• Re: CERN and thw anti-matter bomb?

    From x@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 28, 2026 06:28:51
    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the
    trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 28, 2026 07:34:41
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the
    trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From x@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 28, 2026 11:43:53
    On 3/28/26 07:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently? >>>>
    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the >>>> trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Ok.

    So, what is 'AI'? A generic term for 'technology'
    when a reporter wants to report on something that
    seems technological, but doesn't want to specify
    what the 'technology' is?

    Well maybe so, but it also two letters attached to the
    'google' search engine.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 28, 2026 12:57:09
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 11:43:53 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/28/26 07:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in >>>>>>> there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through >>>>>>> steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently? >>>>>
    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the >>>>> globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled >>>>> and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the >>>>> trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Ok.

    So, what is 'AI'? A generic term for 'technology'
    when a reporter wants to report on something that
    seems technological, but doesn't want to specify
    what the 'technology' is?

    Well maybe so, but it also two letters attached to the
    'google' search engine.


    The google AI search isn't bad. One shouldn't believe it absolutely,
    but it usually has credible references and is a good start for
    branching out.

    I sometimes don't have the just-right words for a search, and the
    google AI often furnishes them.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 28, 2026 23:37:50
    On 3/28/26 14:28, x wrote:
    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of
    the trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question.ÿ Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?

    Yes indeed! Several experiments measure the effect of gravity
    on antimatter, neutral antihydrogen, and it falls down just
    like ordinary matter. At least within the precision afforded
    by the experiments. It's by no means easy to do.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From albert@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 13:43:04
    In article <8dcgsk1osm18ok7039gsffklcf0idocol5@4ax.com>,
    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 11:43:53 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/28/26 07:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close.. >>>>>>>>>
    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap? >>>>>>>>
    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in >>>>>>>> there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through >>>>>>>> steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and >>>>>> water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently? >>>>>>
    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the >>>>>> globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled >>>>>> and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons >>>>>> you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the >>>>>> trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Ok.

    So, what is 'AI'? A generic term for 'technology'
    when a reporter wants to report on something that
    seems technological, but doesn't want to specify
    what the 'technology' is?

    Well maybe so, but it also two letters attached to the
    'google' search engine.


    The google AI search isn't bad. One shouldn't believe it absolutely,
    but it usually has credible references and is a good start for
    branching out.

    All subjects where CIA hasn't a stake in are surprisingly reliable.


    I sometimes don't have the just-right words for a search, and the
    google AI often furnishes them.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --
    The Chinese government is satisfied with its military superiority over USA.
    The next 5 year plan has as primary goal to advance life expectancy
    over 80 years, like Western Europe.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)