Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
"With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally."
Not in the UK it hasn't.
Not everyone is as parochial as you.
I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
"With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally."
Not in the UK it hasn't.
Not everyone is as parochial as you.
I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are
more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.
Robots could soon be delivering your pizza
https://economist.com/business/2026/06/07/robots-could-soon-be-delivering-your-pizza
from The Economist
If you live in San Francisco, you may often get a glimpse of the future?commuting in a self-driving taxi, say. In Milton Keynes? Not so
much. But the English city, halfway between Oxford and Cambridge and best known for an abundance of roundabouts, is the place to go if you want to
see a world without delivery drivers. It is one of the largest markets for Starship Technologies, an Estonian startup which claims to have cracked the problem of getting robots to deliver groceries more cheaply than people
can.
Designers of delivery robots face challenges familiar to those that
confront developers of robotaxis. Starship has had to build a sensor array that its six-wheeled couriers, each the size of a beer cooler, can use to guide themselves along the pavements come rain or shine. And that hardware must feed into an artificial-intelligence model which can autonomously take the best route, and carry on even if the connection to a data centre is cut off.
In some ways, though, delivery robots have it easy. With a 35kg robot travelling at 6kph (4mph) tops, safety is less of a worry than it is with a two-tonne car going at 110kph on a motorway. And a slightly bumpy ride
won?t hurt a pizza.
That said, whereas robotaxi firms can leave car design to carmakers (and
most do), robocouriers have no such option. Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a result, it has enough data to
optimise newer models for resilience and repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, a co-founder (who also co-founded
Skype, an internet video-call service bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces wear on the charging ports.
After 12 years of such incremental improvements, Mr Heinla says, the cost
of each delivery is now ?significantly less? than that of paying a human to do it. Starship is aiming for a cost of less than œ1 ($1.34) per delivery. ?It?s not quite there yet, but not very far away,? Mr Heinla says.
In 2018 the company had 127 robots, driving 116,000 kilometres in the year. By 2025 it had 2,414 robots, covering 5.2m kilometres. Along the way, the company says, it has reduced human interventionsÿper kilometre by seven-eighths. Even so, at its scale rare problems, such as a robot failing in the middle of a street, add up. (The solution? A simple back-up computer designed purely to get it to the other side.)
The little six-wheelers might soon change how cities look. Could they also make people feel a little more kindly about AI? Probably not, especially if you are an out-of-work delivery driver. Then again, in Finland, Starship?s biggest market, a director of the startup?s supermarket partner has had to urge sympathetic passers-by not to lift the robots out of snowdrifts when they get stuck?lest they hurt themselves coming to the rescue. þ
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
wear on the charging ports.
Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d hate to see >our pavements become infested with these things,
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
In message <1106bue$3794n$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:18:22 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d hate to see >> our pavements become infested with these things,
Oh dear, come to Cambridge, the Deliveroo and Just-Eat moped drivers are often to be seen mowing pedestrians down.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain why Uber is reluctant to use it.
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >why Uber is reluctant to use it.
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >> why Uber is reluctant to use it.
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
Uber provides a map showing the planned pickup point. It?s often not
exactly where you?re standing, because of stopping restrictions.
One assumes Roland?s claimed five minutes walk was actually no more
than 50 metres.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106bue$3794n$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:18:22 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d
hate to see
our pavements become infested with these things,
Oh dear, come to Cambridge, the Deliveroo and Just-Eat moped drivers are
often to be seen mowing pedestrians down.
Well we don?t want to add to that with 6 wheel trundling boxes do we?
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >> why Uber is reluctant to use it.
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces >>>>> wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go >>>> out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza >>>> back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>>
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
In message <eTzVR.8315$mXJ2.4919@fx07.ams1>, at 13:57:30 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces >>>>> wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go >>>> out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza >>>> back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>>
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
Uber provides a map showing the planned pickup point. It?s often not >>exactly where you?re standing, because of stopping restrictions.
There were no stopping restrictions, so once again you are completely
and utterly wrong.
One assumes Roland?s claimed five minutes walk was actually no more
than 50 metres.
It was 300m including a rather steep slope down to a canal towpath.
So once again you are completely and utterly wrong.
Are you mainly here to make a complete fool of yourself? Because you >succeeding admirably.
Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
Are you mainly here to make a complete fool of yourself? Because you >>succeeding admirably.
A genuine LOL moment!
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and >>>>>> repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, >>>>>> a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call service >>>>>> bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and reduces >>>>>> wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an
individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go >>>>> out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza >>>>> back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery. >>>>>
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules."
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
In message <1106l8p$3a6kt$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:57:29 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
Or perhaps not. No cites, no evidence, just unsubstantiated arm-waving.
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 17:17:58 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106l8p$3a6kt$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:57:29 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Did the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it
would explain
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
Or perhaps not. No cites, no evidence, just unsubstantiated arm-waving.
Inspired by you, perhaps?
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
"With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally."
Not in the UK it hasn't.
Not everyone is as parochial as you.
I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are
more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.
Robots could soon be delivering your pizza.
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a
result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti
Heinla, a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-
call service bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s
latest batch of robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is
speedier and reduces wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
I ordered a second Uber, which charged me a much more affordable around
œ3 for the trip from where I was waiting to a restaurant about a mile away.
Having spent probably three full-time-equivalent hours getting a œ120
refund out of PayPal for an item that wasn't just not delivered,
according to the tracking it was never picked up from the convenience
store the vendor allegedly dropped it off at, I'm not sure I have the
energy to pursue Uber for a refund. Which is of course exactly what they
are betting on.
[1] My College at Cambridge doesn't have step-free access off the
ÿÿÿ pavement, and also has one of those mini-doors within a door, which
ÿÿÿ the robot wouldn't fit through anyway.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
"With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally." >>>>>Not in the UK it hasn't.
Not everyone is as parochial as you.
I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are >>> more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >>> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.
Robots could soon be delivering your pizza
https://economist.com/business/2026/06/07/robots-could-soon-be-delivering-your-pizza
from The Economist
If you live in San Francisco, you may often get a glimpse of the
future?commuting in a self-driving taxi, say. In Milton Keynes? Not so
much. But the English city, halfway between Oxford and Cambridge and best
known for an abundance of roundabouts, is the place to go if you want to
see a world without delivery drivers. It is one of the largest markets for >> Starship Technologies, an Estonian startup which claims to have cracked the >> problem of getting robots to deliver groceries more cheaply than people
can.
Designers of delivery robots face challenges familiar to those that
confront developers of robotaxis. Starship has had to build a sensor array >> that its six-wheeled couriers, each the size of a beer cooler, can use to
guide themselves along the pavements come rain or shine. And that hardware >> must feed into an artificial-intelligence model which can autonomously take >> the best route, and carry on even if the connection to a data centre is cut >> off.
In some ways, though, delivery robots have it easy. With a 35kg robot
travelling at 6kph (4mph) tops, safety is less of a worry than it is with a >> two-tonne car going at 110kph on a motorway. And a slightly bumpy ride
won?t hurt a pizza.
That said, whereas robotaxi firms can leave car design to carmakers (and
most do), robocouriers have no such option. Starship has by now created
several generations of vehicles. As a result, it has enough data to
optimise newer models for resilience and repairability. Gains can come from >> unexpected places, says Ahti Heinla, a co-founder (who also co-founded
Skype, an internet video-call service bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in
2011). Starship?s latest batch of robots charge wirelessly, for instance,
which is speedier and reduces wear on the charging ports.
After 12 years of such incremental improvements, Mr Heinla says, the cost
of each delivery is now ?significantly less? than that of paying a human to >> do it. Starship is aiming for a cost of less than œ1 ($1.34) per delivery. >> ?It?s not quite there yet, but not very far away,? Mr Heinla says.
In 2018 the company had 127 robots, driving 116,000 kilometres in the year. >> By 2025 it had 2,414 robots, covering 5.2m kilometres. Along the way, the
company says, it has reduced human interventionsÿper kilometre by
seven-eighths. Even so, at its scale rare problems, such as a robot failing >> in the middle of a street, add up. (The solution? A simple back-up computer >> designed purely to get it to the other side.)
The little six-wheelers might soon change how cities look. Could they also >> make people feel a little more kindly about AI? Probably not, especially if >> you are an out-of-work delivery driver. Then again, in Finland, Starship?s >> biggest market, a director of the startup?s supermarket partner has had to >> urge sympathetic passers-by not to lift the robots out of snowdrifts when
they get stuck?lest they hurt themselves coming to the rescue. þ
Delivery drivers (largely) confine themselves to the roads. I?d hate to see our pavements become infested with these things,
On 08/06/2026 13:00, Recliner wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
"With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally." >>>>>Not in the UK it hasn't.
Not everyone is as parochial as you.
I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are >>> more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >>> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.
Robots could soon be delivering your pizza.
Prolonged snip.
What no one is explaining, particularly the polidiots, is what happens
to the class of humans being put out of work by these devices.
The same applies to AI.
Perhaps AI and robots should be taxed to pay dole money for those displaced!
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. DespiteDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >why Uber is reluctant to use it.
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.
In message <hmnd2l5trio37jruusm5ul0no1bf6iudv8@4ax.com>, at 16:25:30 on
Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Are you mainly here to make a complete fool of yourself? Because you
succeeding admirably.
A genuine LOL moment!
Indeed, and we are all laughing at you.
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. DespiteDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >> why Uber is reluctant to use it.
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to
use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.
Oddly enough, a local taxi driver would probably be willing to do it, on the grounds that he knows the area and knows what he can reasonably get away
with without risking a ticket. But I wouldn't blame someone without that level of knowledge deciding not to take the risk. Particularly given that,
if he is actually ticketed for it, it's potentially a licence-losing act.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> >wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. DespiteDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>why Uber is reluctant to use it.
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.
Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to
use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.
Oddly enough, a local taxi driver
would probably be willing to do it, on the
grounds that he knows the area and knows what he can reasonably get away
with without risking a ticket.
But I wouldn't blame someone without that level of knowledge deciding
not to take the risk. Particularly given that, if he is actually
ticketed for it, it's potentially a licence-losing act.
In message <o7de2lprc343cg1a3tqajngvmnsktn99j2@4ax.com>, at 22:38:00 on
Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. DespiteDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain >>> why Uber is reluctant to use it.
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to
use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.
Indeed, but the pickup point I requested ***IS NOT ILLEGAL*** !!!!
In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on
Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>> JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>> explain
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>> Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>> service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and
reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you
don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>> pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed
delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop
layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they
give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a
passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules."
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or prohibition on non-buses stopping.
On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on
Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>> JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>> explain
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>> Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>> service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>> reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you
don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>> pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed
delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>> layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>> give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except
buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a
passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or
prohibition on non-buses stopping.
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>> JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>> explain
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>> Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>> service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>> reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>> don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>> pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>> delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>> layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>> give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>> buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a
passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or
prohibition on non-buses stopping.
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>> JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>> explain
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>> service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>> reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>> don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>> pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>> delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>> layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>> give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>> buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>>
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?
Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
[1] My College at Cambridge doesn't have step-free access off the
??? pavement, and also has one of those mini-doors within a door, which
??? the robot wouldn't fit through anyway.
My delivery would involve use of a keypad at about 5 feet above ground
to enter and 4 feet to exit. How is that going to happen and how is it >going to find its way around beyond that point?!?
On 08/06/2026 13:00, Recliner wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:Robots could soon be delivering your pizza.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:22:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <0kdftk1nv5td54mg88d9tu9g6a7m9e6tms@4ax.com>, at 15:24:40 on >>>>> Thu, 9 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
"With more than 2,700 robots operating across 270 locations, Starship >>>>>> has built one of the largest autonomous delivery networks globally." >>>>>Not in the UK it hasn't.
Not everyone is as parochial as you.
I wonder how successful these delivery robots really are? I hope they are >>> more successful than the robotic vacuum cleaners used in some airports. The >>> ones I?ve seen always seem to need rescuing by a human at some point.
Prolonged snip.
What no one is explaining, particularly the polidiots, is what happens
to the class of humans being put out of work by these devices.
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary motorists, not taxis.
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or
not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary motorists, not taxis.
On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or
not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
motorists, not taxis.
Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop or >tram stop or taxi rank"
In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
at a taxi rank.
The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??)
stopping at bus
stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>> JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>> explain
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for
resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>> service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>> reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>> don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>> pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>> delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>> layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>> give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>>>>>> they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>> buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>>
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?
Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:39:37 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:"DO NOT" is not advisory. All the places listed are where one or more
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>>> JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>>> explain
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for >>>>>>>>>>> resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>>> service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of >>>>>>>>>>> robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>>> reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>>> don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>>> pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>>> delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>>> layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>>> give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>>>>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>>> buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules." >>>>>>
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not): >>>> 243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?
Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >> would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?
of a statute, regulation or case law would support a prosecution.
You can start with e.g. (in England and Wales)-
s.137 Highways Act 1980 - Wilful Obstruction
s.22 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions
Reg. 100(3) The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
- Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus >drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off
at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
In the case of one bus I took in Lewis, the driver of the bus I was on phoned, stopped, said, ?just wait there?, and the next bus picked us up
from the side of the road. Weirdly there was an actual bus stop just along the road.
On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun >>2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the HighwayAs taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at
Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines
or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
ordinary motorists, not taxis.
Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop
or tram stop or taxi rank"
In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
at a taxi rank.
The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??) stopping at bus >stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code.
It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
motorists, not taxis.
Yes, of course. But note that Ubers are not taxis, and licensed taxi
drivers take a very dim view of any private hire vehicle picking up near a >taxi rank.
I suspect local councils that license PVH operators would also be
disinclined to renew licences for operators
whose vehicles made a habit of blocking bus stops.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 16:02:56 +0100, ColinR
<rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or >>>> not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
motorists, not taxis.
Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop or >>tram stop or taxi rank"
In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
at a taxi rank.
The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??)
No, they're not classed as taxis; they're private hire vehicles, like
local minicab firms. For example, they can't use bus lanes,
or pick-up unbooked fares or wait in taxi ranks. It appears that
Roland isn't aware of the difference.
stopping at bus
stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.
Indeed, and if they impede local buses,
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
licence.
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop
off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
In message <mjvi2llgk2r90q7132vdhisv8b20pqoed0@4ax.com>, at 16:15:40 on
Wed, 10 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 16:02:56 +0100, ColinR
<rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 10/06/2026 14:03, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway
Code. It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or >>>>> not):
243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
motorists, not taxis.
Read it again - it logically reads "Do not stop at or near a bus stop or >>> tram stop or taxi rank"
In other words do not stopm at EITHER a bus stop NOR at a tram stop NOR
at a taxi rank.
The thread is about Ubers (are they classed as taxis??)
No, they're not classed as taxis; they're private hire vehicles, like
local minicab firms. For example, they can't use bus lanes,
They can in some Cities.
or pick-up unbooked fares or wait in taxi ranks. It appears that
Roland isn't aware of the difference.
Don't be such a disingenuous troll.
stopping at bus
stops which is clearly against section 243 of the Highway Code.
Indeed, and if they impede local buses,
Which they won't if no routes serve the bus stop in question.
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
to understand how PHVs work.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <o7de2lprc343cg1a3tqajngvmnsktn99j2@4ax.com>, at 22:38:00 onLegality doesn?t matter. If Uber have a blanket policy of not picking up at >bus stop then that is what the app will enforce. Since it is illegal to
Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 13:43:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. DespiteDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would explain
specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop layby on >>>>> a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they give you >>>>> a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five >>>>> minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and >>>>> they *still* charged me œ5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
Yes; I would certainly hope that Uber drivers are instructed to refuse to >>> use a pick-up or drop-off point where doing so would be unlawful.
Indeed, but the pickup point I requested ***IS NOT ILLEGAL*** !!!!
pick up at some bus stops, and bus stops can be picked out from the OS
data, but not their picking up legal status
, it would seem rational for Uber to impose a conservative we are not
going to pick up at bus stops. On the other hand that might not be
their policy and they are just singling you out for special treatment.
Uber has never caused me a moment?s problem in all the countries
I?ve used them and have helped me out of a hole when the railways failed.
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
[Uber]
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
far greater than that.
And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
[Uber]
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>> to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
far greater than that.
And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
accepting a new ride.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
[Uber]
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire >>>>> licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>> to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is >> far greater than that.
And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle >> is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
accepting a new ride.
That?s certainly not the case here. In fact, I?m not sure they routinely visit an Uber office at all, other than perhaps for an occasional car inspection. The drivers simply work from home
In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
[Uber]
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of
miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem
to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
far greater than that.
And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
[Uber]
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire >>>>>>> licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>>>> to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is >>>> far greater than that.
And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle >>>> is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
accepting a new ride.
That?s certainly not the case here. In fact, I?m not sure they routinely
visit an Uber office at all, other than perhaps for an occasional car
inspection. The drivers simply work from home
Which might be acceptable as headquarters for self-employed.
In message <PzdWR.8142$CQIf.7611@fx09.ams1>, at 13:23:59 on Wed, 10 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <11095ds$1qrc$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:45:31 on Tue, 9 Jun
2026, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not): >>>> 243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
As taxis clearly stop at taxi ranks, that advice is aimed at ordinary
motorists, not taxis.
Yes, of course. But note that Ubers are not taxis, and licensed taxi
drivers take a very dim view of any private hire vehicle picking up near a >> taxi rank.
As the Ubers have to be pre-ordered, there's nothing hackney drivers can
do about them picking up passengers near to a taxi rank. At Cambridge Station, the facilities for drop-off and pick up are available to the
public and PHVs, with the immediately adjacent taxi-rank for "permit
holders only".
I suspect local councils that license PVH operators would also be
disinclined to renew licences for operators
Many PHVs are licenced by local authorities hundreds of miles from where they operate. How would they know (or care) about the driver's day to
day activities?
whose vehicles made a habit of blocking bus stops.
Although in the case I mentioned, it would not have occupied the
bus-stop's unmarked layby for more than a few tens of seconds.
Ubers here [TM] MUST return to their headquarters before
accepting a new ride.
That?s certainly not the case here. In fact, I?m not sure they routinely
visit an Uber office at all, other than perhaps for an occasional car
inspection. The drivers simply work from home
Which might be acceptable as headquarters for self-employed.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
[Uber]
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire
licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>> to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is
far greater than that.
It?s not AI slop, and it?s better informed than you are. In fact,
you clearly don?t even know what AI slop is, and just use it as a
synonym for your mentor?s ?fake news? (ie, anything that you
don?t agree with, which means most factual information).
And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
<sigh> >https://www.uber.com/gb/en/blog/changes-to-where-drivers-can-receive-trips/
In other words, the Uber app will only let you call an Uber in areas where >Uber is licensed
(which includes Blackpool).
In message <u8wWR.12378$xwgc.9588@fx17.ams1>, at 10:31:54 on Thu, 11 Jun >2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <tvvWR.6998$wjw4.297@fx15.ams1>, at 09:48:09 on Thu, 11 Jun
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
[Uber]
it might reduce their chances of retaining their local private hire >>>>>> licence.
Except those licences aren't local, they can be from place hundreds of >>>>> miles away. So unless you are being disingenuous again, you don't seem >>>>> to understand how PHVs work.
https://startups.co.uk/news/uber-locations-uk/
I presume that's AI-slop, as the number of places you can get an Uber is >>> far greater than that.
It?s not AI slop, and it?s better informed than you are. In fact,
you clearly don?t even know what AI slop is, and just use it as a
synonym for your mentor?s ?fake news? (ie, anything that you
don?t agree with, which means most factual information).
For heavens sake get yourself a new playbook. The old one is well past
its use-by date. Although it does have its uses: every single utterance
is false, so one can just scroll straight past.
And is completely disjoint from the local authorities where the vehicle
is licenced (my Blackpool Uber was licenced in Wolverhamption iirc).
<sigh> >>https://www.uber.com/gb/en/blog/changes-to-where-drivers-can-receive-trips/ >>
In other words, the Uber app will only let you call an Uber in areas where >>Uber is licensed
Irrelevant, that's Uber's business model being licenced, not the
individual vehicles.
(which includes Blackpool).
And Blackpool isn't in the list you provided.
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
On 10/06/2026 19:07, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
As you say, in rural areas there may be no markings, posts or any overt
sign of a bus stop. My nearest stop is shown as a bus stop on google maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9HSE9aApzafM1bxz6
But the picture shows no signs etc
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gsah6GJ6kA1uuywC8
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:39:37 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:"DO NOT" is not advisory. All the places listed are where one or more
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:45:31 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <aind2lpelh4at7l3ncr65n7jij81vlse5a@4ax.com>, at 16:24:28 on >>>>>> Mon, 8 Jun 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1106gto$38pr2$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:43:20 on Mon, 8 Jun >>>>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <L9yVR.6708$xwgc.2518@fx17.ams1>, at 12:00:43 on Mon, 8 >>>>>>>>>>> JunDid the bus stop lay-by have a wide yellow line? If it did it would >>>>>>>>>> explain
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Starship has by now created several generations of vehicles. As a >>>>>>>>>>>> result, it has enough data to optimise newer models for >>>>>>>>>>>> resilience and
repairability. Gains can come from unexpected places, says Ahti >>>>>>>>>>>> Heinla,
a co-founder (who also co-founded Skype, an internet video-call >>>>>>>>>>>> service
bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011). Starship?s latest batch of
robots charge wirelessly, for instance, which is speedier and >>>>>>>>>>>> reduces
wear on the charging ports.
But they still can't go upstairs in a block of flats, or access an >>>>>>>>>>> individual student room in a Hall of Residence[1]. And if you >>>>>>>>>>> don't go
out to the street and find the robot very promptly, it takes your >>>>>>>>>>> pizza
back to the shop, which *doesn't* give a refund for the failed >>>>>>>>>>> delivery.
In other news, I had a failed Uber journey the other week. Despite >>>>>>>>>>> specifying exactly where I wanted picking up (it was a bus stop >>>>>>>>>>> layby on
a busy road which I nevertheless I never saw a bus on, and they >>>>>>>>>>> give you
a map to click on in their App) they insisted I should walk for five
minutes to somewhere else they *could* pick me up. So I declined, and
they *still* charged me ?5 for the aborted trip.
why Uber is reluctant to use it.
It's got no yellow lines, or even notices about "No stopping except >>>>>>>>> buses.
Perhaps Uber rules out bus stops as a matter of policy.
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off >>>>>>> at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine. Even if
a customer wants to be dropped off or you?re attempting to pick up a >>>>>>> passenger, please find an alternative safe location
nearby and explain this to the passenger so they?re aware of the rules."
https://ottocar.co.uk/blog/pco-road-rules/
One size fits all perhaps, including bus stops with no yellow lines or >>>>>> prohibition on non-buses stopping.
Why do you ALL not go to the the definitive document, the Highway Code. >>>>> It is clear and unambiguous (and no reference to yellow lines or not): >>>>> 243.DO NOT stop or park
[snip]
at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
Surely the Highway Code explicitly allows such stops if Roland Perry is the passenger?
Rule 243 is advisory rather than enforceable, but what right minded person >>> would object to Uber taking the advice seriously?
of a statute, regulation or case law would support a prosecution.
You can start with e.g. (in England and Wales)-
s.137 Highways Act 1980 - Wilful Obstruction
s.22 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions
Reg. 100(3) The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
- Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction
?Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in >itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in >evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user >and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory >wording such as ?should/should not? or ?do/do not?. ?
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:
On 10/06/2026 19:07, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
As you say, in rural areas there may be no markings, posts or any overt
sign of a bus stop. My nearest stop is shown as a bus stop on google maps: >> https://maps.app.goo.gl/9HSE9aApzafM1bxz6
But the picture shows no signs etc
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gsah6GJ6kA1uuywC8
Couzldn't see any waiting area for passengers with luggage...
On 10/06/2026 19:07, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
As you say, in rural areas there may be no markings, posts or any overt
sign of a bus stop. My nearest stop is shown as a bus stop on google maps: >https://maps.app.goo.gl/9HSE9aApzafM1bxz6
But the picture shows no signs etc
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gsah6GJ6kA1uuywC8
On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:18:42 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >> >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
Usually by the sign on top of the pole saying "Bus Stop"; that sign is
not a "traffic sign", it is for the convenience of the operator and passengers. The painted box on the carriageway *is* a traffic sign
which might be accompanied by direct or indirect restriction on what
vehicles can stop there. In rural parts a place in a town used as a
bus stop is not inevitably signed although most are; it isn't always possible/practible to allocate a fixed position in some places rather
than rely on passengers and drivers loking out for each other at the
place described in the timetable (e.g. XYZ village/town square).
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:18:42 GMT, Ulf Kutzner
<user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Usually by the sign on top of the pole saying "Bus Stop"; that sign is
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop >> >> >lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop
right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus
drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have
any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
not a "traffic sign", it is for the convenience of the operator and
passengers. The painted box on the carriageway *is* a traffic sign
which might be accompanied by direct or indirect restriction on what
vehicles can stop there. In rural parts a place in a town used as a
bus stop is not inevitably signed although most are; it isn't always
possible/practible to allocate a fixed position in some places rather
than rely on passengers and drivers loking out for each other at the
place described in the timetable (e.g. XYZ village/town square).
So the bus will stop twice or thrice in XYZ village
for every single passenger who is informed concerning
the route?
On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 06:56:32 GMT, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:18:42 GMT, Ulf Kutzner
<user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Usually by the sign on top of the pole saying "Bus Stop"; that sign is
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> posted:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 09:01:14 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/06/2026 16:24, Recliner wrote:"Bus stop" in this context is the specific bit of paintwork on the
"As a simple rule, please don?t use bus stops to pick up or drop off at anytime or you risk a unnecessary fine.
The main problem is not people stopping at bus stops for various
reasons, it is the people who stop right in the middle of the bus stop
lay-by which prevents a bus using it. It is quite possible to stop >> >> >right at the end of the lay-by and not obstruct the buses. Most bus >> >> >drivers do not make a fuss if they are not obstructed.
road not the vicinity of a bus stop sign on a pole. Many laybys are
only partly occupied by a bus stop and a lot of rural ones don't have >> >> any bus stop marking on them at all.+
How shall passengers (in the bus or wanting to take one) find them?
not a "traffic sign", it is for the convenience of the operator and
passengers. The painted box on the carriageway *is* a traffic sign
which might be accompanied by direct or indirect restriction on what
vehicles can stop there. In rural parts a place in a town used as a
bus stop is not inevitably signed although most are; it isn't always
possible/practible to allocate a fixed position in some places rather
than rely on passengers and drivers loking out for each other at the
place described in the timetable (e.g. XYZ village/town square).
So the bus will stop twice or thrice in XYZ village
for every single passenger who is informed concerning
the route?
Quite possibly unless you have a very small village and there aren't designated bus stops or stopping points.
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