• Jacobite operating

    From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 06:21:21
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to
    the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs
    every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway journey in the world though.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JMB99@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 08:56:16
    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.



    Yes seen it going past several times.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 13:13:20
    In message <1108bd1$3p36s$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:21:21 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to >the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs >every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in >vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway >journey in the world though.

    It might be somewhere towards the bottom of the to-ten, but an
    AI-generated marketing puff/h/h/h slop won't know that.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ColinR@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 14:55:15
    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway journey in the world though.

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    --
    Colin


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 15:23:03
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:55:15 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to >> the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs
    every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in
    vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >> Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway
    journey in the world though.

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully >accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    For sure, but I think UK railway enthusiasts have long been guilty of over-hyping the scenery in Britain. The Scottish
    Highlands, or Settle-Carlisle line aren't really in the same league as the spectacular Alpine railways of Switzerland,
    Austria and Italy, other similar lines in Canada, New Zealand, France, etc. Japan would be up there, too, but a lot of
    the potentially spectacular lines are in tunnel.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Certes@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 15:23:29
    On 09/06/2026 14:55, ColinR wrote:
    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben
    Nevis to
    the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs
    every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in
    vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale
    now.
    Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway
    journey in the world though.

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    They're a mixture of fact, opinion, and opinion carefully disguised
    as fact, the latter often containing vague claims such as "greatest".

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 15:25:00
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:23:29 +0100, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:

    On 09/06/2026 14:55, ColinR wrote:
    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben
    Nevis to
    the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs >>> every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in >>> vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale
    now.
    Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway >>> journey in the world though.

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully
    accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    They're a mixture of fact, opinion, and opinion carefully disguised
    as fact, the latter often containing vague claims such as "greatest".

    I'm sure they can point at some poll to support such a ranking. But it was probably based on a small sample, many of
    whom are British with limited experience of spectacular railways elsewhere.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 14:45:42
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:55:15 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to >>> the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs >>> every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in >>> vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >>> Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway >>> journey in the world though.

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully
    accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    For sure, but I think UK railway enthusiasts have long been guilty of over-hyping the scenery in Britain. The Scottish
    Highlands, or Settle-Carlisle line aren't really in the same league as
    the spectacular Alpine railways of Switzerland,
    Austria and Italy, other similar lines in Canada, New Zealand, France,
    etc. Japan would be up there, too, but a lot of
    the potentially spectacular lines are in tunnel.


    I found my trip on the Settle to Carlisle to be somewhat underwhelming. I suspect it?s better to on the ground looking at the railway, rather than
    being a passenger. I have similar feelings about steam hauled trips -
    better to be a trackside observer than a passenger.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 15:55:48
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:42 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:55:15 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to
    the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs >>>> every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in >>>> vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >>>> Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service >>>> every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway >>>> journey in the world though.

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully >>> accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    For sure, but I think UK railway enthusiasts have long been guilty of
    over-hyping the scenery in Britain. The Scottish
    Highlands, or Settle-Carlisle line aren't really in the same league as
    the spectacular Alpine railways of Switzerland,
    Austria and Italy, other similar lines in Canada, New Zealand, France,
    etc. Japan would be up there, too, but a lot of
    the potentially spectacular lines are in tunnel.


    I found my trip on the Settle to Carlisle to be somewhat underwhelming. I >suspect it?s better to on the ground looking at the railway, rather than >being a passenger. I have similar feelings about steam hauled trips -
    better to be a trackside observer than a passenger.

    Yes, definitely. Ribblehead Viaduct is much better viewed from the ground below than a train. There's even a convenient
    road that passes underneath.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/bpPKQntv2Ygafzt39

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/tshXUGqf6oJJPuL9A

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 16:29:44
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 06:21:21 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to >the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs >every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in >vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway >journey in the world though.

    I remember from one of my courses that comparisons require caution but superlatives are usually okay.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From hounslow3@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 16:45:07
    On 09/06/2026 15:45, Tweed wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:55:15 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 09/06/2026 07:21, Tweed wrote:
    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to
    the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs >>>> every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in >>>> vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >>>> Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service >>>> every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway >>>> journey in the world though.

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully >>> accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    For sure, but I think UK railway enthusiasts have long been guilty of
    over-hyping the scenery in Britain. The Scottish
    Highlands, or Settle-Carlisle line aren't really in the same league as
    the spectacular Alpine railways of Switzerland,
    Austria and Italy, other similar lines in Canada, New Zealand, France,
    etc. Japan would be up there, too, but a lot of
    the potentially spectacular lines are in tunnel.


    I found my trip on the Settle to Carlisle to be somewhat underwhelming. I suspect it?s better to on the ground looking at the railway, rather than being a passenger. I have similar feelings about steam hauled trips -
    better to be a trackside observer than a passenger.
    Especially as steam trains on heritage lines are restricted to speeds of
    25 miles.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 15:47:43
    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 06:21:21 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to >> the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs
    every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in
    vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >> Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway
    journey in the world though.

    I remember from one of my courses that comparisons require caution but superlatives are usually okay.


    That must have been a tremendous, incredible, beautiful, fantastic,
    amazing, terrific course?..


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JMB99@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 12:57:43
    On 09/06/2026 15:23, Certes wrote:
    They're a mixture of fact, opinion, and opinion carefully disguised
    as fact, the latter often containing vague claims such as "greatest".


    As above, all a matter of personal opinion but the advantage Britain has
    it that we have a great variety of scenery.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 12:52:50
    JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
    On 09/06/2026 15:23, Certes wrote:
    They're a mixture of fact, opinion, and opinion carefully disguised
    as fact, the latter often containing vague claims such as "greatest".


    As above, all a matter of personal opinion but the advantage Britain has
    it that we have a great variety of scenery.

    Ah, the mighty British mountain ranges topped by ancient but melting
    glaciers, the towering British waterfalls, the great British Sandy Desert,
    the huge British volcanic craters, the mighty British Canyon, the vast, featureless British Plains, the endless British Savanna, the lush British Jungles, the stormy waters and unique climate of the British Inland Sea,
    the vast British salt flats ?. No wonder we are judged (by Brits) to have
    the most scenic railway journeys in the world!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 13:22:16

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
    On 09/06/2026 15:23, Certes wrote:
    They're a mixture of fact, opinion, and opinion carefully disguised
    as fact, the latter often containing vague claims such as "greatest".


    As above, all a matter of personal opinion but the advantage Britain has it that we have a great variety of scenery.

    Ah, the mighty British mountain ranges topped by ancient but melting glaciers,

    We are too late to see them.

    the towering British waterfalls, the great British Sandy Desert,
    the huge British volcanic craters,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_Snowdonia_National_Park
    And there is a mountain railway...

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Arthur Figgis@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 18:07:11
    On 09/06/2026 14:55, ColinR wrote:

    And very little, if any, advertising blurb can be considered to be fully accurate! Most are biaised to promote their own brand / product etc!

    Huge if true.



    --
    Arthur Figgis

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sam Wilson@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 20:52:42
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    Sam

    --
    The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
    Spit the dummy to reply

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 21:00:48
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 06:13:28
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug. >> I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?
    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 08:44:53
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug. >>> I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a >> mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:22:44
    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama >>>> and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a >>> mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction. Cristobal, a cement carrier had made
    the crossing on 3rd August as a dress rehearsal for the formal opening
    by the Ancona on the 15th.
    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 09:26:07

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama >>>> and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 09:40:18
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama >>>>> and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a >>>> mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal? >>
    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    As you carefully used the words ?completed canal?, I ignored that crane
    boat, as it actually passed through the Canal in stages, during
    construction, rather than after it was completed. I suspect that it wasn?t
    the only one.

    It?s a bit like asking what was the first train through a new railway
    tunnel ? it was probably the narrow gauge materials and spoil train that
    worked from the TBM during construction, years before any service trains.


    Cristobal, a cement carrier had made
    the crossing on 3rd August as a dress rehearsal for the formal opening
    by the Ancona on the 15th.

    Hence my answer.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 09:42:52
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama >>>>>> and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:53:03
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama >>>>>>> and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.
    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:34:32
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed >>>>> through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make >>>> the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and testing of each section.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 11:50:38
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 06:21:21 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just received an email that the Jacobite is operating again.

    ?Steam has returned to the Road to the Isles. From the foot of Ben Nevis to >>> the silver sands of Morar, the greatest railway journey in the world runs >>> every morning, with afternoons starting Wednesday 10 June.

    Eighty-four miles of Highland line behind a working steam locomotive, in >>> vintage carriages, with First Class and Standard seating both on sale now. >>> Morning service runs every day until 23 October, and afternoon service
    every day until 25 September.?

    I think I might take issue with the claim that it is the greatest railway >>> journey in the world though.

    I remember from one of my courses that comparisons require caution but
    superlatives are usually okay.


    That must have been a tremendous, incredible, beautiful, fantastic,
    amazing, terrific course?..

    Yes it was, it was the greatest course ever run in the history of
    academia.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 13:03:37
    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed >>>>>> through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make >>>>> the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane >>>>> craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.
    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 14:17:34
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed >>>>>>> through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make >>>>>> the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane >>>>>> craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had >> been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and >> testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.

    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.

    This is what the Panama Canal itself says:

    The first complete Panama Canal passage by a self-propelled, oceangoing vessel took place on January 7, 1914. The
    Alexandre La Valley, an old French crane boat that had previously been brought from the Atlantic side now came through
    the Pacific locks.

    https://pancanal.com/en/end-of-the-construction/

    Apparently the Gatun Locks were first fully operated on 26 September 2013, so we can expect that the Alexandre de Valley
    probably went all the way through them soon after. So its transit all the way from the Atlantic to the Pacific probably
    took about three months.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 14:34:35
    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >>>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed >>>>>>>> through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make >>>>>>> the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane >>>>>>> craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had >>> been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened. >>> That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and >>> testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.

    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.


    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the
    first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly
    worded.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 15:02:46
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >>>>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed >>>>>>>>> through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane >>>>>>>> craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had >>>> been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened. >>>> That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and >>>> testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.

    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.


    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the >first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly >worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014, and this was a ship involved in the
    Canal's construction, so it doesn't count anyway.

    This is what Wiki says:

    Alexandre La Valley (a floating crane built by Lobnitz & Company and launched in 1887) was the first self-propelled
    vessel to transit the canal from ocean to ocean. This vessel crossed the canal from the Atlantic in stages during
    construction, finally reaching the Pacific on 7 January 1914. SS Cristobal (a cargo and passenger ship built by Maryland
    Steel, and launched in 1902 as SS Tremont) on 3 August 1914, was the first ship to transit the canal from ocean to
    ocean.

    I believe the Cristobal was carrying a commercial cargo and non-construction passengers, so it counts as a user ship
    (though it was actually owned by Panama Railroad Steamship Line), rather than a construction vessel. A few days later,
    its sister ship (with the same owner), Ancona, made the first public, ceremonial crossing, with a 200 VIP passenger
    list, so I guess Cristobal's crossing was the company's dry-run for the official opening day ceremonial transit.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 14:07:33

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >>>>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened. >>>> That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.

    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.


    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the >first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly >worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014

    I guess it was. Maybe it was widened later.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 15:11:48
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:07:33 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >> >>>>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.

    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took. >> >>

    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the
    first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly
    worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014

    I guess it was. Maybe it was widened later.

    No, the original Canal channels weren't widened after construction. Even the lock gates are still the same.

    But lots of things might not have been finished by January that were completed by August. For example. the mules may not
    have been in service by then? Or perhaps only one channel was operational in January? Maybe the signalling wasn't in
    place? Maybe most of the pilots and linesmen weren't trained by then?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 14:19:49

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:07:33 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >> >>>>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old. >> >>
    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took. >> >>

    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the >> >first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly
    worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014

    I guess it was. Maybe it was widened later.

    No, the original Canal channels weren't widened after construction.

    In the first decade after the transfer to Panamanian control,
    the Panama Canal Authority (ACP) invested nearly US$1 billion
    in widening and modernizing the canal, with the aim of increasing
    capacity by 20 percent.[139] The ACP cites a number of major
    improvements, including the widening and straightening of the
    Culebra Cut to reduce restrictions on passing vessels, the [...]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Efficiency_and_maintenance

    The Gaillard Cut and the channel through Gatun Lake were widened
    to at least 280 m (920 ft) on the straight portions and at least
    366 m (1,200 ft) on the bends.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Third_set_of_locks_project_(expansion)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sam Wilson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 14:35:50
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug. >> I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.

    Let?s ignore dredging and the depth of the dig, just the length. The Caledonian is about 1/3 constructed, the remainder being 4 lochs. The
    Panama seems to be something similar, though the lake didn?t exist before
    the canal. The Suez?s Bitter Lakes seem to be about 25 miles long out of
    120 miles total, so the canal is nearly 80% constructed (and I hadn?t
    realised before that the Bitter Lakes were dry lake beds until the canal
    was built, so only the Caledonian uses existing lakes significantly).

    Sam

    --
    The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
    Spit the dummy to reply

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graeme Wall@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 16:21:11
    On 11/06/2026 15:02, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >>>>>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane >>>>>>>>> craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened. >>>>> That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.

    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.


    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the
    first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly
    worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014, and this was a ship involved in the
    Canal's construction, so it doesn't count anyway.

    This is what Wiki says:

    Alexandre La Valley (a floating crane built by Lobnitz & Company and launched in 1887) was the first self-propelled
    vessel to transit the canal from ocean to ocean. This vessel crossed the canal from the Atlantic in stages during
    construction, finally reaching the Pacific on 7 January 1914. SS Cristobal (a cargo and passenger ship built by Maryland
    Steel, and launched in 1902 as SS Tremont) on 3 August 1914, was the first ship to transit the canal from ocean to
    ocean.

    I believe the Cristobal was carrying a commercial cargo and non-construction passengers, so it counts as a user ship
    (though it was actually owned by Panama Railroad Steamship Line), rather than a construction vessel. A few days later,
    its sister ship (with the same owner), Ancona, made the first public, ceremonial crossing, with a 200 VIP passenger
    list, so I guess Cristobal's crossing was the company's dry-run for the official opening day ceremonial transit.

    Apparently a tug, Mariner, took two barges all the way through before
    the Cristobal but with 'no blowing of whistles or any display of triumph'!

    I've found a copy of McCullough's book, The Path Between the Seas, which
    is a much more comprehensive account of the construction of the canal.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 16:08:09
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging...

    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug. >>> I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a >> mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.

    Let?s ignore dredging and the depth of the dig, just the length. The Caledonian is about 1/3 constructed, the remainder being 4 lochs. The
    Panama seems to be something similar, though the lake didn?t exist before
    the canal. The Suez?s Bitter Lakes seem to be about 25 miles long out of
    120 miles total, so the canal is nearly 80% constructed (and I hadn?t realised before that the Bitter Lakes were dry lake beds until the canal
    was built, so only the Caledonian uses existing lakes significantly).


    Google finds:

    Over 262 million cubic yards (approx. 204.9 million cubic meters) of earth
    and rock were excavated by the Americans to complete the original Panama
    Canal. When adding the useful dirt dug during the earlier French attempts,
    the total excavation exceeded 279 million cubic yards (about 213 million
    cubic meters).

    For the original construction of the Suez Canal (1859?1869), workers
    excavated approximately 75 million cubic meters (98 million cubic yards) of sand, rock, and sediment. Of this total, about 600,000 cubic meters were
    dry excavation, while the remaining 2 billion cubic feet were dredged from underwater.

    More than 300,000 tonnes of earth and stone were dug up to construct the Caledonian Canal's 29 locks ? enough to cover a full size football pitch
    with a 25m deep pile of rubble. [I think 1 tonne of earth is about 0.7 cu
    m, so that?s a bit over 200,000 cu m.]

    Regarding lake sizes:

    Lake Gatun is 164 square miles, the Suez Great Bitter Lake 75 square miles,
    and Loch Ness 22 square miles.

    And maximum vessel sizes (today):

    Suezmax
    Length 400 m (1,300 ft) (maximum)
    Beam 77.5 metres (254 ft) (maximum); 50 m (164 ft) (at 20.1 m draft)
    Height 68 m (223 ft) (maximum)
    Draft 20.1 m (66 ft) (maximum)

    New Panamax
    Length 366 m (1,201 ft)
    Beam 51.25 m (168 ft)
    Height 57.91 m (190 ft)
    Draft 15.2 m (50 ft)

    Caledonian Canal
    Length 45.72 metres (150 ft)
    Beam 10.67 metres (35 ft)
    Draft 4.1 metres (15.5 ft)
    Air draft 35 metres (115 ft)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Marland@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 21:05:43
    fdRecliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
    On 09/06/2026 15:23, Certes wrote:
    They're a mixture of fact, opinion, and opinion carefully disguised
    as fact, the latter often containing vague claims such as "greatest".


    As above, all a matter of personal opinion but the advantage Britain has
    it that we have a great variety of scenery.

    Ah, the mighty British mountain ranges topped by ancient but melting glaciers, the towering British waterfalls, the great British Sandy Desert, the huge British volcanic craters, the mighty British Canyon, the vast, featureless British Plains, the endless British Savanna, the lush British Jungles, the stormy waters and unique climate of the British Inland Sea,
    the vast British salt flats ?. No wonder we are judged (by Brits) to have
    the most scenic railway journeys in the world!


    All these ?most scenic? journeys largely depend on what you comparing then with.
    Clearly the Settle and Carlisle or the Highland line offer different Vistas than what most people view on their normal journeys around much of the UK
    which largely has pleasant landscapes of great contrasts in a small geographical area . That same Geography though if measured on things like longest,highest ,biggest will be usurped by examples elsewhere . That
    doesn?t make a journey on say the GWR route on the Devon Coast less
    pleasant than it seems to a holidaymaker whose normal commute is through
    the golf courses of Surrey but other countries have scenic coastal routes
    as well such as the Amalfi coast in Italy.
    I got back this Morning from a Week in the Occitanie region of France,
    chosen as there are enough places of interest for the missis as well as
    Rail interest to me , one of the lines I have been meaning to do for some
    time is Le Train Jeune which travels 63km across the Pyrenees through
    pasture and then mountain country and down to pasture again . Its highest station is 1593M above sea level so much higher than our scenic routes and surrounded by much higher mountains but doesn?t mean I would not also enjoy
    a Journey to Mallaig again.

    The Le Train Jeune or Little Yellow Train is quite interesting , a metre
    gauge electric line whose first section opened in 1902 with a completion in
    the 1920?s following delays caused by WW1 and still largely using stock
    that originated then. As it was in the fairly early days of
    electrification the promoters largely took the technology of the newly
    opened Paris Metro and built Metre Gauge stock based on it with a top
    contact third rail at 850Volts. And so it remains today and in winter runs through snow covered tracks , they even have a third rail powered
    snowplough.
    Fencing compared to our 3rd rail network is very basic and non existent in places .
    Some cars they didn?t have in the 1900?s but have now are the open ones
    from which you get very good views and in which we travelled. Still part of SNCF our Occitaine Railway pass which costs about ?10 a day was valid for
    the journey.
    More details on link <https://www.tourism-mediterraneanpyrenees.com/yellow-train>

    Less well known is what they call the Red Train on a route that once linked
    the coast route near Perpignan to Carcassone via some villages that were before decent roads and cars came along were quite remote. A good section
    at Carcassonne end closed in the 1950?s but the passenger service to Axat survived into the 1970?s. Freight mainly stone survived until the
    1980s-90?s. A combination of local rail enthusiasts and local government formed a company to reintroduce a passenger service for tourism . No steam
    but operated by some nicely restored 1960?s Diesel Railcars for part of the journey ,you then change to a train formed mainly of open top or part
    covered ?coaches? for the journey through the narrow rocky valley section
    of the line hauled by a small diesel loco.It stops at the top for a few
    hours so you can eat or explore the small town of Axat. We could have
    returned to Carcassonne where we were staying direct as even though the Railway onward closed in the 50?s a bus still runs a couple of times a day
    and our Rail pass would have been valid on it.
    However we did return on the Train as we had paid for the round trip (rail
    pass not valid on the preserved line ). Have to say it was a very friendly operation with a few paid employees and some volunteers the driver of our
    train being one . The door to the drivers cab of the railcar is open and
    they allow two people to sit alongside and as the journey takes a couple of hours there is plenty of opportunity the rear cab is also left open and a couple of more people can fit in with the drivers seat being available .
    The track is still mainly jointed double-champignon *or as we call it
    Bullhead.
    If you ever end up in the area I would recommend it.

    <https://931d2bcf-6a68-4649-a191-6d19057f3a1c.filesusr.com/ugd/351d61_840615decd2a44fc8a80af36e2f4cb57.pdf>

    *Saw vast numbers of sidings on SNCF still laid with it , most appeared
    disused but were still wired up
    with the 1500VDC catenary.

    GH

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 07:50:31

    Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> posted:


    The Le Train Jeune

    Jaune. Otherwise it would be Young Train.

    or Little Yellow Train is quite interesting , a metre
    gauge electric line whose first section opened in 1902 with a completion in the 1920?s following delays caused by WW1 and still largely using stock
    that originated then. As it was in the fairly early days of
    electrification the promoters largely took the technology of the newly opened Paris Metro and built Metre Gauge stock based on it with a top contact third rail at 850Volts. And so it remains today and in winter runs through snow covered tracks , they even have a third rail powered
    snowplough.
    Fencing compared to our 3rd rail network is very basic and non existent in places .
    Some cars they didn?t have in the 1900?s but have now are the open ones
    from which you get very good views and in which we travelled. Still part of SNCF our Occitaine Railway pass which costs about ?10 a day was valid for
    the journey.
    More details on link <https://www.tourism-mediterraneanpyrenees.com/yellow-train>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ColinR@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 11:55:45
    On 11/06/2026 15:19, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:07:33 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old. >>>>>>
    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took. >>>>>>

    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the >>>>> first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly >>>>> worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014

    I guess it was. Maybe it was widened later.

    No, the original Canal channels weren't widened after construction.

    In the first decade after the transfer to Panamanian control,
    the Panama Canal Authority (ACP) invested nearly US$1 billion
    in widening and modernizing the canal, with the aim of increasing
    capacity by 20 percent.[139] The ACP cites a number of major
    improvements, including the widening and straightening of the
    Culebra Cut to reduce restrictions on passing vessels, the [...]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Efficiency_and_maintenance

    The Gaillard Cut and the channel through Gatun Lake were widened
    to at least 280 m (920 ft) on the straight portions and at least
    366 m (1,200 ft) on the bends.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Third_set_of_locks_project_(expansion)

    Interesting links, but completely irrelevant to the thread which is
    about the first transit when the canal opened, not changes almost a
    century later - "Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through
    the completed canal?"

    --
    Colin


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 11:06:34

    ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 15:19, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:07:33 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old. >>>>>>
    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.


    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the >>>>> first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly >>>>> worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014

    I guess it was. Maybe it was widened later.

    No, the original Canal channels weren't widened after construction.

    In the first decade after the transfer to Panamanian control,
    the Panama Canal Authority (ACP) invested nearly US$1 billion
    in widening and modernizing the canal, with the aim of increasing
    capacity by 20 percent.[139] The ACP cites a number of major
    improvements, including the widening and straightening of the
    Culebra Cut to reduce restrictions on passing vessels, the [...]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Efficiency_and_maintenance

    The Gaillard Cut and the channel through Gatun Lake were widened
    to at least 280 m (920 ft) on the straight portions and at least
    366 m (1,200 ft) on the bends.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Third_set_of_locks_project_(expansion)

    Interesting links, but completely irrelevant to the thread

    You failed to read. I am used to it but still...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ColinR@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 12:16:07
    On 12/06/2026 12:06, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

    ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 15:19, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:07:33 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old. >>>>>>>>
    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.


    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the >>>>>>> first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly >>>>>>> worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014

    I guess it was. Maybe it was widened later.

    No, the original Canal channels weren't widened after construction.

    In the first decade after the transfer to Panamanian control,
    the Panama Canal Authority (ACP) invested nearly US$1 billion
    in widening and modernizing the canal, with the aim of increasing
    capacity by 20 percent.[139] The ACP cites a number of major
    improvements, including the widening and straightening of the
    Culebra Cut to reduce restrictions on passing vessels, the [...]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Efficiency_and_maintenance

    The Gaillard Cut and the channel through Gatun Lake were widened
    to at least 280 m (920 ft) on the straight portions and at least
    366 m (1,200 ft) on the bends.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Third_set_of_locks_project_(expansion)

    Interesting links, but completely irrelevant to the thread

    You failed to read. I am used to it but still...

    By snipping out my reasoning you are manipulating things to suit
    yourself, effectively lying.

    --
    Colin


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 11:17:35

    ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:

    On 12/06/2026 12:06, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

    ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 15:19, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:07:33 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:34:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 14:17, Recliner wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:03:37 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 11:34, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    On 11/06/2026 10:42, Recliner wrote:
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> posted:

    On 11/06/2026 09:44, Recliner wrote:
    Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/06/2026 22:00, Recliner wrote:
    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    the mighty British Canyon,

    The Caledonian Canal indeed needed digging... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    There?s a relatively small proportion of the Caledonian Canal that was dug.
    I could probably work out the relation to the dug lengths of the Panama
    and Suez canals.

    The Panama Canal would be far greater. They basically had to cut through a
    mountain. They also created a huge lake and built a large dam.


    Pub quiz time, what was the first ship to pass through the completed canal?

    With Google?s help, SS Cristobal? That ignores the ships that passed
    through during the construction phases.


    According to "Canal Across A Continent", the first steam vessel to make
    the passage was a French ship, Alexander de Valley, which was a crane
    craft involved in the construction.

    How many days did it take for the full crossing?


    It was probably measured in years, not days.


    One day, 7th January 1914.

    No, that was the day it finally completed the multi-stage journey that had
    been happening for months or years, as the various sections were opened.
    That construction vessel had been involved in the routine construction and
    testing of each section.


    Not according to the author but then the book is around 50 years old.

    What exact words does he use? For example, he might have said something like, "On 7th January 1914 the Alexandre de
    Valley completed its crossing". That doesn't tell you how long it took.


    Exact wording is: '?the French crane-boat "Alexander La Valley" was the
    first steam vessel to make the passage on January 7, 1914.' So badly >>>>>>> worded.

    Yes, it's ambiguous. In any case, the Canal wasn't completed by January 2014

    I guess it was. Maybe it was widened later.

    No, the original Canal channels weren't widened after construction.

    In the first decade after the transfer to Panamanian control,
    the Panama Canal Authority (ACP) invested nearly US$1 billion
    in widening and modernizing the canal, with the aim of increasing
    capacity by 20 percent.[139] The ACP cites a number of major
    improvements, including the widening and straightening of the
    Culebra Cut to reduce restrictions on passing vessels, the [...]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Efficiency_and_maintenance

    The Gaillard Cut and the channel through Gatun Lake were widened
    to at least 280 m (920 ft) on the straight portions and at least
    366 m (1,200 ft) on the bends.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#Third_set_of_locks_project_(expansion)

    Interesting links, but completely irrelevant to the thread

    You failed to read. I am used to it but still...

    By snipping out my reasoning you are manipulating

    You may try to read the thread cited hereabove.
    Not sure you have chances to succeed.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)