• Need new ISP and maybe domain

    From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 10, 2026 17:05:12
    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 10, 2026 15:09:59
    On 4/10/2026 2:05 PM, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:
    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    You can get the same sort of behavior with IMAP. Much depends on
    your MUA and any "local processing" that you apply. (of course,
    "local" is the set of all MUAs accessing an account).

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    Relying on email as a storage medium seems like a bad move. Relying on ANYTHING in the cloud (or a server that you don't control), equally so.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    I heavily favor the free providers. You can usually set up for POP3/IMAP
    (even if they claim you need a "paid account"). They usually support some number of "alias" addresses tied to "your" account (handier than resorting
    to tempmail any time you want a tentative contact with someone or something). They handle all of the spam detection. They have staff to keep their service "available". And, as to your following statement, they provide a disconnect between identity and email address (which has value).

    Some provide end-to-end encryption and "european privacy rules".

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    Google provides MX services to many ISPs, without exposing themselves
    as such in the domain choice. Important if you are concerned as
    to who/what is parsing your messages. FWIW.

    You can also operate your own server -- on-site or colo'ed. Usually
    not a realistic option for most folks but gives you freedom from constraints imposed by mail service providers (volume of mail, size of attachments, automatic server-side processing of mail, EULA constraints, etc.)

    Note that if your domain gets blacklisted, it can have a personal
    reflection on *you*!

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Ask yourself what you *want* and (separately) *need* from an email
    service. Unless you're trying to present a corporate face (and
    it's not hard ot discover how much of a facade that may be!), it
    seems most folks just want to be able to "get messages" and not
    want to have to dick with anything other than a monthly payment.

    I've had dozens of "primary" email addresses over the past 50 years.
    The folks who want/need to get in touch with me have never had a problem adapting to an ISP closing up shop or me opting to discard an account.
    So, a "personalized domain" would be nothing other than vanity.

    I tend NOT to search past email messages except for the few "your
    activation code is..." messages -- easier than finding the permanent
    record of same. But, I tend to use email as most folks use the
    telephone. So, the volume of "saved messages" would be prohibitive.
    It's a bit of a chore to walk through and delete a few hundred
    messages ("Sent", "Inbox") each week just to keep things tidy.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 10, 2026 18:40:03
    On 4/10/2026 5:39 PM, Niocl s P˘l Caile n de Ghloucester wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |"I heavily favor the free providers. [. . .] |
    | |
    |I've had dozens of "primary" email addresses over the past 50 years."| |---------------------------------------------------------------------|

    Are there really so many free providers?

    I like GMX.com and Mail.com. There are others but most of
    my accounts are on these. I keep a few "precious" email
    addresses but usually give out aliases tied to those. In this
    way, if I want to "revoke" an address, I don't have to advise
    a lot of people of the change -- just "drop" the alias from the
    account and anyone using it loses the ability to contact me
    (the "precious" addresses anchor the accounts so you don't want
    to give those out as "dropping" them effectively deletes the entire
    account -- and all aliases tied to them).

    I've historically had small (local) ISPs in the various places that
    I've lived. These are often bought-out, absorbed, etc. Email
    is often a casualty of such "consolidations" so I learned not
    to let an ISP host any email, web, etc. accounts (it also
    makes moving-by-choice a lot easier)

    Ages ago, I hosted my own mail server. But, this was more an
    exercise than an "efficient choice". It had advantages when
    you weren't permanently connected to the internet (e.g., UUCP mail)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From David LaRue@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 03:31:07
    joegwinn@comcast.net wrote in news:capitk1mtti4d3itsgabkc3r79r4p1saji@
    4ax.com:

    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Joe

    Here is my experience.

    I was grandfathered perhaps a dozen times as my orizinal email provider/ISP sold off everything. I'm currently on a Road Runner account, rr.com.
    Support has been good through the years. I also worry that they will
    decide to close up some day. I'm a full SMTP/POP3 user. Nothing stays on
    the ISP. I have all email for past accounts and it still fits on my local drive. I don't keep spam, but most real communications are here. I backup
    of course but not very often, You never know when a new home computer is needed. This arrangement allows me to view and send email even when the
    power is out or the ISP has an issue. My wife uses a gmail account and her phone so often yells, alerts me!?, whenever she has an issue. I just check
    my system and can tell her what the real issue is and perhaps when she
    might get service back. That frustrates the always on people so much. We
    get plenty of unscheduled outages here due to bad diggers, traffic
    accidents that take out hubs, and of course the rare extended power outage.

    I have no idea if RR can work for you. I used to self host several
    services from home but don't now.

    Best of luck to you!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jan Panteltje@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 05:52:28
    joegwinn@comcast.netwrote:
    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud >provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Joe

    My website and pop email is hosted by
    https://www.antagonist.nl/

    They do speak english
    I changed to them a few years back when 'godaddy' hosting stopped with pop email.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 09:55:50
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 18:40:03 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 4/10/2026 5:39 PM, Niocl?s P?l Caile?n de Ghloucester wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |"I heavily favor the free providers. [. . .] |
    | |
    |I've had dozens of "primary" email addresses over the past 50 years."|
    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|

    Are there really so many free providers?

    I like GMX.com and Mail.com. There are others but most of
    my accounts are on these. I keep a few "precious" email
    addresses but usually give out aliases tied to those. In this
    way, if I want to "revoke" an address, I don't have to advise
    a lot of people of the change -- just "drop" the alias from the
    account and anyone using it loses the ability to contact me
    (the "precious" addresses anchor the accounts so you don't want
    to give those out as "dropping" them effectively deletes the entire
    account -- and all aliases tied to them).

    I've historically had small (local) ISPs in the various places that
    I've lived. These are often bought-out, absorbed, etc. Email
    is often a casualty of such "consolidations" so I learned not
    to let an ISP host any email, web, etc. accounts (it also
    makes moving-by-choice a lot easier)

    Ages ago, I hosted my own mail server. But, this was more an
    exercise than an "efficient choice". It had advantages when
    you weren't permanently connected to the internet (e.g., UUCP mail)

    I'll look into these. Thanks,

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 09:59:05
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 03:31:07 -0000 (UTC), David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

    joegwinn@comcast.net wrote in news:capitk1mtti4d3itsgabkc3r79r4p1saji@ >4ax.com:

    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud
    provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Joe

    Here is my experience.

    I was grandfathered perhaps a dozen times as my orizinal email provider/ISP >sold off everything. I'm currently on a Road Runner account, rr.com. >Support has been good through the years. I also worry that they will
    decide to close up some day. I'm a full SMTP/POP3 user. Nothing stays on >the ISP. I have all email for past accounts and it still fits on my local >drive. I don't keep spam, but most real communications are here. I backup >of course but not very often, You never know when a new home computer is >needed. This arrangement allows me to view and send email even when the >power is out or the ISP has an issue. My wife uses a gmail account and her >phone so often yells, alerts me!?, whenever she has an issue. I just check >my system and can tell her what the real issue is and perhaps when she
    might get service back. That frustrates the always on people so much. We >get plenty of unscheduled outages here due to bad diggers, traffic
    accidents that take out hubs, and of course the rare extended power outage.

    I have no idea if RR can work for you. I used to self host several
    services from home but don't now.

    A blast from the past. I was on RR for some time, decades ago when it
    was dial-up. They eventually became strange, so I dropped them. So
    they're back it seems. I'll look into this.


    Best of luck to you!

    Thanks,

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 10:03:07
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 05:52:28 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    joegwinn@comcast.netwrote:
    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud >>provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the >>cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Joe

    My website and pop email is hosted by
    <https://www.antagonist.nl/>

    They do speak english.

    Necessary. My Dutch is quite limited.


    I changed to them a few years back when 'godaddy' hosting stopped with pop email.

    I don't think GoDaddy is any kind of ISP any more.

    I'll look into Antagonist.

    Thanks,

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 08:40:14
    On 4/11/2026 6:55 AM, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:
    I'll look into these. Thanks,
    Mail.com and GMX.com have such similar web sites that I wouldn't
    doubt they are the same company (or closely related).

    Both support POP3 and IMAP access -- along with "web mail".

    [The web interface supports some other "light" applications
    but I can't comment on those.]

    The "pro tip" is to pick an email address and then create
    aliases that map to that address, "publishing" these while
    keeping the original "account" address closely held.
    The aliases (10?) can be freely destroyed and new ones
    created -- though each new one must be unique within the
    chosen domain (I think they offer ~100 different domains)

    Obviously, a "deleted" address can never be used again...

    I have *zero* spam. I dispose of an address when I want to
    block those I've given it to from contacting me (e.g.,
    using it much like a temporary/disposable email -- like
    for a business that decides it would like to "keep in touch"
    with you just because you were foolish enough to provide an
    email address for them to use in contacting you).

    I don't think they allow you to create your own domain.
    But, there are others that will service a domain of your
    own creation (Zohomail?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 11:45:27
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 17:05:12 -0400, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:

    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    Most, if not all, web hosting providers also provide email service. If
    you're already paying for web hosting and/or a domain name, you
    probably already have "free" email service.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    I have about 10 computers which share the same email address. I could
    see managing 2 or 3 shared accounts, but not 10. I'm currently using
    IMAP4 and encrypting anything important with GPG4win:
    <https://www.gpg4win.org>

    If email security is an issue, I suggest you look into encrypted
    email. I helped setup encrypted email using Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail>
    and Veracrypt for CAD files:
    <https://veracrypt.io/en/Home.html>
    This was for a collaborative product design project I was working on.
    It mostly worked but herding cats would have been easier than
    convincing some of the participants to cooperate.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud >provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    For email, I've been using ionos.com (formerly 1&1.com) for about 30
    years for a few domain registrations and a few webmail accounts. <https://www.ionos.com/office-solutions/email-hosting#tariffs>
    No clue about support or customer service because I've never needed to
    contact them. Since I'm paying for 9 email counts and 4 domains, it's difficult to provide a cost. I pay $12/month for most months with one
    annual spike to $32 for the for the domains.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Suggestion: You're asking in an electronic design newsgroup. You
    might do better asking in a group, mailing list or forum that deals
    with internet related questions.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 12:09:24
    On 4/11/2026 11:45 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    I have about 10 computers which share the same email address. I could
    see managing 2 or 3 shared accounts, but not 10. I'm currently using

    Set up a machine as your email relay. Then, connect to *it*
    for each of your computers. Don't "save" anything on any of
    your client machines. In that way, everything resides in one place.
    (You can get a little 10W, headless box for that purpose as it
    doesn't take much to handle mail).

    I do this for usenet as it also allows that "agent" to sort through
    posts BEFORE I (as a client) see them to sort out the cruft.

    IMAP4 and encrypting anything important with GPG4win: <https://www.gpg4win.org>

    If email security is an issue, I suggest you look into encrypted
    email. I helped setup encrypted email using Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail>
    and Veracrypt for CAD files:
    <https://veracrypt.io/en/Home.html>

    These are usually more difficult to use as getting end-to-end
    encryption requires using a special client. Tutanota also
    offers a similar service (as do others).

    This was for a collaborative product design project I was working on.
    It mostly worked but herding cats would have been easier than
    convincing some of the participants to cooperate.

    +42

    A paranoid client wanted me to send/receive encrypted mail out of
    (misplaced) fear someone would snoop on his "secrets". I walked
    away from the job as communication shouldn't be that tedious as
    to *discourage* it!

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud
    provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    For email, I've been using ionos.com (formerly 1&1.com) for about 30
    years for a few domain registrations and a few webmail accounts. <https://www.ionos.com/office-solutions/email-hosting#tariffs>
    No clue about support or customer service because I've never needed to contact them. Since I'm paying for 9 email counts and 4 domains, it's difficult to provide a cost. I pay $12/month for most months with one
    annual spike to $32 for the for the domains.

    Note that the name registration is a separate issue from hosting.
    You can register a domain name and have someone else host whatever
    services you want. There, the issue is how well they will protect
    the domain from the expected threats and trash.

    You also don't need to register a domain to have a machine
    accessible from The Internet. Though many ISP EULAs prohibit
    activities associated with "running a server". This is
    usually imposed to limit traffic (which is all they typically
    provide).

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Suggestion: You're asking in an electronic design newsgroup. You
    might do better asking in a group, mailing list or forum that deals
    with internet related questions.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 13:11:43
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 12:09:24 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 4/11/2026 11:45 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    I have about 10 computers which share the same email address. I could
    see managing 2 or 3 shared accounts, but not 10. I'm currently using

    Set up a machine as your email relay. Then, connect to *it*
    for each of your computers. Don't "save" anything on any of
    your client machines. In that way, everything resides in one place.
    (You can get a little 10W, headless box for that purpose as it
    doesn't take much to handle mail).

    Good idea but it has a problem. At some point, I need to archive all
    my incoming and outgoing email in one place. That's easy enough from
    a desktop, which is always connected to the archive server via
    Ethernet or wi-fi, but not so easy with portable devices such as
    phones, tablets and laptops. I attempted to do this in the past with
    bad results. One misconfigured MUA (mail user agent) and the archive
    is partly or totally lost. Adding an email relay solves part of the
    problem, but also increases complexity. Adding encryption (gpg4win)
    creates complications, such as having to approve forwarding encrypted
    email or re-encrypting it. Such as system can be made to function,
    but I question whether it will be reliable and usable by mere mortals
    and paying customers.

    I do this for usenet as it also allows that "agent" to sort through
    posts BEFORE I (as a client) see them to sort out the cruft.

    I thought we were discussing email, not Usenet. Those are two
    different nightmares.

    IMAP4 and encrypting anything important with GPG4win:
    <https://www.gpg4win.org>

    If email security is an issue, I suggest you look into encrypted
    email. I helped setup encrypted email using Proton Mail
    <https://proton.me/mail>
    and Veracrypt for CAD files:
    <https://veracrypt.io/en/Home.html>

    These are usually more difficult to use as getting end-to-end
    encryption requires using a special client. Tutanota also
    offers a similar service (as do others).

    Thanks. They're now called Tuta.
    <https://tuta.com>
    <https://tuta.com/encryption>
    I'm not familiar with the service and certainly look at what they have
    to offer. Please note that my former problems with herding cats had
    little to do with the encryption software and more to do with users
    not wanting to do anything "extra" to improve security. I also had
    problems dealing with a multitude email client software and a
    preference by some users for webmail.

    This was for a collaborative product design project I was working on.
    It mostly worked but herding cats would have been easier than
    convincing some of the participants to cooperate.

    +42

    Hebrew mysticism had it first: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#Wisdom_literature,_religion,_and_philosophy>

    A paranoid client wanted me to send/receive encrypted mail out of
    (misplaced) fear someone would snoop on his "secrets". I walked
    away from the job as communication shouldn't be that tedious as
    to *discourage* it!

    That was the reason for all the encryption I mentioned. We were
    working on a product where public disclosure on a web site or Internet
    forum could have invalidated key patents. Nobody wanted to risk a
    leak.

    Incidentally, the worst potential leak having someone dig through the
    waste or recycling bin for printed or copied documents. We looked at
    printer security and decided that it was impossible with the available
    tools. We bought shredders for those who needed one, but effective
    use was minimal.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud
    provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    For email, I've been using ionos.com (formerly 1&1.com) for about 30
    years for a few domain registrations and a few webmail accounts.
    <https://www.ionos.com/office-solutions/email-hosting#tariffs>
    No clue about support or customer service because I've never needed to
    contact them. Since I'm paying for 9 email counts and 4 domains, it's
    difficult to provide a cost. I pay $12/month for most months with one
    annual spike to $32 for the for the domains.

    Note that the name registration is a separate issue from hosting.
    You can register a domain name and have someone else host whatever
    services you want. There, the issue is how well they will protect
    the domain from the expected threats and trash.

    You also don't need to register a domain to have a machine
    accessible from The Internet. Though many ISP EULAs prohibit
    activities associated with "running a server". This is
    usually imposed to limit traffic (which is all they typically
    provide).

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Suggestion: You're asking in an electronic design newsgroup. You
    might do better asking in a group, mailing list or forum that deals
    with internet related questions.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 14:19:21
    Set up a machine as your email relay. Then, connect to *it*
    for each of your computers. Don't "save" anything on any of
    your client machines. In that way, everything resides in one place.
    (You can get a little 10W, headless box for that purpose as it
    doesn't take much to handle mail).

    Good idea but it has a problem. At some point, I need to archive all
    my incoming and outgoing email in one place. That's easy enough from
    a desktop, which is always connected to the archive server via
    Ethernet or wi-fi, but not so easy with portable devices such as
    phones, tablets and laptops.

    Let the email relay do that as a periodic task -- as *it* already
    has copies of everything. The problem with multiple mail clients
    is that each wants to think it is the SOLE client. If, instead,
    the email relay acts as the "agent", then any client can access any
    message (inbox or sent).

    I attempted to do this in the past with
    bad results. One misconfigured MUA (mail user agent) and the archive
    is partly or totally lost. Adding an email relay solves part of the
    problem, but also increases complexity. Adding encryption (gpg4win)
    creates complications, such as having to approve forwarding encrypted
    email or re-encrypting it.

    Of course! The more functionality included, the greater the complexity.
    But, you can "hide" that complexity from average users with a suitable
    "agent".

    Such as system can be made to function,
    but I question whether it will be reliable and usable by mere mortals
    and paying customers.

    I do this for usenet as it also allows that "agent" to sort through
    posts BEFORE I (as a client) see them to sort out the cruft.

    I thought we were discussing email, not Usenet. Those are two
    different nightmares.

    Same set of issues regarding accessing messages and your replies to them.
    My "USENET agent" hides the details of where (within my little domain)
    I am reading and posting. *It* looks like the sole client. And, to
    my "real" clients, looks like the USENET server (ES). So, I can
    kill off a thread on one client (because that is done in the client)
    and still access it from another.

    IMAP4 and encrypting anything important with GPG4win:
    <https://www.gpg4win.org>

    If email security is an issue, I suggest you look into encrypted
    email. I helped setup encrypted email using Proton Mail
    <https://proton.me/mail>
    and Veracrypt for CAD files:
    <https://veracrypt.io/en/Home.html>

    These are usually more difficult to use as getting end-to-end
    encryption requires using a special client. Tutanota also
    offers a similar service (as do others).

    Thanks. They're now called Tuta.
    <https://tuta.com>
    <https://tuta.com/encryption>
    I'm not familiar with the service and certainly look at what they have
    to offer. Please note that my former problems with herding cats had
    little to do with the encryption software and more to do with users
    not wanting to do anything "extra" to improve security. I also had
    problems dealing with a multitude email client software and a
    preference by some users for webmail.

    Getting people to "do something different" is always a problem.
    "Why can't I just...?"

    This was MY attitude towards the aforementioned project that
    "wanted" all of this security. Especially when you want to deal with
    a group that has to "conspire" on the project:
    "Bob, your email is coming through in plaintext..."

    This was for a collaborative product design project I was working on.
    It mostly worked but herding cats would have been easier than
    convincing some of the participants to cooperate.

    +42

    Hebrew mysticism had it first: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#Wisdom_literature,_religion,_and_philosophy>

    A paranoid client wanted me to send/receive encrypted mail out of
    (misplaced) fear someone would snoop on his "secrets". I walked
    away from the job as communication shouldn't be that tedious as
    to *discourage* it!

    That was the reason for all the encryption I mentioned. We were
    working on a product where public disclosure on a web site or Internet
    forum could have invalidated key patents. Nobody wanted to risk a
    leak.

    I have a little "mailing list" manager that we use to share information
    about our projects. A script fetches incoming mail to a public mailbox, authenticates the originator (in case the address is ever leaked or
    discovered) and then forwards the message to the members of the list.

    I originally designed it as an alternative to USENET-style groups
    as it gives "shared moderation" privileges to everyone on the list
    (if you disapprove of a post, you can retro-moderate it; the
    consequences being a consistent offender is eventually removed
    from the list!)

    Of course, not necessary when the folks on the list are all working
    towards a shared goal.

    We've considered a "live chat" application (with or without video)
    but that forces everyone to have a common time when getting together
    would be convenient. I long ago got rid of my business phone because
    people had the annoying habit of wanting to talk to me when I wanted
    to sleep or run errands! (How rude, eh? :> )

    Incidentally, the worst potential leak having someone dig through the
    waste or recycling bin for printed or copied documents. We looked at
    printer security and decided that it was impossible with the available
    tools. We bought shredders for those who needed one, but effective
    use was minimal.

    Eschew paper. Bigger screens! Someday, I'll buy a large tablet for the
    sole purpose of reading documents at full size.

    Nowadays, you can markup most documents without altering the originals.
    And, share those marked-up forms.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 17:55:01
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 08:40:14 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 4/11/2026 6:55 AM, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:
    I'll look into these. Thanks,
    Mail.com and GMX.com have such similar web sites that I wouldn't
    doubt they are the same company (or closely related).

    Both support POP3 and IMAP access -- along with "web mail".

    [The web interface supports some other "light" applications
    but I can't comment on those.]

    The "pro tip" is to pick an email address and then create
    aliases that map to that address, "publishing" these while
    keeping the original "account" address closely held.
    The aliases (10?) can be freely destroyed and new ones
    created -- though each new one must be unique within the
    chosen domain (I think they offer ~100 different domains)

    Obviously, a "deleted" address can never be used again...

    I have *zero* spam. I dispose of an address when I want to
    block those I've given it to from contacting me (e.g.,
    using it much like a temporary/disposable email -- like
    for a business that decides it would like to "keep in touch"
    with you just because you were foolish enough to provide an
    email address for them to use in contacting you).

    I don't think they allow you to create your own domain.
    But, there are others that will service a domain of your
    own creation (Zohomail?)

    More to look into.

    Thanks,

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 18:07:24
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 11:45:27 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 17:05:12 -0400, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:

    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    Most, if not all, web hosting providers also provide email service. If
    you're already paying for web hosting and/or a domain name, you
    probably already have "free" email service.

    That does seem common.


    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    I have about 10 computers which share the same email address. I could
    see managing 2 or 3 shared accounts, but not 10. I'm currently using
    IMAP4 and encrypting anything important with GPG4win: ><https://www.gpg4win.org>

    I'm far smaller scale.


    If email security is an issue, I suggest you look into encrypted
    email. I helped setup encrypted email using Proton Mail ><https://proton.me/mail>
    and Veracrypt for CAD files:
    <https://veracrypt.io/en/Home.html>
    This was for a collaborative product design project I was working on.
    It mostly worked but herding cats would have been easier than
    convincing some of the participants to cooperate.

    Yeah. Proton Mail may not do POP3.


    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud >>provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the >>cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    For email, I've been using ionos.com (formerly 1&1.com) for about 30
    years for a few domain registrations and a few webmail accounts. ><https://www.ionos.com/office-solutions/email-hosting#tariffs>
    No clue about support or customer service because I've never needed to >contact them. Since I'm paying for 9 email counts and 4 domains, it's >difficult to provide a cost. I pay $12/month for most months with one
    annual spike to $32 for the for the domains.

    I had not heard of ionos.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Suggestion: You're asking in an electronic design newsgroup. You
    might do better asking in a group, mailing list or forum that deals
    with internet related questions.

    Well, I know the SED bunch, but I'm not an IT expert, so while I don't
    mind the abuse I'd likely get in those dedicated newsgroups, it's not
    likely to pay off - too much chaff.

    Thanks,

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 11, 2026 18:11:08
    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 13:11:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 11 Apr 2026 12:09:24 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 4/11/2026 11:45 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions >>>> and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    I have about 10 computers which share the same email address. I could
    see managing 2 or 3 shared accounts, but not 10. I'm currently using

    Set up a machine as your email relay. Then, connect to *it*
    for each of your computers. Don't "save" anything on any of
    your client machines. In that way, everything resides in one place.
    (You can get a little 10W, headless box for that purpose as it
    doesn't take much to handle mail).

    Good idea but it has a problem. At some point, I need to archive all
    my incoming and outgoing email in one place. That's easy enough from
    a desktop, which is always connected to the archive server via
    Ethernet or wi-fi, but not so easy with portable devices such as
    phones, tablets and laptops. I attempted to do this in the past with
    bad results. One misconfigured MUA (mail user agent) and the archive
    is partly or totally lost. Adding an email relay solves part of the
    problem, but also increases complexity. Adding encryption (gpg4win)
    creates complications, such as having to approve forwarding encrypted
    email or re-encrypting it. Such as system can be made to function,
    but I question whether it will be reliable and usable by mere mortals
    and paying customers.

    I do this for usenet as it also allows that "agent" to sort through
    posts BEFORE I (as a client) see them to sort out the cruft.

    I thought we were discussing email, not Usenet. Those are two
    different nightmares.

    Interesting, but frightening.

    Joe


    IMAP4 and encrypting anything important with GPG4win:
    <https://www.gpg4win.org>

    If email security is an issue, I suggest you look into encrypted
    email. I helped setup encrypted email using Proton Mail
    <https://proton.me/mail>
    and Veracrypt for CAD files:
    <https://veracrypt.io/en/Home.html>

    These are usually more difficult to use as getting end-to-end
    encryption requires using a special client. Tutanota also
    offers a similar service (as do others).

    Thanks. They're now called Tuta.
    <https://tuta.com>
    <https://tuta.com/encryption>
    I'm not familiar with the service and certainly look at what they have
    to offer. Please note that my former problems with herding cats had
    little to do with the encryption software and more to do with users
    not wanting to do anything "extra" to improve security. I also had
    problems dealing with a multitude email client software and a
    preference by some users for webmail.

    This was for a collaborative product design project I was working on.
    It mostly worked but herding cats would have been easier than
    convincing some of the participants to cooperate.

    +42

    Hebrew mysticism had it first: ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#Wisdom_literature,_religion,_and_philosophy>

    A paranoid client wanted me to send/receive encrypted mail out of >>(misplaced) fear someone would snoop on his "secrets". I walked
    away from the job as communication shouldn't be that tedious as
    to *discourage* it!

    That was the reason for all the encryption I mentioned. We were
    working on a product where public disclosure on a web site or Internet
    forum could have invalidated key patents. Nobody wanted to risk a
    leak.

    Incidentally, the worst potential leak having someone dig through the
    waste or recycling bin for printed or copied documents. We looked at
    printer security and decided that it was impossible with the available
    tools. We bought shredders for those who needed one, but effective
    use was minimal.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud >>>> provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the >>>> cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    For email, I've been using ionos.com (formerly 1&1.com) for about 30
    years for a few domain registrations and a few webmail accounts.
    <https://www.ionos.com/office-solutions/email-hosting#tariffs>
    No clue about support or customer service because I've never needed to
    contact them. Since I'm paying for 9 email counts and 4 domains, it's
    difficult to provide a cost. I pay $12/month for most months with one
    annual spike to $32 for the for the domains.

    Note that the name registration is a separate issue from hosting.
    You can register a domain name and have someone else host whatever
    services you want. There, the issue is how well they will protect
    the domain from the expected threats and trash.

    You also don't need to register a domain to have a machine
    accessible from The Internet. Though many ISP EULAs prohibit
    activities associated with "running a server". This is
    usually imposed to limit traffic (which is all they typically
    provide).

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Suggestion: You're asking in an electronic design newsgroup. You
    might do better asking in a group, mailing list or forum that deals
    with internet related questions.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From legg@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 12, 2026 10:58:48
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 17:05:12 -0400, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:

    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud >provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the
    cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Joe

    Check out Teksavvy.

    https://www.teksavvy.com/

    RL

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 12, 2026 09:53:30
    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:58:48 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    Check out Teksavvy.
    https://www.teksavvy.com/

    RL

    TekSavvy is Canada only and does not provide service in USA. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TekSavvy>

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 12, 2026 11:01:32
    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 17:49:39 -0000 (UTC), Niocl?s P?l Caile?n de
    Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> wrote:

    Legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
    |---------------------------|
    |"Check out Teksavvy. |
    | |
    | https://www.teksavvy.com/ |
    | |
    |RL" |
    |---------------------------|

    "403 Forbidden

    Microsoft-Azure-Application-Gateway/v2"
    said that website.

    (S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

    I got the same thing. I believe that the Teksavvy.com web pile is
    trying to display an advertisement. Fortunately, it leaves cookies
    behind so that it will only display one advert at a time. Just
    restart your browser and try again. That worked for me.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 12, 2026 15:48:51
    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:58:48 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 17:05:12 -0400, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:

    I have been using COMCAST as my email provider for decades, but they
    are now exiting the ISP business altogether, transferring us to Yahoo
    mail, which may or may not be ideal. Anyway, I'm wondering if I
    should go to a different ISP, and maybe buy my own domain as well.

    The requirement that really sorts the ISP offerings out is long-term
    full no-fooling support of the POP3 protocol.

    With POP3, storage is local and is backed up as well as one provisions
    and operates it, with multiple backup cycles like in the old days.

    With IMAP, everything is synced, so a burp anywhere sometimes causes
    total loss, followed by expressions of deepest sympathy from the cloud >>provider, but no remedy. Photos being the classic example - these
    cannot be replaced.

    POP3 completely excludes Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are in the >>cloud only.

    Yahoo and NeoMail do support POP3.

    Getting my own domain is a separate issue, but I'm thinking about
    that. Looking around, there seems to be a lot of chicanery going on.
    My default is probably GoDaddy.

    So I'm looking for ideas and and suggestions. And warnings.

    Joe

    Check out Teksavvy.

    <https://www.teksavvy.com/>

    Thanks,

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From joegwinn@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 12, 2026 15:49:36
    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 09:53:30 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:58:48 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    Check out Teksavvy.
    https://www.teksavvy.com/

    RL

    TekSavvy is Canada only and does not provide service in USA. ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TekSavvy>


    Ahh.

    Joe

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 12, 2026 17:53:46
    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 15:49:36 -0400, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 09:53:30 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:58:48 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    Check out Teksavvy.
    https://www.teksavvy.com/

    RL

    TekSavvy is Canada only and does not provide service in USA. >><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TekSavvy>

    Ahh.
    Joe

    Hint: Almost all ISPs demand that prospective customers provide them
    with a valid physical address (or some nearby address if they're
    paranoid). I did that on the TekSavvy.com signup form and got
    nothing. Their address database lookup program is setup to return
    nothing for a failed lookup so that the prospective customer try. I
    then went to the TekSavvy.com website and tried to determine where
    they were located. I found some hints, but nothing definitive. At
    this point, I would normally look at their domain registration
    information (if available). Instead, laziness led me to
    Wikipedia.com, which has management, service area, service details,
    location information, and other goodies.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)