• Good engineering

    From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 04:21:38
    Well, maybe "thoughtful" (or considerate) would be a better word.

    Replaced a sink, last night. To secure the valve assembly to the body
    of the sink, you need to install a nut on a very long threaded pipe.
    The obvious solution is a deep (VERY deep) socket. Or, maybe a crow's
    foot (but few people have them or are even aware they exist!).

    Manufacturer included an extruded (?) socket of the requisite depth
    (a bit over 3 inches -- a stretch for many deep sockets!).

    But, arranged for it to be "driven" by:
    - 1/2" hex socket
    - 11/16 - 13/16 wrench (open/box), continuously variable!
    - #3 Philips
    - large slotted

    Clearly they gave SOME thought to DIY installers!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 17:26:26
    On 4/5/26 13:21, Don Y wrote:
    Well, maybe "thoughtful" (or considerate) would be a better word.

    Replaced a sink, last night.ÿ To secure the valve assembly to the body
    of the sink, you need to install a nut on a very long threaded pipe.
    The obvious solution is a deep (VERY deep) socket.ÿ Or, maybe a crow's
    foot (but few people have them or are even aware they exist!).

    Manufacturer included an extruded (?) socket of the requisite depth
    (a bit over 3 inches -- a stretch for many deep sockets!).

    But, arranged for it to be "driven" by:
    - 1/2" hex socket
    - 11/16 - 13/16 wrench (open/box), continuously variable!
    - #3 Philips
    - large slotted

    Clearly they gave SOME thought to DIY installers!

    Recently, I came across an even smarter thing: The nut had an
    elliptical hole and canted threading and mating sufaces. You
    could slide it on almost all the way and only near the end
    the canted mating surface made the threads engage. A few turns
    would be enough to tighten it.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 12:41:38
    On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 04:21:38 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    Well, maybe "thoughtful" (or considerate) would be a better word.

    Replaced a sink, last night.

    I have that sinking feeling. Midnight plumbing? Some things are best
    done under cover of darkness.

    To secure the valve assembly to the body
    of the sink, you need to install a nut on a very long threaded pipe.
    The obvious solution is a deep (VERY deep) socket. Or, maybe a crow's
    foot (but few people have them or are even aware they exist!).

    Manufacturer included an extruded (?) socket of the requisite depth
    (a bit over 3 inches -- a stretch for many deep sockets!).

    Extra long stamped sockets are common for shower valves and basin
    (sink) installations. <https://www.google.com/search?q=extra%20deep%20shower%20valve%20sockets&udm=2> <https://www.google.com/search?q=extra%20deep%20basin%20sockets&num=10&udm=2> So far, I see stamped tools supplied with the more expensive sink and
    showed kits, but not with cheap kits or fixture components.

    But, arranged for it to be "driven" by:
    - 1/2" hex socket
    - 11/16 - 13/16 wrench (open/box), continuously variable!
    - #3 Philips
    - large slotted

    Now, that's nice. I haven't seen that. I usually see 2 round holes
    at one end. Insert included rod or round screwdriver in both holes
    and I have a "T" wrench. The "T" handle system is difficult to
    tighten properly.

    Clearly they gave SOME thought to DIY installers!

    I wonder what problem they're trying to solve. My guess(tm) is that
    everyone keeps the supplied tools and stores them in an obscure
    location where they cannot be found when needed. It's easier to
    provide a "free" tool, than to deal with an irate customer demanding
    to know if the tool was lost in shipping or stolen at hardware store.

    Back to working on my taxes...


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 13:20:53
    On 4/5/2026 12:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 04:21:38 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    Well, maybe "thoughtful" (or considerate) would be a better word.

    Replaced a sink, last night.

    I have that sinking feeling. Midnight plumbing? Some things are best
    done under cover of darkness.

    I'm on an inverted schedule, currently (actually, *mostly*!).
    The only downside being I have to anticipate what I might need
    from the "store" as they don't share my schedule preferences. :<

    But, arranged for it to be "driven" by:
    - 1/2" hex socket
    - 11/16 - 13/16 wrench (open/box), continuously variable!
    - #3 Philips
    - large slotted

    Now, that's nice. I haven't seen that. I usually see 2 round holes
    at one end. Insert included rod or round screwdriver in both holes
    and I have a "T" wrench. The "T" handle system is difficult to
    tighten properly.

    <https://mega.nz/file/V643ASbL#LaWm1TcmqlSe9_Ecuy5s5HHBpXNrqzghffP4FQDCFcg>

    The taper is noticeable if you are paying attention. So, if you opt
    to use a wrench to secure, no need to worry metric/english, or
    specific size. Just move it up or down the length until it's a
    good fit!

    <https://mega.nz/file/tnQ2UJQL#QhBTfqfgBsZU_wd4BQqapxNHghm8vGbe1x-VNxMX-AU>

    Especially when the fastener is located on the underside of a sink
    adjacent to the "sink basins"; you don't have room for anything wider
    than the fixture, itself.

    And, as the "basins" are adjacent, you can't easily access the
    fastener (nut), especially as it approaches the end of its travel
    (where additional torque would be required; the valve assembly sees
    forces applied by the user).

    Not to mention when the fastener falls onto your face as you are trying
    to catch a few threads (along with assorted "crap" that has been hiding
    in those dark recesses for years...

    Clearly they gave SOME thought to DIY installers!

    I wonder what problem they're trying to solve. My guess(tm) is that
    everyone keeps the supplied tools and stores them in an obscure
    location where they cannot be found when needed. It's easier to
    provide a "free" tool, than to deal with an irate customer demanding
    to know if the tool was lost in shipping or stolen at hardware store.

    It's a regular fastener (nut on threaded tube, in this case)
    so could be secured with a wrench or a socket (depending on the
    thickness of the sink through which the fastener must pass).
    If you misplace it (or, it falls and makes a bee-line for some
    inaccessible spot), your local hardware store will have a replacement
    (though likely not in brass)

    Tool can't cost them more than a few pennies to make. (I add
    these to my regular toolbox as there is nothing restricting its use
    to just THIS faucet! Also, put the instructions/brochure -- marked
    with installation date -- in my "Plumbing" toolbox so I don't have
    to hunt for it at some future date) I sure as hell wouldn't use
    it with an impact driver, though!

    I long ago "learned" that the easiest way to install a new faucet
    on a sink/basin is to remove it and invert it. Everything is
    plainly visible, even if "hiding" in the shadow of the inverted
    sink basins. Much less stressful than lying on your back with your
    arms up-stretched trying to fiddle in the "dark"!

    When ready, restore to proper orientation and drop back into
    place. Connect hot and cold supplies (which are usually closer
    to the floor than the work you have just finished) and the
    drain. Reconnect disposal.

    [This is much easier if you DON'T plumb the dishwasher into the
    disposal as that would have the disposal captive by said hose!]

    Back to working on my taxes...

    Why the rush? You've got another week and a half. :>


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)