On 28/05/2026 22:38, Recliner wrote:
e blamed this on ?the ongoing war in the Middle East?, saying it meant TPE >> was facing a diesel bill ?which is likely to be between œ10-œ15m above our >> planned budget?.
This is nearly three quarters higher than last year?s fuel bill,
which was œ20.3m according to Office of Rail and Road (ORR) figures.
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last >year?
In message <10vbdq5$3vq2n$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:04:37 on Fri, 29 May
2026, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
On 28/05/2026 22:38, Recliner wrote:
e blamed this on ?the ongoing war in the Middle East?, saying it meant TPE >>> was facing a diesel bill ?which is likely to be between œ10-œ15m above our >>> planned budget?.
This is nearly three quarters higher than last year?s fuel bill,
which was œ20.3m according to Office of Rail and Road (ORR) figures.
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last
year?
Because they have to buy at wholesale prices, which are quite different
to retail prices. cf Hospitality venues having to pay typically twice
the price for their energy as domestic customers.
I had to pay œ1.50/litre for *red* diesel (that's about 50% more than
the current street price) to top up my hire boat last week. If I'd been
a bit wider awake I might have tried a boatyard other than the one we
hired from, first.
Back in the day, they never charged for fuel, it was thrown in (with the tank holding enough for about three weeks' cruising). And you didn't
need pumpouts (now around œ25 each from a boatyard, because the Canal
and River Trust have withdrawn from the market) because the sewage went straight into the canal.
On Fri, 29 May 2026 08:04:37 +0100, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 28/05/2026 22:38, Recliner wrote:
e blamed this on ?the ongoing war in the Middle East?, saying it meant TPE >>> was facing a diesel bill ?which is likely to be between ?10-?15m above our >>> planned budget?.
This is nearly three quarters higher than last year?s fuel bill, which was >>> ?20.3m according to Office of Rail and Road (ORR) figures.
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last >>year?
I assume TOCS and FOCs attempt to hedge prices and are currently
unable to secure supplies at anything like the prices they have been
used to paying until recently. It's not like their class 185s pull
into a loop, fill up with 10000l of diesel then go to the pay desk to
settle up according to the price on the pump.
On Fri, 29 May 2026 09:01:26 +0100, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2026 08:04:37 +0100, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 28/05/2026 22:38, Recliner wrote:
e blamed this on ?the ongoing war in the Middle East?, saying it meant TPE >>>> was facing a diesel bill ?which is likely to be between œ10-œ15m above our >>>> planned budget?.
This is nearly three quarters higher than last year?s fuel bill, which was >>>> œ20.3m according to Office of Rail and Road (ORR) figures.
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last
year?
I assume TOCS and FOCs attempt to hedge prices and are currently
unable to secure supplies at anything like the prices they have been
used to paying until recently. It's not like their class 185s pull
into a loop, fill up with 10000l of diesel then go to the pay desk to
settle up according to the price on the pump.
Is a public sector body allowed to 'hedge' or is there some Treasury
rule to prevent what arguably amounts to a form of gambling?
On Fri, 29 May 2026 09:01:26 +0100, Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2026 08:04:37 +0100, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 28/05/2026 22:38, Recliner wrote:
e blamed this on ?the ongoing war in the Middle East?, saying it meant TPE >>>> was facing a diesel bill ?which is likely to be between œ10-œ15m above our >>>> planned budget?.
This is nearly three quarters higher than last year?s fuel bill, which was >>>> œ20.3m according to Office of Rail and Road (ORR) figures.
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last >>> year?
I assume TOCS and FOCs attempt to hedge prices and are currently
unable to secure supplies at anything like the prices they have been
used to paying until recently. It's not like their class 185s pull
into a loop, fill up with 10000l of diesel then go to the pay desk to
settle up according to the price on the pump.
Is a public sector body allowed to 'hedge' or is there some Treasury
rule to prevent what arguably amounts to a form of gambling?
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last
year?
Because they have to buy at wholesale prices, which are quite different
to retail prices. cf Hospitality venues having to pay typically twice
the price for their energy as domestic customers.
I had to pay œ1.50/litre for *red* diesel (that's about 50% more than
the current street price) to top up my hire boat last week. If I'd been
a bit wider awake I might have tried a boatyard other than the one we
hired from, first.
Back in the day, they never charged for fuel, it was thrown in (with the
tank holding enough for about three weeks' cruising). And you didn't
need pumpouts (now around œ25 each from a boatyard, because the Canal
and River Trust have withdrawn from the market) because the sewage went
straight into the canal.
I?ve just looked up the tariff for an address that serves a nearby pub. The >unit prices for gas and electricity offered by Octopus are very similar to >their domestic prices. The daily standing charge is about 30% more. Nothing >like twice the price.
In message <10vkh8l$2da54$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:58:45 on Mon, 1 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last >>>> year?
Because they have to buy at wholesale prices, which are quite different
to retail prices. cf Hospitality venues having to pay typically twice
the price for their energy as domestic customers.
I had to pay œ1.50/litre for *red* diesel (that's about 50% more than
the current street price) to top up my hire boat last week. If I'd been
a bit wider awake I might have tried a boatyard other than the one we
hired from, first.
Back in the day, they never charged for fuel, it was thrown in (with the >>> tank holding enough for about three weeks' cruising). And you didn't
need pumpouts (now around œ25 each from a boatyard, because the Canal
and River Trust have withdrawn from the market) because the sewage went
straight into the canal.
I?ve just looked up the tariff for an address that serves a nearby pub. The >> unit prices for gas and electricity offered by Octopus are very similar to >> their domestic prices. The daily standing charge is about 30% more. Nothing >> like twice the price.
Then there must a whole load of very stupid pubs and fish-and-chip shops paying far more. Or maybe the suppliers decline to do business with them
at the cheaper rates.
In message <10vbdq5$3vq2n$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:04:37 on Fri, 29 May
2026, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
On 28/05/2026 22:38, Recliner wrote:
e blamed this on ?the ongoing war in the Middle East?, saying it meant TPE >>> was facing a diesel bill ?which is likely to be between œ10-œ15m above our >>> planned budget?.
This is nearly three quarters higher than last year?s fuel bill,
which was œ20.3m according to Office of Rail and Road (ORR) figures.
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for
two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last
year?
Because they have to buy at wholesale prices, which are quite different
to retail prices. cf Hospitality venues having to pay typically twice
the price for their energy as domestic customers.
I had to pay œ1.50/litre for *red* diesel (that's about 50% more than
the current street price) to top up my hire boat last week. If I'd been
a bit wider awake I might have tried a boatyard other than the one we
hired from, first.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10vkh8l$2da54$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:58:45 on Mon, 1 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for >>>>> two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last
year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last >>>>> year?
Because they have to buy at wholesale prices, which are quite different >>>> to retail prices. cf Hospitality venues having to pay typically twice
the price for their energy as domestic customers.
I had to pay œ1.50/litre for *red* diesel (that's about 50% more than
the current street price) to top up my hire boat last week. If I'd been >>>> a bit wider awake I might have tried a boatyard other than the one we
hired from, first.
Back in the day, they never charged for fuel, it was thrown in (with the >>>> tank holding enough for about three weeks' cruising). And you didn't
need pumpouts (now around œ25 each from a boatyard, because the Canal
and River Trust have withdrawn from the market) because the sewage went >>>> straight into the canal.
I?ve just looked up the tariff for an address that serves a nearby
pub. The unit prices for gas and electricity offered by Octopus are >>>very similar to their domestic prices. The daily standing charge is >>>about 30% more. Nothing like twice the price.
Then there must a whole load of very stupid pubs and fish-and-chip shops
paying far more. Or maybe the suppliers decline to do business with them
at the cheaper rates.
I think the big difference is that these businesses use far more energy
than the average domestic user. As such, in the days of cheaper energy I >suspect they were offered cheaper terms than domestic users as the various >suppliers sought to increase market share. Now they are at parity, so that >appears to be a huge increase to the business.
In message <10vls5s$2o3j7$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:11:08 on Tue, 2 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10vkh8l$2da54$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:58:45 on Mon, 1 Jun
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Well, someone is talking bollocks. The fuel went up by around 30% for >>>>>> two months, but has now gone down to a 10-15% rise compared to last >>>>>> year, so how do they suddenly get to be paying 50 to 75% more than last >>>>>> year?
Because they have to buy at wholesale prices, which are quite different >>>>> to retail prices. cf Hospitality venues having to pay typically twice >>>>> the price for their energy as domestic customers.
I had to pay œ1.50/litre for *red* diesel (that's about 50% more than >>>>> the current street price) to top up my hire boat last week. If I'd been >>>>> a bit wider awake I might have tried a boatyard other than the one we >>>>> hired from, first.
Back in the day, they never charged for fuel, it was thrown in (with the >>>>> tank holding enough for about three weeks' cruising). And you didn't >>>>> need pumpouts (now around œ25 each from a boatyard, because the Canal >>>>> and River Trust have withdrawn from the market) because the sewage went >>>>> straight into the canal.
I?ve just looked up the tariff for an address that serves a nearby
pub. The unit prices for gas and electricity offered by Octopus are
very similar to their domestic prices. The daily standing charge is
about 30% more. Nothing like twice the price.
Then there must a whole load of very stupid pubs and fish-and-chip shops >>> paying far more. Or maybe the suppliers decline to do business with them >>> at the cheaper rates.
I think the big difference is that these businesses use far more energy
than the average domestic user. As such, in the days of cheaper energy I
suspect they were offered cheaper terms than domestic users as the various >> suppliers sought to increase market share. Now they are at parity, so that >> appears to be a huge increase to the business.
I've just been talking to a wholesale energy price comparison site, and
they say business electricity is 27-28p per kWh, and rose by 170% (due
to the Ukraine war). Octopus business electricity (I just got an online quote) is 35p daytime, 29p nightime. Their domestic rates can be as low
as 6p (overnight EV) although I'm paying 24p flat rate.
| Sysop: | Jacob Catayoc |
|---|---|
| Location: | Pasay City, Metro Manila, Philippines |
| Users: | 4 |
| Nodes: | 4 (0 / 4) |
| Uptime: | 494928:21:21 |
| Calls: | 162 |
| Files: | 568 |
| D/L today: |
14 files (349K bytes) |
| Messages: | 74,957 |