• Monitoring ignition on a 1990 Honda Si.

    From peter@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 09, 2026 15:35:47
    Hi again,
    An Owon 2202S scope is mounted on the dash and connected to spark
    plug wires 3 & 4 of my Honda now.

    The picture here is from that setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system#Electronic_systems
    Click for a bigger view.

    My speculative hypotheses:
    * deeper pulses are ignitions. Shallower are cross-talk,
    * cylinder 4 sparks 1/4 cycle after cylinder 3.

    What are your interpretations?

    To improve the picture, separate the two traces more. A larger
    vertical scale may fit. The glare on the nameplate of the Hantek-25
    can be removed.

    Thx, ... P.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From bp@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 10, 2026 03:51:53
    peter@easthope.ca wrote:
    Hi again,
    An Owon 2202S scope is mounted on the dash and connected to spark
    plug wires 3 & 4 of my Honda now.

    The picture here is from that setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system#Electronic_systems
    Click for a bigger view.

    My speculative hypotheses:
    * deeper pulses are ignitions. Shallower are cross-talk,
    * cylinder 4 sparks 1/4 cycle after cylinder 3.

    What are your interpretations?

    Very limited until more is known about the setup.
    Number one, what are you trying to learn?

    Meanwhile, here are some sanity checks:

    Is the shape of the waveform reasonable?
    Is the amplitude reasonable based on the
    probe attenuation?

    Do the signals go away when disconnected from the 'scope?
    Do the signals go away when the probes are shorted to ground?
    Do the signals look the same when measured on a single plug?

    Does measured amplitude decrease smoothly as the clamps are
    opened on the wires?

    If all the answers are yes, then your interpretation is
    reasonable. It might even be correct 8-)

    If you have the option of using a pulse transformer to
    measure the spark current that might be easier to
    deal with. Less noise, better calibration stability.
    Voltage and current measured simultaneously are the
    most persuasive measurement.

    hth,

    bob prohaska


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From peter@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, March 11, 2026 06:48:18
    Bob & all,

    In article <10oo4gp$3ujhk$1@dont-email.me>, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    ... what are you trying to learn?

    My knowledge of ignition systems is minimal. My intention is to have
    some diagnostic information available when the the vehicle is on the
    road and the motor malfunctions.

    Is the shape of the waveform reasonable?

    Was hoping someone with automotive knowledge would divulge.

    Is the amplitude reasonable based on the
    probe attenuation?

    Was hoping someone would divulge.

    The engine was running when I caught the picture. No obvious
    malfunction.

    Do the signals go away when disconnected from the 'scope?
    Do the signals go away when the probes are shorted to ground?
    Do the signals look the same when measured on a single plug?

    Does measured amplitude decrease smoothly as the clamps are
    opened on the wires?

    Can check in the coming weekend. Thanks.

    If you have the option of using a pulse transformer to
    measure the spark current that might be easier to
    deal with. Less noise, better calibration stability.
    Voltage and current measured simultaneously are the
    most persuasive measurement.

    First I've heard of a pulse transformer. Will read about
    it when there's an opportunity.

    Thanks for the questions and tips, ... P.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From bp@3:633/10 to All on Friday, March 13, 2026 15:27:07
    peter@easthope.ca wrote:
    Bob & all,

    In article <10oo4gp$3ujhk$1@dont-email.me>, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    ... what are you trying to learn?

    My knowledge of ignition systems is minimal. My intention is to have
    some diagnostic information available when the the vehicle is on the
    road and the motor malfunctions.


    I'd suggest digging around on the Net to find explanations of how ignition systems work. Good keywords might be CDI, Kettering, breaker points, breakerless, transistorized ignition in your choice of permutation.
    The page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delco_ignition_system
    is a not-bad start. Most likely your bike has some variant of CDI.


    Is the shape of the waveform reasonable?

    Was hoping someone with automotive knowledge would divulge.

    As a guess, I'd suggest it'll be a fast rise to 10-40 kV, maybe
    a few microseconds at peak and a rapid collapse to a few hundred
    volts or less. It may ring, perhaps 500 kHz, and be over in a
    millisecond or less. The pulse is likely to be negative, but
    not guaranteed.

    Is the amplitude reasonable based on the
    probe attenuation?

    Was hoping someone would divulge.

    The engine was running when I caught the picture. No obvious
    malfunction.

    Agreed, the waveforms look reasonable to a casual glance.

    Do the signals go away when disconnected from the 'scope?
    Do the signals go away when the probes are shorted to ground?
    Do the signals look the same when measured on a single plug?

    Does measured amplitude decrease smoothly as the clamps are
    opened on the wires?

    Can check in the coming weekend. Thanks.

    If you have the option of using a pulse transformer to
    measure the spark current that might be easier to
    deal with. Less noise, better calibration stability.
    Voltage and current measured simultaneously are the
    most persuasive measurement.

    First I've heard of a pulse transformer. Will read about
    it when there's an opportunity.

    https://www.pearsonelectronics.com/ has application notes that
    might help make clear the utility of pulse transformers to measure
    high voltage pulses. It looks like your setup uses capacitive
    dividers. They work, but are hard to callibrate and prone to pick
    up noise. A little movement changes the attenuation and might
    change what you're measuring.

    If you're new to oscilloscope use I'd suggest making a practice
    rig using an old coil, capacitor, switch and sparkplug. That'll
    be much easier to learn with. Lots of things can go wrong with
    pulse measurements, much simpler on the bench than on the engine.

    hth,

    bob prohaska


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)