On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
It has probably been repeated on BBC2/3/4 by now and BBC Scotland is available across much of NW Europe by satellite and to anyone with
full IPlayer access. Radio Scotland and Radio nan Gaidheal have world
wide audiences via the internet.
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
On 21/04/2026 16:24, Charles Ellson wrote:
It has probably been repeated on BBC2/3/4 by now and BBC Scotland is
available across much of NW Europe by satellite and to anyone with
full IPlayer access. Radio Scotland and Radio nan Gaidheal have world
wide audiences via the internet.
But very few watch it or listen to the radio services.
I often recommend programmes on Alba or the BBC Scotland channel to
friends, and it is very rare that they seen the programmes but they
often enjoy them (even if no Scottish connections).
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be >it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion: >what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on >>> their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be >> it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion: >> what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
What worries me about most funiculars is they only ever seem to have one cable
so you're reliant on that single point of failure. Lifts OTOH have multiple redundant cables , often 6 or more from what I've seen. Before the Lisbon accident a single cable might have seemed adequate - not so much now.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC)
What worries me about most funiculars is they only ever seem to have one cable
so you're reliant on that single point of failure. Lifts OTOH have multiple >> redundant cables , often 6 or more from what I've seen. Before the Lisbon
accident a single cable might have seemed adequate - not so much now.
I don?t think multiple cables would work with any but the straightest, shortest funiculars. The cables run over many pulleys en-route.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion: >what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC)
What worries me about most funiculars is they only ever seem to have one >cable
so you're reliant on that single point of failure. Lifts OTOH have multiple
redundant cables , often 6 or more from what I've seen. Before the Lisbon >>> accident a single cable might have seemed adequate - not so much now.
I don?t think multiple cables would work with any but the straightest,
shortest funiculars. The cables run over many pulleys en-route.
Here?s an example of why multiple cables couldn?t be used:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/29048312520/in/album-72157672169443411/l
ightbox/
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 11:18:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC)
What worries me about most funiculars is they only ever seem to have one >> cable
so you're reliant on that single point of failure. Lifts OTOH have multiple
redundant cables , often 6 or more from what I've seen. Before the Lisbon >>>> accident a single cable might have seemed adequate - not so much now.
I don?t think multiple cables would work with any but the straightest,
shortest funiculars. The cables run over many pulleys en-route.
Here?s an example of why multiple cables couldn?t be used:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/29048312520/in/album-72157672169443411/l
ightbox/
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require
some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable.
The only real issue I can think of is slack occuring on one cable or the other as it goes around bends but then that should be balanced by extra opposite tension on the car coming down.
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on >>> their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion: >> what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
Those have a simple (straight, separate tracks) arrangement that allows a second rope. But longer funiculars that are
mainly single track, with a short passing loop in the middle, don't have that luxury.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion: what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff >>>>> railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running >>>>> rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on >>>> their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion: >>> what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
Those have a simple (straight, separate tracks) arrangement that allows a
second rope. But longer funiculars that are
mainly single track, with a short passing loop in the middle, don't have that luxury.
That describes Lynton too - two tracks, double rope - and it?s that that Boltar is worrying about.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
That describes Lynton too - two tracks, double rope - and it?s that that
Boltar is worrying about.
Such funiculars are basically inclined lifts, so there?s room for dual
ropes. It?s not so easy with curving, single track funiculars:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/49445083136/in/album-72157712845039492/lightbox/
On 2026-04-22 9:10 a.m., Recliner wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
That describes Lynton too - two tracks, double rope - and it?s that that >>> Boltar is worrying about.
Such funiculars are basically inclined lifts, so there?s room for dual
ropes. It?s not so easy with curving, single track funiculars:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/49445083136/in/album-72157712845039492/lightbox/
Last one unfortunately requires sign-in...
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff
railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running
rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on >>> their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running rail.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion: >> what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
I would expect that they use the 'standard' system with overspeed-triggered brakes which clamp the sides of the rail.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which
requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff >>>>> railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running >>>>> rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion:
what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
Those have a simple (straight, separate tracks) arrangement that allows a >> second rope. But longer funiculars that are
mainly single track, with a short passing loop in the middle, don't have that luxury.
That describes Lynton too - two tracks, double rope - and it?s that that Boltar is worrying about.
Such funiculars are basically inclined lifts
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require
some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable.
Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
The only real issue I can think of is slack occuring on one cable or the
other as it goes around bends but then that should be balanced by extra
opposite tension on the car coming down.
It seems all the Swiss and Austrian railway engineers think it?s more >difficult than you do. But what do they know?
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on >>> their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be >it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and >there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >rail.
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
it.Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on >>> their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and >there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
it.their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll >be
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and >> >there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running
rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009 >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >happened under self-control and simplification rules.
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:32:24 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require >>> some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable.
Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
The only real issue I can think of is slack occuring on one cable or the >>> other as it goes around bends but then that should be balanced by extra
opposite tension on the car coming down.
It seems all the Swiss and Austrian railway engineers think it?s more
difficult than you do. But what do they know?
I suspect the only thing stopping them is cost. A single cable has worked for 150 years so why change? Except when it fails of course.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:32:24 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require >>>> some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable. >>>Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
The only real issue I can think of is slack occuring on one cable or the >>>> other as it goes around bends but then that should be balanced by extra >>>> opposite tension on the car coming down.
It seems all the Swiss and Austrian railway engineers think it?s more
difficult than you do. But what do they know?
I suspect the only thing stopping them is cost. A single cable has worked for
150 years so why change? Except when it fails of course.
It?s so reassuring that we have the world?s finest railway engineer >contributing to this group!
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:46:12 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:32:24 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require >>>>> some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable. >>>>Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
Why would the points be a problem?
The only real issue I can think of is slack occuring on one cable or the >>>>> other as it goes around bends but then that should be balanced by extra >>>>> opposite tension on the car coming down.
It seems all the Swiss and Austrian railway engineers think it?s more
difficult than you do. But what do they know?
I suspect the only thing stopping them is cost. A single cable has worked for
150 years so why change? Except when it fails of course.
It?s so reassuring that we have the world?s finest railway engineer
contributing to this group!
And what are your qualifications to criticise?
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:46:12 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:32:24 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require >>>> some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable. >>>Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
Why would the points be a problem?
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:04:58 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 14:54:45 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:49:26 GMTfr
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>>boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Thats a bit worrying. A funicular derailing can be a damn site more >>>dangerous
situation than a normal train if it starts heading back down the >mountain.
Depends on the mountain and on the length of section.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Portet-Saint-Simon_%C3%A0_Puigcerda_(
o
nti%C3%A8re)#Probl%C3%A8me_d'adh%C3%A9rence
Thats not a funicular.
I did not say it was.
Then I don't understand your point. Plenty of funiculars don't have brakes on
the running wheels, only on the cog, so if the cog comes out of the rack >>then you're in trouble.
Funiculars never have a cog or rack!
Fair point.
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:04:58 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 14:54:45 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote: >>>
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:49:26 GMTmountain.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Thats a bit worrying. A funicular derailing can be a damn site more >>>>> dangerous
situation than a normal train if it starts heading back down the
fr
Depends on the mountain and on the length of section.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Portet-Saint-Simon_%C3%A0_Puigcerda_(
o
nti%C3%A8re)#Probl%C3%A8me_d'adh%C3%A9rence
Thats not a funicular.
I did not say it was.
Then I don't understand your point. Plenty of funiculars don't have brakes on
the running wheels, only on the cog, so if the cog comes out of the rack >>>> then you're in trouble.
Funiculars never have a cog or rack!
Fair point.
I dare to disagree.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File:Wiesbaden_Nerobergbahn_Gleis_Detail_2010-05-01_16.58.13.jpg
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:46:12 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:32:24 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require >>>>>> some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable. >>>>>Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
Why would the points be a problem?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File:2012.09.24.114339_Abfahrt_Nerobergbahn_Neroberg_Wiesbaden.jpg
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:04:58 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 14:54:45 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote: >>>
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:49:26 GMTmountain.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Thats a bit worrying. A funicular derailing can be a damn site more >>>>> dangerous
situation than a normal train if it starts heading back down the
fr
Depends on the mountain and on the length of section.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Portet-Saint-Simon_%C3%A0_Puigcerda_(
o
nti%C3%A8re)#Probl%C3%A8me_d'adh%C3%A9rence
Thats not a funicular.
I did not say it was.
Then I don't understand your point. Plenty of funiculars don't have brakes on
the running wheels, only on the cog, so if the cog comes out of the rack >>>> then you're in trouble.
Funiculars never have a cog or rack!
Fair point.
I dare to disagree.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File:Wiesbaden_Nerobergbahn_Gleis_Detail_2010-05-01_16.58.13.jpg
That?s a water powered funicular, so what does the rack do? Is it for emergency braking?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:04:58 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 14:54:45 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote: >>>>>
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:49:26 GMTfr
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Thats a bit worrying. A funicular derailing can be a damn site more >>>>>>> dangerous
situation than a normal train if it starts heading back down the >>>>> mountain.
Depends on the mountain and on the length of section.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Portet-Saint-Simon_%C3%A0_Puigcerda_(
o
nti%C3%A8re)#Probl%C3%A8me_d'adh%C3%A9rence
Thats not a funicular.
I did not say it was.
Then I don't understand your point. Plenty of funiculars don't have brakes on
the running wheels, only on the cog, so if the cog comes out of the rack >>>>>> then you're in trouble.
Funiculars never have a cog or rack!
Fair point.
I dare to disagree.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File:Wiesbaden_Nerobergbahn_Gleis_Detail_2010-05-01_16.58.13.jpg
That?s a water powered funicular, so what does the rack do? Is it for
emergency braking?
Yes, it is.
Independant systems, anyone?
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:46:12 GMT
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
Why would the points be a problem?
Have you even looked at the layout?
It?s so reassuring that we have the world?s finest railway engineer
contributing to this group!
And what are your qualifications to criticise?
A couple more engineering degrees than you have.
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:46:12 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:32:24 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require
some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable. >> >>>Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
Why would the points be a problem?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File
:2012.09.24.114339_Abfahrt_Nerobergbahn_Neroberg_Wiesbaden.jpg
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 10:28:40 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:46:12 GMT
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
Why would the points be a problem?
Have you even looked at the layout?
Yes. Why would the points be a problem? Let?s hear your wonderful reasoning.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on >very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on >> very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
I think we can put this alongside your "Walk through tube trains are impossible"
nonsense, a few years before Seimens went and built one. :)
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 10:28:42 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:46:12 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:32:24 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
By couldn't I assume you mean it would be more complex and would require
some redesign of the points and extra set of rollers for the 2nd cable. >>>>>>Look more closely at the angles of the pulleys.
What about them? You have one cable on the left , one on the right.
And what happens at the points?
Why would the points be a problem?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File
:2012.09.24.114339_Abfahrt_Nerobergbahn_Neroberg_Wiesbaden.jpg
Not seeinfg the problem. Obviously you'd have to have 2 sets of rollers in slightly differerent positions to the ones in the picture or just one fat roller.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:36:00 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:05 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 15:45:35 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe >>>>>>> wrote:
Fair point. If the cable snaps as per Lisbon.ISTR there is/was at least one with a rail used for braking which >>>>>>> requires tension on the cable to keep the safety brake off. The cliff >>>>>>> railway at Lynton has a brake which lifts the wheels off the running >>>>>>> rails by 2mm -
https://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/about/how-it-works/
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll be it.
I could look it up but I?ll ask the question here to stimulate discussion:
what are the safety arrangments at Bridgnorth and Saltburn like?
Those have a simple (straight, separate tracks) arrangement that allows a >>>> second rope. But longer funiculars that are
mainly single track, with a short passing loop in the middle, don't have that luxury.
That describes Lynton too - two tracks, double rope - and it?s that that >>> Boltar is worrying about.
Such funiculars are basically inclined lifts
But for most of them without proper shaft/hoistway.
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
it.their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll >> be
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and >>>> there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >>>> rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >> happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and >>> >there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >>> >rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009 >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >>happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and >>>>> there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >>>>> rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >>> happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow
Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the
airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >> sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >> without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with
security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
On 23/04/2026 19:53, Sam Wilson wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes >>>>>>>> working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but >>>>>>>> that'll
it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the
speed, and
there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the
running
rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >>>> happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow
Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of
the
airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line
extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these
work
sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of
cable out
without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with
security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards
Cross
tunnel and its collapse.ÿ One of our regulars took excellent photos.
The later stages of the discussion are saved here <https://uk.railway.narkive.com/uuojwrya/new-pictures-of-gerrards-cross-tunnel-collapse>
Unfortunately, the photo site is now dead.ÿ A few of the pictures are
still available here and through its links, though most are broken. <https://web.archive.org/web/20070324095105if_/http://www.meadwaypark.co.uk/TescoTunnel/index.html>
On 23/04/2026 20:37, Certes wrote:
On 23/04/2026 19:53, Sam Wilson wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes >>>>>>>>> working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but >>>>>>>>> that'll
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the
speed, and
there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the >>>>>>> running
rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon. >>>>>
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays
happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >>>> Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of >>>> the
airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line
extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these >>>> work
sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of
cable out
without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>>> security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards
Cross
tunnel and its collapse.ÿ One of our regulars took excellent photos.
The later stages of the discussion are saved here
<https://uk.railway.narkive.com/uuojwrya/new-pictures-of-gerrards-cross-tunnel-collapse>
Unfortunately, the photo site is now dead.ÿ A few of the pictures are
still available here and through its links, though most are broken.
<https://web.archive.org/web/20070324095105if_/http://www.meadwaypark.co.uk/TescoTunnel/index.html>
...and more discussion, again with many dead photo links <https://uk.railway.narkive.com/8LLnj7by/review-of-gerrards-cross-tunnel> <https://uk.railway.narkive.com/LWBPLNW1/collapse-of-gerrards-cross-tunnel-update>
<https://uk.railway.narkive.com/jtrETVgN/gerrards-cross-tesco-tunnel> <https://uk.railway.narkive.com/iNRHe3qy/tunnel-collapse-at-gerrards-cross>
Was it really 20 years ago? I was just a lurker in those days but
remember reading the threads and browsing the linked pictures.
On 23/04/2026 19:53, Sam Wilson wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and
there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >>>>>> rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >>>> happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow
Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>> airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>> was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >>> sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >>> without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with
security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross >> tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
The later stages of the discussion are saved here <https://uk.railway.narkive.com/uuojwrya/new-pictures-of-gerrards-cross-tunnel-collapse>
Unfortunately, the photo site is now dead. A few of the pictures are
still available here and through its links, though most are broken. <https://web.archive.org/web/20070324095105if_/http://www.meadwaypark.co.uk/TescoTunnel/index.html>
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:04:58 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 14:54:45 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote: >>>>
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:49:26 GMTmountain.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Thats a bit worrying. A funicular derailing can be a damn site more >>>>>> dangerous
situation than a normal train if it starts heading back down the
fr
Depends on the mountain and on the length of section.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Portet-Saint-Simon_%C3%A0_Puigcerda_(
o
nti%C3%A8re)#Probl%C3%A8me_d'adh%C3%A9rence
Thats not a funicular.
I did not say it was.
Then I don't understand your point. Plenty of funiculars don't have brakes on
the running wheels, only on the cog, so if the cog comes out of the rack >>>>> then you're in trouble.
Funiculars never have a cog or rack!
Fair point.
I dare to disagree.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File:Wiesbaden_Nerobergbahn_Gleis_Detail_2010-05-01_16.58.13.jpg
That?s a water powered funicular, so what does the rack do? Is it for emergency braking?
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on >>> very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked >>> to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 16:04:58 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 14:54:45 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote: >>>>>
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:49:26 GMTfr
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Thats a bit worrying. A funicular derailing can be a damn site more >>>>>>> dangerous
situation than a normal train if it starts heading back down the >>>>> mountain.
Depends on the mountain and on the length of section.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Portet-Saint-Simon_%C3%A0_Puigcerda_(
o
nti%C3%A8re)#Probl%C3%A8me_d'adh%C3%A9rence
Thats not a funicular.
I did not say it was.
Then I don't understand your point. Plenty of funiculars don't have brakes on
the running wheels, only on the cog, so if the cog comes out of the rack >>>>>> then you're in trouble.
Funiculars never have a cog or rack!
Fair point.
I dare to disagree.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nerobergbahn?uselang=de#/media/File:Wiesbaden_Nerobergbahn_Gleis_Detail_2010-05-01_16.58.13.jpg
That?s a water powered funicular, so what does the rack do? Is it for
emergency braking?
A handful of funiculars have a rack rail for brakes for speed regulation
and also emergency braking.
I've not yet ridden on any which are equipped in this manner!
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >>>> period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on >>>> very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked >>>> to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees: >>>
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge.
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the
passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the
line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on >>> very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked >>> to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge.
I think we can put this alongside your "Walk through tube trains are >impossible"
nonsense, a few years before Seimens went and built one. :)
The nonsense is all yours. What I actually said, and have repeatedly
reminded you of, is that Tube size trains with through gangways need to be >articulated. That?s been known for over three decades, and was proposed for
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow
Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the
airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >> sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >> without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with
security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross >tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:12:23 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >>Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >>sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >>without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.Or someone noticed a gap in the security that was management's fault
rather than the security staff.
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 16:04:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >>>> period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on >>>> very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked >>>> to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees: >>>
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive!
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge.
Uh huh.
I think we can put this alongside your "Walk through tube trains areimpossible"
nonsense, a few years before Seimens went and built one. :)
The nonsense is all yours. What I actually said, and have repeatedly
reminded you of, is that Tube size trains with through gangways need to be >> articulated. That?s been known for over three decades, and was proposed for
You've never provided evidence for why that should be and various stock on the paris metro which are the same width as tube trains, albeit slightly higher,
prove otherwise.
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 18:53:22 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow
Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>> airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>> was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >>> sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out
without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>> security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross >> tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
I'd forgotten about that. IIRC the locals really weren't happy about covering up the line but I bet they all shop at the supermarket that was built on top of it.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive!
AND has worked out how they do it ? by not having cut-outs, so it?s not >single track at the top, and the bottom points have the cables sliding over >the rails. Very poor engineering, almost worthy of you!
You've never provided evidence for why that should be and various stock on >> the paris metro which are the same width as tube trains, albeit slightly >higher,
prove otherwise.
As always, the self-proclaimed great engineer Boltar thinks he knows about >railway engineering than all the world?s professional rail engineers.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:18:26 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive!
AND has worked out how they do it ? by not having cut-outs, so it?s not
single track at the top, and the bottom points have the cables sliding over >> the rails. Very poor engineering, almost worthy of you!
Irrelevant. You claimed it was impossible citing your multiple engineering degrees as some kind of gravitas. I'm presuming you barely scraped a 3rd in all of them.
You've never provided evidence for why that should be and various stock on >>> the paris metro which are the same width as tube trains, albeit slightlyhigher,
prove otherwise.
As always, the self-proclaimed great engineer Boltar thinks he knows about >> railway engineering than all the world?s professional rail engineers.
You're really going with that line again while you're still scraping the large
omelette off your face after using it the other day?
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:18:26 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive!
AND has worked out how they do it ? by not having cut-outs, so it?s not
single track at the top, and the bottom points have the cables sliding over >>> the rails. Very poor engineering, almost worthy of you!
Irrelevant. You claimed it was impossible citing your multiple engineering >> degrees as some kind of gravitas. I'm presuming you barely scraped a 3rd in >> all of them.
Distinctions in both. And a DIC to boot.
As always, the self-proclaimed great engineer Boltar thinks he knows about >>> railway engineering than all the world?s professional rail engineers.
You're really going with that line again while you're still scraping the >large
omelette off your face after using it the other day?
Huh? Show me where I?ve been wrong on any engineering issue.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:34:13 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:18:26 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
AND has worked out how they do it ? by not having cut-outs, so it?s not >>>> single track at the top, and the bottom points have the cables sliding overLooks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>>Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive! >>>>
the rails. Very poor engineering, almost worthy of you!
Irrelevant. You claimed it was impossible citing your multiple engineering >>> degrees as some kind of gravitas. I'm presuming you barely scraped a 3rd in
all of them.
Distinctions in both. And a DIC to boot.
Oh yeah? And whats a DIC, Daves Internal Combustion maintenance course >certificate?
As always, the self-proclaimed great engineer Boltar thinks he knows about >>>> railway engineering than all the world?s professional rail engineers.
You're really going with that line again while you're still scraping the >>large
omelette off your face after using it the other day?
Huh? Show me where I?ve been wrong on any engineering issue.
Now you're just trolling.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 10:23:02 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote: >>>Distinctions in both. And a DIC to boot.
Oh yeah? And whats a DIC, Daves Internal Combustion maintenance course >>certificate?
Thank you for confirming your ignorance.
You're really going with that line again while you're still scraping the >>>large
omelette off your face after using it the other day?
Huh? Show me where I?ve been wrong on any engineering issue.
Now you're just trolling.
Which confirms that you can't.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >>>>> period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked >>>>> to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees: >>>>
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge.
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the
passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points >> at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop
don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail >> wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the
line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t
set a fashion!
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >>>>>> period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees: >>>>>
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>> also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge.
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the
passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points >>> at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop >>> don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of >>> the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail >>> wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the
line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the >> lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked >> with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t
set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two
cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work with curved track.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and >>>>> there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >>>>> rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >>> happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow
Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the
airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >> sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >> without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with
security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
On 23/04/2026 19:53, Sam Wilson wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and
there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running >>>>>> rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon.
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays >>>> happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow
Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>> airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>> was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >>> sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >>> without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with
security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross >> tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
And another regular with alleged civil engineering expertise, couldn't
work out why it collapsed!
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 18:59:07 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:12:23 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >>>Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>>airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>>was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >>>sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out >>>without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>>security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.Or someone noticed a gap in the security that was management's fault
rather than the security staff.
Maybe. Either way you don't get literally tons of material off a work site >without someone noticing whether they work in security or not.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 23/04/2026 19:53, Sam Wilson wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and
there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running
rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon. >>>>>
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays
happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >>>> Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>>> airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>>> was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >>>> sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out
without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>>> security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross >>> tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
And another regular with alleged civil engineering expertise, couldn't
work out why it collapsed!
Was that the chap who ran a post office? Can?t recall his name now .
Think he thought he was an expert on photography as well.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 23/04/2026 19:53, Sam Wilson wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and
there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running
rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon. >>>>>>
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays
happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >>>>> Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>>>> airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>>>> was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work
sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out
without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>>>> security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross >>>> tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos.
And another regular with alleged civil engineering expertise, couldn't
work out why it collapsed!
Was that the chap who ran a post office? Can?t recall his name now .
Think he thought he was an expert on photography as well.
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 23/04/2026 19:53, Sam Wilson wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 08:37:17 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:02:39 -0000 (UTC)be
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Thats a hell of an incline. I really don't see friction brakes working on
their own if the cable snapped. They might slow the car down but that'll
Sometimes authority-done testing appears to be more effective.it.
The link provided states that those brakes are to regulate the speed, and
there is a second braking system which clamps either side of the running
rail.
Lets hope their brake testing is a bit more rigorous than in Lisbon. >>>>>>>
This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Archive_of_the_City_of_Cologne#Collaps
e_of_the_archive_in_2009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Stadtbahn#Tunnel_collapse_and_delays
happened under self-control and simplification rules.
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >>>>>> Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the
airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension
was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work
sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable out
without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>>>>> security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Some years ago we had a long running discussion here of the Gerrards Cross
tunnel and its collapse. One of our regulars took excellent photos. >>>>>
And another regular with alleged civil engineering expertise, couldn't >>>> work out why it collapsed!
Was that the chap who ran a post office? Can?t recall his name now .
Think he thought he was an expert on photography as well.
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >>>>>>> period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>> also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge.
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the
passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points >>>> at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop >>>> don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of >>>> the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail >>>> wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the >>>> line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but >>> hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the >>> lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked >>> with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two
cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >> with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how
it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved.
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal funiculars
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >>>>>>>> period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>>> also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop >>>>> don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of >>>>> the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the >>>>> line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but >>>> hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked >>>> with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two
cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >>> with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like >> there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would
automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how
it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless
it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved.
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal
funiculars
Some of the photos on this page <https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also.
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track turnouts."
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
On 24/04/2026 22:09, Marland wrote:
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
A more horrible toxic person could not be found.
I really hope he wasnt like that in real life.
He was another one who was full of shit, but thought he knew
everything, and when his (many) failings were pointed out, it was
always the other person who was wrong.
In message <10shln5$kbpi$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:07:33 on Sat, 25 Apr
2026, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
On 24/04/2026 22:09, Marland wrote:
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
A more horrible toxic person could not be found.
I really hope he wasnt like that in real life.
He was another one who was full of shit, but thought he knew
everything, and when his (many) failings were pointed out, it was
always the other person who was wrong.
We should never forget the Dunning-Kruger effect, which rears its head
far too often.
Maybe there ought to be name for the opposite, where people who really
do have skills in multiple areas suffer disbelief that such a thing is possible.
I still get people who are determined to pigeon-hole me as either a
software or hardware engineer, when I'm rather good at both. Although
I get a lot more done if putting on a hat as a project manager and supervising a mixed-talented team, rather than having to do everything myself.
There are Hollywood actors who turn out to also be quite good film producers/directors, but probably not so much the other way round.
Meanwhile, YouTube is flooded with people who know a lot about a
particular specialist subject, but are terrible cameramen. I blame my
GF, who invented the concept of putting a camera into a phone. Although
if she hadn't done that first, someone else would have inevitably done
it later.
Serious philosophical point: Does that make it a "discovery" (cf Newton
and Gravity) rather than an "invention"?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticedthe
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked >> with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t
set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two
cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >with curved track.
Another method which doesn't involve security staff is the staff on
site not taking the full amount of a part lorryload of material (e.g.
9 pallets of bricks instead of ten from a lorryload of 20), something
else that can carry on until the resultant discrepancy becomes
apparent.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:07:42 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 18:59:07 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 09:12:23 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
Similar things have happened here. When they were building the Heathrow >>>Express tunnels in the mid 90s part of one collapsed in the middle of the >>>airport. Luckily not under a runway. Also when the Jubilee Line extension >>>was built there was apparently a load of theft of cables. Since these work >>>sites are all secure and its rather hard to get larges amounts of cable outOr someone noticed a gap in the security that was management's fault >>rather than the security staff.
without anyone noticing it was obviously some kind organised theft with >>>security in on it. AFAIK no one was ever arrested.
Maybe. Either way you don't get literally tons of material off a work site >without someone noticing whether they work in security or not.
Security staff tend to watch the gates with a bias toward querying
who/what is entering not leaving.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:31:43 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
Another method which doesn't involve security staff is the staff on
site not taking the full amount of a part lorryload of material (e.g.
9 pallets of bricks instead of ten from a lorryload of 20), something
else that can carry on until the resultant discrepancy becomes
apparent.
That sounds a lot easier to pull off rather than physically taking stuff offsite again.
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in
the Horizon debacle?
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:31:43 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
Another method which doesn't involve security staff is the staff on
site not taking the full amount of a part lorryload of material (e.g.
9 pallets of bricks instead of ten from a lorryload of 20), something
else that can carry on until the resultant discrepancy becomes
apparent.
That sounds a lot easier to pull off rather than physically taking stuff
offsite again.
Bad stuff, wasn't useful...
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in
the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the
years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 09:02:21 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:31:43 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
Another method which doesn't involve security staff is the staff on
site not taking the full amount of a part lorryload of material (e.g.
9 pallets of bricks instead of ten from a lorryload of 20), something
else that can carry on until the resultant discrepancy becomes
apparent.
That sounds a lot easier to pull off rather than physically taking stuff >> offsite again.
Bad stuff, wasn't useful...
What?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 09:02:21 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:31:43 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> gabbled:
Another method which doesn't involve security staff is the staff on
site not taking the full amount of a part lorryload of material (e.g.
9 pallets of bricks instead of ten from a lorryload of 20), something
else that can carry on until the resultant discrepancy becomes
apparent.
That sounds a lot easier to pull off rather than physically taking stuff >> >> offsite again.
Bad stuff, wasn't useful...
What?
A reason that might apply or just been told for
taking stuff offsite again...
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:34:13 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:18:26 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
AND has worked out how they do it ? by not having cut-outs, so it?s not >>>> single track at the top, and the bottom points have the cables sliding overLooks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>>Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive! >>>>
the rails. Very poor engineering, almost worthy of you!
Irrelevant. You claimed it was impossible citing your multiple engineering >>> degrees as some kind of gravitas. I'm presuming you barely scraped a 3rd in
all of them.
Distinctions in both. And a DIC to boot.
Oh yeah? And whats a DIC, Daves Internal Combustion maintenance course certificate?
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:34:13 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:18:26 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
AND has worked out how they do it ? by not having cut-outs, so it?s not >>>>> single track at the top, and the bottom points have the cables sliding overLooks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>>>Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive! >>>>>
the rails. Very poor engineering, almost worthy of you!
Irrelevant. You claimed it was impossible citing your multiple engineering >>>> degrees as some kind of gravitas. I'm presuming you barely scraped a 3rd in
all of them.
Distinctions in both. And a DIC to boot.
Oh yeah? And whats a DIC, Daves Internal Combustion maintenance course
certificate?
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:34:13 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 09:18:26 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
AND has worked out how they do it ? by not having cut-outs, so it?s not >>>>>> single track at the top, and the bottom points have the cables sliding overLooks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
Wow, back pedalling and goal post moving in one sentence. Impressive! >>>>>>
the rails. Very poor engineering, almost worthy of you!
Irrelevant. You claimed it was impossible citing your multiple engineering
degrees as some kind of gravitas. I'm presuming you barely scraped a 3rd in
all of them.
Distinctions in both. And a DIC to boot.
Oh yeah? And whats a DIC, Daves Internal Combustion maintenance course
certificate?
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in
the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the
years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer.
Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>>
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the
years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer.
Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age related health issues.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
In message <10shvbu$msal$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:52:14 on Sat, 25 Apr
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
I think Polson was retired in somewhere like Yorkshire, and may have
passed away perhaps ten years go.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
Yup.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Not so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because
they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I
first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that >> is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age >> then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have >> been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now
be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age
related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost >certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever >reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly >disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for
an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall).
he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home. >That may well be the fate of some former members here.
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because >they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I >first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that >is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age >then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have >been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMTPolson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>
the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the
years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer.
Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age >related health issues.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>>>
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the >>>> years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer.
Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I
first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that >> is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age >> then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have >> been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now
be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age
related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost >certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever >reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly >disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for
an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall).
In another forum where I?m active, one fairly frequent poster gradually
faded away. There was some indirect contact with him via his family, and
the initial news was that he was having problems with his computer, which >would soon be sorted. Later, we learned that he had had falls. Now we know
he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home. >That may well be the fate of some former members here.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 16:03:49 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed >>the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked >>> with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >>with curved track.
Why not? Just have higher flanges on the rollers so the cables can't jump out.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 11:56:29 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
Yup.
A very unfortunately acronym. Wonder if they came up with it with a knowing >smile and only gave it to "special" students.
In message <n53p81Fpv3jU1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:09:37 on Sat, 25
Apr 2026, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now
be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age >>related health issues.
For example Cliff Stanford, he of the pink Rolls Royce, demonic
companies, and allegedly considerable "wandering hand trouble",
was very much the Father of Usenet propagation in the UK. Passed
away aged 67 in Estonia of all places, in 2022.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 08:48:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 16:03:49 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed
the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have >worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >>>with curved track.
Why not? Just have higher flanges on the rollers so the cables can't jump out.
Have you looked at the pulleys on the passing loops in the images I posted?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 14:05:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 11:56:29 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
Yup.
A very unfortunately acronym. Wonder if they came up with it with a knowing >>smile and only gave it to "special" students.
It dates back to 1912, long before slang term you use.
In message <pI3HR.14070$9Bdc.4906@fx09.ams1>, at 13:54:29 on Sat, 25 Apr 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because >>> they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I >>> first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that >>> is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age >>> then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have >>> been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now >>> be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>>>>
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the >>>>> years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer.
Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost
certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever >> reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly
disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for
an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall). >>
In another forum where I?m active, one fairly frequent poster gradually
faded away. There was some indirect contact with him via his family, and
the initial news was that he was having problems with his computer, which
would soon be sorted. Later, we learned that he had had falls. Now we know >> he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home. >> That may well be the fate of some former members here.
I know of at least two very regular Usenet posters who suddenly fell
silent, and a week or two later when their front door was bashed down
at the behest of concerned individuals, turned out to have died,
almost literally at their keyboards.
Another posted a suicide note, but rapid help called by concerned
friends meant he survived, and I think is still going strong today.
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I
went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:58:25 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 08:48:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 16:03:49 -0000 (UTC)worked
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed >>the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >>>> with curved track.
Why not? Just have higher flanges on the rollers so the cables can't jump out.
Have you looked at the pulleys on the passing loops in the images I posted?
Here we go again. Sorry, not going to play.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <pI3HR.14070$9Bdc.4906@fx09.ams1>, at 13:54:29 on Sat, 25 Apr
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because >>>> they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I >>>> first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>>>>>
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>>>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the >>>>>> years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer.
Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age
then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have >>>> been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now >>>> be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age >>>> related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost >>> certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever >>> reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly >>> disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for >>> an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall). >>>
In another forum where I?m active, one fairly frequent poster gradually
faded away. There was some indirect contact with him via his family, and >>> the initial news was that he was having problems with his computer, which >>> would soon be sorted. Later, we learned that he had had falls. Now we know >>> he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home. >>> That may well be the fate of some former members here.
I know of at least two very regular Usenet posters who suddenly fell
silent, and a week or two later when their front door was bashed down
at the behest of concerned individuals, turned out to have died,
almost literally at their keyboards.
Another posted a suicide note, but rapid help called by concerned
friends meant he survived, and I think is still going strong today.
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I
went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >to go.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:05:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 14:05:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 11:56:29 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
Yup.
A very unfortunately acronym. Wonder if they came up with it with a knowing >>>smile and only gave it to "special" students.
It dates back to 1912, long before slang term you use.
You might want to check your sources there.
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not to go.
Sam
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not to go.
Sam
His circumstance was unusual in that he told us he was going under the surgeons knife and there would be a break in his postings
I think Polson was retired in somewhere like Yorkshire, and may haveYes, the last reference to him that I can find was in West Yorkshire
passed away perhaps ten years go.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >> went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >> to go.
Sam
His circumstance was unusual in that he told us he was going under the surgeons knife and there would be a break in his postings , a friend then came onto this group and no doubt others to inform us all had not gone
well.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:35:03 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson ><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:...
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:We also know about the late Michael Bell, and Colin R from Cambridge.
In message <pI3HR.14070$9Bdc.4906@fx09.ams1>, at 13:54:29 on Sat, 25 Apr >>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>>>>>>
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>>>>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the >>>>>>> years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer. >>>>>>
just because they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will >>>>>have died. , I think I first started using Usenet shortly before >>>>>Windows 95 came into use and that is now 30 years ago. Someone who >>>>>had retired earlier than state pension age then say 60 years would >>>>>now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have been a few >>>>>computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now be
in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost >>>> certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever >>>> reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly >>>> disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for >>>> an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall).
In another forum where I?m active, one fairly frequent poster gradually >>>> faded away. There was some indirect contact with him via his family, and >>>> the initial news was that he was having problems with his computer, which >>>> would soon be sorted. Later, we learned that he had had falls. Now we know >>>> he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home.
That may well be the fate of some former members here.
I know of at least two very regular Usenet posters who suddenly fell
silent, and a week or two later when their front door was bashed down
at the behest of concerned individuals, turned out to have died,
almost literally at their keyboards.
Another posted a suicide note, but rapid help called by concerned
friends meant he survived, and I think is still going strong today.
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I
went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I >>think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >>went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >>to go.
Here's a few more once-frequent posters who have not, I think, been
active here lately:
Ian Batten
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
On 25/04/2026 15:05, Recliner wrote:
I think Polson was retired in somewhere like Yorkshire, and may haveYes, the last reference to him that I can find was in West Yorkshire
passed away perhaps ten years go.
From what I recall he was moving to the West Highlands of Scotland.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:35:03 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:We also know about the late Michael Bell, and Colin R from Cambridge.
In message <pI3HR.14070$9Bdc.4906@fx09.ams1>, at 13:54:29 on Sat, 25 Apr >>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because >>>>> they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I >>>>> first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>>>>>>
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>>>>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the >>>>>>> years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer. >>>>>>
is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age
then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have
been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now >>>>> be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age >>>>> related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost >>>> certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever >>>> reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly >>>> disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for >>>> an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall).
In another forum where I?m active, one fairly frequent poster gradually >>>> faded away. There was some indirect contact with him via his family, and >>>> the initial news was that he was having problems with his computer, which >>>> would soon be sorted. Later, we learned that he had had falls. Now we know >>>> he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home.
That may well be the fate of some former members here.
I know of at least two very regular Usenet posters who suddenly fell
silent, and a week or two later when their front door was bashed down
at the behest of concerned individuals, turned out to have died,
almost literally at their keyboards.
Another posted a suicide note, but rapid help called by concerned
friends meant he survived, and I think is still going strong today.
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I
went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >> went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >> to go.
Here's a few more once-frequent posters who have not, I think, been active here lately:
rail@greywall.demon.co.uk
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >>> went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >>> to go.
Sam
His circumstance was unusual in that he told us he was going under the
surgeons knife and there would be a break in his postings , a friend then
came onto this group and no doubt others to inform us all had not gone
well.
Indeed. He was a knowledgeable, amusing and courteous poster. I missed
him a lot. You can find obituaries if you search for them.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:11:05 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:05:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 14:05:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 11:56:29 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
Yup.
A very unfortunately acronym. Wonder if they came up with it with a knowing >>>>smile and only gave it to "special" students.
It dates back to 1912, long before slang term you use.
You might want to check your sources there.
Obviously, I did. But, inevitably, you didn't.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I
went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >to go.
Here we go again. Sorry, not going to play.
The point is that the pulleys are canted over to ensure that the cable is >guided around the curve of the passing loop, and presumably not to put >excessive side load on the pulley bearings. Just putting higher flanges on >wouldn?t have the desired effect.
Terry Scott <GeorgeHkent@tutanota.com> ..................... 595
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 08:52:14 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMTAdrian seems to be in Tucson, Arizona as recently as last year.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
Here's a few more once-frequent posters who have not, I think, been active here lately:
Andrew Clarke
Basil Jet
BirchangerKen
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 17:01:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
==================================================================
Contributors by total posts
==================================================================
Terry Scott <GeorgeHkent@tutanota.com> ..................... 595
Who?
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 17:01:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
==================================================================
Contributors by total posts
==================================================================
Terry Scott <GeorgeHkent@tutanota.com> ..................... 595
Who?
He was the former certified lunatic (literally) who had been confined to an asylum in Cambs for a period. At the time of his appearances here, he was temporarily living in Ukraine.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 17:01:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
==================================================================
Contributors by total posts
==================================================================
Terry Scott <GeorgeHkent@tutanota.com> ..................... 595
Who?
He was the former certified lunatic (literally) who had been confined to an >asylum in Cambs for a period. At the time of his appearances here, he was >temporarily living in Ukraine.
On Sun, 26 Apr 2026 11:05:06 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 17:01:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
==================================================================
Contributors by total posts
==================================================================
Terry Scott <GeorgeHkent@tutanota.com> ..................... 595
Who?
He was the former certified lunatic (literally) who had been confined to an >> asylum in Cambs for a period. At the time of his appearances here, he was
temporarily living in Ukraine.
I bet discussions with him were lively, shame I missed them. Its always fun winding up the swivelled eyed types.
On 26/04/2026 14:34, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2026 11:05:06 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 17:01:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
==================================================================
Contributors by total posts
==================================================================
Terry Scott <GeorgeHkent@tutanota.com> ..................... 595
Who?
He was the former certified lunatic (literally) who had been confined to an >>> asylum in Cambs for a period. At the time of his appearances here, he was >>> temporarily living in Ukraine.
I bet discussions with him were lively, shame I missed them. Its always fun >> winding up the swivelled eyed types.
I see what you mean, but I'd be reluctant to upset someone who had an
actual medical condition rather than just being obnoxious or boastful.
On 25/04/2026 16:41, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:35:03 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:We also know about the late Michael Bell, and Colin R from Cambridge.
In message <pI3HR.14070$9Bdc.4906@fx09.ams1>, at 13:54:29 on Sat, 25 Apr >>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>>>>>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the >>>>>>>> years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer. >>>>>>>
they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I
first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that
is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age
then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have
been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now >>>>>> be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age >>>>>> related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost >>>>> certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever
reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly >>>>> disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for >>>>> an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall).
In another forum where I?m active, one fairly frequent poster gradually >>>>> faded away. There was some indirect contact with him via his family, and >>>>> the initial news was that he was having problems with his computer, which >>>>> would soon be sorted. Later, we learned that he had had falls. Now we know
he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home.
That may well be the fate of some former members here.
I know of at least two very regular Usenet posters who suddenly fell
silent, and a week or two later when their front door was bashed down
at the behest of concerned individuals, turned out to have died,
almost literally at their keyboards.
Another posted a suicide note, but rapid help called by concerned
friends meant he survived, and I think is still going strong today.
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I >>>> went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >>> went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >>> to go.
Here's a few more once-frequent posters who have not, I think, been active here lately:
rail@greywall.demon.co.uk
I thought I was just about alive :-)
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 08:52:14 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMTAdrian seems to be in Tucson, Arizona as recently as last year.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
On 26/04/2026 12:05, Recliner wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 17:01:18 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
==================================================================
Contributors by total posts
==================================================================
Terry Scott <GeorgeHkent@tutanota.com> ..................... 595
Who?
He was the former certified lunatic (literally) who had been confined to an >> asylum in Cambs for a period. At the time of his appearances here, he was
temporarily living in Ukraine.
Was always complaining that MI5 wouldn't take him on.
On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:53:41 +0000, Recliner wrote:
Tweed <guesswho@who.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:As you?ve clearly identified him as having mental issues, would it not
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
In message <r2uvgf$jh1$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:48:47 on Sun, 23 Feb >>>>>> 2020, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
These stats are of course skewed by the current 'big thread';
it'd be interesting to compare to a more normal month.
Yes, it'd be interesting to see January's stats.
Alternatively just re-run February, but redacting that one thread. >>>>>>
It has significantly distorted the landscape.
Perhaps it is time for those like myself who have poked the twerp to >>>>> leave him alone with his delusions.
If his mental state is bad then he will be unmoved by discussion
anyway as he believes in his own story and that he is a superior
thinker to everyone else whose talents have been ignored.
As from now I will no longer stir up the sad sod.
Yes, I'll try to follow the same policy, but sometimes it's just too
tempting to have one more laugh?
Clearly, he has absolutely no self-awareness and actually thinks
we're discussing the behaviour of dead DJs, the police competence to
manage football crowds, the geography of Cambridge and how the
security services recruit people. He takes it all very seriously and
can't see that we're just amusing ourselves at his expense.
be wise to refrain from ?amusing ourselves at his expense?? It has
shades of Victorians visiting mental asylums for amusement.
Agreed, I didn't realise his mental issues when I first bantered with
him.
I should have desisted earlier when I did.
Well we've dealt with this. You're actually a coward recliner and not a
very bright one because of the following.
Read point 12 in particular about the fact that the government have just reached much the same conclusions as I have in relation to abuse. You disagree about this because you yourself are an abuser (hence your usage
of the words mental issues when this isn't the case=.
Well quite I should like to point to the following (and this is aimed in general.
1) They are cowards who have to speak behind people's backs in that they
are unable to respond to the issues (which I am about to highlighted
again) and they do not have the intelligence to respond to except by
abuse. They participate in abuse, deny abuse happened, and moreover say nothing about comments by those who claim Jimmy Savile is innocent on
the other thread. It is only a comment upon themselves and indeed
attitudes to such things in the UK.
2) Poking fun at my expense? No they really don't understand or have the self-awareness to realize the purpose of what I am doign. That thread constitutes a permanent record of statements made by people which, when
the UK has dissapeared, will partly outline the sort of attitudes which
led to its dissapearance. In particular the attitude towards innovation
is a damning and labelling such people as mad is a comment upon those individuals and indeed the UK.
3) Objectively I have a level of PR of 135 so according to the
scientific documents for which there is no counterevidence, the
diagnosis is specious
https://www.gchq-gov.org/2017/04/18/pr/
Unless there is counterevidence to the scientific documents contained in
that summary, then they should not comment because they sound and
confirm their own stupidity. No professional has managed to come up with
any counterevidence
4) Obviously a country which spits at people like me and claims that
those who have a greater ability to notice and to perceive certain
things which are inconvenient are "unwell" for political reasons will
soon end up weaker than those which do not have such a policy (by
default of some other means). Or indeed in the case of the UK, they will
end up with no country at all.
5) With respect to my "detention", obviously a good cover for potential recruitment is to do so whilst someone is detained, in that if that
person later claims that they worked for SIS you can simply point to
their supposed record. This is what occurred in this case
An account along with the recording of the attempt to recruit is given
here https://www.gchq-gov.org/2017/04/19/csd/
You will note on the recording that the lady apart from trying to
recruit me, being ever so slightly threatening, knows about my family background without me having mentioned it which indicates the fact that
she had access to personal details. It is not a subject I discussed
there at any point in particular because I did not know about family finances. You can discuss this at around 13:30 of the third recording.
6) The detention which I experienced occurred in relation to reports of harassment which they were not interested in listening to but which is admitted in my case and this also discounts it https://www.gchq-gov.org/2018/12/02/adtc/
it has occurred to others from the college which also discounts it https://www.gchq-gov.org/2018/10/11/asnm/
And is rather dodgy given the case of Gareth Williams who also comes
from the college https://www.gchq-gov.org/2017/04/19/mu/
It is thus specious and you would have to be particularly stupid not to realize that.
7) It would not have been feasible for me to have learnt how to program
and programmed something had I been ill! Nor indeed would I have
developed a method of communication of which some people are aware but
which I would rather not talk about here.
8) It occurred partly in relation to the events which occurred at
Pembroke college where the head of the college was an ex-head of MI6,
Sir Richard Dearlove was master and where harassment took place in that whilst I was at the college,I developed a method of tracking people
online on several geosocial networking apps due to the fact that I had
been experiencing harassment online and offline, as indeed had someone
else
Sir Richard Dearlove is of course responsible for heading an
organisation which was responsible for the WMD thing, so at the outset, particularly given that there is an admission who are you going to
beleive.
The harassment took off around this period
9) From my own college there was the head of counterterrorism at the FCO,Simon Shercliff during the period when the harassment began. He is presently the director of national security. he was preceded in this
role by the current deputy ambassador to the UN Johnathon Allan. The
college has had innumerable people who have worked on behalf of the intelligence services and indeed that's why people were invited to study
at the college and it is ever so slightly dodgy given their record and
the record of British intelligence in general to claim that I had been imagining things particularly when it is admitted.
10) Have they heard of the third direction? This is a government
directive whereby the government can allow agents (who can be anyone) to commit criminal acts which include murder rape and torture. It follows
that this has to be concealed and that as part of this and given the
fact that they can interfere in any way that they can order someone to
be detained.
11) If they are siding with Sir Richard Dearlove and the head of
national security at the foreign office and those who backed the IRaq
war and wish to laugh at me, then they really do not their heads
examined
12) Am I smarter than the people who engage in such abuse? I think most people are because its not that difficult.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/25/police-and-politicians- turned-blind-eye-to-westminster-child-abuse-claims-report
Political parties, police and prosecutors ?turned a blind eye? to
allegations of child sexual abuse connected to Westminster, ignored
victims and showed excessive ?deference? to MPs and ministers fighting
to clear their reputations, an investigation has found
?Nevertheless, it is clear that there have been significant failures by Westminster institutions in their responses to allegations of child
sexual abuse. This included failure to recognise it, turning a blind eye
to it, actively shielding and protecting child sexual abusers and
covering up allegations.?
Smith and Morrison were ?protected from prosecution in a number of ways, including by the police, the director of public prosecutions and
political parties?, it states.
It's funny how I should state what I state about abuse, then be abused
and be called "mad" and that someone else in authority should confirm
exactly what I have been stating and what people on here having denying
or minimizing.
And given this, it is self-evident that if we are talking about madness
and irrationality, it certainly cannot be said to apply to me but to
others (some of whom are on here) including yourself Recliner.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway >>>>>>>>
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>>>> also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop >>>>>> don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the >>>>>> line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but >>>>> hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >>>> with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like >>> there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would >>> automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how >>> it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless >>> it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved. >>>
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal >>> funiculars
Some of the photos on this page
<https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also.
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track >> turnouts."
Ingenious! I don?t think I?d have worked that out without help.
Thanks for more detective work!
I get the impression that there was a sudden riot of enthusiasm for
funicular and rack mountain railways in the 1890s, with the design
engineers either unaware of emerging best practice elsewhere, or simply determined to invent their own novel solutions. I almost wish I was among them!
But, pretty soon, a few standard designs became established, and the creativity faded. I suppose many of the more oddball designs are long-gone
or modernised, but a few eccentric survivors are preserved.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10shvbu$msal$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:52:14 on Sat, 25 Apr
2026, boltar@caprica.universe remarked:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
I think Polson was retired in somewhere like Yorkshire, and may have
passed away perhaps ten years go.
Yes, the last reference to him that I can find was in West Yorkshire. I
think he remained active in other forums for a while after disappearing
from here, but not recently.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:35:03 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <pI3HR.14070$9Bdc.4906@fx09.ams1>, at 13:54:29 on Sat, 25 Apr >>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2026 09:39:58 GMTNot so sure about the sadly, someone doesn?t become pleasant just because >>>>> they get old but yes a lot of earlier posters will have died. , I think I >>>>> first started using Usenet shortly before Windows 95 came into use and that
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:Probably safe to assume he's sadly died.
On 25/04/2026 09:52, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>>>>>>
Polson was running a sub-post office, I wonder if he got caught up in >>>>>>>> the Horizon debacle?
I think he developed some health issues and retired from it during the >>>>>>> years he was posting on UKR,
ISTR his postings on a photography group went on a little longer. >>>>>>
is now 30 years ago. Someone who had retired earlier than state pension age
then say 60 years would now be ninety if they are alive.. There would have
been a few computer savvy older people in maybe their 70?s who would now >>>>> be in three figures who if they are still around would likely have age >>>>> related health issues.
Yes, we know some members have died, and several other old-timers almost >>>> certainly have, too. Some others gradually stop posting here, for whatever >>>> reason, but remain active elsewhere.
But what intrigues me is members who post fairly often, and then suddenly >>>> disappear (eg, tim), with no indication that they were, say, going in for >>>> an operation (which did happen with at least two others that I can recall).
We also know about the late Michael Bell, and Colin R from Cambridge.In another forum where I?m active, one fairly frequent poster gradually >>>> faded away. There was some indirect contact with him via his family, and >>>> the initial news was that he was having problems with his computer, which >>>> would soon be sorted. Later, we learned that he had had falls. Now we know >>>> he has dementia, and his family have had to move him to a residential home.
That may well be the fate of some former members here.
I know of at least two very regular Usenet posters who suddenly fell
silent, and a week or two later when their front door was bashed down
at the behest of concerned individuals, turned out to have died,
almost literally at their keyboards.
Another posted a suicide note, but rapid help called by concerned
friends meant he survived, and I think is still going strong today.
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I
went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >> went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >> to go.
Here's a few more once-frequent posters who have not, I think, been active here lately:
Andrew Clarke
Basil Jet
BirchangerKen
Brian
Chris Date (CMPD)
damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk
Garden6089@live.co.uk
Guy Gorton [who kept us up to date on the Tesco tunnel)
hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
Ian Batten
jack@pyromancer.net
Jonathan Amery
Joyce Whitchurch
MB
Neil Williams
Primitive Person
puffernutter
R. Mark Clayton
rail@greywall.demon.co.uk
rcp27g@gmail.com
Someone Somewhere
tim...
TimB
Tuffnell Park
[Apologies if I've included any names who are still around]
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk
Garden6089@live.co.uk
Guy Gorton [who kept us up to date on the Tesco tunnel)
hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
Ian Batten
jack@pyromancer.net
Active on Twitter
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Here's a few more once-frequent posters who have not, I think, been active here lately:
Chris Date (CMPD)
Active on Twitter
jack@pyromancer.net
Active on Twitter
Neil Williams
Active on Twitter
rcp27g@gmail.com
Still here!
On Sun, 26 Apr 2026 01:06:01 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 08:52:14 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMTAdrian seems to be in Tucson, Arizona as recently as last year.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them?
Yes, he seemed to split his time between the US and UK. I think he was a Brit who'd moved Stateside, where he'd become a
right-wing GOP enthusiast. Wasn't he also a follower of a minor religious sect? [Messianic Judaism, as I recall]
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 14:05:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 11:56:29 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
Yup.
A very unfortunately acronym. Wonder if they came up with it with a knowing >>smile and only gave it to "special" students.
It dates back to 1912, long before slang term you use.
"The DIC was first awarded in 1912 to postgraduate students, marking its debut as a formal qualification; the inaugural
ceremony saw eight recipients for completing an advanced course in railway engineering under Professor W. E. Dalby of
the City and Guilds College."
https://grokipedia.com/page/diploma_of_imperial_college
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway >>>>>>>>>
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop
don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the >>>>>>> line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work
with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like
there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would >>>> automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how >>>> it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless >>>> it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved. >>>>
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal >>>> funiculars
Some of the photos on this page
<https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also.
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >>> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track >>> turnouts."
Ingenious! I don?t think I?d have worked that out without help.
Thanks for more detective work!
I get the impression that there was a sudden riot of enthusiasm for
funicular and rack mountain railways in the 1890s, with the design
engineers either unaware of emerging best practice elsewhere, or simply
determined to invent their own novel solutions. I almost wish I was among
them!
But, pretty soon, a few standard designs became established, and the
creativity faded. I suppose many of the more oddball designs are long-gone >> or modernised, but a few eccentric survivors are preserved.
Like any emerging technology - just look at steam locomotives, traction >engines, cars and diesel locomotives for example; many different
arrangements in the early days which later settles down to a handful of >'normal' versions.
The difference is that rack/funiculars, being largely self-contained and >usually quite long-lived between refurbishments, don't necessarily get >updated/upgraded to the 'latest' spec.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:05:18 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 14:05:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe wrote:"Dick" is attributed to no later than 1891 with recordings attributed
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 11:56:29 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
It?s not difficult to find a plausible match on Wikipedia.
Sam
Another one from South Ken Tech?
Yup.
A very unfortunately acronym. Wonder if they came up with it with a knowing >>>smile and only gave it to "special" students.
It dates back to 1912, long before slang term you use.
"The DIC was first awarded in 1912 to postgraduate students, marking its debut as a formal qualification; the inaugural
ceremony saw eight recipients for completing an advanced course in railway engineering under Professor W. E. Dalby of
the City and Guilds College."
https://grokipedia.com/page/diploma_of_imperial_college
to Farmer's and another dictionary of slang.
On Mon, 27 Apr 2026 02:28:33 +0100, Charles Ellson ><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote: >>>https://grokipedia.com/page/diploma_of_imperial_college
"Dick" is attributed to no later than 1891 with recordings attributed
to Farmer's and another dictionary of slang.
But it didn't get into popular use until the 1950s.
Had that meaning been normal in the early 20th century, I'm sure IC would have >used a different term, eg, Imperial
College Diploma.
Just to amuse myself, I was wondering what technology would be used to
meet the exact same business requirement as this
oddball funicular, if being built for the first time today. I suspect it would most probably be gondolas or maybe a
cable car?
On Mon, 27 Apr 2026 16:13:00 +0100"Popular use" =/= origin. Many things are in popular use now which had
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Mon, 27 Apr 2026 02:28:33 +0100, Charles Ellson >><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote: >>>>https://grokipedia.com/page/diploma_of_imperial_college
"Dick" is attributed to no later than 1891 with recordings attributed
to Farmer's and another dictionary of slang.
But it didn't get into popular use until the 1950s.
Had that meaning been normal in the early 20th century, I'm sure IC would have
used a different term, eg, Imperial
College Diploma.
LOL! :)
You and Roland are very similar sometimes.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:05:18 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
"The DIC was first awarded in 1912 to postgraduate students, marking its debut as a formal qualification; the inaugural"Dick" is attributed to no later than 1891 with recordings attributed
ceremony saw eight recipients for completing an advanced course in railway engineering under Professor W. E. Dalby of
the City and Guilds College."
https://grokipedia.com/page/diploma_of_imperial_college
to Farmer's and another dictionary of slang.
Just to amuse myself, I was wondering what technology would be used to
meet the exact same business requirement as this
oddball funicular, if being built for the first time today. I suspect it would most probably be gondolas or maybe a
cable car?
On Sun, 26 Apr 2026 15:03:32 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2026 01:06:01 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Yes, as I also recall.
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 08:52:14 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:24:23 GMTAdrian seems to be in Tucson, Arizona as recently as last year.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian Aure Hudson, or something like that?
The name I was thinking of was Polson.
Ah, yes, I was getting them confused.
I remember both an Adrian and a Polson. Wonder what happened to them? >>>>
Yes, he seemed to split his time between the US and UK. I think he was a
Brit who'd moved Stateside, where he'd become a
right-wing GOP enthusiast. Wasn't he also a follower of a minor
religious sect? [Messianic Judaism, as I recall]
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 19:24:04 +0100, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 25/04/2026 15:05, Recliner wrote:If he did then it doesn't look like he has popped his clogs yet. The
I think Polson was retired in somewhere like Yorkshire, and may haveYes, the last reference to him that I can find was in West Yorkshire
passed away perhaps ten years go.
From what I recall he was moving to the West Highlands of Scotland.
only near entry in the indexes is :-
POLSON, ANTHONY JOHN, 56, [mms] RIDLAND, 2011 Lerwick
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 15:35:03 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> gabbled:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
One of the saddest was my good friend Steve Gold (one of the two BT
Gold hackers, responsible for the introduction of the Computer Misuse
Act, and later a freelance journalist) who went into hospital in
Sheffield for a routine operation, never woke up and died a few days
later [January 2015], not immediately as most online archives claim. I
went to his funeral (by train, naturally).
silentmodems.com
There was also Andrew Robert Breen of this parish, <azb@aber.ac.uk> I
think, so Z-for-Robert, who failed to recover from heart surgery. I almost >> went to his funeral, but came down with a heavy cold and though it best not >> to go.
Not sure your cold would have made his condition any worse to be honest!
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to amuse myself, I was wondering what technology would be used to
meet the exact same business requirement as this
oddball funicular, if being built for the first time today. I suspect it
would most probably be gondolas or maybe a
cable car?
I was musing if you could replace ropes on an inclined railway with the >linear motor that was once put forward as a device to power high speed >guided transport.
Perhaps you could replicate the balancing effect of a true funicular by
using one of the types that can regenerate so the descending car can feed
the ascending one.
Braking would likely need a rail clamp type or an eddy current system as >used by some rail brakes on trams.
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 19:24:04 +0100, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
On 25/04/2026 15:05, Recliner wrote:If he did then it doesn't look like he has popped his clogs yet. The
I think Polson was retired in somewhere like Yorkshire, and may have >>>>> passed away perhaps ten years go.Yes, the last reference to him that I can find was in West Yorkshire
From what I recall he was moving to the West Highlands of Scotland.
only near entry in the indexes is :-
POLSON, ANTHONY JOHN, 56, [mms] RIDLAND, 2011 Lerwick
Well, that?s definitely not the West Highlands, and some would argue it?s
not Scotland either.
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:05:18 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
"The DIC was first awarded in 1912 to postgraduate students, marking its debut as a formal qualification; the inaugural"Dick" is attributed to no later than 1891 with recordings attributed
ceremony saw eight recipients for completing an advanced course in railway engineering under Professor W. E. Dalby of
the City and Guilds College."
https://grokipedia.com/page/diploma_of_imperial_college
to Farmer's and another dictionary of slang.
Then there is the "King Dick" (1) effect, which I believe was
seen on a GEC unit abroad. A spanner left on the floor, above an
air cored power inductor, aligned itself with the magnetic field,
at a angle of about 45 degrees to the horizontal.
(1) A brand of spanner m'lud.
On 27 Apr 2026 16:11:53 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:Indeed but take up hasn?t been that high.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to amuse myself, I was wondering what technology would be used to
meet the exact same business requirement as this
oddball funicular, if being built for the first time today. I suspect it >>> would most probably be gondolas or maybe a
cable car?
I was musing if you could replace ropes on an inclined railway with the
linear motor that was once put forward as a device to power high speed
guided transport.
It still is ? the various maglev trains use them.
Perhaps you could replicate the balancing effect of a true funicular by
using one of the types that can regenerate so the descending car can feed
the ascending one.
It's probably not safe enough, and way too expensive.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the >>>>>>>> period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>>> also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop >>>>> don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of >>>>> the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the >>>>> line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but >>>> hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked >>>> with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two
cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >>> with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like >> there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would
automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how
it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless
it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved.
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal
funiculars
Some of the photos on this page <https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also.
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track turnouts."
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway >>>>>>>>
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It >>>>>>> also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop >>>>>> don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the >>>>>> line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but >>>>> hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work >>>> with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like >>> there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would >>> automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how >>> it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless >>> it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved. >>>
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal >>> funiculars
Some of the photos on this page
<https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also.
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track >> turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo
of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway >>>>>>>>>
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop
don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the >>>>>>> line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive,
inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t >>>>>> set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work
with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like
there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would >>>> automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how >>>> it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless >>>> it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved. >>>>
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal >>>> funiculars
Some of the photos on this page
<https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also.
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >>> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track >>> turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the
other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo
of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That?s the normal arrangement, as used in almost all single-track
funiculars with passing loops, including the modern Luxembourg example I >posted. But the Chattanooga Incline Railway has a very unusual, perhaps >unique, arrangement.
Incidentally, the Chattanooga Incline Railway originally had a
steam-powered winch, so I wonder if it was ever called the Chattanooga Choo >Choo Funicular? [Yes, I know the song was much later.]
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track >> turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo
of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:38:37 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >>> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the >>> other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo >>> of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That?s the normal arrangement, as used in almost all single-track
funiculars with passing loops, including the modern Luxembourg example I
posted. But the Chattanooga Incline Railway has a very unusual, perhaps
unique, arrangement.
Incidentally, the Chattanooga Incline Railway originally had a
steam-powered winch, so I wonder if it was ever called the Chattanooga Choo >> Choo Funicular? [Yes, I know the song was much later.]
A little research finds that the first funicular with this type of
passing loop was the Giessbachbahn, opened in 1879.
That's slightly earlier than I'd guessed.
https://giessbach.ch/en/giessbach-bahn-1
I also hadn't realised that the ingenious idea was from Roman Abt, better known for inventing the most popular design
for rack railways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Roman_Abt
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:38:37 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >>>> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the >>>> other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo >>>> of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That?s the normal arrangement, as used in almost all single-track
funiculars with passing loops, including the modern Luxembourg example I >>> posted. But the Chattanooga Incline Railway has a very unusual, perhaps
unique, arrangement.
Incidentally, the Chattanooga Incline Railway originally had a
steam-powered winch, so I wonder if it was ever called the Chattanooga Choo >>> Choo Funicular? [Yes, I know the song was much later.]
A little research finds that the first funicular with this type of
passing loop was the Giessbachbahn, opened in 1879.
That's slightly earlier than I'd guessed.
https://giessbach.ch/en/giessbach-bahn-1
That's also one of the handful of examples which uses a rack rail for speed regulation.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:38:37 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread
yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the >>>>> other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo >>>>> of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That?s the normal arrangement, as used in almost all single-track
funiculars with passing loops, including the modern Luxembourg example I >>>> posted. But the Chattanooga Incline Railway has a very unusual, perhaps >>>> unique, arrangement.
Incidentally, the Chattanooga Incline Railway originally had a
steam-powered winch, so I wonder if it was ever called the Chattanooga Choo
Choo Funicular? [Yes, I know the song was much later.]
A little research finds that the first funicular with this type of
passing loop was the Giessbachbahn, opened in 1879.
That's slightly earlier than I'd guessed.
https://giessbach.ch/en/giessbach-bahn-1
That's also one of the handful of examples which uses a rack rail for speed >> regulation.
I suppose he couldn?t resist including both of his inventions in one
railway!
The major restriction of using the Abt pointwork on a non-funicular line,
of course, is that you are restricted to using only two vehicles/trains on the line.
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:38:37 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg >>>>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway >>>>>>>>>>
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop
don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the
line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive, >>>>>>> inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t
set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work
with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like
there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would >>>>> automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how >>>>> it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless >>>>> it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved. >>>>>
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal >>>>> funiculars
Some of the photos on this page
<https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also. >>>>
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >>>> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track
turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >>> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the >>> other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo >>> of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That?s the normal arrangement, as used in almost all single-track
funiculars with passing loops, including the modern Luxembourg example I
posted. But the Chattanooga Incline Railway has a very unusual, perhaps
unique, arrangement.
Incidentally, the Chattanooga Incline Railway originally had a
steam-powered winch, so I wonder if it was ever called the Chattanooga Choo >> Choo Funicular? [Yes, I know the song was much later.]
A little research finds that the first funicular with this type of passing loop was the Giessbachbahn, opened in 1879.
That's slightly earlier than I'd guessed.
https://giessbach.ch/en/giessbach-bahn-1
I also hadn't realised that the ingenious idea was from Roman Abt, better known for inventing the most popular design
for rack railways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Roman_Abt
Am 29.04.2026 um 19:18 schrieb Recliner:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:38:37 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway >>>>>>>>>>>
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>>>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop
don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the
line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive, >>>>>>>> inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t
set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>>>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work
with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like
there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would >>>>>> automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how
it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless
it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved.
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal
funiculars
Some of the photos on this page
<https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also. >>>>>
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the
outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track
turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >>>> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the >>>> other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo >>>> of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That?s the normal arrangement, as used in almost all single-track
funiculars with passing loops, including the modern Luxembourg example I >>> posted. But the Chattanooga Incline Railway has a very unusual, perhaps
unique, arrangement.
Incidentally, the Chattanooga Incline Railway originally had a
steam-powered winch, so I wonder if it was ever called the Chattanooga Choo >>> Choo Funicular? [Yes, I know the song was much later.]
A little research finds that the first funicular with this type of passing loop was the Giessbachbahn, opened in 1879.
That's slightly earlier than I'd guessed.
https://giessbach.ch/en/giessbach-bahn-1
I also hadn't realised that the ingenious idea was from Roman Abt, better known for inventing the most popular design
for rack railways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Roman_Abt
The German Wikipedia article to the Abt Switch explains in detail both
how this first Abt Switch from 1879 works and how the more common
"updated Abt Switch" from 1885 works (the Giessbach railway was
converted to the updated version in 1890). ><https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abt%E2%80%99sche_Weiche>
On 30/04/2026 02:46, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
The major restriction of using the Abt pointwork on a non-funicular line,
of course, is that you are restricted to using only two vehicles/trains on >> the line.
IIUC you could have 2 loops (as in Glasgow) with single track between stops, and multiple vehicles/trains. Doesn't seem practicable though.
Am 29.04.2026 um 19:18 schrieb Recliner:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:38:37 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 11:38:22 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Independant systems, anyone?
I suspect rail clamps, as used in equivalent British funiculars of the
period, are much cheaper, and probably work more reliably, particularly on
very steep inclines. Some, at least, also used a double cable (one linked
to the other cabin, one to the cable winch).
Some even use a double cable with points Mr I've Got Engineering Degrees:
https://ridetheincline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Incline-30.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Inclinerailway.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain_Incline_Railway >>>>>>>>>>>
Feel free to comment.
Looks like both cables run side-by-side, so they?re effectively one. It
also helps that, unusually, it?s standard rather than narrow gauge. >>>>>>>>>>
Looking at some other pictures of that line, it seems that above the >>>>>>>>> passing loop it?s effectively double track (one shared rail), so no points
at the top end of the loop; and the points at the bottom end of the loop
don't have cut-outs for the cable, so the cable just lies over the top of
the rail - that doesn't sound like a great solution for cable wear or rail
wear, but presumably the line's engineers are happy with that. Also the
line doesn't have the lower cable below the cars.
Ah, a ni e bit of detective work! I?d seen side-by-side rail images, but
hadn?t worked out that this saved one set of points, and hadn?t noticed the
lack of cut-outs on the other points. Of course, that wouldn?t have worked
with the upper points, if fitted. So it?s another very expensive, >>>>>>>> inefficient alternative to having track clamps. No wonder that it didn?t
set a fashion!
Also the line is dead straight (except at the passing loop) so the two >>>>>>> cables closely spaced can run on the same flat roller, which wouldn't work
with curved track.
I?ve found an image of the lower end of the passing loop, and it looks like
there?s a moving element in the points. I think the descending car would >>>>>> automatically push it into the correct position, but can?t figure out how
it stays locked in the position until that car has passed back up (unless
it?s just friction). I can?t see any other way that the blades get moved.
https://ridetheincline.com/press-and-photos/
It?s quite different to the no-moving-parts with cutouts points in normal
funiculars
Some of the photos on this page
<https://railfanning.org/2013/09/photo-gallery-chattanoogas-lookout-mountain-incline-railway/>
show an unusual arrangement at the upper end of the passing loop, also. >>>>>
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the
outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track
turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >>>> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the >>>> other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo >>>> of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That?s the normal arrangement, as used in almost all single-track
funiculars with passing loops, including the modern Luxembourg example I >>> posted. But the Chattanooga Incline Railway has a very unusual, perhaps
unique, arrangement.
Incidentally, the Chattanooga Incline Railway originally had a
steam-powered winch, so I wonder if it was ever called the Chattanooga Choo >>> Choo Funicular? [Yes, I know the song was much later.]
A little research finds that the first funicular with this type of
passing loop was the Giessbachbahn, opened in 1879.
That's slightly earlier than I'd guessed.
https://giessbach.ch/en/giessbach-bahn-1
I also hadn't realised that the ingenious idea was from Roman Abt,
better known for inventing the most popular design
for rack railways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Roman_Abt
The German Wikipedia article to the Abt Switch explains in detail both
how this first Abt Switch from 1879 works and how the more common
"updated Abt Switch" from 1885 works (the Giessbach railway was
converted to the updated version in 1890). <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abt%E2%80%99sche_Weiche>
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >>> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track >>> turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the
other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo
of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That's the (pretty much) international standard, invented by Mr Roman Abt more commonly known for his arrangement of rack railways.
His arrangement of funicular pointwork is used by the majority of two-carriage-single-line-with-passing-loop funiculars, with the exception
of a handful of oddballs and exceptions. And by one oddball rack railway!
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/04/2026 02:46, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
The major restriction of using the Abt pointwork on a non-funicular line, >>> of course, is that you are restricted to using only two vehicles/trains on >>> the line.
IIUC you could have 2 loops (as in Glasgow) with single track between
stops, and multiple vehicles/trains. Doesn't seem practicable though.
Ooh yes, I hadn't considered that!
There is one stretch of tram line in Amsterdam with repeated single track-loop-single track sections which uses interlaced track to save on unnecessary point blades, which is the closest equivalent I can think of.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/04/2026 02:46, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
The major restriction of using the Abt pointwork on a non-funicular line, >>>> of course, is that you are restricted to using only two vehicles/trains on >>>> the line.
IIUC you could have 2 loops (as in Glasgow) with single track between
stops, and multiple vehicles/trains. Doesn't seem practicable though.
Ooh yes, I hadn't considered that!
There is one stretch of tram line in Amsterdam with repeated single
track-loop-single track sections which uses interlaced track to save on
unnecessary point blades, which is the closest equivalent I can think of.
On the Leidsestraat, IIRC. Seeing there were no points it baffled me the first time I saw it!
Sam
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:Rugby Road in Portsmouth still has a section in place though the rails haven?t seen a tram for nearly a hundred years. <https://maps.app.goo.gl/mDPoWcqJ4ZhxotfC6>
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:On the Leidsestraat, IIRC. Seeing there were no points it baffled me the
On 30/04/2026 02:46, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
The major restriction of using the Abt pointwork on a non-funicular line, >>>>> of course, is that you are restricted to using only two vehicles/trains on
the line.
IIUC you could have 2 loops (as in Glasgow) with single track between >>>> stops, and multiple vehicles/trains. Doesn't seem practicable though.
Ooh yes, I hadn't considered that!
There is one stretch of tram line in Amsterdam with repeated single
track-loop-single track sections which uses interlaced track to save on
unnecessary point blades, which is the closest equivalent I can think of. >>
first time I saw it!
Sam
Doesn?t the Crich tram museum have a section under their arch bridge?
ICBW but didn?t one time they plan to run trams over the top of it as well
, I suppose as those who knew original era tramways are now getting thin on the ground there must be less interest in them to support grand plans or volunteer labour to maintain them.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
I was struggling to understand it, until I came across this page:
<https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/156-lookout-mountain-incline-railway>
"One of the cars has flanges on the inside of its wheels, the other on the >>>> outside, allowing the cars to pass midway with no moving parts in the track
turnouts."
I hope I?m not coming too late to this - I?ve not read all down the thread >>> yet. The Heidelberg Funicular has one wheel with double flanges and the >>> other wide enough to ride over the gaps at the turnouts. Here is a photo >>> of an axle.
<https://live.staticflickr.com/3412/3611164658_3deaa0e035_b.jpg>
That's the (pretty much) international standard, invented by Mr Roman Abt
more commonly known for his arrangement of rack railways.
His arrangement of funicular pointwork is used by the majority of
two-carriage-single-line-with-passing-loop funiculars, with the exception
of a handful of oddballs and exceptions. And by one oddball rack railway!
Thank you. I?m not a funicular buff and the only other one I?m at all familiar with, namely the Great Orme Tramway, seems to have moving,
possibly sprung, points.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/04/2026 02:46, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
The major restriction of using the Abt pointwork on a non-funicular line, >>>> of course, is that you are restricted to using only two vehicles/trains on >>>> the line.
IIUC you could have 2 loops (as in Glasgow) with single track between
stops, and multiple vehicles/trains. Doesn't seem practicable though.
Ooh yes, I hadn't considered that!
There is one stretch of tram line in Amsterdam with repeated single
track-loop-single track sections which uses interlaced track to save on
unnecessary point blades, which is the closest equivalent I can think of.
On the Leidsestraat, IIRC. Seeing there were no points it baffled me the first time I saw it!
| Sysop: | Jacob Catayoc |
|---|---|
| Location: | Pasay City, Metro Manila, Philippines |
| Users: | 5 |
| Nodes: | 4 (0 / 4) |
| Uptime: | 493848:24:22 |
| Calls: | 146 |
| Files: | 547 |
| D/L today: |
6 files (97K bytes) |
| Messages: | 76,846 |
