbled:
    On 01/09/2026 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly surprised >>>> at how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars around to get >>>> to the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the
    passengers.

    That seems much faster than usual, based on other reports (which may be
    a biased sample as the more annoying cases get more coverage).

    I refused to put up with that bollocks when a train I was on got stuck
    many years ago. Luckily part was still on a platform so I detrained myself >after 30 mins using an emergency door open. Its about time the people who >work on the railways realised its not a trainset and people are not cattle.

    I would be very tempted to do the same.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 21:37:31
    On 01/09/2026 07:54, JMB99 wrote:
    On 31/08/2026 20:54, NY wrote:
    Too often, the emergency services think only of the emergency itself
    (which *of course* should be the first priority) but the plan doesn't
    consider the trapped traffic or trapped passengers.


    Most of problems started when road accidents became 'crime scenes'

    There was a TV programme years ago about a fatal accident on the A87
    across Skye - there is NO alternative route so the road being closed all
    day caused major problems.

    The accident investigation unit was based in Inverness and already
    committed to another accident so someone asked why they did not hire
    someone to do the investigation.ÿ There are apparently people /
    companies who have all the qualifications / certifications to record / investigate fatal Road Traffic Accidents.




    But were any of them anywhere near Inverness when wanted?
    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bevan Price@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 22:42:10
    On 01/09/2026 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly surprised
    at how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars around to get
    to the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the passengers.

    But is there any point in detraining passengers until alternative
    transport is available ? The accident occurred at a minor country road,
    a long walk from any bus route or from the nearest station.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nick Finnigan@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, September 01, 2026 23:51:36
    On 01/09/2026 22:42, Bevan Price wrote:
    On 01/09/2026 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly surprised at >>> how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars around to get to
    the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the
    passengers.

    But is there any point in detraining passengers until alternative transport is available ? The accident occurred at a minor country road, a long walk from any bus route or from the nearest station.

    1.5 miles ?



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, September 02, 2026 06:31:43
    In message <1177grj$273v4$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:42:10 on Tue, 1 Sep
    2026, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
    On 01/09/2026 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <1175s81$1ikcj$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:44:16 on Tue, 1 Sep >>2026, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

    The last time I was stuck on the motorway, I was pleasantly
    surprised at how quickly they arranged a diversion and turned cars >>>around to get to the diversion.

    The supermarket_delivery_van/train bash at a user-worked crossing
    the other day, it reportedly took two hours to start detraining the >>passengers.

    But is there any point in detraining passengers until alternative
    transport is available ? The accident occurred at a minor country road,
    a long walk from any bus route or from the nearest station.

    Passenger to guard; "Can you call me a taxi"
    Guard to Passenger: "You are a taxi".

    Or Uber.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, September 02, 2026 06:41:29

    Nasty Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> posted:



    Inevitably, their DB ICE from Cologne wound its way into NL more than 2 hours late, such that they'd missed the last connection.

    On the bright side, after I'd encouraged her to talk to the train guard
    (or whatever DB call them) as soon as it was obvious there was going to
    be trouble, and not wait until they arrived, they were very helpful;
    they phoned ahead to the station in NL and when they got there they were already ready to put them on an alternative train that got them half-way
    to their destination, and then in a taxi at NS's expense the rest of the way, so can't really ask more than that.

    Besides 50 % delay repay.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)