• Re: Ecojet Airlines liquidated

    From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 12:00:43
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    "With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally."

    Not in the UK it hasn't.

    Not everyone is as parochial as you.


    I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.



    Robots could soon be delivering your pizza

    https://economist.com/business/2026/06/07/robots-could-soon-be-delivering-your-pizza
    from The Economist

    If you live in San Francisco, you may often get a glimpse of the future?commuting in a self-driving taxi, say. In Milton Keynes? Not so
    much. But the English city, halfway between Oxford and Cambridge and best
    known for an abundance of roundabouts, is the place to go if you want to
    see a world without delivery drivers. It is one of the largest markets for Starship Technologies, an Estonian startup which claims to have cracked the problem of getting robots to deliver groceries more cheaply than people
    can.

    Designers of delivery robots face challenges familiar to those that
    confront developers of robotaxis. Starship has had to build a sensor array
    that its six-wheeled couriers, each the size of a beer cooler, can use to
    guide themselves along the pavements come rain or shine. And that hardware
    must feed into an artificial-intelligence model which can autonomously take
    the best route, and carry on even if the connection to a data centre is cut off.

    In some ways, though, delivery robots have it easy. With a 35kg robot travelling at 6kph (4mph) tops, safety is less of a worry than it is with a two-tonne car going at 110kph on a motorway. And a slightly bumpy ride
    won?t hurt a pizza.

    That said, whereas robotaxi firms can leave car design to carmakers (and
    most do), robocouriers have no such option. Starship has by now created
    several generations of vehicles. As a result, it has enough data to
    optimise newer models for resilience and repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, a co-founder (who also co-founded
    Skype, an internet video-call service bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in
    2011). Starship?s latest batch of robots charge wirelessly, for instance,
    which is speedier and reduces wear on the charging ports.

    After 12 years of such incremental improvements, Mr Heinla says, the cost
    of each delivery is now ?significantly less? than that of paying a human to
    do it. Starship is aiming for a cost of less than œ1 ($1.34) per delivery. ?It?s not quite there yet, but not very far away,? Mr Heinla says.

    In 2018 the company had 127 robots, driving 116,000 kilometres in the year.
    By 2025 it had 2,414 robots, covering 5.2m kilometres. Along the way, the company says, it has reduced human interventionsÿper kilometre by seven-eighths. Even so, at its scale rare problems, such as a robot failing
    in the middle of a street, add up. (The solution? A simple back-up computer designed purely to get it to the other side.)

    The little six-wheelers might soon change how cities look. Could they also
    make people feel a little more kindly about AI? Probably not, especially if
    you are an out-of-work delivery driver. Then again, in Finland, Starship?s biggest market, a director of the startup?s supermarket partner has had to
    urge sympathetic passers-by not to lift the robots out of snowdrifts when
    they get stuck?lest they hurt themselves coming to the rescue. þ

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 12:18:22
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
    In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    "With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally."

    Not in the UK it hasn't.

    Not everyone is as parochial as you.


    I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are
    more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.



    Robots could soon be delivering your pizza

    https://economist.com/business/2026/06/07/robots-could-soon-be-delivering-your-pizza
    from The Economist

    If you live in San Francisco, you may often get a glimpse of the future?commuting in a self-driving taxi, say. In Milton Keynes? Not so
    much. But the English city, halfway between Oxford and Cambridge and best known for an abundance of roundabouts, is the place to go if you want to
    see a world without delivery drivers. It is one of the largest markets for Starship Technologies, an Estonian startup which claims to have cracked the problem of getting robots to deliver groceries more cheaply than people
    can.

    Designers of delivery robots face challenges familiar to those that
    confront developers of robotaxis. Starship has had to build a sensor array that its six-wheeled couriers, each the size of a beer cooler, can use to guide themselves along the pavements come rain or shine. And that hardware must feed into an artificial-intelligence model which can autonomously take the best route, and carry on even if the connection to a data centre is cut off.

    In some ways, though, delivery robots have it easy. With a 35kg robot travelling at 6kph (4mph) tops, safety is less of a worry than it is with a two-tonne car going at 110kph on a motorway. And a slightly bumpy ride
    won?t hurt a pizza.

    That said, whereas robotaxi firms can leave car design to carmakers (and
    most do), robocouriers have no such option. Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a result, it has enough data to
    optimise newer models for resilience and repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, a co-founder (who also co-founded
    Skype, an internet video-call service bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces wear on the charging ports.

    After 12 years of such incremental improvements, Mr Heinla says, the cost
    of each delivery is now ?significantly less? than that of paying a human to do it. Starship is aiming for a cost of less than œ1 ($1.34) per delivery. ?It?s not quite there yet, but not very far away,? Mr Heinla says.

    In 2018 the company had 127 robots, driving 116,000 kilometres in the year. By 2025 it had 2,414 robots, covering 5.2m kilometres. Along the way, the company says, it has reduced human interventionsÿper kilometre by seven-eighths. Even so, at its scale rare problems, such as a robot failing in the middle of a street, add up. (The solution? A simple back-up computer designed purely to get it to the other side.)

    The little six-wheelers might soon change how cities look. Could they also make people feel a little more kindly about AI? Probably not, especially if you are an out-of-work delivery driver. Then again, in Finland, Starship?s biggest market, a director of the startup?s supermarket partner has had to urge sympathetic passers-by not to lift the robots out of snowdrifts when they get stuck?lest they hurt themselves coming to the rescue. þ


    Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d hate to see
    our pavements become infested with these things,


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 13:48:31
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    I ordered a second Uber, which charged me a much more affordable around
    œ3 for the trip from where I was waiting to a restaurant about a mile
    away.

    Having spent probably three full-time-equivalent hours getting a œ120
    refund out of PayPal for an item that wasn't just not delivered,
    according to the tracking it was never picked up from the convenience
    store the vendor allegedly dropped it off at, I'm not sure I have the
    energy to pursue Uber for a refund. Which is of course exactly what they
    are betting on.

    [1] My College at Cambridge doesn't have step-free access off the
    pavement, and also has one of those mini-doors within a door, which
    the robot wouldn't fit through anyway.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 13:51:11
    In message <1106bue$3794n$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:18:22 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

    Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d hate to see >our pavements become infested with these things,

    Oh dear, come to Cambridge, the Deliveroo and Just-Eat moped drivers are
    often to be seen mowing pedestrians down.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 13:43:20
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 13:45:06
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106bue$3794n$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:18:22 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

    Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d hate to see >> our pavements become infested with these things,

    Oh dear, come to Cambridge, the Deliveroo and Just-Eat moped drivers are often to be seen mowing pedestrians down.

    Well we don?t want to add to that with 6 wheel trundling boxes do we?


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 13:57:30
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain why Uber is reluctant to use it.


    Uber provides a map showing the planned pickup point. It?s often not
    exactly where you?re standing, because of stopping restrictions. One
    assumes Roland?s claimed five minutes walk was actually no more than 50
    metres.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 15:19:39
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 15:25:40
    In message <eTzVR.8315$mXJ2.4919@fx07.ams1>, at 13:57:30 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>
    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >> why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    Uber provides a map showing the planned pickup point. It?s often not
    exactly where you?re standing, because of stopping restrictions.

    There were no stopping restrictions, so once again you are completely
    and utterly wrong.

    One assumes Roland?s claimed five minutes walk was actually no more
    than 50 metres.

    It was 300m including a rather steep slope down to a canal towpath.

    So once again you are completely and utterly wrong.

    Are you mainly here to make a complete fool of yourself? Because you succeeding admirably.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 15:21:14
    In message <1106h11$38qtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:45:06 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106bue$3794n$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:18:22 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

    Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d
    hate to see
    our pavements become infested with these things,

    Oh dear, come to Cambridge, the Deliveroo and Just-Eat moped drivers are
    often to be seen mowing pedestrians down.

    Well we don?t want to add to that with 6 wheel trundling boxes do we?

    They'd be hopelessly outnumbered. The pavements in the city centre are absolutely full of pedestrians and the delivery robots wouldn't stand a chance.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 14:57:29
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>
    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >> why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 16:24:28
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces >>>>> wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go >>>> out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza >>>> back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>>
    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules."

    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 16:25:30
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 15:25:40 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <eTzVR.8315$mXJ2.4919@fx07.ams1>, at 13:57:30 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces >>>>> wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go >>>> out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza >>>> back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>>
    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    Uber provides a map showing the planned pickup point. It?s often not >>exactly where you?re standing, because of stopping restrictions.

    There were no stopping restrictions, so once again you are completely
    and utterly wrong.

    One assumes Roland?s claimed five minutes walk was actually no more
    than 50 metres.

    It was 300m including a rather steep slope down to a canal towpath.

    So once again you are completely and utterly wrong.

    Are you mainly here to make a complete fool of yourself? Because you >succeeding admirably.

    A genuine LOL moment!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 17:17:58
    In message <1106l8p$3a6kt$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:57:29 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    Or perhaps not. No cites, no evidence, just unsubstantiated arm-waving.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 17:19:34
    In message <hmnd2l5trio37jruusm5ul0no1bf6iudv8@4ax.com>, at 16:25:30 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Are you mainly here to make a complete fool of yourself? Because you >>succeeding admirably.

    A genuine LOL moment!

    Indeed, and we are all laughing at you.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 17:19:08
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces >>>>>> wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
    individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go >>>>> out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza >>>>> back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>>>
    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
    at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules."

    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or prohibition on non-buses stopping.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 17:43:31
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 17:17:58 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <1106l8p$3a6kt$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:57:29 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    Or perhaps not. No cites, no evidence, just unsubstantiated arm-waving.

    Inspired by you, perhaps?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 18:07:56
    In message <79sd2lhevt7gq3f0o629oenr2fmkeqmo95@4ax.com>, at 17:43:31 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 17:17:58 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <1106l8p$3a6kt$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:57:29 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it
    would explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    Or perhaps not. No cites, no evidence, just unsubstantiated arm-waving.

    Inspired by you, perhaps?

    There you go again, why don't you just put a sock in it?
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Martin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 21:41:37
    On 08/06/2026 13:00, Recliner wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
    In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    "With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally."

    Not in the UK it hasn't.

    Not everyone is as parochial as you.


    I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are
    more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.



    Robots could soon be delivering your pizza.

    Prolonged snip.

    What no one is explaining, particularly the polidiots, is what happens
    to the class of humans being put out of work by these devices.

    The same applies to AI.

    Perhaps AI and robots should be taxed to pay dole money for those displaced!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Martin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 21:45:47
    On 08/06/2026 13:48, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
    result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti
    Heinla, a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-
    call service bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s
    latest batch of robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is
    speedier and reduces wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    I ordered a second Uber, which charged me a much more affordable around
    œ3 for the trip from where I was waiting to a restaurant about a mile away.

    Having spent probably three full-time-equivalent hours getting a œ120
    refund out of PayPal for an item that wasn't just not delivered,
    according to the tracking it was never picked up from the convenience
    store the vendor allegedly dropped it off at, I'm not sure I have the
    energy to pursue Uber for a refund. Which is of course exactly what they
    are betting on.

    [1] My College at Cambridge doesn't have step-free access off the
    ÿÿÿ pavement, and also has one of those mini-doors within a door, which
    ÿÿÿ the robot wouldn't fit through anyway.

    My delivery would involve use of a keypad at about 5 feet above ground
    to enter and 4 feet to exit. How is that going to happen and how is it
    going to find its way around beyond that point?!?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Martin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 21:48:01
    On 08/06/2026 13:18, Tweed wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
    In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    "With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally." >>>>>
    Not in the UK it hasn't.

    Not everyone is as parochial as you.


    I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are >>> more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >>> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.



    Robots could soon be delivering your pizza

    https://economist.com/business/2026/06/07/robots-could-soon-be-delivering-your-pizza
    from The Economist

    If you live in San Francisco, you may often get a glimpse of the
    future?commuting in a self-driving taxi, say. In Milton Keynes? Not so
    much. But the English city, halfway between Oxford and Cambridge and best
    known for an abundance of roundabouts, is the place to go if you want to
    see a world without delivery drivers. It is one of the largest markets for >> Starship Technologies, an Estonian startup which claims to have cracked the >> problem of getting robots to deliver groceries more cheaply than people
    can.

    Designers of delivery robots face challenges familiar to those that
    confront developers of robotaxis. Starship has had to build a sensor array >> that its six-wheeled couriers, each the size of a beer cooler, can use to
    guide themselves along the pavements come rain or shine. And that hardware >> must feed into an artificial-intelligence model which can autonomously take >> the best route, and carry on even if the connection to a data centre is cut >> off.

    In some ways, though, delivery robots have it easy. With a 35kg robot
    travelling at 6kph (4mph) tops, safety is less of a worry than it is with a >> two-tonne car going at 110kph on a motorway. And a slightly bumpy ride
    won?t hurt a pizza.

    That said, whereas robotaxi firms can leave car design to carmakers (and
    most do), robocouriers have no such option. Starship has by now created
    several generations of vehicles. As a result, it has enough data to
    optimise newer models for resilience and repairability. Gains can come from >> unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, a co-founder (who also co-founded
    Skype, an internet video-call service bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in
    2011). Starship?s latest batch of robots charge wirelessly, for instance,
    which is speedier and reduces wear on the charging ports.

    After 12 years of such incremental improvements, Mr Heinla says, the cost
    of each delivery is now ?significantly less? than that of paying a human to >> do it. Starship is aiming for a cost of less than œ1 ($1.34) per delivery. >> ?It?s not quite there yet, but not very far away,? Mr Heinla says.

    In 2018 the company had 127 robots, driving 116,000 kilometres in the year. >> By 2025 it had 2,414 robots, covering 5.2m kilometres. Along the way, the
    company says, it has reduced human interventionsÿper kilometre by
    seven-eighths. Even so, at its scale rare problems, such as a robot failing >> in the middle of a street, add up. (The solution? A simple back-up computer >> designed purely to get it to the other side.)

    The little six-wheelers might soon change how cities look. Could they also >> make people feel a little more kindly about AI? Probably not, especially if >> you are an out-of-work delivery driver. Then again, in Finland, Starship?s >> biggest market, a director of the startup?s supermarket partner has had to >> urge sympathetic passers-by not to lift the robots out of snowdrifts when
    they get stuck?lest they hurt themselves coming to the rescue. þ


    Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d hate to see our pavements become infested with these things,

    What on earth gives you that idea? Try walking around Cardiff at any
    day of the day or night.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 21:29:24
    Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
    On 08/06/2026 13:00, Recliner wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
    In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    "With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally." >>>>>
    Not in the UK it hasn't.

    Not everyone is as parochial as you.


    I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are >>> more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >>> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.



    Robots could soon be delivering your pizza.

    Prolonged snip.

    What no one is explaining, particularly the polidiots, is what happens
    to the class of humans being put out of work by these devices.

    The same applies to AI.

    Perhaps AI and robots should be taxed to pay dole money for those displaced!


    What I don?t understand is why the government thinks that robotaxis will be
    a big boost to the economy. They will replace local drivers with imported technology, with the eventual profits (if any) going to US or Chinese companies. The cars may well be safer, but the service will be worse for
    anyone who needs help from a human being, or if the driver needs to access
    a button.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mark Goodge@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 22:38:00
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to
    use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.

    Oddly enough, a local taxi driver would probably be willing to do it, on the grounds that he knows the area and knows what he can reasonably get away
    with without risking a ticket. But I wouldn't blame someone without that
    level of knowledge deciding not to take the risk. Particularly given that,
    if he is actually ticketed for it, it's potentially a licence-losing act.

    Mark

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sam Wilson@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 21:50:53
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <hmnd2l5trio37jruusm5ul0no1bf6iudv8@4ax.com>, at 16:25:30 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Are you mainly here to make a complete fool of yourself? Because you
    succeeding admirably.

    A genuine LOL moment!

    Indeed, and we are all laughing at you.

    I?m getting traumatic flashbacks of primary school playground taunts.

    ?You?re a big poo!?
    ?No, you?re a big poo!?
    ?You big poo!|
    ?Big poo!?
    ?Poo!?
    ?Poo!?
    <fisticuffs>

    Sam

    --
    The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
    Spit the dummy to reply

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 21:59:21
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >> why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to
    use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.

    Oddly enough, a local taxi driver would probably be willing to do it, on the grounds that he knows the area and knows what he can reasonably get away
    with without risking a ticket. But I wouldn't blame someone without that level of knowledge deciding not to take the risk. Particularly given that,
    if he is actually ticketed for it, it's potentially a licence-losing act.

    When it?s a pickup, I think Uber only nominates unambiguously legal, safe places. Drivers are notified if the fare is waiting at the nominated map location or not. For example, I once called an Uber in the rain. I had a
    dry place where I could shelter while I waited, about 50m round the corner.
    I moved to the exact nominated pickup point a minute or so before the ETA,
    but the driver wasn?t expecting to see me already there, as his app still showed me waiting round the corner.

    Drivers presumably have more discretion about the exact drop-off points.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JMB99@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 09:01:14
    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 13:23:52
    In message <o7de2lprc343cg1a3tqajngvmnsktn99j2@4ax.com>, at 22:38:00 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
    remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> >wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to
    use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.

    Indeed, but the pickup point I requested ***IS NOT ILLEGAL*** !!!!

    Oddly enough, a local taxi driver

    Most Uber drivers are locals, too.

    would probably be willing to do it, on the
    grounds that he knows the area and knows what he can reasonably get away
    with without risking a ticket.

    Who is going to write such a ticket in the suburbs of a city at 7pm in
    the evening?

    But I wouldn't blame someone without that level of knowledge deciding
    not to take the risk. Particularly given that, if he is actually
    ticketed for it, it's potentially a licence-losing act.

    You appear to believe there's no limit to the stupidity of Uber drivers.

    Hmm.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 12:40:23
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <o7de2lprc343cg1a3tqajngvmnsktn99j2@4ax.com>, at 22:38:00 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
    remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to
    use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.

    Indeed, but the pickup point I requested ***IS NOT ILLEGAL*** !!!!

    Legality doesn?t matter. If Uber have a blanket policy of not picking up at
    bus stop then that is what the app will enforce. Since it is illegal to
    pick up at some bus stops, and bus stops can be picked out from the OS
    data, but not their picking up legal status, it would seem rational for
    Uber to impose a conservative we are not going to pick up at bus stops. On
    the other hand that might not be their policy and they are just singling
    you out for special treatment. Uber has never caused me a moment?s problem
    in all the countries I?ve used them and have helped me out of a hole when
    the railways failed.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ColinR@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 14:45:31
    On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>> Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
    resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>> Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>> service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and
    reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you
    don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>> pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed
    delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop
    layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they
    give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>> explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
    at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a
    passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules."

    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or prohibition on non-buses stopping.

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
    It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    --
    Colin


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 15:19:12
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>> Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
    resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>> Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>> service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>> reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you
    don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>> pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed
    delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>> layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>> give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>> explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
    buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
    at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a
    passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>
    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or
    prohibition on non-buses stopping.

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
    It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 14:39:37
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>> Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
    resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>> Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>> service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>> reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>> don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>> pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>> delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>> layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>> give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>> explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>> buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
    at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a
    passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>
    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or
    prohibition on non-buses stopping.

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
    It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?


    Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 16:05:49
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:39:37 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>> Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
    resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>> service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>> reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>> don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>> pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>> delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>> layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>> give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>> explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>> buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>>
    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?


    Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?

    I see what you did there, carefully wording your comment to exclude a certain someone!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 14:03:51
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
    It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary motorists, not taxis.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 14:07:39
    In message <11079lr$3g8cq$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:45:47 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:

    [Starship]

    [1] My College at Cambridge doesn't have step-free access off the
    ??? pavement, and also has one of those mini-doors within a door, which
    ??? the robot wouldn't fit through anyway.

    My delivery would involve use of a keypad at about 5 feet above ground
    to enter and 4 feet to exit. How is that going to happen and how is it >going to find its way around beyond that point?!?

    That's the point, they can't. They'll wait at the roadside until you go outside and pick up your Pizza. If you don't do it quickly enough,
    they'll return the pizza to the shop, and not give you a refund.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 14:12:54
    In message <11079e1$3g8cq$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:41:37 on Mon, 8 Jun
    2026, Martin <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
    On 08/06/2026 13:00, Recliner wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
    In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    "With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally." >>>>>
    Not in the UK it hasn't.

    Not everyone is as parochial as you.

    I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are >>> more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >>> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.

    Robots could soon be delivering your pizza.

    Prolonged snip.

    What no one is explaining, particularly the polidiots, is what happens
    to the class of humans being put out of work by these devices.

    If the market for doorstep delivery is expanding, then they'll
    concentrate on those customers to whom the robots cannot deliver.
    Various indicative examples have been mentioned.

    In other news, got a Tesco Whoosh! delivery ("From as little as 20
    minutes") last week, it really does seem to work. I suppose one could
    think of it as an in-house Deliveroo clone. I didn't see what vehicle
    was used.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 13:23:59
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
    It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary motorists, not taxis.

    Yes, of course. But note that Ubers are not taxis, and licensed taxi
    drivers take a very dim view of any private hire vehicle picking up near a
    taxi rank.

    I suspect local councils that license PVH operators would also be
    disinclined to renew licences for operators whose vehicles made a habit of blocking bus stops.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ColinR@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 16:02:56
    On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
    Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or
    not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary motorists, not taxis.

    Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop or
    tram stop or taxi rank"

    In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
    at a taxi rank.

    The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??) stopping at bus
    stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.

    --
    Colin


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 16:15:40
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 16:02:56 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
    Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or
    not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
    motorists, not taxis.

    Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop or >tram stop or taxi rank"

    In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
    at a taxi rank.

    The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??)

    No, they're not classed as taxis; they're private hire vehicles, like local minicab firms. For example, they can't use
    bus lanes, or pick-up unbooked fares or wait in taxi ranks. It appears that Roland isn't aware of the difference.

    stopping at bus
    stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.

    Indeed, and if they impede local buses, it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire licence.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Ellson@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 18:59:09
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:39:37 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>> Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
    resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>> service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>> reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>> don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>> pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>> delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>> layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>> give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>>>> they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>> explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>> buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>>
    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?


    Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?

    "DO NOT" is not advisory. All the places listed are where one or more
    of a statute, regulation or case law would support a prosecution.
    You can start with e.g. (in England and Wales)-
    s.137 Highways Act 1980 - Wilful Obstruction
    s.22 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions
    Reg. 100(3) The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
    - Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Ellson@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 19:07:35
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 20:09:35
    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:39:37 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>>> Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for >>>>>>>>>>> resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>>> service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>>> reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>>> don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>>> pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>>> delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>>> layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>>> give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>>> explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>>> buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>>>
    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not): >>>> 243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?


    Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >> would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?

    "DO NOT" is not advisory. All the places listed are where one or more
    of a statute, regulation or case law would support a prosecution.
    You can start with e.g. (in England and Wales)-
    s.137 Highways Act 1980 - Wilful Obstruction
    s.22 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions
    Reg. 100(3) The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
    - Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc


    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction

    ?Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user
    and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ?should/should not? or ?do/do not?. ?


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 06:18:42

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus >drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    Regards, ULF

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sam Wilson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 09:25:24
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
    at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    In the case of one bus I took in Lewis, the driver of the bus I was on
    phoned, stopped, said, ?just wait there?, and the next bus picked us up
    from the side of the road. Weirdly there was an actual bus stop just along
    the road.

    Sam

    --
    The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
    Spit the dummy to reply

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sam Wilson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 09:30:37
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
    at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    In the case of one bus we took in Lewis, the driver of the bus we were on phoned, stopped, said, ?just wait there?, and the next bus picked us up
    from the side of the road. Weirdly there was an actual bus stop just along
    the road that the second bus was going to pass anyway.

    <https://maps.app.goo.gl/1tr3s8r1veXZCbvD6>

    Sam

    --
    The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
    Spit the dummy to reply

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 09:32:18

    Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:

    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:


    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    In the case of one bus I took in Lewis, the driver of the bus I was on phoned, stopped, said, ?just wait there?, and the next bus picked us up
    from the side of the road. Weirdly there was an actual bus stop just along the road.

    For the 14.03 and 16.43 services passing Hohenbercha,
    DO NOT wait at the Hohenbercha stop with bus stop signs.

    https://efa.mvv-muenchen.de/ttb2/mvv_19667___H_s26_2.pdf

    Regards, ULF

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:28:07
    In message <110bub2$qpeo$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:02:56 on Wed, 10 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun >>2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
    Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines
    or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at
    ordinary motorists, not taxis.

    Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop
    or tram stop or taxi rank"

    In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
    at a taxi rank.

    The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??) stopping at bus >stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.

    Even when the bus stop has no routes serving it?
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:27:00
    In message <PzdWR.8142$CQIf.7611@fx09.ams1>, at 13:23:59 on Wed, 10 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
    It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
    motorists, not taxis.

    Yes, of course. But note that Ubers are not taxis, and licensed taxi
    drivers take a very dim view of any private hire vehicle picking up near a >taxi rank.

    As the Ubers have to be pre-ordered, there's nothing hackney drivers can
    do about them picking up passengers near to a taxi rank. At Cambridge
    Station, the facilities for drop-off and pick up are available to the
    public and PHVs, with the immediately adjacent taxi-rank for "permit
    holders only".

    I suspect local councils that license PVH operators would also be
    disinclined to renew licences for operators

    Many PHVs are licenced by local authorities hundreds of miles from where
    they operate. How would they know (or care) about the driver's day to
    day activities?

    whose vehicles made a habit of blocking bus stops.

    Although in the case I mentioned, it would not have occupied the
    bus-stop's unmarked layby for more than a few tens of seconds.

    I've just had a look on Google Maps and currently no bus routes service
    that stop. This isn't especially unusual, companies withdraw or re-route
    their buses all the time, which is one reason trams are more popular
    because the routes are rather more permanent.

    When I moved to Ely, one of the houses I was seriously considering
    had an albeit rather dilapidated bus shelter very close, "That's
    convenient" I thought. Until I discovered it had no routes serving it -
    and still doesn't. I presume it had been installed by the developers as
    a planning permission condition ten years earlier, but nobody can force Stagecoach to run a service.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:31:44
    In message <mjvi2llgk2r90q7132vdhisv8b20pqoed0@4ax.com>, at 16:15:40 on
    Wed, 10 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 16:02:56 +0100, ColinR
    <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
    Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or >>>> not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
    motorists, not taxis.

    Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop or >>tram stop or taxi rank"

    In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
    at a taxi rank.

    The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??)

    No, they're not classed as taxis; they're private hire vehicles, like
    local minicab firms. For example, they can't use bus lanes,

    They can in some Cities.

    or pick-up unbooked fares or wait in taxi ranks. It appears that
    Roland isn't aware of the difference.

    Don't be such a disingenuous troll.

    stopping at bus
    stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.

    Indeed, and if they impede local buses,

    Which they won't if no routes serve the bus stop in question.

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
    licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
    miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
    to understand how PHVs work.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:34:42
    In message <1781158722-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 06:18:42 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop
    off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    They could try various online information services. Round here there are
    lots of bus-stops which are a sign (sometimes on a pole, and sometimes
    affixed to a building) which says "both sides of the road", so you need
    to be alert if you are a goatherder and your only source of information
    is your eyes.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 09:48:09
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <mjvi2llgk2r90q7132vdhisv8b20pqoed0@4ax.com>, at 16:15:40 on
    Wed, 10 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 16:02:56 +0100, ColinR
    <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
    Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or >>>>> not):
    243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
    motorists, not taxis.

    Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop or >>> tram stop or taxi rank"

    In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
    at a taxi rank.

    The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??)

    No, they're not classed as taxis; they're private hire vehicles, like
    local minicab firms. For example, they can't use bus lanes,

    They can in some Cities.

    or pick-up unbooked fares or wait in taxi ranks. It appears that
    Roland isn't aware of the difference.

    Don't be such a disingenuous troll.

    stopping at bus
    stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.

    Indeed, and if they impede local buses,

    Which they won't if no routes serve the bus stop in question.

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
    licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
    miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
    to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:47:34
    In message <11091jn$lt5$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:40:23 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <o7de2lprc343cg1a3tqajngvmnsktn99j2@4ax.com>, at 22:38:00 on
    Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
    remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
    specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to >>> use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.

    Indeed, but the pickup point I requested ***IS NOT ILLEGAL*** !!!!

    Legality doesn?t matter. If Uber have a blanket policy of not picking up at >bus stop then that is what the app will enforce. Since it is illegal to
    pick up at some bus stops, and bus stops can be picked out from the OS
    data, but not their picking up legal status

    That's not the only source of data, there's also timetables and whether there's anything painted on the road (eg Streetview). The former might
    reveal the service is once a week, or in the case of the one I was
    waiting at, zero a week.

    , it would seem rational for Uber to impose a conservative we are not
    going to pick up at bus stops. On the other hand that might not be
    their policy and they are just singling you out for special treatment.
    Uber has never caused me a moment?s problem in all the countries
    I?ve used them and have helped me out of a hole when the railways failed.

    I have found Uber to be disastrously oversold. A few examples:

    A town in the Home Counties which their app said had service, but when I
    tried to book, it had a "think" for about ten minutes, assuring me it
    would find me a ride very soon. Then it gave up.

    A town in Spain, where I was staying in the former caretaker's cottage
    at a school, and at the time I booked a pickup it turned out to be in
    the middle of the school run. So a hundred possible vehicles parked left
    right and centre, which might have been my Uber (where one is supposed
    to approach a car with a particular numberplate). He later proceeded to
    whisk me to the airport grossly in excess of the speed limit.

    In Blackpool two years ago booked an Uber to take me to a restaurant,
    but while in transit noticed some bad reviews so politely asked him to
    divert to a different restaurant. Point blank refused and threw me out
    of the car into the rain.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 11:01:02
    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
    licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
    miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
    to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
    far greater than that.

    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
    is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:07:34

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:

    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
    licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
    miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
    to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
    far greater than that.

    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
    is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).

    Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
    accepting a new ride.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:26:32
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:

    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
    licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>> to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
    far greater than that.

    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
    is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).

    Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
    accepting a new ride.


    That?s certainly not the case here. In fact, I?m not sure they routinely
    visit an Uber office at all, other than perhaps for an occasional car inspection. The drivers simply work from home, and try to get new jobs near
    the last job they finished.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:28:41

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:

    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire >>>>> licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>> to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is >> far greater than that.

    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle >> is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).

    Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
    accepting a new ride.


    That?s certainly not the case here. In fact, I?m not sure they routinely visit an Uber office at all, other than perhaps for an occasional car inspection. The drivers simply work from home

    Which might be acceptable as headquarters for self-employed.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:31:54
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
    licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
    miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
    to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
    far greater than that.

    It?s not AI slop, and it?s better informed than you are. In fact, you
    clearly don?t even know what AI slop is, and just use it as a synonym for
    your mentor?s ?fake news? (ie, anything that you don?t agree with, which
    means most factual information).


    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
    is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).

    <sigh> https://www.uber.com/gb/en/blog/changes-to-where-drivers-can-receive-trips/

    In other words, the Uber app will only let you call an Uber in areas where
    Uber is licensed (which includes Blackpool).


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:42:40
    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:

    Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:

    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire >>>>>>> licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>>>> to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is >>>> far greater than that.

    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle >>>> is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).

    Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
    accepting a new ride.


    That?s certainly not the case here. In fact, I?m not sure they routinely
    visit an Uber office at all, other than perhaps for an occasional car
    inspection. The drivers simply work from home

    Which might be acceptable as headquarters for self-employed.


    They certainly don?t go home between rides. In fact, at busy times, they go straight from one ride to the next. I know I?ve sometimes had to wait for
    one, and was puzzled by the strange route he took to get to me. It turned
    out that what I was seeing was him completing the previous ride before
    coming to me.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tweed@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 11:28:03
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <PzdWR.8142$CQIf.7611@fx09.ams1>, at 13:23:59 on Wed, 10 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
    2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not): >>>> 243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
    motorists, not taxis.

    Yes, of course. But note that Ubers are not taxis, and licensed taxi
    drivers take a very dim view of any private hire vehicle picking up near a >> taxi rank.

    As the Ubers have to be pre-ordered, there's nothing hackney drivers can
    do about them picking up passengers near to a taxi rank. At Cambridge Station, the facilities for drop-off and pick up are available to the
    public and PHVs, with the immediately adjacent taxi-rank for "permit
    holders only".

    I suspect local councils that license PVH operators would also be
    disinclined to renew licences for operators

    Many PHVs are licenced by local authorities hundreds of miles from where they operate. How would they know (or care) about the driver's day to
    day activities?

    whose vehicles made a habit of blocking bus stops.

    Although in the case I mentioned, it would not have occupied the
    bus-stop's unmarked layby for more than a few tens of seconds.

    The point is that uber likely as not excludes all bus stops from its map of valid pickup points. It?s unlikely that they will add ones on the basis
    that Roland thinks it?s ok.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 13:08:38
    In message <1781173721-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 10:28:41 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
    Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
    accepting a new ride.

    That?s certainly not the case here. In fact, I?m not sure they routinely
    visit an Uber office at all, other than perhaps for an occasional car
    inspection. The drivers simply work from home

    Which might be acceptable as headquarters for self-employed.

    But is irrelevant to the fact that in the UK they don't return to *any*
    form of HQ during the day.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Roland Perry@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 13:15:37
    In message <u8wWR.12378$xwgc.9588@fx17.ams1>, at 10:31:54 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
    licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>> to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
    far greater than that.

    It?s not AI slop, and it?s better informed than you are. In fact,
    you clearly don?t even know what AI slop is, and just use it as a
    synonym for your mentor?s ?fake news? (ie, anything that you
    don?t agree with, which means most factual information).

    For heavens sake get yourself a new playbook. The old one is well past
    its use-by date. Although it does have its uses: every single utterance
    is false, so one can just scroll straight past.

    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
    is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).

    <sigh> >https://www.uber.com/gb/en/blog/changes-to-where-drivers-can-receive-trips/

    In other words, the Uber app will only let you call an Uber in areas where >Uber is licensed

    Irrelevant, that's Uber's business model being licenced, not the
    individual vehicles.

    (which includes Blackpool).

    And Blackpool isn't in the list you provided.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Recliner@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 14:01:36
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 13:15:37 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    In message <u8wWR.12378$xwgc.9588@fx17.ams1>, at 10:31:54 on Thu, 11 Jun >2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    [Uber]

    it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire >>>>>> licence.

    Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>>> to understand how PHVs work.

    https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/

    I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is >>> far greater than that.

    It?s not AI slop, and it?s better informed than you are. In fact,
    you clearly don?t even know what AI slop is, and just use it as a
    synonym for your mentor?s ?fake news? (ie, anything that you
    don?t agree with, which means most factual information).

    For heavens sake get yourself a new playbook. The old one is well past
    its use-by date. Although it does have its uses: every single utterance
    is false, so one can just scroll straight past.

    And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
    is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).

    <sigh> >>https://www.uber.com/gb/en/blog/changes-to-where-drivers-can-receive-trips/ >>
    In other words, the Uber app will only let you call an Uber in areas where >>Uber is licensed

    Irrelevant, that's Uber's business model being licenced, not the
    individual vehicles.

    Huh? It's the whole point of the comment!


    (which includes Blackpool).

    And Blackpool isn't in the list you provided.

    It's on the full list:
    https://www.uber.com/global/en/r/united-kingdom/cities/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ColinR@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 12:11:54
    On 10/06/2026 19:07, Charles Ellson wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    As you say, in rural areas there may be no markings, posts or any overt
    sign of a bus stop. My nearest stop is shown as a bus stop on google maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9HSE9aApzafM1bxz6
    But the picture shows no signs etc
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gsah6GJ6kA1uuywC8

    --
    Colin


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 11:21:36

    ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:

    On 10/06/2026 19:07, Charles Ellson wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    As you say, in rural areas there may be no markings, posts or any overt
    sign of a bus stop. My nearest stop is shown as a bus stop on google maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9HSE9aApzafM1bxz6
    But the picture shows no signs etc
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gsah6GJ6kA1uuywC8

    Couzldn't see any waiting area for passengers with luggage...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Ellson@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 17:42:26
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 20:09:35 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:39:37 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
    <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
    Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
    In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>>>> Jun
    2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

    Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for >>>>>>>>>>>> resilience and
    repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
    a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>>>> service
    bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
    robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>>>> reduces
    wear on the charging ports.

    But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>>>> don't go
    out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>>>> pizza
    back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>>>> delivery.

    In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>>>> layby on
    a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>>>> give you
    a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
    minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
    they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.

    Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>>>> explain
    why Uber is reluctant to use it.

    It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>>>> buses.

    Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.

    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
    a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
    nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules."

    https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/

    One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.

    Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>>>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not): >>>>> 243.DO NOT stop or park
    [snip]
    at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank

    Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?


    Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >>> would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?

    "DO NOT" is not advisory. All the places listed are where one or more
    of a statute, regulation or case law would support a prosecution.
    You can start with e.g. (in England and Wales)-
    s.137 Highways Act 1980 - Wilful Obstruction
    s.22 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions
    Reg. 100(3) The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
    - Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc


    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction

    ?Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in >itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in >evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user >and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory >wording such as ?should/should not? or ?do/do not?. ?

    You missed the preceding paragraph.

    "Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you
    disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be
    fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from
    driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such
    rules are identified by the use of the words ?MUST/MUST NOT?. In
    addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the
    legislation which creates the offence." [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction]

    The two have to be read together as the same incident can be covered
    by DO NOT in one rule and MUST NOT in another.

    The Highway Code is far from a comprehensive description of the law
    and is not intended to be so.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Ellson@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 18:08:19
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:18:42 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    Usually by the sign on top of the pole saying "Bus Stop"; that sign is
    not a "traffic sign", it is for the convenience of the operator and
    passengers. The painted box on the carriageway *is* a traffic sign
    which might be accompanied by direct or indirect restriction on what
    vehicles can stop there. In rural parts a place in a town used as a
    bus stop is not inevitably signed although most are; it isn't always possible/practible to allocate a fixed position in some places rather
    than rely on passengers and drivers loking out for each other at the
    place described in the timetable (e.g. XYZ village/town square). In
    between towns you might have dozens of unmarked locations where a bus
    could be hailed infrequently by people living in adjacent farms etc.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Ellson@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 18:32:04
    On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 11:21:36 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:

    On 10/06/2026 19:07, Charles Ellson wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    As you say, in rural areas there may be no markings, posts or any overt
    sign of a bus stop. My nearest stop is shown as a bus stop on google maps: >> https://maps.app.goo.gl/9HSE9aApzafM1bxz6
    But the picture shows no signs etc
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gsah6GJ6kA1uuywC8

    Couzldn't see any waiting area for passengers with luggage...

    Look for a group of people standing around expectantly otherwise wait
    where it would be sensible to stop a bus. Where you have a strung out
    location like that, the bus possibly stops at different places on
    different days for different passengers if they haven't all
    congregated for a chat or are happy to all get off together. There are
    sections of some TfL bus routes which operate the same way, described
    as "Hail and Ride" - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/hail-and-ride-buses?intcmp=79234

    They are not all in rural parts, some are on sections of roads without sufficient users to justify fixed bus stops but enough to provide a
    passenger demand. One route near me started with a mile-long H&R
    section but the passenger use seems to have reached the point where
    bus stops have become necessary.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Trolleybus@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 21:58:48
    On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 12:11:54 +0100, ColinR
    <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 19:07, Charles Ellson wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    As you say, in rural areas there may be no markings, posts or any overt
    sign of a bus stop. My nearest stop is shown as a bus stop on google maps: >https://maps.app.goo.gl/9HSE9aApzafM1bxz6
    But the picture shows no signs etc
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gsah6GJ6kA1uuywC8

    Not only rural areas. There are no indications of a place where buses
    might stop outside Stansted Mountfitchet station, despite an hourly
    bus passing in each direction and which stop if needed.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 13, 2026 06:56:32

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:18:42 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >> >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    Usually by the sign on top of the pole saying "Bus Stop"; that sign is
    not a "traffic sign", it is for the convenience of the operator and passengers. The painted box on the carriageway *is* a traffic sign
    which might be accompanied by direct or indirect restriction on what
    vehicles can stop there. In rural parts a place in a town used as a
    bus stop is not inevitably signed although most are; it isn't always possible/practible to allocate a fixed position in some places rather
    than rely on passengers and drivers loking out for each other at the
    place described in the timetable (e.g. XYZ village/town square).

    So the bus will stop twice or thrice in XYZ village
    for every single passenger who is informed concerning
    the route?

    Regards, ULF

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Ellson@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 15, 2026 23:34:29
    On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 06:56:32 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:18:42 GMT, Ulf Kutzner
    <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >> >> >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
    right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
    drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
    any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    Usually by the sign on top of the pole saying "Bus Stop"; that sign is
    not a "traffic sign", it is for the convenience of the operator and
    passengers. The painted box on the carriageway *is* a traffic sign
    which might be accompanied by direct or indirect restriction on what
    vehicles can stop there. In rural parts a place in a town used as a
    bus stop is not inevitably signed although most are; it isn't always
    possible/practible to allocate a fixed position in some places rather
    than rely on passengers and drivers loking out for each other at the
    place described in the timetable (e.g. XYZ village/town square).

    So the bus will stop twice or thrice in XYZ village
    for every single passenger who is informed concerning
    the route?

    Quite possibly unless you have a very small village and there aren't
    designated bus stops or stopping points.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ulf Kutzner@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 06:44:06

    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 06:56:32 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:18:42 GMT, Ulf Kutzner
    <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:

    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
    "As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.


    The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
    reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
    lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop >> >> >right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus >> >> >drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.

    "Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
    road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
    only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have >> >> any bus stop marking on them at all.+

    How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?

    Usually by the sign on top of the pole saying "Bus Stop"; that sign is
    not a "traffic sign", it is for the convenience of the operator and
    passengers. The painted box on the carriageway *is* a traffic sign
    which might be accompanied by direct or indirect restriction on what
    vehicles can stop there. In rural parts a place in a town used as a
    bus stop is not inevitably signed although most are; it isn't always
    possible/practible to allocate a fixed position in some places rather
    than rely on passengers and drivers loking out for each other at the
    place described in the timetable (e.g. XYZ village/town square).

    So the bus will stop twice or thrice in XYZ village
    for every single passenger who is informed concerning
    the route?

    Quite possibly unless you have a very small village and there aren't designated bus stops or stopping points.

    Interesting challenge for address-to-address travel planners.

    "To go there ask the bus driver to stop short of the rusty
    green van wreck."

    Regards, ULF

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)