• wild book

    From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 05, 2026 20:14:35

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 06, 2026 18:59:00
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking
    his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it
    that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 06, 2026 11:09:05
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking
    his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it
    that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    A very surprising case - with my experience of universitites I would
    have expected the prof to be exonerated and the whisleblowers to be
    persecuted.

    I was once involved in a case of a fraudlent PhD thesis where I was
    asked to set up a duplicate of the experimental apparatus described by
    the student. It had a very obvious flaw in the design and gave the
    erroneous results I had predicted, which weren't those described in the
    thesis. The student withdrew his thesis when asked to repeat the
    experiment under independent observation.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 06, 2026 21:12:55
    On 6/06/2026 8:09 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm. >>
    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking
    his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it
    that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    A very surprising case - with my experience of universities I would
    have expected the prof to be exonerated and the whisleblowers to be persecuted.

    Then you've been exposed to a rather poor universities.

    I was once involved in a case of a fraudlent PhD thesis where I was
    asked to set up a duplicate of the experimental apparatus described by
    the student. It had a very obvious flaw in the design and gave the
    erroneous results I had predicted, which weren't those described in the thesis. The student withdrew his thesis when asked to repeat the
    experiment under independent observation.

    It takes a couple of years work to get a Pd.D. and nobody sane is going
    to risk having all that work wiped off by cheating. There's no explicit
    mental health check built into the selection process, but the mob I went through with were a pretty sociable bunch, and while I was labelled
    "gadget happy" we didn't have serious doubts about one another.

    My wife supervised a lot of graduate students - some 44 - and a few did
    drop out, but while a few were odd - Kim Silverman does come to mind,
    but he went on to be a principal speech scientist at Apple - none were
    odd enough to risk cheating.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 06, 2026 13:56:22
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 8:09 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking
    his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it
    that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    A very surprising case - with my experience of universities I would
    have expected the prof to be exonerated and the whisleblowers to be persecuted.

    Then you've been exposed to a rather poor universities.

    Very probably. I was sacked by one for refusing to distill petrol in
    front of the only escape door in a cellar full of post-grads.


    I was once involved in a case of a fraudlent PhD thesis where I was
    asked to set up a duplicate of the experimental apparatus described by
    the student. It had a very obvious flaw in the design and gave the erroneous results I had predicted, which weren't those described in the thesis. The student withdrew his thesis when asked to repeat the experiment under independent observation.

    It takes a couple of years work to get a Pd.D. and nobody sane is going
    to risk having all that work wiped off by cheating.

    This one was trying it on. If he had built the apparatus (which only
    took me a couple of days) and run a preliminary experiment, he would
    have immediately realised he was getting dud results. It wouldn't have
    taken anyone with a basic knowledge of physics more than a few minutes
    to see what was wrong.

    Even if he hadn't known enough physics to spot the error, he could
    easily have asked for advice from someone with a bit more experience.
    Instead he blundered on and fudged his results. That isn't a mental
    health problem, it is an attitude problem and rules out getting a PhD.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 06, 2026 05:57:20
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking
    his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it
    that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    The MTL paper cheating is really a minor feature of this book.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, June 07, 2026 01:21:03
    On 6/06/2026 10:56 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 8:09 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking >>>> his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it >>>> that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    A very surprising case - with my experience of universities I would
    have expected the prof to be exonerated and the whisleblowers to be
    persecuted.

    Then you've been exposed to a rather poor universities.

    Very probably. I was sacked by one for refusing to distill petrol in
    front of the only escape door in a cellar full of post-grads.


    I was once involved in a case of a fraudlent PhD thesis where I was
    asked to set up a duplicate of the experimental apparatus described by
    the student. It had a very obvious flaw in the design and gave the
    erroneous results I had predicted, which weren't those described in the
    thesis. The student withdrew his thesis when asked to repeat the
    experiment under independent observation.

    It takes a couple of years work to get a Pd.D. and nobody sane is going
    to risk having all that work wiped off by cheating.

    This one was trying it on. If he had built the apparatus (which only
    took me a couple of days) and run a preliminary experiment, he would
    have immediately realised he was getting dud results. It wouldn't have
    taken anyone with a basic knowledge of physics more than a few minutes
    to see what was wrong.

    Even if he hadn't known enough physics to spot the error, he could
    easily have asked for advice from someone with a bit more experience.
    Instead he blundered on and fudged his results. That isn't a mental
    health problem, it is an attitude problem and rules out getting a PhD.

    Being that stupid probably counts as a mental health problem. but it
    might just be regular psychopathic behavior. One of a girl-friend's girl friends had a boyfriend who had tried to impress by presenting a short
    science story had a copied out of Penguin anthology as his own work. She
    was impressed - as she should have been. The original author was
    Theodore Sturgeon. She showed it to me because she knew I was a science fiction fan, and I told her where it came from.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, June 07, 2026 01:23:59
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm. >>
    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking
    his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it
    that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    The MTL paper cheating is really a minor feature of this book.

    Amazon does puff it a bit. "Scandal in high places" sells well, even if
    it is a bit concocted.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 06, 2026 08:59:24
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm. >>>
    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking
    his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it
    that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    The MTL paper cheating is really a minor feature of this book.

    Amazon does puff it a bit. "Scandal in high places" sells well, even if
    it is a bit concocted.

    You have my permission to not read the book.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, June 07, 2026 02:23:01
    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking >>>> his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to
    the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it >>>> that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know.

    The MTL paper cheating is really a minor feature of this book.

    Amazon does puff it a bit. "Scandal in high places" sells well, even if
    it is a bit concocted.

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well
    developed reading skills.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, June 06, 2026 19:15:28
    On 2026-06-06 17:21, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:56 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 8:09 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some
    enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking >>>>> his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to >>>>> the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it >>>>> that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know. >>>>
    A very surprising case - with my experience of universities I would
    have expected the prof to be exonerated and the whisleblowers to be
    persecuted.

    Then you've been exposed to a rather poor universities.

    Very probably.˙ I was sacked by one for refusing to distill petrol in
    front of the only escape door in a cellar full of post-grads.


    I was once involved in a case of a fraudlent PhD thesis where I was
    asked to set up a duplicate of the experimental apparatus described by >>>> the student.˙ It had a very obvious flaw in the design and gave the
    erroneous results I had predicted, which weren't those described in the >>>> thesis.˙ The student withdrew his thesis when asked to repeat the
    experiment under independent observation.

    It takes a couple of years work to get a Pd.D. and nobody sane is going
    to risk having all that work wiped off by cheating.

    This one was trying it on.˙ If he had built the apparatus (which only
    took me a couple of days) and run a preliminary experiment, he would
    have immediately realised he was getting dud results.˙ It wouldn't have
    taken anyone with a basic knowledge of physics more than a few minutes
    to see what was wrong.

    Even if he hadn't known enough physics to spot the error, he could
    easily have asked for advice from someone with a bit more experience.
    Instead he blundered on and fudged his results.˙ That isn't a mental
    health problem, it is an attitude problem and rules out getting a PhD.

    Being that stupid probably counts as a mental health problem. but it
    might just be regular psychopathic behavior. One of a girl-friend's girl friends had a boyfriend who had tried to impress by presenting a short science story had a copied out of Penguin anthology as his own work. She
    was impressed - as she should have been. The original author was
    Theodore Sturgeon. She showed it to me because she knew I was a science fiction fan, and I told her where it came from.

    A coworker of mine said you catch a liar faster than a cripple. He was a cripple himself.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, June 07, 2026 12:43:15
    On 7/06/2026 6:21 am, Niocl s P˘l Caile n de Ghloucester wrote:
    Liz Tuddenham <liz@PoppyRecords.invalid.invalid> wrote: |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |"Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote: |


    |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |"> It takes a couple of years work to get a Pd.D. and nobody sane is going |
    to risk having all that work wiped off by cheating." |
    |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

    A Ph.D. takes more than "a couple of years work". Many holders of
    purported Ph.D.s cheat.

    The process getting enrolled as a graduate student, doing the work and
    writing it up, is supposed to take about three years.

    I took five years - my supervisor had a clear idea of how I should do
    the work, but the high-speed pen on paper recorder he had expected me to
    use turned out to be committed elsewhere, so I ended up using a very
    early PDP-8 to record the data. Building the electronics to give the
    PDP-8 the kind of signal it could digitise took a while. Writing the 800
    words of assembler to get the PDP-8 to store, filter and regurgiate that
    data didn't take all that long.

    Getting to grips with non-linear multi-parameter least squares curve
    fitting and writing a Fortran program to do it on the university's IBM
    7040/44 took a while, and I took about six months to repeated run
    tweaked versions the program until I was happy with the results I was
    getting, mainly getting better tests of convergence to fit.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, June 08, 2026 12:32:15
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593832833

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tessier-Lavigne

    does suggest that that the man had created an environment where the
    people who working working with him were motivated to cut corners.

    Theo Baker does seem to have exploited this situation with some enthusiasm.

    If you want a really bad academic try

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diederik_Stapel

    When I was living in the Netherlands I knew some of the people who
    looked into that case when his students finally shopped him for faking >>>>> his results. It wasn't immediately obvious that he was faking his
    results, but his co-workers eventually got suspicious enough to go to >>>>> the trouble of proving that he was cheating, and cross enough about it >>>>> that they took on the task of reporting it people who needed to know. >>>>
    The MTL paper cheating is really a minor feature of this book.

    Amazon does puff it a bit. "Scandal in high places" sells well, even if
    it is a bit concocted.

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows >climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well
    developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 12:27:02
    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows
    climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well
    developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort
    of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for
    a bit, as it did (for about 1300 years) during the "Younger Dryas".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

    That happened at the end of the most recent ice age, and melt-water from
    the Laurentian ice sheet seems to have been the driving force. The
    Greenland ice sheet isn't as big but it is melting quite fast.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, June 09, 2026 09:52:46
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows
    climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well
    developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it >actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort
    of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for
    a bit,

    Ah, science. You got me there.



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 12:37:19
    On 10/06/2026 2:52 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows >>>> climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well
    developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it
    actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort
    of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for
    a bit,

    Ah, science. You got me there.

    And proceeded to snip all the science, without marking the snip

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping
    for a bit, as it did (for about 1300 years) during the "Younger
    Dryas".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

    That happened at the end of the most recent ice age, and melt-water
    from the Laurentian ice sheet seems to have been the driving force.
    The Greenland ice sheet isn't as big but it is melting quite fast.

    Were you born as a slimey creep, or is it a skill you've acquired over
    the years?

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 05:56:51
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:37:19 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 2:52 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows >>>>> climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well
    developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it
    actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort
    of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for >>> a bit,

    Ah, science. You got me there.

    And proceeded to snip all the science, without marking the snip

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping
    for a bit, as it did (for about 1300 years) during the "Younger
    Dryas".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

    That happened at the end of the most recent ice age, and melt-water
    from the Laurentian ice sheet seems to have been the driving force.
    The Greenland ice sheet isn't as big but it is melting quite fast.

    Were you born as a slimey creep, or is it a skill you've acquired over
    the years?

    Was that film great cinema? I missed it somehow.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 00:55:41
    On 10/06/2026 10:56 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:37:19 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 2:52 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows >>>>>> climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well
    developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it >>>> actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort >>>> of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for >>>> a bit,

    Ah, science. You got me there.

    And proceeded to snip all the science, without marking the snip

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping
    for a bit, as it did (for about 1300 years) during the "Younger
    Dryas".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

    That happened at the end of the most recent ice age, and melt-water
    from the Laurentian ice sheet seems to have been the driving force.
    The Greenland ice sheet isn't as big but it is melting quite fast.

    Were you born as a slimey creep, or is it a skill you've acquired over
    the years?

    Was that film great cinema? I missed it somehow.

    I doubt it. I certainly didn't try to see it.

    There s a actually a cold spot in the North Atlantic produced by
    Greenland melt water - it got mentioned in the Sydney weather forecast
    tonight in the context of the general El Nino story - and it is an
    aspect of the current slowing down of the Gulf Stream which has been
    going on for a couple of decades now. Whether it will get bad enough to
    stop it doesn't seem to easily predictable, but it does seem to be a
    real risk.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 09:45:38
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 00:55:41 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    There s a actually a cold spot in the North Atlantic produced by
    Greenland melt water - it got mentioned in the Sydney weather forecast >tonight in the context of the general El Nino story - and it is an
    aspect of the current slowing down of the Gulf Stream which has been
    going on for a couple of decades now. Whether it will get bad enough to
    stop it doesn't seem to easily predictable, but it does seem to be a
    real risk.

    The alarmist media name is the "North Atlantic Warming Hole" or "Cold
    Blob"[1]. For example:

    "Multidecadal Atlantic "Warming Hole" Heat Content Variations Are
    Caused by Ocean Heat Transport, Not by Surface Fluxes." <https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2025GL118383>

    "From a risk management perspective (Rahmstorf & Zickfeld, 2005), this
    risk requires urgent attention by policy makers."

    [1] I assume that the authors are able to distinguish between a "warm
    hole" and a "cold blob".




    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, June 10, 2026 17:41:24
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 00:55:41 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 10:56 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:37:19 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 2:52 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows >>>>>>> climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well >>>>>>> developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it >>>>> actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort >>>>> of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for >>>>> a bit,

    Ah, science. You got me there.

    And proceeded to snip all the science, without marking the snip

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping
    for a bit, as it did (for about 1300 years) during the "Younger
    Dryas".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

    That happened at the end of the most recent ice age, and melt-water
    from the Laurentian ice sheet seems to have been the driving force.
    The Greenland ice sheet isn't as big but it is melting quite fast.

    Were you born as a slimey creep, or is it a skill you've acquired over
    the years?

    Was that film great cinema? I missed it somehow.

    I doubt it. I certainly didn't try to see it.

    There s a actually a cold spot in the North Atlantic produced by
    Greenland melt water - it got mentioned in the Sydney weather forecast >tonight in the context of the general El Nino story - and it is an
    aspect of the current slowing down of the Gulf Stream which has been
    going on for a couple of decades now. Whether it will get bad enough to
    stop it doesn't seem to easily predictable, but it does seem to be a
    real risk.

    There is a world map in today's SF Chronicle that shows ocean surface
    temp rise over the last 100 years. Everywhere is colored hottter
    except that one patch near Greenland.

    I suspect that the instrumentation wasn't very good 100 years ago.
    Certainly not adequate to resove fractions of a degree C.

    The amount of Greenland melt water must be PPMs of the volume of the
    ocean, even ignoring circulation.

    The map shows high water temp warming just off our local Pacific
    coast. I wish! Swimmers die here of hypothermia.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 14:52:36
    On 11/06/2026 10:41 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 00:55:41 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 10:56 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:37:19 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 2:52 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows
    climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well >>>>>>>> developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it >>>>>> actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort >>>>>> of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for >>>>>> a bit,

    Ah, science. You got me there.

    And proceeded to snip all the science, without marking the snip

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping >>>>> for a bit, as it did (for about 1300 years) during the "Younger
    Dryas".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

    That happened at the end of the most recent ice age, and melt-water
    from the Laurentian ice sheet seems to have been the driving force.
    The Greenland ice sheet isn't as big but it is melting quite fast.

    Were you born as a slimey creep, or is it a skill you've acquired over >>>> the years?

    Was that film great cinema? I missed it somehow.

    I doubt it. I certainly didn't try to see it.

    There s a actually a cold spot in the North Atlantic produced by
    Greenland melt water - it got mentioned in the Sydney weather forecast
    tonight in the context of the general El Nino story - and it is an
    aspect of the current slowing down of the Gulf Stream which has been
    going on for a couple of decades now. Whether it will get bad enough to
    stop it doesn't seem to easily predictable, but it does seem to be a
    real risk.

    There is a world map in today's SF Chronicle that shows ocean surface
    temp rise over the last 100 years. Everywhere is colored hottter
    except that one patch near Greenland.

    I suspect that the instrumentation wasn't very good 100 years ago.
    Certainly not adequate to resove fractions of a degree C.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_blob

    The cold blob is typically of the of order of 1 degree Centigrade cooler
    than the surrounding ocean. Even mercury in glass thermometers can
    measure that.

    The amount of Greenland melt water must be PPMs of the volume of the
    ocean, even ignoring circulation.

    The cooling represents a weakening of the thermohaline circulation which drives the Gulf Stream (which brings warm water up from near the
    equator). It's not any kind of direct reflection of coolness of the melt
    water coming off the Greenland ice sheet. Even an ignorant twit like you
    ought to have been able to work that out, but your desire to trivialise
    the discussion presumably blinded you to that.

    The map shows high water temp warming just off our local Pacific
    coast. I wish! Swimmers die here of hypothermia.

    Dolphins and orcas evolved to cope with ocean water temperatures.
    Human's mostly lack the blubber layer which insulates marine mammals.
    The fat-headed climate change denier may be working on that.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, June 11, 2026 10:31:08
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:52:36 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 10:41 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 00:55:41 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 10:56 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:37:19 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>> wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 2:52 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    You have my permission to not read the book.

    Your recommendation wasn't exactly an inducement. Somebody who swallows
    climate change denial propaganda without gagging hasn't got well >>>>>>>>> developed reading skills.

    It's noon and 62F here. This morning it was about 56.

    I wouldn't mind a little global warming.

    You'd be a lot more nervous if you had a more realistic idea of what it >>>>>>> actually involved. Climate change denial propaganda does skip that sort >>>>>>> of detail.

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping for
    a bit,

    Ah, science. You got me there.

    And proceeded to snip all the science, without marking the snip

    The film "The day after tomorrow" was about the gulf stream stopping >>>>>> for a bit, as it did (for about 1300 years) during the "Younger
    Dryas".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

    That happened at the end of the most recent ice age, and melt-water >>>>>> from the Laurentian ice sheet seems to have been the driving force. >>>>>> The Greenland ice sheet isn't as big but it is melting quite fast.

    Were you born as a slimey creep, or is it a skill you've acquired over >>>>> the years?

    Was that film great cinema? I missed it somehow.

    I doubt it. I certainly didn't try to see it.

    There s a actually a cold spot in the North Atlantic produced by
    Greenland melt water - it got mentioned in the Sydney weather forecast
    tonight in the context of the general El Nino story - and it is an
    aspect of the current slowing down of the Gulf Stream which has been
    going on for a couple of decades now. Whether it will get bad enough to
    stop it doesn't seem to easily predictable, but it does seem to be a
    real risk.

    There is a world map in today's SF Chronicle that shows ocean surface
    temp rise over the last 100 years. Everywhere is colored hottter
    except that one patch near Greenland.

    I suspect that the instrumentation wasn't very good 100 years ago.
    Certainly not adequate to resove fractions of a degree C.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_blob

    The cold blob is typically of the of order of 1 degree Centigrade cooler >than the surrounding ocean. Even mercury in glass thermometers can
    measure that.


    But how many good measurements do we have from centuries ago? Maybe
    the cold blob is normal. Just everyday climate chaos.


    The amount of Greenland melt water must be PPMs of the volume of the
    ocean, even ignoring circulation.

    The cooling represents a weakening of the thermohaline circulation which >drives the Gulf Stream (which brings warm water up from near the
    equator). It's not any kind of direct reflection of coolness of the melt >water coming off the Greenland ice sheet. Even an ignorant twit like you >ought to have been able to work that out, but your desire to trivialise
    the discussion presumably blinded you to that.

    The map shows high water temp warming just off our local Pacific
    coast. I wish! Swimmers die here of hypothermia.

    Dolphins and orcas evolved to cope with ocean water temperatures.
    Human's mostly lack the blubber layer which insulates marine mammals.
    The fat-headed climate change denier may be working on that.

    I was considering the optimum time frame for the doomsday industry.

    If you predict disaster in two years, you won't have time to publish
    books and make many TED talks. And when it doesn't happen, it's bad
    for the economics.

    I you predict wipeout in 200 years, most people won't care.

    The concensus seems to converge on predicting doom in 10 to 15 years.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Friday, June 12, 2026 17:28:12
    On 12/06/2026 3:31 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:52:36 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 11/06/2026 10:41 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 00:55:41 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 10:56 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 12:37:19 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 10/06/2026 2:52 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 12:27:02 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 9/06/2026 5:32 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 02:23:01 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 7/06/2026 1:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 01:23:59 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 6/06/2026 10:57 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 18:59:00 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:=
    On 6/06/2026 1:14 pm, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    There s a actually a cold spot in the North Atlantic produced by
    Greenland melt water - it got mentioned in the Sydney weather forecast >>>> tonight in the context of the general El Nino story - and it is an
    aspect of the current slowing down of the Gulf Stream which has been
    going on for a couple of decades now. Whether it will get bad enough to >>>> stop it doesn't seem to easily predictable, but it does seem to be a
    real risk.

    There is a world map in today's SF Chronicle that shows ocean surface
    temp rise over the last 100 years. Everywhere is colored hottter
    except that one patch near Greenland.

    I suspect that the instrumentation wasn't very good 100 years ago.
    Certainly not adequate to resove fractions of a degree C.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_blob

    The cold blob is typically of the of order of 1 degree Centigrade cooler
    than the surrounding ocean. Even mercury in glass thermometers can
    measure that.

    But how many good measurements do we have from centuries ago? Maybe
    the cold blob is normal. Just everyday climate chaos.

    It doesn't seem to be, no matter how much you might like to think that.

    The amount of Greenland melt water must be PPMs of the volume of the
    ocean, even ignoring circulation.

    The cooling represents a weakening of the thermohaline circulation which
    drives the Gulf Stream (which brings warm water up from near the
    equator). It's not any kind of direct reflection of coolness of the melt
    water coming off the Greenland ice sheet. Even an ignorant twit like you
    ought to have been able to work that out, but your desire to trivialise
    the discussion presumably blinded you to that.

    The map shows high water temp warming just off our local Pacific
    coast. I wish! Swimmers die here of hypothermia.

    Dolphins and orcas evolved to cope with ocean water temperatures.
    Human's mostly lack the blubber layer which insulates marine mammals.
    The fat-headed climate change denier may be working on that.

    I was considering the optimum time frame for the doomsday industry.

    If you predict disaster in two years, you won't have time to publish
    books and make many TED talks. And when it doesn't happen, it's bad
    for the economics.

    I you predict wipeout in 200 years, most people won't care.

    The concensus seems to converge on predicting doom in 10 to 15 years.

    The word is consensus, and you are talking about a particular branch of
    the book publishing industry.

    Anthropogenic global warming is a scientific fact, and scientists get
    promoted because the tales they tell educate and inform their already well-informed audience (of which you aren't a member).

    You seem to a member of the gullible twit audience for a whole range of nonsense, which does include climate change denial propaganda. Do keep reminding us of your prominent position in that group. There are quite a
    lot of them. Donald J. Trump is an even more prominent member, and you
    do emphasise the features you share with him. He does have more money,
    but he does promote even more fautuous nonsense (though Trump University
    did get shut down as an excessively obvious fraud).

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)