• Re: Surplus electricity

    From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Friday, March 27, 2026 11:43:53
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Certainly not.? Metalizations are hundreds or thousands of atoms >>>>>>>>> thick.

    The sheet resistivity of a single-atom film would be absurd.

    It would be practically infinite.

    Not actually true.

    Evaporation is directional, meaning
    that every little hummock casts a shadow.? To reliably get a continuous
    coating on a polymer film, you need to (a) sputter it, so that >>>>>>>> collisions with the background gas cause the metal to come in from all >>>>>>>> directions; and (b) use a film thicker than the maximum surface texture.

    And then you have to not stretch the film afterward, or the metal will >>>>>>>> crack and be flaky ever after.? I spent an unpleasant couple of weeks in
    2000, trying to get my 96-pixel metallized PVDF (pyroelectric polymer) >>>>>>>> image sensors to work reliably.? Took an astounding amount of
    fully-manual silver painting.

    The next batch used carbon-loaded ink, which would take a hard crease >>>>>>>> without cracking.? That was some kind of relief--slap 'em together and >>>>>>>> they just worked.

    A google search on "The conductivity of a one atom thick layer of gold >>>>>>> in ohms per square"

    gives a result that points out that a 10nm gold layer offers
    2.9ohm/square, while a 1-2nm gold layer come in a at 530ohm/square. >>>>>>>
    Evaporated gold does end up as adjacent crystals on the surface. >>>>>>> True single atom gold films - "goldene" - do rather better, but they are
    hard to make.

    Would you want to design with wound film caps that have kohms (or
    megohms) of ESR?

    Don't be silly. The resistance per square is across the length of the >>>>> capactor - the way is wound and connected puts the current paths across >>>>> the capaictor in series rather than in parallel

    And with gold metalization?

    There's very little gold laid down.

    Absurd.

    The absurdity is all in your ill-informed snap judgement

    The most common film cap metalization is aluminum, sometimes zinc. A >>>>>> single atomic layer of either will oxidize after deposition. The AlO2 >>>>>> or ZnO monolayer will be a wonderful insulator.

    But the oxide layer is about one atom thick. It protects the metal layer >>>>> underneath remarkably effectively.

    > AI Overview
    A natural, passive aluminum oxide layer typically forms instantly upon >>>>>> air exposure, with a thickness of roughly 1?10 nm (4?5 nm is common). >>>>>
    One or two atoms thick.

    This amorphous, self-limiting layer protects the aluminum from further >>>>>> oxidation, though it can grow thicker over years or via accelerated >>>>>> processes like anodizing (0.5?25+ ?m).

    Key Aspects of Aluminum Oxide Layer Thickness:

    Natural Passive Layer: Immediately upon exposure to oxygen, a 2-5 >>>>>> nm layer forms. It can reach up to 10 nm over extended periods, but >>>>>> often stays around 4-5 nm in standard environments.

    So you are actually agreeing with me, but didn't understand that what >>>>> you were posting supported my point of view.

    Do you stand by your one-atom-thick-metalization claim?

    You always snip your dumber lines.

    The one atom thick metalisation is a mostly impractical idea
    but my Google search - quoted above - which you don't seem to have
    processed, says

    " A google search on "The conductivity of a one atom thick layer of gold >>> in ohms per square" gives a result that points out that a 10nm gold
    layer offers 2.9ohm/square, while a 1-2nm gold layer comes in a at
    530ohm/square."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold

    gives the diameter of a gold atom as 0.332nm. A 10nm thick layer of gold >>> ought to be 30 atoms thick, and 1nm layer three atoms thick yet the
    resistance per square goes up by a factor 183 as you shrink the
    thickness down by a factor of ten.

    The critical thickness seems to be a couple of atoms thick rather than a >>> monolayer but once you have that there's no point in making it thicker.

    You've got to have enough gold atoms there to let them organise
    themselves into little crystals of gold that are still in electrical
    contact.

    Calling that a monolayer kept the idea simple enough that even you
    should have been able to grasp it. but you clearly haven't.

    You said (and of course snipped)

    Metallised film capacitors are made by evaporating metal to create
    metal vapour which you let condense onto the surface of a plastic film
    - the metal layer is about one atom thick. Thinner and it won't
    conduct electricty. Thicker and you are wasting metal. You wind two
    layers of metalised film together to make your actual capacitor.

    The problem with creating a metalised film one atom thick at it thinnest >point by evaporation/condensation is that it ends up having to
    average four or five atoms thick. It's lumpy.

    This takes time to explain.

    What you posted was

    Certainly not. Metalizations are hundreds or thousands of
    atoms thick.

    Which is decidedly absurd.

    The sheet resistivity of a single-atom film would be absurd.

    Search on "goldene". It's remarkably difficult to create a continuous
    layer of single atom gold - you don't seem to be able to do it by >evaporation, but it has been done and it is about a couple of hundred
    ohms per square. If a layer of gold 30 atoms thick has a resistivity of
    2.9 ohm per square, a continuous single layer might be expected to
    offer 87 ohms per square, but the conduction bands in goldene are a bit odd.

    It would be practically infinite.

    Not actually true.

    So you still score a lot higher on the absurdity stakes.

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Friday, March 27, 2026 15:22:39
    But like I said fridges and freezers do. They are a big chunk in the
    electric bill of otherwise frugal hopuseholds.

    Yes, but not big enough to consume the sorts of "excess" power
    that you can have available.ÿ Think: air conditioning, etc.

    In my case not because I haven't used the big A/C in years. It's swamp cooler
    only.

    We've had the ACbrrr running for several weeks, already. It's been at
    or above 100F for much of that time.

    While I prefer the cooler in "Summer" (the hot season that is also dry),
    SWMBO isn't a fan. And, the cooler is just not capable of providing
    comfort during Monsoon (the hot season that is humid).

    [We looked at the costs of operating each some years ago and found it
    to be pretty similar: ACbrrr cools the house and then shuts off;
    cooler runs continunously (and uses lots of water).]

    As nothing prevents you from powering that load from the utility
    WHEN utility power is available, you can use the utility when
    needed and NOT rely on it for storage.ÿ So, they have no voice in your >>>> deployment decisions and can only affect the price you pay as a
    regular consumer.

    When you do that here they charge you an effective $0.45/kWh. Motivation >>> enough not to do that.

    They don't know the difference between a "solar enhanced" load
    and a traditional load.ÿ That's the point.ÿ You aren't relying
    on the utility to store your "excess", just *supplement* your needs.

    Ideally one would supplement when prices are low. It Texas you can, in California that doesn't make economic sense. The ToU rates they offer are a bad
    deal. You only get a miniscule discount during solar excess supply but when you

    Exactly. The cost for the energy that you are providing is offset by the
    added "transportation cost" of any that you *purchase*. Utilities aren't fools. They realize they are on the wrong side of this equation and are
    just fighting a delaying tactic to try to remain relevant.

    then want to cook or bake a meal in the evening you get severely punish by huge
    upcharges. Meaning your total electricity bill would now be higher. Therefore,
    many people like myself are not signing up for that.

    If you are home much of the day -- or have pets -- then you are paying to
    keep a large volume of space "comfortable" (heated/cooled). I suspect the calculus is different for people whose employers keep them warm/cool
    during "business hours".

    And, if you've already put your "toe" in, you can easily put your
    whole "foot" in if their "standard" pricing becomes too costly.

    That gets expensive, fast, mainly because of high peak loads. But some
    people out here do that and go completely off grid.

    It is common, here, in outlying areas.ÿ But, they have to be able to
    store their excess to get through periods of no power.

    If, instead, you use local solar to power certain loads and utility
    power to carry those loads when your storage is exhausted, then
    you just look like a smaller user.

    That can be done if you are mostly retired. For example, run the dryer or the
    vacuum cleaner while it is sunny outside. For working people it's just not feasible.

    These changes require behavioral changes and discipline. In addition to opportunity.

    The purpose of my original post was to try to identify ways to use
    "surplus electricity" without an explicit effort (and, across a range
    of environments/users).

    I presently "do extra work" when I know that I *will* have a surplus
    instead of defering that work given the possibility that it might NOT
    be necessary. Or, to exploit periods of lower consumption.

    E.g., I can power up every node and have them run diagnostics while
    I have surplus power available -- instead of waiting to *suspect* the need
    to run diagnostics.

    Or, retrain recognizers and models instead of doing those things less frequently (because they have diminishing returns).

    Or, recording TV/radio/cable broadcasts and eliding "commercials"
    and "commentary" -- on the off chance that the user may want to
    consume said (if not, then you can just discard your efforts!)

    But, these are relatively small loads, given that they have to be
    supported "regardless"/eventually.

    I plan on moving my servers out to an off-building and leaving them
    powered (and cooled/silenced) there, reclaiming "habitable space"
    indoors. Eventually, powering and heating an endless pool as I
    start retiring the electronics kit.

    Why no AI startups in Romney, West Virginia?

    Well, everybody knows that :-)

    Nowadays with remote work it doesn't matter so much. I have worked remotely for
    decades. I have never personally met many of my longterm clients yet we have done lots of projects together, from concept to production. I could live on a
    Caribbean island as long as Fedex lands there.

    But many people don't work remotely, despite the lack of a real NEED
    to be on-site. Yes, there are some efficiencies from being able to
    interact with a variety of individuals spontaneously and *instantly*.
    But, there's a high cost to providing this (travel, scheduling, etc.).

    If I had to interact with clients and peers "in person", my work and
    sleep schedules would be subject to THEIR requirements. Why should I
    *have to* work right now if I don't feel particularly productive?
    Or, want to engage in some other activity that is more appealing?

    Also, if they'd tax on inventory during the year that would entice companies
    to keep their stuff out of state. Or leave lock, stock and barrel. Which >>> some did.

    That just increases their cost to do business *in* the state.

    Our sales tax approaches 10% (9.mumble).ÿ On a $50K vehicle, there is a huge >> incentive to avoid that tax.ÿ Yet, you don't see dealerships moving outside >> of the region where the taxes are imposed -- because that inconveniences
    their customers.ÿ Would you want to stake your business in an unincorporated >> area and have to worry about where you were going to get police, fire,
    insurance, etc.?

    As long as your competitors are stuck in the same boat, there is no real
    incentive to play games.

    It's the consumers who play those games. There is a reason why many people in
    our area have their huge RVs registered in Florida, Montana, Oregon, et cetera.
    Sometimes their whole fleet of cars.

    Or, let your business own those assets and write off your oil change, cost
    of insurance, cost to garage, etc.

    But, not everyone has those luxuries.

    Your habits are unlikely to change for a few dollars on a grocery bill or
    other sundries. But, could easily be coerced for big purchases, regardless
    of how infrequent they may be.

    I bought a tape deck in the late 70's and had it shipped to my parents'
    home to save the local sales tax (considerable on a $2200 purchase)
    as the cost of shipping was a small fraction of that. When the equipment arrived at the local shop, I went down and picked it up and paid the
    vendor for the shipping (that never happened but *appeared* to on the
    invoice). So, he made a few extra bucks and I got the kit earlier
    (and without having to make the drive out-of-state to fetch it).

    I remember people in WA state who got together on Saturdays, rented the biggest
    U-Haul truck they could find and then drove down to OR. There they bought whatever was needed. Big ticket items such as washers, dryers, fancy dishwashers, leather sofas, video games, computers, and so on. No sales tax in OR.

    We have "outlet stores" here, in the middle of nowhere (notaxwhere).

    But, this is inconvenient for many people to exploit.

    The same applies to mail-order firms.ÿ If buying on-line allowed you to avoid
    local sales taxes, those retailers would have a price advantage.

    And they do even though Internet sales are now taxed. Some people look for small mom and pop shops out of state whose biz volume is below the threshold so
    they can sell sans tax. That's an instant 10% discount in your area.

    I used my resale license to shift those taxes as I was making large purchases for clients. Inconsequential if buying a case of 9T tapes -- but, quickly
    add up when buying $20K pieces of kit!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 28, 2026 15:37:03
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself, but if you want to pose as an expert,
    here's your chance to shine.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, March 28, 2026 15:59:48
    On 24/03/2026 2:55 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/23/2026 05:30 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 22/03/2026 5:12 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/21/2026 10:36 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Mar 2026 10:06:37 -0700, Ross Finlayson
    <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 03/21/2026 09:41 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/21/2026 07:18 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 16:42:15 -0700, Ross Finlayson
    <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 03/20/2026 03:28 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 14:13:46 -0700, Ross Finlayson
    <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 03/20/2026 10:46 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 09:36:21 -0700, Joerg
    <news@analogconsultants.com>
    wrote:

    On 3/18/26 4:05 PM, Don Y wrote:
    On 3/18/2026 3:58 PM, Lasse Langwadt wrote:
    On 3/18/26 23:09, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    A sufficiently large lever, ....

    In the real world a sufficiently long lever would break.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

    talks about a sufficiently long cable, which - if anchored to the
    earth's surface and extended above sychronous orbit height - would build
    a stair way to the stars, or at least to synchronous orbit.

    Any real material cable would break under the tension. Carbon nanotubes
    are almost strong enough.


    A usual account has that Coriolis force would destroy
    yet another of Arthur Clarke's fever-dreams.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force

    A space elevator is anchored on the equator. Coriolis forces don't come
    into it. Continental drift might eventually drive the anchor point off
    the equator but the centre of mass of the elvator structure is going to
    be close to and a little above the snychronous orbit level at an
    altitude of approximately 35,786 km (22,236 mi) above mean sea level.

    That can still be directly above the equator. The counter balancing mass
    above that height has to stay at a point that is as far enough below the equator to compensate for drift of the anchor point above the equator
    (or vice versa).

    Arthur C. Clarke didn't invent the idea and rather more technically able people have looked at it in detail over the past century. It seems to be practicable. Practical is a different question.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, March 29, 2026 12:10:16
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo
    metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to
    provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 30, 2026 14:47:41
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo
    metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to
    provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than
    that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points,
    and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
    films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all
    the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.

    You didn't shine.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney






    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, March 30, 2026 08:09:07
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo
    metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to
    provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2 >>
    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than
    that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points,
    and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 ?m


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
    films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all
    the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get >carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of >metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.

    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap
    regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.




    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 31, 2026 16:13:21
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo >>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to
    provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than
    that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points,
    and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 æm


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
    films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all
    the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get
    carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of
    metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.

    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap
    regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.


    back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.

    The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about
    "T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but doesn't suggest
    that this is what is usually meant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    I make a habit of it. You didn't post the link you seem to have been
    relying on, and and you don't seem to have learned as much from it as
    you might have done. Your claim that the metalisation can be an
    aluminium/zinc composite strikes me a dubious. The metalisation can be
    either aluminium or zinc, but putting both down on the same film does
    seem to be improbable. Metal-spraying the ends of a capacitor with
    finely divided molten zinc to connect the aluminium films to real wires
    does seem to happen.

    The self-healing properties of evaporated metallic films does imply the
    films are made as thin as they can be - which is to say just thick
    enough that the thinnest areas are just one atom thick. I should ahve
    thought of earlier - I've known about self-healing forever, but don't
    get to think about it all that often.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 31, 2026 10:59:41
    On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 16:13:21 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo >>>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to
    provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than
    that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points, >>> and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of
    aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 ?m


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
    films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all >>> the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get
    carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of
    metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.

    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap
    regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.


    back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.

    The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about >"T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but doesn't suggest
    that this is what is usually meant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    I make a habit of it. You didn't post the link you seem to have been
    relying on, and and you don't seem to have learned as much from it as
    you might have done. Your claim that the metalisation can be an >aluminium/zinc composite strikes me a dubious. The metalisation can be >either aluminium or zinc, but putting both down on the same film does
    seem to be improbable.

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, March 31, 2026 20:34:48
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo >>>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to
    provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than
    that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points, >>> and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of
    aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 ?m


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
    films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all >>> the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get
    carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of
    metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.

    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap
    regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.


    back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.

    The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about "T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but doesn't
    suggest that this is what is usually meant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    I make a habit of it.

    Except in this case where you are clearly unable to do so.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminium%2Fzinc+composite+capacitor+film&csuir=1

    If the AI summary doesn't appear click AI mode.

    You might also try this:

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Al/Zn+composite+capacitor+film

    Since it's more suited to an individual who disdains others without a PhD.


    You didn't post the link you seem to have been relying on, and and you don't seem to have learned as much from it as you might
    have done. Your claim that the metalisation can be an aluminium/zinc composite strikes me a dubious. The metalisation can be
    either aluminium or zinc, but putting both down on the same film does seem to be improbable. Metal-spraying the ends of a
    capacitor with finely divided molten zinc to connect the aluminium films to real wires does seem to happen.

    The self-healing properties of evaporated metallic films does imply the films are made as thin as they can be - which is to say
    just thick enough that the thinnest areas are just one atom thick. I should ahve thought of earlier - I've known about
    self-healing forever, but don't get to think about it all that often.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 01, 2026 15:10:13
    On 1/04/2026 4:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 16:13:21 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I make a habit of it. You didn't post the link you seem to have been
    relying on, and and you don't seem to have learned as much from it as
    you might have done. Your claim that the metalisation can be an
    aluminium/zinc composite strikes me a dubious. The metalisation can be
    either aluminium or zinc, but putting both down on the same film does
    seem to be improbable.

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    You advanced the proposition - it's up to you to find the evidence to
    support it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 01, 2026 15:36:25
    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo >>>>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to >>>>> provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than
    that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points, >>>> and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of
    aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 ?


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
    films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all >>>> the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get
    carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of >>>> metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.

    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap
    regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.


    back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.

    The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about "T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but doesn't
    suggest that this is what is usually meant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    I make a habit of it.

    Except in this case where you are clearly unable to do so.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminium%2Fzinc+composite+capacitor+film&csuir=1

    If the AI summary doesn't appear click AI mode.

    This is actually the informative link.

    https://www.capacitorconnect.com/what-are-different-types-of-metallization-used-in-capacitor-films/

    It seems that in some applications it is worth putting down an initial -
    very tin layer of aluminium to give a somewhat thicker layer of zinc, something that is easier to bond to than bare plastic film. The link
    does make the point that zinc films self-heal better than aluminium
    films - it takes less energy to blow it away from the short-circuit path
    - but they do oxidise at room temperature in way that alumniuum films
    don't.

    You might also try this:

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Al/Zn+composite+capacitor+film

    Since it's more suited to an individual who disdains others without a PhD.

    Plowing through papers published in peer-reviewed journals in one of the tedious tasks one has to master to get a Ph.D. I don't think that that
    link is any more useful than the one I've picked out of your first grab bag.

    I don't disdain people who haven't got a Ph.D. Win Hill started on a
    Ph.D. in chemical physics, but he had better supervision than I had and
    they persuaded him to get a masters degree in electronics instead.

    I am a bit disdainful of people who can't write a concise post that says
    what it needs to say. Academics should be able to manage this, but many
    can't, and it is skill that many have master without getting any
    academic training>

    You didn't post the link you seem to have been relying on, and and you don't seem to have learned as much from it as you might
    have done. Your claim that the metalisation can be an aluminium/zinc composite strikes me a dubious. The metalisation can be
    either aluminium or zinc, but putting both down on the same film does seem to be improbable. Metal-spraying the ends of a
    capacitor with finely divided molten zinc to connect the aluminium films to real wires does seem to happen.

    The self-healing properties of evaporated metallic films does imply the films are made as thin as they can be - which is to say
    just thick enough that the thinnest areas are just one atom thick. I should ahve thought of earlier - I've known about
    self-healing forever, but don't get to think about it all that often.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 01, 2026 01:08:30
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:10:13 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 4:59 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 16:13:21 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>> wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I make a habit of it. You didn't post the link you seem to have been
    relying on, and and you don't seem to have learned as much from it as
    you might have done. Your claim that the metalisation can be an
    aluminium/zinc composite strikes me a dubious. The metalisation can be
    either aluminium or zinc, but putting both down on the same film does
    seem to be improbable.

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    You advanced the proposition - it's up to you to find the evidence to >support it.

    Not a bit.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 01, 2026 01:10:06
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>> wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo >>>>>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to >>>>>> provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than >>>>> that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points, >>>>> and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of >>>> aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 ?


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
    films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all >>>>> the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get >>>>> carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of >>>>> metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine. >>>>>
    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap
    regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.


    back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.

    The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about "T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but doesn't
    suggest that this is what is usually meant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    I make a habit of it.

    Except in this case where you are clearly unable to do so.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminium%2Fzinc+composite+capacitor+film&csuir=1

    If the AI summary doesn't appear click AI mode.

    This is actually the informative link.

    https://www.capacitorconnect.com/what-are-different-types-of-metallization-used-in-capacitor-films/

    It seems that in some applications it is worth putting down an initial - >very tin layer of aluminium to give a somewhat thicker layer of zinc, >something that is easier to bond to than bare plastic film. The link
    does make the point that zinc films self-heal better than aluminium
    films - it takes less energy to blow it away from the short-circuit path
    - but they do oxidise at room temperature in way that alumniuum films >don't.

    Told ya so.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 02:25:38
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo >>>>>>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to >>>>>>> provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than >>>>>> that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points, >>>>>> and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of >>>>> aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 ?


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin >>>>>> films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all >>>>>> the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get >>>>>> carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of >>>>>> metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine. >>>>>>
    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap >>>>> regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.


    back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.

    The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about "T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but doesn't
    suggest that this is what is usually meant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    I make a habit of it.

    Except in this case where you are clearly unable to do so.

    More unwilling than incapable. Educating you is a thankless task, in
    large part because you don't show any sigh of getting educated by
    exposure to more detailed information.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminium%2Fzinc+composite+capacitor+film&csuir=1

    If the AI summary doesn't appear click AI mode.

    This is actually the informative link.

    https://www.capacitorconnect.com/what-are-different-types-of-metallization-used-in-capacitor-films/

    It seems that in some applications it is worth putting down an initial -
    very thin layer of aluminium to give a somewhat thicker layer of zinc,
    something that is easier to bond to than bare plastic film. The link
    does make the point that zinc films self-heal better than aluminium
    films - it takes less energy to blow it away from the short-circuit path
    - but they do oxidise at room temperature in way that alumniuum films
    don't.

    Told ya so.

    You didn't. You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence. You did
    post a link that presented a whole grab-bag of possible sources, but you didn't identify any of them as actually useful, so you didn't tell me anything. Even the sloppy nature of your thinking that this revealed
    (again) has been on show for the past twenty years.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 01, 2026 12:35:47
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo >>>>>>>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.

    Where? I could do it for myself,

    For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to >>>>>>>> provide suitable links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14

    https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14

    As a side note, someone made this:
    https://udm14.com/
    But I doubt that that will last many years.

    The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than >>>>>>> that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points,
    and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.

    The basic google query says

    AI Overview
    Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
    Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of >>>>>> aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 ?


    There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin >>>>>>> films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all
    the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get >>>>>>> carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of >>>>>>> metalisation thickness as a pile of atoms.

    but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine. >>>>>>>
    You didn't shine.

    The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap >>>>>> regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
    aluminum/zinc composite layers.


    back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.

    The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about "T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but
    doesn't
    suggest that this is what is usually meant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor

    You are allowed to look that up and learn.

    I make a habit of it.

    Except in this case where you are clearly unable to do so.

    More unwilling than incapable. Educating you is a thankless task, in large part because you don't show any sigh of getting
    educated by exposure to more detailed information.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminium%2Fzinc+composite+capacitor+film&csuir=1

    If the AI summary doesn't appear click AI mode.

    This is actually the informative link.

    https://www.capacitorconnect.com/what-are-different-types-of-metallization-used-in-capacitor-films/

    It seems that in some applications it is worth putting down an initial - >>> very thin layer of aluminium to give a somewhat thicker layer of zinc,
    something that is easier to bond to than bare plastic film. The link
    does make the point that zinc films self-heal better than aluminium
    films - it takes less energy to blow it away from the short-circuit path >>> - but they do oxidise at room temperature in way that alumniuum films
    don't.

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they
    may already know.

    You did post a link that presented a whole grab-bag of possible sources, but you didn't identify any of them as actually useful,
    so you didn't tell me anything. Even the sloppy nature of your thinking that this revealed (again) has been on show for the past
    twenty years.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 14:54:36
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or less
    accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he
    didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what the specific
    information meant.

    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for
    ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this particular instance
    he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    You did post a link that presented a whole grab-bag of possible sources, but you didn't identify any of them as actually useful,
    so you didn't tell me anything. Even the sloppy nature of your thinking that this revealed (again) has been on show for the past
    twenty years.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 00:07:20
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject a few years ago.
    From a teenager.


    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every
    statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they >> may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or
    less accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what
    the specific information meant.

    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this
    particular instance he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    You did post a link that presented a whole grab-bag of possible sources, but you didn't identify any of them as actually useful,
    so you didn't tell me anything. Even the sloppy nature of your thinking that this revealed (again) has been on show for the past
    twenty years.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 17:40:39
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ross Finlayson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 06:53:12
    On 04/01/2026 11:40 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject
    a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    Weren't we having a conversation here?

    Something about power conversion (and inversion), ...,
    not so much the "projection".

    "Chivalry's not dead /
    it's just curled up /
    weakly kicking in the corner /
    with Courtesy and Conversation."



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 10:32:23
    "Ross Finlayson" <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote in message news:WsGdnXCwG5dQ6VP0nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 04/01/2026 11:40 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject
    a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    Weren't we having a conversation here?

    Yes but then Bill arrived.
    I'm done with this.


    Something about power conversion (and inversion), ...,
    not so much the "projection".

    "Chivalry's not dead /
    it's just curled up /
    weakly kicking in the corner /
    with Courtesy and Conversation."





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 08:05:49
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    That makes life more enjoyable. Are you ever amused? Certainly not
    here.


    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every
    statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they >> may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc >metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or less
    accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he >didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what the specific >information meant.

    I said that film caps do not use single-atom thick metalization, and
    that some use combined aluminum and zinc metalization. I learned those
    in a few minutes of web searching.


    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for >ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this particular instance
    he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    It wasn't hard to find facts about metalization. The mystery is why
    you couldn't.

    I wonder how really big caps are constructed, like the utility
    power-factor things.

    I used to buy huge oil caps when I was a kid, to pop flashtubes or
    just make loud noises. I'd run them at all the voltage I could make,
    like 25 KV.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 08:07:42
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 06:53:12 -0700, Ross Finlayson
    <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 04/01/2026 11:40 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject
    a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    Weren't we having a conversation here?

    Something about power conversion (and inversion), ...,
    not so much the "projection".

    "Chivalry's not dead /
    it's just curled up /
    weakly kicking in the corner /
    with Courtesy and Conversation."


    It had drifted into the metalization of film capacitors.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 02:45:10
    On 3/04/2026 1:32 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Ross Finlayson" <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote in message news:WsGdnXCwG5dQ6VP0nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 04/01/2026 11:40 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject >>>> a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    Weren't we having a conversation here?

    Some of us were, then Edward Rawde horned in. Like John Larkin, he
    expects more respect than he deserves, and is resentful about not
    getting it.

    Yes but then Bill arrived.
    I'm done with this.

    He injects himself into the conversation, gets rebuked and retreats in a
    tiff.

    Something about power conversion (and inversion), ...,
    not so much the "projection".

    The thread warped into an discussion of metallised film capacitors. You
    had posted a daft idea about making compact high value capacitors by effectively crumpling up the opposed surfaces as matching beds of nails, ignoring the fact that spikes generate field emission current.

    Arc discharges depend on this fact - the discharging surface gets hot
    enough to distort into lots of small but very sharp spikes when
    subjected to a high electric field.

    <snip>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ross Finlayson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 09:04:26
    On 04/02/2026 08:07 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 06:53:12 -0700, Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 04/01/2026 11:40 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject >>>> a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    Weren't we having a conversation here?

    Something about power conversion (and inversion), ...,
    not so much the "projection".

    "Chivalry's not dead /
    it's just curled up /
    weakly kicking in the corner /
    with Courtesy and Conversation."


    It had drifted into the metalization of film capacitors.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics


    Common interests are wide and varied,
    everybody has a unique and distinct perspective.

    There's something to appreciate from all the contributors,
    better than the usual dead-internet bot-net,
    and often enough a gentle barb is appreciable a smooth jibe,
    then for the gentlemanly, scholarly, and professional.


    "Don't argue with a pig, both get dirty and the pig likes it."
    "Don't argue with stupidity, it gets stupid and they have
    lots more experience."

    Trapping and dispatching trolls is a common enough exchange
    in plain unmoderated open forums of the voluntary sort.


    I respect elders, even old farts, or as Mark put it one
    time upon retirement, "now I'm retarded".

    It reminds me of the chemistry instructor's lab-coat buttons,
    "old age and experience beats youth and vigor", or, the old
    "hydrogen cyanide is all natural".




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ross Finlayson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 09:06:19
    On 04/02/2026 08:45 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 3/04/2026 1:32 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Ross Finlayson" <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:WsGdnXCwG5dQ6VP0nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 04/01/2026 11:40 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different subject >>>>> a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    Weren't we having a conversation here?

    Some of us were, then Edward Rawde horned in. Like John Larkin, he
    expects more respect than he deserves, and is resentful about not
    getting it.

    Yes but then Bill arrived.
    I'm done with this.

    He injects himself into the conversation, gets rebuked and retreats in a tiff.

    Something about power conversion (and inversion), ...,
    not so much the "projection".

    The thread warped into an discussion of metallised film capacitors. You
    had posted a daft idea about making compact high value capacitors by effectively crumpling up the opposed surfaces as matching beds of nails, ignoring the fact that spikes generate field emission current.

    Arc discharges depend on this fact - the discharging surface gets hot
    enough to distort into lots of small but very sharp spikes when
    subjected to a high electric field.

    <snip>


    Aye, it's a simplest sort of idea of an ideal super-capacitor,
    then about the why's and wherefore's.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 03:16:33
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    That makes life more enjoyable. Are you ever amused? Certainly not
    here.


    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every
    statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they >>> may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc
    metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or less
    accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he
    didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what the specific
    information meant.

    I said that film caps do not use single-atom thick metalization, and
    that some use combined aluminum and zinc metalization. I learned those
    in a few minutes of web searching.
    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for
    ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this particular instance
    he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    It wasn't hard to find facts about metalization. The mystery is why
    you couldn't.

    I certainly could have done, but you'd made the claim - why should I
    bother? When I looked at one of the several links you'd posted, I was
    able to dig out a tolerably coherent exposition of what was actually
    going on, and posted it, which you hadn't done.

    I wonder how really big caps are constructed, like the utility
    power-factor things.

    If you had read the link you posted, you'd have found out.

    The problem with very high voltage differences is that you get corona discharge, so you have to limit the voltage over individual gaps to less
    than about 100V. If you just stack your film layers you can do that.

    There's no explicit DC path between the successive layers, but the
    leakage current rises rapidly (and quasi exponentially) with voltage and
    the leakage currents adjust the DC gradient to a nice even distribution between layers.

    I used to buy huge oil caps when I was a kid, to pop flashtubes or
    just make loud noises. I'd run them at all the voltage I could make,
    like 25 KV.

    The fluid used to fill them was a nasty halogenated hydrocarbon. It got
    phased out decades ago on health grounds.

    Sulphur hexafloride is even better at damping out arc discharges, but it
    is remarkably potent greenhouse gas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_hexafluoride

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ross Finlayson@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 09:16:53
    On 04/02/2026 09:06 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 04/02/2026 08:45 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 3/04/2026 1:32 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Ross Finlayson" <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:WsGdnXCwG5dQ6VP0nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 04/01/2026 11:40 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:07 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qkpa5$piq2$2@dont-email.me...
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
    news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    I think I remember getting a response like that on a different
    subject
    a few years ago.
    From a teenager.

    Some teenagers are pretty good at recognising childish responses.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    Weren't we having a conversation here?

    Some of us were, then Edward Rawde horned in. Like John Larkin, he
    expects more respect than he deserves, and is resentful about not
    getting it.

    Yes but then Bill arrived.
    I'm done with this.

    He injects himself into the conversation, gets rebuked and retreats in a
    tiff.

    Something about power conversion (and inversion), ...,
    not so much the "projection".

    The thread warped into an discussion of metallised film capacitors. You
    had posted a daft idea about making compact high value capacitors by
    effectively crumpling up the opposed surfaces as matching beds of nails,
    ignoring the fact that spikes generate field emission current.

    Arc discharges depend on this fact - the discharging surface gets hot
    enough to distort into lots of small but very sharp spikes when
    subjected to a high electric field.

    <snip>


    Aye, it's a simplest sort of idea of an ideal super-capacitor,
    then about the why's and wherefore's.



    There's an idea to introduce a third medium, besides the conductor
    spikes and dielectric fill, to insulate the spikes except the facing
    tips, or for example to give each spike a "base collector".

    It is what it is and does what it does - solid state analog electrical
    devices.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 02, 2026 20:51:54
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    That makes life more enjoyable. Are you ever amused? Certainly not
    here.


    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every >>>> statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they >>>> may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc
    metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or less
    accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he
    didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what the specific
    information meant.

    I said that film caps do not use single-atom thick metalization, and
    that some use combined aluminum and zinc metalization. I learned those
    in a few minutes of web searching.
    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for
    ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this particular instance
    he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    It wasn't hard to find facts about metalization. The mystery is why
    you couldn't.

    I certainly could have done, but you'd made the claim - why should I bother?

    Er, because you disputed the claim. And got it wrong.

    When I looked at one of the several links you'd posted, I was able to dig out a tolerably coherent exposition of what was actually
    going on, and posted it, which you hadn't done.

    I wonder how really big caps are constructed, like the utility
    power-factor things.

    If you had read the link you posted, you'd have found out.

    The problem with very high voltage differences is that you get corona discharge, so you have to limit the voltage over individual
    gaps to less than about 100V. If you just stack your film layers you can do that.

    There's no explicit DC path between the successive layers, but the leakage current rises rapidly (and quasi exponentially) with
    voltage and the leakage currents adjust the DC gradient to a nice even distribution between layers.

    I used to buy huge oil caps when I was a kid, to pop flashtubes or
    just make loud noises. I'd run them at all the voltage I could make,
    like 25 KV.

    The fluid used to fill them was a nasty halogenated hydrocarbon. It got phased out decades ago on health grounds.

    Sulphur hexafloride is even better at damping out arc discharges, but it is remarkably potent greenhouse gas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_hexafluoride

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 16:29:55
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    That makes life more enjoyable. Are you ever amused? Certainly not
    here.


    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every >>>>> statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they
    may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc >>>> metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or less
    accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he >>>> didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what the specific
    information meant.

    I said that film caps do not use single-atom thick metalization, and
    that some use combined aluminum and zinc metalization. I learned those
    in a few minutes of web searching.
    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for
    ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this particular instance >>>> he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    It wasn't hard to find facts about metalization. The mystery is why
    you couldn't.

    I certainly could have done, but you'd made the claim - why should I bother?

    Er, because you disputed the claim. And got it wrong.

    I didn't actually dispute the claim - I just said that I hadn't heard
    that mixed zinc and aluminium metalisation was ever used.

    After I'd dug into the pile of links that John Larkin had posted -
    apparently without bothering to read any of them - I found one example
    of mixed use - when a thin layer of aluminium metalisation was used to
    provide better substrate for a slightly thicker layer of zinc.

    It's not exactly mixed use - all the aluminium substrate does is provide
    a firmer foundation for the zinc layer that does all the work.

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that
    way, but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that
    John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the process.

    --

    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JM@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 07:22:03
    On Fri, 3 Apr 2026 16:29:55 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    That makes life more enjoyable. Are you ever amused? Certainly not
    here.


    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every >>>>>> statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they
    may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc >>>>> metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or less
    accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he >>>>> didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what the specific
    information meant.

    I said that film caps do not use single-atom thick metalization, and
    that some use combined aluminum and zinc metalization. I learned those >>>> in a few minutes of web searching.
    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for >>>>> ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this particular instance >>>>> he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    It wasn't hard to find facts about metalization. The mystery is why
    you couldn't.

    I certainly could have done, but you'd made the claim - why should I bother?

    Er, because you disputed the claim. And got it wrong.

    I didn't actually dispute the claim - I just said that I hadn't heard
    that mixed zinc and aluminium metalisation was ever used.

    After I'd dug into the pile of links that John Larkin had posted - >apparently without bothering to read any of them - I found one example
    of mixed use - when a thin layer of aluminium metalisation was used to >provide better substrate for a slightly thicker layer of zinc.

    It's not exactly mixed use - all the aluminium substrate does is provide
    a firmer foundation for the zinc layer that does all the work.

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that >way, but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that >John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the process.

    https://1drv.ms/b/c/1af24d72a509cd48/IQBYfKyk9nIrT6JxVc55ToI0AfES7XT2SXJi6cfeBpJhM-8?e=Aj1HWd

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 12:17:51
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Told ya so.

    You didn't.

    Yes he did.

    In your ever-so-expert opinion.

    You made a bald claim unsupported by any evidence.

    LOL

    Edward Rawde is easily amused.

    That makes life more enjoyable. Are you ever amused? Certainly not
    here.


    Eb Major has three flats.
    I can find evidence if you want but I don't provide evidence for every >>>>>> statement I make because others can either find out for themselves or they
    may already know.

    John Larkin made vague and unsupported claims about aluminium and zinc >>>>> metallisation in plastic film capacitors. He did - more or less
    accidentally - came up with a link to more specific information, but he >>>>> didn't highlight the link in any way or indicate what the specific
    information meant.

    I said that film caps do not use single-atom thick metalization, and
    that some use combined aluminum and zinc metalization. I learned those >>>> in a few minutes of web searching.
    It is perfectly true that any of us might have come up with that for >>>>> ourselves if we had looked hard enough, but in this particular instance >>>>> he didn't look very hard. He rarely does.

    It wasn't hard to find facts about metalization. The mystery is why
    you couldn't.

    I certainly could have done, but you'd made the claim - why should I bother?

    Er, because you disputed the claim. And got it wrong.

    I didn't actually dispute the claim - I just said that I hadn't heard that mixed zinc and aluminium metalisation was ever used.

    After I'd dug into the pile of links that John Larkin had posted - apparently without bothering to read any of them - I found one
    example of mixed use - when a thin layer of aluminium metalisation was used to provide better substrate for a slightly thicker
    layer of zinc.

    It's not exactly mixed use - all the aluminium substrate does is provide a firmer foundation for the zinc layer that does all the
    work.

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are.

    but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the
    process.

    --

    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 04, 2026 05:10:44
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are.

    I certainly didn't produce as good a response as John May has, much as I
    would have liked to, and to that extent I have got it wrong. You haven't contributed anything useful at all. I suspect the pecking order goes
    John May, me, John Larkin and you, with your "contribution" being
    entirely negative. You have done better in the past, but this wasn't one
    of your merely mediocre days.

    but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the
    process.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 19:16:45
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are.

    I certainly didn't produce as good a response as John May has, much as I would have liked to, and to that extent I have got it
    wrong. You haven't contributed anything useful at all. I suspect the pecking order goes John May, me, John Larkin and you, with
    your "contribution" being entirely negative. You have done better in the past, but this wasn't one of your merely mediocre days.

    Thank you Headmaster. I'll try to do better next time.

    You clearly have a desperate need to compare yourself with others Bill.
    And a desperate need to be up there with those whom you perceive to be up there.
    And a desperate need for respect, rather than criticism (direct or implied), from those whom you perceive to be up there ahead of
    you.
    And a desperate need to be disrespectful to those whom you perceive to be not as up there as you are.

    As I see it, two interesting things drop out of this.

    One is that those who really are up there don't seem to have these needs, but I don't speak for them.

    The other is that you expect respect, not criticism, from those whom you perceive to be up there ahead of you.
    And your head nearly explodes if they do make a post which implies that you might have been wrong.
    But you show no respect to those whom you perceive to be not as up there as you are.

    Here's a further contribution from myself.

    I've no idea who got what from who or what its origin was but if I wanted to know anything about capacitors I'd start here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/introduction-to-capacitors-huayu/

    And after a while I'd find myself here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/metallized-films/

    Scroll down to metallized electrode.

    I found that information while looking for information in addition to the information JM posted.
    To find it I had to think outside the Google box.


    but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the
    process.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Friday, April 03, 2026 16:30:11
    On Fri, 3 Apr 2026 19:16:45 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are. >>
    I certainly didn't produce as good a response as John May has, much as I would have liked to, and to that extent I have got it
    wrong. You haven't contributed anything useful at all. I suspect the pecking order goes John May, me, John Larkin and you, with
    your "contribution" being entirely negative. You have done better in the past, but this wasn't one of your merely mediocre days.

    Thank you Headmaster. I'll try to do better next time.

    You have been told that you are stupid. Say three Hail Billies and
    confess your sins and try to be better in the future.




    You clearly have a desperate need to compare yourself with others Bill.
    And a desperate need to be up there with those whom you perceive to be up there.
    And a desperate need for respect, rather than criticism (direct or implied), from those whom you perceive to be up there ahead of
    you.
    And a desperate need to be disrespectful to those whom you perceive to be not as up there as you are.

    As I see it, two interesting things drop out of this.

    One is that those who really are up there don't seem to have these needs, but I don't speak for them.

    The other is that you expect respect, not criticism, from those whom you perceive to be up there ahead of you.
    And your head nearly explodes if they do make a post which implies that you might have been wrong.
    But you show no respect to those whom you perceive to be not as up there as you are.

    Here's a further contribution from myself.

    I've no idea who got what from who or what its origin was but if I wanted to know anything about capacitors I'd start here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/introduction-to-capacitors-huayu/

    And after a while I'd find myself here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/metallized-films/

    Scroll down to metallized electrode.

    I found that information while looking for information in addition to the information JM posted.
    To find it I had to think outside the Google box.


    but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the
    process.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney




    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 04, 2026 16:55:10
    On 4/04/2026 10:16 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are. >>
    I certainly didn't produce as good a response as John May has, much as I would have liked to, and to that extent I have got it
    wrong. You haven't contributed anything useful at all. I suspect the pecking order goes John May, me, John Larkin and you, with
    your "contribution" being entirely negative. You have done better in the past, but this wasn't one of your merely mediocre days.

    Thank you Headmaster. I'll try to do better next time.

    <snipped the amateur psychology>

    As I see it, two interesting things drop out of this.

    One is that those who really are up there don't seem to have these needs, but I don't speak for them.

    The other is that you expect respect, not criticism, from those whom you perceive to be up there ahead of you.

    That's kind of weird. I don't expect "respect" from anybody.
    Well-founded criticism is useful, and I do pay attention to it.

    And your head nearly explodes if they do make a post which implies that you might have been wrong.
    But you show no respect to those whom you perceive to be not as up there as you are.

    I don't like being told that I was wrong when I what I posted was less
    wrong than the post I was responding too, and I'm even less enthusiastic
    about people who do it without posting a shred of justification for the
    claim.

    Here's a further contribution from myself.

    I've no idea who got what from who or what its origin was but if I wanted to know anything about capacitors I'd start here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/introduction-to-capacitors-huayu/

    You should know where it came from Company Name: Nantong Huayu
    Electronic Co., Ltd. founded in 1987 in China

    And after a while I'd find myself here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/metallized-films/

    Scroll down to metallized electrode.

    I found that information while looking for information in addition to the information JM posted.
    To find it I had to think outside the Google box.

    It pretty much duplicates the information in the link that John May
    posted, and was presumably derived from the same source. I'd suspect
    Mullard from the style - their application data was never as technical
    as the stuff that came from Siemens, and less well grounded in the
    fundamental physics.

    What's missing is any indication that the metalisation goes down in
    isolated islands which have to be bridged to adjacent islands by at
    least two bridges that have to be at least a single atom thick - since
    the metalisation seems to go down as multi-atom crystalites the bridges
    aren't likely to be single atoms. Expressing that in an easily
    comprehensible form for people who don't like thinking about single
    atoms isn't all that easy.

    but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the
    process.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 04, 2026 17:05:24
    On 4/04/2026 10:30 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 3 Apr 2026 19:16:45 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are.

    I certainly didn't produce as good a response as John May has, much as I would have liked to, and to that extent I have got it
    wrong. You haven't contributed anything useful at all. I suspect the pecking order goes John May, me, John Larkin and you, with
    your "contribution" being entirely negative. You have done better in the past, but this wasn't one of your merely mediocre days.

    Thank you Headmaster. I'll try to do better next time.

    You have been told that you are stupid. Say three Hail Billies and
    confess your sins and try to be better in the future.

    Edward Rawde isn't stupid. He's not clever, but he does come up with
    good ideas from time to time. The thread on very low distortion sine
    wave oscillators come to mind - John May did improve on his improvement
    by chopping out several transistors, and I managed to improve a little
    on John May's improved circuit by plugging in an extra transistor and
    going for a bit more bias current. It was very much a joint effort,
    though Edward doesn't seem to see it that way.

    He certainly isn't any kind of sinner, if less collegial than he might
    be. He does share that defect with you.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 04, 2026 11:02:18
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qq9nk$eqsg$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 10:30 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 3 Apr 2026 19:16:45 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are.

    I certainly didn't produce as good a response as John May has, much as I would have liked to, and to that extent I have got it
    wrong. You haven't contributed anything useful at all. I suspect the pecking order goes John May, me, John Larkin and you, with
    your "contribution" being entirely negative. You have done better in the past, but this wasn't one of your merely mediocre
    days.

    Thank you Headmaster. I'll try to do better next time.

    You have been told that you are stupid. Say three Hail Billies and
    confess your sins and try to be better in the future.

    Edward Rawde isn't stupid. He's not clever, but he does come up with good ideas from time to time. The thread on very low
    distortion sine wave oscillators come to mind - John May did improve on his improvement by chopping out several transistors, and I
    managed to improve a little on John May's improved circuit by plugging in an extra transistor and going for a bit more bias
    current. It was very much a joint effort, though Edward doesn't seem to see it that way.

    LOL the ciruit was almost entirely due to JM, particularly the oscillator.
    I had already got as far as polyphase but JM's oscillator and polyphase rectifier is much better than the circuit I arrived at myself.


    He certainly isn't any kind of sinner, if less collegial than he might be. He does share that defect with you.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, April 04, 2026 11:35:21
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qq94e$eqsg$1@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 10:16 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    I didn't "get it wrong" no matter how much you would like to see it that way,

    Of course not Bill. It is clear that you can't be wrong. Even when you are.

    I certainly didn't produce as good a response as John May has, much as I would have liked to, and to that extent I have got it
    wrong. You haven't contributed anything useful at all. I suspect the pecking order goes John May, me, John Larkin and you, with
    your "contribution" being entirely negative. You have done better in the past, but this wasn't one of your merely mediocre days.

    Thank you Headmaster. I'll try to do better next time.

    <snipped the amateur psychology>

    As I see it, two interesting things drop out of this.

    One is that those who really are up there don't seem to have these needs, but I don't speak for them.

    The other is that you expect respect, not criticism, from those whom you perceive to be up there ahead of you.

    That's kind of weird. I don't expect "respect" from anybody. Well-founded criticism is useful, and I do pay attention to it.

    And your head nearly explodes if they do make a post which implies that you might have been wrong.
    But you show no respect to those whom you perceive to be not as up there as you are.

    I don't like being told that I was wrong when I what I posted was less wrong than the post I was responding too, and I'm even less
    enthusiastic about people who do it without posting a shred of justification for the claim.

    Here's a further contribution from myself.

    I've no idea who got what from who or what its origin was but if I wanted to know anything about capacitors I'd start here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/introduction-to-capacitors-huayu/

    You should know where it came from Company Name: Nantong Huayu Electronic Co., Ltd. founded in 1987 in China

    I can assure you that I'm able to copy/paste from a web site Bill.
    You missed the point, which was that I was curious how the information JM posted can also be found word for word (less the page, figure and table numbers)
    on a Chinese web site. The spelling of aluminium is also interesting.


    And after a while I'd find myself here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/metallized-films/

    Scroll down to metallized electrode.

    I found that information while looking for information in addition to the information JM posted.
    To find it I had to think outside the Google box.

    It pretty much duplicates the information in the link that John May posted, and was presumably derived from the same source. I'd
    suspect Mullard from the style - their application data was never as technical as the stuff that came from Siemens, and less well
    grounded in the fundamental physics.

    What's missing is any indication that the metalisation goes down in isolated islands which have to be bridged to adjacent islands
    by at least two bridges that have to be at least a single atom thick - since the metalisation seems to go down as multi-atom
    crystalites the bridges aren't likely to be single atoms. Expressing that in an easily comprehensible form for people who don't
    like thinking about single atoms isn't all that easy.

    but rather provoked an eventually more informative answer, not that John Larkin contributed all that he might have done to the
    process.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 12:53:06
    On 5/04/2026 2:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qq94e$eqsg$1@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 10:16 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Here's a further contribution from myself.

    I've no idea who got what from who or what its origin was but if I wanted to know anything about capacitors I'd start here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/introduction-to-capacitors-huayu/

    You should know where it came from Company Name: Nantong Huayu Electronic Co., Ltd. founded in 1987 in China

    I can assure you that I'm able to copy/paste from a web site Bill.
    You missed the point, which was that I was curious how the information JM posted can also be found word for word (less the page, figure and table numbers)
    on a Chinese web site. The spelling of aluminium is also interesting.

    But that isn't what you posted. and you clearly hadn't read the whole of
    my post when you posted that comment. I made the same point about the information matching John May's document, and speculated that it
    orginaly came from Mullard, a British firm, if eventually taken over by Philips, who would have used the European spelling of alumimium, rather
    than the American "aluminum".

    <snip>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 00:29:03
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qsiqj$14ghd$2@dont-email.me...
    On 5/04/2026 2:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qq94e$eqsg$1@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 10:16 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    Here's a further contribution from myself.

    I've no idea who got what from who or what its origin was but if I wanted to know anything about capacitors I'd start here:

    https://www.nthuayu.cn/technology/introduction-to-capacitors-huayu/

    You should know where it came from Company Name: Nantong Huayu Electronic Co., Ltd. founded in 1987 in China

    I can assure you that I'm able to copy/paste from a web site Bill.
    You missed the point, which was that I was curious how the information JM
    posted can also be found word for word (less the page, figure and table numbers)
    on a Chinese web site. The spelling of aluminium is also interesting.

    But that isn't what you posted. and you clearly hadn't read the whole of my post when you posted that comment. I made the same
    point about the information matching John May's document, and speculated that it orginaly came from Mullard, a British firm, if
    eventually taken over by Philips, who would have used the European spelling of alumimium, rather than the American "aluminum".

    LOL How do you think I determined that the information JM posted matched
    that web site Bill?


    <snip>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 15:46:32
    On 5/04/2026 2:29 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qsiqj$14ghd$2@dont-email.me...
    On 5/04/2026 2:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qq94e$eqsg$1@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 10:16 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    LOL How do you think I determined that the information JM posted matched
    that web site Bill?

    Who cares? "Determined " is a pretentious choice of word. There are lots
    of ways you could have done it, and you haven't specified which one you
    chose. I thought that the content pretty much matched the content of
    John May's document, but I didn't test it explicitly, and certainly
    didn't "determine" anything.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Edward Rawde@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 01:55:48
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qssvp$178t2$1@dont-email.me...
    On 5/04/2026 2:29 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qsiqj$14ghd$2@dont-email.me...
    On 5/04/2026 2:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qq94e$eqsg$1@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 10:16 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    LOL How do you think I determined that the information JM posted matched
    that web site Bill?

    Who cares? "Determined " is a pretentious choice of word. There are lots of ways you could have done it, and you haven't specified
    which one you chose. I thought that the content pretty much matched the content of John May's document, but I didn't test it
    explicitly, and certainly didn't "determine" anything.

    Oh it certainly matches, but whether or not it has anything to do with Philips is unknown.
    I don't know exactly when Philips stopped making capacitors but it was a long time ago
    and you might find it hard to get anything new which wasn't made in China these days.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 05, 2026 16:57:25
    On 5/04/2026 3:55 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qssvp$178t2$1@dont-email.me...
    On 5/04/2026 2:29 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qsiqj$14ghd$2@dont-email.me...
    On 5/04/2026 2:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qq94e$eqsg$1@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 10:16 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qovrh$44s8$2@dont-email.me...
    On 4/04/2026 3:17 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qnj90$1mmha$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 11:51 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qm4pe$1832s$1@dont-email.me...
    On 3/04/2026 2:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 14:54:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 2/04/2026 3:35 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qjddp$ad1m$2@dont-email.me...
    On 1/04/2026 7:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 1 Apr 2026 15:36:25 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 1/04/2026 11:34 am, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me...
    On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
    On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:

    <snip>

    LOL How do you think I determined that the information JM posted matched >>> that web site Bill?

    Who cares? "Determined " is a pretentious choice of word. There are lots of ways you could have done it, and you haven't specified
    which one you chose. I thought that the content pretty much matched the content of John May's document, but I didn't test it
    explicitly, and certainly didn't "determine" anything.

    Oh it certainly matches, but whether or not it has anything to do with Philips is unknown.

    Philips application notes tend to be a bit better than that. They may
    have called on their NatLab staff.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_Natuurkundig_Laboratorium

    Mullard was owned by Philips from early on, but seems to have stayed
    pretty independent. Their diabolical magnetioc application notes seem to
    have been written by E.C.Snelling and are the worst application notes
    I've ever had to plow through. The Seimens equivalents were definitely superior, and after I'd mastered them I did much better.

    I don't know exactly when Philips stopped making capacitors but it was a long time ago
    and you might find it hard to get anything new which wasn't made in China these days.

    China is in the business of making everything and exporting it
    everywhere. Film capacitors use a variety of plastic films - poly
    propylene seems to be the most popular, and that wasn't developed until
    1951 or widely sold until 1957, which is still long before China could
    have manufactured it.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)