• A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origin of life

    From Jan Panteltje@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, July 19, 2026 15:45:59
    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 02:34:24
    On 20/07/2026 1:45 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    Asteroid and meteorites get quite hot (or at least their outsides do)
    when they go through the atmosphere on their way down to earth. There's
    not a lot of organic chemistry that would survive that.

    The sun now emits quite a lot of hard ultra violet light and a certain
    amount higher energy radiation which doesn't make it through the earth's atmopshere.

    The earth seems to have had a molten rock surface early in its career,
    and that wouldn't have been all that receptive either.

    It is an interesting area of study, but getting the results down to
    earth may be tricky.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, July 19, 2026 11:31:26
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, July 19, 2026 20:35:02
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> spake the secret code <113irfo$fa0j$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.

    And this has what, exactly, to do with electronics design?

    Not "science." Not "interesting." Not "contains a glass tube." Not
    "somebody somewhere used an instrument that had electrons in it." What
    does copy/pasting a university press release about a hyped-up origin-of-life experiment from a PhD student have to do with designing electronics?

    This is sci.electronics.design, not sci.random-press-release-pastebin.
    If there is an electronics angle, state it. What circuit? What instrumentation? What detector? What vacuum control? What measurement problem? What design tradeoff? What failure mode? What schematic
    question? Anything?

    Last week it was Chinese rocket cheerleading with a pointless little
    "bye bye Elon" garnish, as if sci.electronics.design needed another geopolitical fortune cookie from the Ministry of Copy/Paste. Now it is
    cosmic dust in a bottle, because apparently anything with a ScienceDaily headline and enough shiny nouns qualifies as electronics design after it
    has passed through your newsreader.

    You are not starting a technical discussion. You are flyposting headlines. That is not contribution, it is RSS with a pulse.

    Try this next time: before pasting the press release, identify the actual electronics design issue you want discussed. If you cannot find one, that
    is the clue that the article belongs somewhere else, preferably in the same drawer as the rocket propaganda and the Elon reflex.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, July 19, 2026 13:49:31
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 20:35:02 -0000 (UTC),
    legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) wrote:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> spake the secret code ><113irfo$fa0j$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed
    among the stars.

    And this has what, exactly, to do with electronics design?

    Not "science." Not "interesting." Not "contains a glass tube." Not >"somebody somewhere used an instrument that had electrons in it." What
    does copy/pasting a university press release about a hyped-up origin-of-life >experiment from a PhD student have to do with designing electronics?

    This is sci.electronics.design, not sci.random-press-release-pastebin.
    If there is an electronics angle, state it. What circuit? What >instrumentation? What detector? What vacuum control? What measurement >problem? What design tradeoff? What failure mode? What schematic
    question? Anything?

    Last week it was Chinese rocket cheerleading with a pointless little
    "bye bye Elon" garnish, as if sci.electronics.design needed another >geopolitical fortune cookie from the Ministry of Copy/Paste. Now it is >cosmic dust in a bottle, because apparently anything with a ScienceDaily >headline and enough shiny nouns qualifies as electronics design after it
    has passed through your newsreader.

    You are not starting a technical discussion. You are flyposting headlines. >That is not contribution, it is RSS with a pulse.

    Try this next time: before pasting the press release, identify the actual >electronics design issue you want discussed. If you cannot find one, that
    is the clue that the article belongs somewhere else, preferably in the same >drawer as the rocket propaganda and the Elon reflex.

    What are you designing now?


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jan Panteltje@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 05:11:00
    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.

    Could you with your wisdom elaborate a bit on that?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jan Panteltje@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 05:46:26
    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 20:35:02 -0000 (UTC),
    legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) wrote:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> spake the secret code >><113irfo$fa0j$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed >>> among the stars.

    And this has what, exactly, to do with electronics design?

    Not "science." Not "interesting." Not "contains a glass tube." Not >>"somebody somewhere used an instrument that had electrons in it." What >>does copy/pasting a university press release about a hyped-up origin-of-life >>experiment from a PhD student have to do with designing electronics?

    This is sci.electronics.design, not sci.random-press-release-pastebin.
    If there is an electronics angle, state it. What circuit? What >>instrumentation? What detector? What vacuum control? What measurement >>problem? What design tradeoff? What failure mode? What schematic >>question? Anything?

    Last week it was Chinese rocket cheerleading with a pointless little
    "bye bye Elon" garnish, as if sci.electronics.design needed another >>geopolitical fortune cookie from the Ministry of Copy/Paste. Now it is >>cosmic dust in a bottle, because apparently anything with a ScienceDaily >>headline and enough shiny nouns qualifies as electronics design after it >>has passed through your newsreader.

    You are not starting a technical discussion. You are flyposting headlines. >>That is not contribution, it is RSS with a pulse.

    Try this next time: before pasting the press release, identify the actual >>electronics design issue you want discussed. If you cannot find one, that >>is the clue that the article belongs somewhere else, preferably in the same >>drawer as the rocket propaganda and the Elon reflex.

    What are you designing now?

    He is too stupid to see the opportunity to design the high voltage stuff for it.
    Electronics is not a subject into itself
    it is always about applications.
    Peepholes like him will never be able to solve problems with electronics.
    And he never did!
    And likely never will!
    Beep

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 16:26:47
    On 20/07/2026 4:31 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.

    But the ingredients have structure. DNA was labelled the golden helix
    because it has a spiral structure.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Martin Brown@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 10:16:45
    On 19/07/2026 17:34, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 1:45 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    From:
    ÿ https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have
    formed among the stars.
    Date:
    ÿ July 19, 2026
    Source:
    ÿ University of Sydney
    Summary:
    ÿ Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating
    space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    ÿ The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements
    essential to life and produces infrared
    ÿ signals similar to real material found in space.
    ÿ By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how
    organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    ÿ how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those
    ingredients to Earth.

    Asteroid and meteorites get quite hot (or at least their outsides do)
    when they go through the atmosphere on their way down to earth. There's
    not a lot of organic chemistry that would survive that.

    Surprisingly they do survive Earth entry. The outer fused heat damaged
    skin is generally not that thick. They are also not very hot when they
    reach the ground but may disintegrate due to air pressure when they
    reach the thicker atmosphere generating a shower of pebbles.

    One such meteorite shower hit Paris just after their Academy of Sciences
    had declared in a report that "nothing" ever fell from the sky!

    Obviously stony and pure iron ones usually stay together in big lumps.

    Carbonaceous chondrites like the one that fell in the UK during Covid
    end up with an outer hard crust that is well toasty but the innermost
    parts are virtually pristine provided that nobody touches them. This
    wasn't the one I recall but it is in the news now and will do as an example:

    https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/hillsborough-meteorite-space-rock-reveals-alien-brine-chemistry-and-seeds-of-life/211992/

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-york-city-2024-meteorite-amino-acid

    The sun now emits quite a lot of hard ultra violet light and a certain amount higher energy radiation which doesn't make it through the earth's atmopshere.

    The earth seems to have had a molten rock surface early in its career,
    and that wouldn't have been all that receptive either.

    It is still thought that during the early phases of the solar system and
    after the Earth had a mostly solid surface that the seas we now have
    were at least in part a result of cometary bombardment (dirty snowballs)
    and steam/CO2/SO2/N2 escaping from the core by vulcanism.

    It is an interesting area of study, but getting the results down to
    earth may be tricky.

    The balance between the two mechanisms is not clear. Both have certainly played a part. Extreme vulcanism can significantly affect climate, and
    has done in recorded history 1816 Tambora and 1883 Krakatoa.


    --
    Martin Brown


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 14:08:42
    Subject: What I'm designing now (was: A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origin of life)

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> spake the secret code <e1eq5lh8u1rfp1m5m0t7t73v21k5ic53j3@4ax.com> thusly:

    What are you designing now?

    I've got several projects in the works, some of which are "slow burn"
    and some are moving faster:

    - LED blinky light employee name badge for a local Mom & Pop burger
    chain
    - 6805 SBC project to play around with making an 80s 8-bit SBC from
    some parts that were donated:
    <https://github.com/legalizeAdulthood/6805_SBC>
    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have
    started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github
    yet.
    - Tektronix 401x storage tube terminal "printer". The printer for this
    thing was really not what you'd expect. The printer essentially
    puts the terminal into a slave mode and drives the tube's electron
    beam with scanning ramps generated by the printer. The terminal
    would report back a voltage ("target signal") representing the
    charge stored on the tube at the position of the scanning ramps.
    The printer would take this analog signal and use it to print on
    silver halide paper. While the printer units can be found, the
    paper is unobtainium at this point and even if you did find some, it
    would be 40+ years old at this point and likely the active chemicals
    are no longer very responsive. So the idea was to make a circuit
    that pretends it's the printer: start the handshake with the
    terminal to put it in slave mode, generate the scan ramps, digitize
    the return target signal and generate a grayscale image. Many
    vintage compy folks still have these terminals and the idea of
    getting a "hardcopy" of the screen image would be nifty.

    Other projects, too, but they're mostly of the repair, refurbish, or reverse-engineer variety for vintage computing gear.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 14:14:08
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> spake the secret code <113kcnk$v32v$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    He is too stupid to see the opportunity to design the high voltage stuff
    for it.
    Electronics is not a subject into itself
    it is always about applications.
    Peepholes like him will never be able to solve problems with electronics.
    And he never did!
    And likely never will!
    Beep

    So the electronics angle was so obvious that you forgot to mention it
    until after someone asked, and even then the answer was "high voltage
    stuff" waved around like a dead flashlight.

    Brilliant. Truly the design insight of the age.

    What high voltage stuff, Jan? Supply topology? Regulation? Arc control? Current limit? Electrode geometry? Insulation? Leakage? Vacuum feedthroughs? Measurement front end? Noise rejection? Safety interlock? Failure mode? Anything that might be recognized by adult mammals as an electronics design topic?

    No. You pasted a press release, got asked what it had to do with sci.electronics.design, and then retrofitted "high voltage" onto it after
    the fact, the way a child tapes cardboard fins to a shoe box and announces
    that it was always a spacecraft.

    "Electronics is always about applications" is not a magic spell that turns every ScienceDaily headline into an on-topic design discussion. By that standard, recipes are electronics because ovens have thermostats, astronomy
    is electronics because telescopes have sensors, and your newsreader dribble
    is electronics because somewhere, tragically, a keyboard was involved.

    The issue is not that applications are irrelevant. The issue is that you
    did not discuss one. You did not ask a design question. You did not
    identify a circuit problem. You did not bring a schematic, parameter, measurement, constraint, or tradeoff. You brought cargo-cult headline
    paste and then called everyone else stupid when the little offering bowl
    did not fill with applause.

    You are not doing applications engineering. You are doing RSS burlesque.
    You skim a shiny headline, dump it into the group, and then pretend the
    missing technical discussion is everyone else's failure of imagination.

    Beep indeed. That is the noise the truck makes while backing over what is
    left of your point.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 08:05:25
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:11:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life >>>Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.

    Could you with your wisdom elaborate a bit on that?

    You can't shake up a bucket of parts and get a radar. Or digitize
    thermal noise into bytes and get a word processor program.

    The reproduction of a DNA-based cell requires the incredible
    complexity of a DNA-based cell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8CV3droDw

    And copying the DNA strand is just a part of cell reproduction. And
    then there is the absurd complexity encoded in the DNA that makes the
    cell do something as its day job.

    That didn't evolve by incremental trial and error from a mud puddle
    with a few organic compounds mixed in. Nothing works until it all
    works.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 02:02:16
    On 21/07/2026 1:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:11:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.

    Could you with your wisdom elaborate a bit on that?

    You can't shake up a bucket of parts and get a radar. Or digitize
    thermal noise into bytes and get a word processor program.

    The reproduction of a DNA-based cell requires the incredible
    complexity of a DNA-based cell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8CV3droDw

    And copying the DNA strand is just a part of cell reproduction. And
    then there is the absurd complexity encoded in the DNA that makes the
    cell do something as its day job.

    That didn't evolve by incremental trial and error from a mud puddle
    with a few organic compounds mixed in. Nothing works until it all
    works.

    So you are a creationist - or perhaps just too stupid to understand the concept of incremental evolution.

    We've told you more than once that DNA was the second generation
    recording mechanism - there are traces of the original RNA-based scheme around, including a bunch of RNA-based viruses.

    The fact that nobody has yet been able to flesh out the way it might of
    worked says a lot about the complexity of the process, and the
    limitations of the way we've so far tackled the question of how it might
    have worked.

    Richard Dawkin's book does tackle the question directly

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Watchmaker

    and we know that you can't follow his arguments.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 09:14:11
    On 7/20/2026 7:08 AM, Richard wrote:
    I've got several projects in the works, some of which are "slow burn"
    and some are moving faster:

    - LED blinky light employee name badge for a local Mom & Pop burger
    chain

    I've some multicolor "light fixtures" for which I have been developing
    an animation package so I can create "effects" without having to manually determine when each lamp illuminates and with which color. I.e., the
    *tool* is far more effort than the light fixtures themselves (I don't
    even layout PCBs as the fixtures are far too large to make that practical!)

    - 6805 SBC project to play around with making an 80s 8-bit SBC from
    some parts that were donated:
    <https://github.com/legalizeAdulthood/6805_SBC>

    A 64180 would be far more capable -- and a '7180 far more USEFUL!
    (a single chip solution that can actually *do* something nontrivial)

    If you enjoy self-abuse, a 99115 would be more exotic. Or, 43201/02,
    16032, 8x305, etc. I think these "atypical" architectures are
    instructive, especially in light of the bland offerings that have
    come along in the decades since.

    If you really want to LEARN something, throw together a 2900
    chipset and design your own instruction set! Application-specific
    processors were all the rage "way back then" (hunt for a copy of
    "Mick & Brick"). The design effort is more "what is of value
    to you in a CPU" than "how do I wire these things up".

    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have
    started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github
    yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.
    (TI never really seemed to get the hang of "microprocessors").
    The 9918 might be an interesting (though sorely constrained
    in its abilities) as a "display controller" -- with some other CPU
    as host.

    Motogorilla's RGP would have been an interesting device but
    I don't think they ever released production silicon (and I
    have no one to "return" the NDA-released materials to, after
    all these years -- but "Do Not Destroy!" <frown>)

    - Tektronix 401x storage tube terminal "printer". The printer for this
    thing was really not what you'd expect. The printer essentially
    puts the terminal into a slave mode and drives the tube's electron
    beam with scanning ramps generated by the printer. The terminal
    would report back a voltage ("target signal") representing the
    charge stored on the tube at the position of the scanning ramps.
    The printer would take this analog signal and use it to print on
    silver halide paper. While the printer units can be found, the
    paper is unobtainium at this point and even if you did find some, it
    would be 40+ years old at this point and likely the active chemicals
    are no longer very responsive. So the idea was to make a circuit
    that pretends it's the printer: start the handshake with the
    terminal to put it in slave mode, generate the scan ramps, digitize
    the return target signal and generate a grayscale image. Many
    vintage compy folks still have these terminals and the idea of
    getting a "hardcopy" of the screen image would be nifty.

    *That* could have value. Particularly if it presents as a USB
    or network peripheral so it can be more universally accessed.

    Other projects, too, but they're mostly of the repair, refurbish, or reverse-engineer variety for vintage computing gear.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 09:15:57
    On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 02:02:16 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 21/07/2026 1:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:11:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>> wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.

    Could you with your wisdom elaborate a bit on that?

    You can't shake up a bucket of parts and get a radar. Or digitize
    thermal noise into bytes and get a word processor program.

    The reproduction of a DNA-based cell requires the incredible
    complexity of a DNA-based cell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8CV3droDw

    And copying the DNA strand is just a part of cell reproduction. And
    then there is the absurd complexity encoded in the DNA that makes the
    cell do something as its day job.

    That didn't evolve by incremental trial and error from a mud puddle
    with a few organic compounds mixed in. Nothing works until it all
    works.

    So you are a creationist - or perhaps just too stupid to understand the >concept of incremental evolution.

    I don't see how incremental evolution from inorganics can produce live
    cells. When someone shows how it can actually happen in nature, I'll reconsider.

    The "in nature" part is critical. If people create self-reproducing
    life that's simpler than our cells, that would be intelligent design.


    We've told you more than once that DNA was the second generation
    recording mechanism - there are traces of the original RNA-based scheme >around, including a bunch of RNA-based viruses.

    RNA viruses need a DNA-based host to reproduce.


    The fact that nobody has yet been able to flesh out the way it might of >worked says a lot about the complexity of the process, and the
    limitations of the way we've so far tackled the question of how it might >have worked.

    Richard Dawkin's book does tackle the question directly

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Watchmaker

    and we know that you can't follow his arguments.

    I've read that one. It's wordy. And hand-wavy.

    He admits to being an aggressive atheist, so shys away from anything
    that could even hint at creationism. So he can't think.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 02:23:24
    On 20/07/2026 7:16 pm, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 19/07/2026 17:34, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 1:45 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    From:
    ÿ https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have
    formed among the stars.
    Date:
    ÿ July 19, 2026
    Source:
    ÿ University of Sydney
    Summary:
    ÿ Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating
    space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    ÿ The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements
    essential to life and produces infrared
    ÿ signals similar to real material found in space.
    ÿ By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how
    organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    ÿ how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those
    ingredients to Earth.

    Asteroid and meteorites get quite hot (or at least their outsides do)
    when they go through the atmosphere on their way down to earth.
    There's not a lot of organic chemistry that would survive that.

    Surprisingly they do survive Earth entry. The outer fused heat damaged
    skin is generally not that thick. They are also not very hot when they
    reach the ground but may disintegrate due to air pressure when they
    reach the thicker atmosphere generating a shower of pebbles.

    One such meteorite shower hit Paris just after their Academy of Sciences
    had declared in a report that "nothing" ever fell from the sky!

    Obviously stony and pure iron ones usually stay together in big lumps.

    Carbonaceous chondrites like the one that fell in the UK during Covid
    end up with an outer hard crust that is well toasty but the innermost
    parts are virtually pristine provided that nobody touches them. This
    wasn't the one I recall but it is in the news now and will do as an
    example:

    https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/hillsborough-meteorite-space-rock-reveals-alien-brine-chemistry-and-seeds-of-life/211992/

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-york-city-2024-meteorite-amino-acid

    The sun now emits quite a lot of hard ultra violet light and a certain
    amount higher energy radiation which doesn't make it through the
    earth's atmopshere.

    The earth seems to have had a molten rock surface early in its career,
    and that wouldn't have been all that receptive either.

    It is still thought that during the early phases of the solar system and after the Earth had a mostly solid surface that the seas we now have
    were at least in part a result of cometary bombardment (dirty snowballs)
    and steam/CO2/SO2/N2 escaping from the core by vulcanism.

    I refer you to New Scientist, 11th July 2026, page 11.

    " Traces of earth's primordial magna ocean spotted in lava".

    The text makes it clear that it wasn't actually primordial, but rather a transient consequence of the early collision with a Mars-sized object
    that left us with our remarkably large moon.

    So the surface probably did get sterilised at least once.

    It is an interesting area of study, but getting the results down to
    earth may be tricky.

    The balance between the two mechanisms is not clear. Both have certainly played a part. Extreme vulcanism can significantly affect climate, and
    has done in recorded history 1816 Tambora and 1883 Krakatoa.

    Getting hit by a Mars-sized object produces effects that rather
    overshadow "extreme vulcanism".

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Sloman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 04:11:36
    On 21/07/2026 2:15 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 02:02:16 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 21/07/2026 1:05 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:11:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life
    Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.

    Could you with your wisdom elaborate a bit on that?

    You can't shake up a bucket of parts and get a radar. Or digitize
    thermal noise into bytes and get a word processor program.

    The reproduction of a DNA-based cell requires the incredible
    complexity of a DNA-based cell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8CV3droDw

    And copying the DNA strand is just a part of cell reproduction. And
    then there is the absurd complexity encoded in the DNA that makes the
    cell do something as its day job.

    That didn't evolve by incremental trial and error from a mud puddle
    with a few organic compounds mixed in. Nothing works until it all
    works.

    So you are a creationist - or perhaps just too stupid to understand the
    concept of incremental evolution.

    I don't see how incremental evolution from inorganics can produce live
    cells. When someone shows how it can actually happen in nature, I'll reconsider.

    There are a lot of things you can't see, and showing you how might
    happen in nature would take a lot more effort than it would for somebody
    who was a quicker study.

    The "in nature" part is critical. If people create self-reproducing
    life that's simpler than our cells, that would be intelligent design.

    Very intelligent design. People have been working on that for a while now.

    They made a sort of synthetic cell back in 2016 with 473 genes, but they didn't know what a third of those genes were doing. The University of Minnesota has recently made a SpudCell with just 36 genes, but it fails
    after about five divisions.

    We've told you more than once that DNA was the second generation
    recording mechanism - there are traces of the original RNA-based scheme
    around, including a bunch of RNA-based viruses.

    RNA viruses need a DNA-based host to reproduce.

    They do now. That might make them traces of an earlier scheme surviving
    in a parasitic niche.

    The fact that nobody has yet been able to flesh out the way it might of
    worked says a lot about the complexity of the process, and the
    limitations of the way we've so far tackled the question of how it might
    have worked.

    Richard Dawkin's book does tackle the question directly

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Watchmaker

    and we know that you can't follow his arguments.

    I've read that one. It's wordy. And hand-wavy.

    That wasn't the way it struck me, or whole lot of other people whose
    opinions carry more weight than yours (or mine).

    He admits to being an aggressive atheist, so shys away from anything
    that could even hint at creationism. So he can't think.

    One reviewer said "However, readers with little background in science
    may need patience." You've got very little background in science and no patience at all.

    Creationism isn't a explanation - it's just a cop-out. His attitude to organised religion may make him express that point of view more
    aggressively than is strictly necessary, but any scientific explanation
    isn't going to include "God did it", because "God" is undefined.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 18:15:58
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113lhgk$1agv7$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    On 7/20/2026 7:08 AM, Richard wrote:
    I've got several projects in the works, some of which are "slow burn"
    and some are moving faster:

    - LED blinky light employee name badge for a local Mom & Pop burger
    chain

    I've some multicolor "light fixtures" for which I have been developing
    an animation package so I can create "effects" without having to manually >determine when each lamp illuminates and with which color. I.e., the
    *tool* is far more effort than the light fixtures themselves (I don't
    even layout PCBs as the fixtures are far too large to make that practical!)

    In my case, I'm trying to keep the parts BOM as small as possible and
    the design as simple as possible to keep the price per badge down.

    - 6805 SBC project to play around with making an 80s 8-bit SBC from
    some parts that were donated:
    <https://github.com/legalizeAdulthood/6805_SBC>

    A 64180 would be far more capable [...]

    As I stated, the point is to use the parts I have, not make the "best"
    SBC one could make.

    If you really want to LEARN something, throw together a 2900
    chipset and design your own instruction set!

    Already did that in college.

    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have
    started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github
    yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.
    Being familiar with this chip got me a job offer with Evans &
    Sutherland in the 90s.

    Motogorilla's RGP would have been an interesting device [...]

    Maybe, but again, I'm not asking for different alternatives to what
    I'm already working with. I was asked what I'm designing and I posted
    a list.

    - Tektronix 401x storage tube terminal "printer". [...]

    *That* could have value.

    Everything I've listed has value to me, which is all that matters.

    Some other people in the vintage compy community would likely have
    interest in the 401x dongle. A couple other people have already
    expressed interest in the 6805 SBC.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 20:15:56
    On 7/20/26 18:15, john larkin wrote:
    [...]
    He admits to being an aggressive atheist, so shys away from anything
    that could even hint at creationism. So he can't think.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    We'd guesses as much, but there it is stated clearly at last.

    Where did the creator come from?

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JM@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 19:44:52
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:15:56 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    Where did the creator come from?

    42

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 11:51:36
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:15:56 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 7/20/26 18:15, john larkin wrote:
    [...]
    He admits to being an aggressive atheist, so shys away from anything
    that could even hint at creationism. So he can't think.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    We'd guesses as much, but there it is stated clearly at last.

    Where did the creator come from?

    Jeroen Belleman

    One theory (mine) is that life did evolve incrementally somewhere in
    the universe billions of years ago, got to be very smart, and designed
    us carbon-based life as a practical joke or a high school science
    project. [1]

    What I can't understand is that if the little green men are smart
    enough to have interstellar flight, why do their flying saucers crash
    so often?

    [1] Speaking of class projects, we're planning to fund a team capstone
    project at a California university. When I was at Tulane, we did
    individual senior projects, due at end of term. Mine took about 6
    hours total. Now folks form up teams early in their senior year.
    Sounds like fun.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 12:24:19
    On 7/20/2026 11:15 AM, Richard wrote:

    - 6805 SBC project to play around with making an 80s 8-bit SBC from
    some parts that were donated:
    <https://github.com/legalizeAdulthood/6805_SBC>

    A 64180 would be far more capable [...]

    As I stated, the point is to use the parts I have, not make the "best"
    SBC one could make.

    A 64180 wouldn't be the "best"; it would just be considerably more
    "useful" (i.e., applicable to real-world problems). The '7180 lets
    you create real products in a single chip (of complexity comparable to
    a 6805-based design).

    If you really want to LEARN something, throw together a 2900
    chipset and design your own instruction set!

    Already did that in college.

    But, did you just create a same-ol', same-ol' instruction set?
    Or, did you explore different approaches to putting "utility"
    into the set of operations supported? E.g., I was heavily into
    graphics so had opcodes to draw line, a blitter, etc.

    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have
    started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github
    yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.

    Yes, I used the '010 in the design of a video slot machine many
    decades ago.

    Being familiar with this chip got me a job offer with Evans &
    Sutherland in the 90s.

    Motogorilla's RGP would have been an interesting device [...]

    Maybe, but again, I'm not asking for different alternatives to what
    I'm already working with. I was asked what I'm designing and I posted
    a list.

    - Tektronix 401x storage tube terminal "printer". [...]

    *That* could have value.

    Everything I've listed has value to me, which is all that matters.

    Fair 'nuf. To me, value comes from creating something that
    doesn't already exist. Otherwise, you're just spinning your
    wheels making something that you could likely *buy*.

    E.g., my current design emulates (in software) many *hardware*
    features of (really) old CPUs -- like the 5500. And, given how
    much faster devices are, today, they can almost approximate the
    equivalent performance (without having to resort to VHDL to
    reify the design)!
    Some other people in the vintage compy community would likely have
    interest in the 401x dongle. A couple other people have already
    expressed interest in the 6805 SBC.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From JM@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 20:38:12
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:14:08 -0000 (UTC),
    legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) wrote:

    Bollocks snipped

    Whoop-de-sodding-doo to you!

    Jan has every right to post whatever he wants whenever he wants.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 22:19:54
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113lsl5$1ed5q$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    On 7/20/2026 11:15 AM, Richard wrote:

    - 6805 SBC project to play around with making an 80s 8-bit SBC from
    some parts that were donated:
    <https://github.com/legalizeAdulthood/6805_SBC>

    A 64180 would be far more capable [...]

    As I stated, the point is to use the parts I have, not make the "best"
    SBC one could make.

    A 64180 wouldn't be the "best" [...]

    At the risk of repeating myself once more, the point is to make
    something with the pile of parts I was gifted and learn something
    about SBC design along the way. The 8K address space makes for some interesting ROM challenges in order to make a system that is not built
    for a specific microcontroller problem. The funky gaps in the memory
    map into which you can add your own peripherals made for some fun
    address decoder practice. See the repository for deets.

    If you really want to LEARN something, throw together a 2900
    chipset and design your own instruction set!

    Already did that in college.

    But, did you just create a same-ol', same-ol' instruction set?

    It was 40 years ago, TBH I don't remember the detailts, but it was a
    generic CPU. I'm pretty sure it was straight from Mick & Brick and
    didn't deviate from one of the designs presented there. Honestly, the
    UDel EE department at the time was pretty crappy at teaching any
    useful digital design beyond a simple state machine for a traffic
    light controller. When I went to UofU for CS as a grad student I
    discovered that undergrad CS students did more digital design in a one
    year course than I did during 4 years at UDel. Kurt Akeley was like
    one or two years ahead of me, but I never interacted with him at that
    time. I learned more about practical digital design by assisting John
    Kelly on his PhD graphics processor. I wire wrapped something like
    6,000 wires.

    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have
    started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github
    yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.

    Yes, I used the '010 in the design of a video slot machine many
    decades ago.

    The designer of the chip recently gave a talk on it: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8IBG5NaRw4>

    Everything I've listed has value to me, which is all that matters.

    Fair 'nuf. To me, value comes from creating something that
    doesn't already exist. Otherwise, you're just spinning your
    wheels making something that you could likely *buy*.

    There are two types of value I am getting out of these projects:
    - actually building *something*
    - having fun building them

    I was subscribing to the AdaFruit AdaBoxes for a while but they aren't
    very interesting because you don't *build* anything. You connect
    prefabricated modules with cables and load firmware. The HackerBoxes
    still actually require you to solder stuff, even if you're not
    designing boards/circuits from scratch. Sure, they use a bunch of
    modules with microcontrollers and you load firmware into them, but
    they are less oriented as a complete thing than as a platform into
    which you can experiment. Plus HackerBoxes has managed to deliver a
    monthly project on time for multiple years, whereas AdaBox flaked out
    and took like a 6 yr break between the last one I got for my
    "subscription" and the next one that came out.

    E.g., my current design emulates (in software) many *hardware*
    features of (really) old CPUs -- like the 5500. And, given how
    much faster devices are, today, they can almost approximate the
    equivalent performance (without having to resort to VHDL to
    reify the design)!

    Pi Pico projects are fun that way and I've done a little fiddling
    around with them, but nothing serious yet. The 401x printer dongle
    thingy will like be a Pico with some analog ramp circuitry attached.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Monday, July 20, 2026 20:54:00
    On 7/20/2026 3:19 PM, Richard wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113lsl5$1ed5q$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    As I stated, the point is to use the parts I have, not make the "best"
    SBC one could make.

    A 64180 wouldn't be the "best" [...]

    At the risk of repeating myself once more, the point is to make
    something with the pile of parts I was gifted and learn something
    about SBC design along the way. The 8K address space makes for some interesting ROM challenges in order to make a system that is not built
    for a specific microcontroller problem. The funky gaps in the memory
    map into which you can add your own peripherals made for some fun
    address decoder practice. See the repository for deets.

    Suit yourself. If I'm going to invest time in a project, I want something
    that I can *use* from it. Otherwise, spend the time reading a book...

    E.g., I am currently hoping the local maker house gets a waterjet or
    plasma CNC so I can use *it* to cut the copper sheeting I will be
    using in my "light fixtures". I have no desire to purchase one
    and paying someone else doesn't benefit anyone -- as it would the
    maker house (it would also likely drum up some interest due to its
    scale)

    If you really want to LEARN something, throw together a 2900
    chipset and design your own instruction set!

    Already did that in college.

    But, did you just create a same-ol', same-ol' instruction set?

    It was 40 years ago, TBH I don't remember the detailts, but it was a
    generic CPU. I'm pretty sure it was straight from Mick & Brick and
    didn't deviate from one of the designs presented there. Honestly, the
    UDel EE department at the time was pretty crappy at teaching any
    useful digital design beyond a simple state machine for a traffic
    light controller. When I went to UofU for CS as a grad student I
    discovered that undergrad CS students did more digital design in a one
    year course than I did during 4 years at UDel. Kurt Akeley was like
    one or two years ahead of me, but I never interacted with him at that
    time. I learned more about practical digital design by assisting John
    Kelly on his PhD graphics processor. I wire wrapped something like
    6,000 wires.

    The advantage of tailoring a processor to a specific application
    comes from the performance benefits that accrue. E.g., having to write subroutines/functions to provide the same sort of capability makes
    it abundantly clear how inefficient the COTS solutions are for these
    tasks. That's why we have graphics accelerators, crypto coprocessors,
    etc. -- it's not that you *can't* perform those actions on a generic
    processor but that they are horribly inefficient when done thusly.

    E.g., having a blitter in hardware means the processor doesn't
    waste its time converting linear addresses to rectangular (as
    well as all of the opcode fetches involved in doing so -- just
    move the data directly!)

    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have >>>>> started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github >>>>> yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.

    Yes, I used the '010 in the design of a video slot machine many
    decades ago.

    The designer of the chip recently gave a talk on it: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8IBG5NaRw4>

    I met Karl in the early 80's when he was pitching the 99K to us.
    He had a very different idea of how the technology should be
    applied (and, given that we were making lots of *product*,
    I had more faith in our understanding of the problem than his).

    [Though the 99K was an interesting design -- but badly misjudged the
    available memory bandwidth that would follow; once you go out to a pad
    driver, you're screwed for performance]

    Everything I've listed has value to me, which is all that matters.

    Fair 'nuf. To me, value comes from creating something that
    doesn't already exist. Otherwise, you're just spinning your
    wheels making something that you could likely *buy*.

    There are two types of value I am getting out of these projects:
    - actually building *something*
    - having fun building them

    I was subscribing to the AdaFruit AdaBoxes for a while but they aren't
    very interesting because you don't *build* anything. You connect

    Exactly. Slap together things that someone else designed (and MADE!)
    and pat yourself on the back for your accomplishment.

    There is (was) a TV commercial where two kids are spying on their
    mom in the kitchen: "She's BAKING!!!!!", excitedly.

    No, she's taking a refrigerated, oversized cookie and HEATING IT UP.

    prefabricated modules with cables and load firmware. The HackerBoxes
    still actually require you to solder stuff, even if you're not
    designing boards/circuits from scratch. Sure, they use a bunch of
    modules with microcontrollers and you load firmware into them, but
    they are less oriented as a complete thing than as a platform into
    which you can experiment. Plus HackerBoxes has managed to deliver a
    monthly project on time for multiple years, whereas AdaBox flaked out
    and took like a 6 yr break between the last one I got for my
    "subscription" and the next one that came out.

    It is not easy to come up with ideas for projects that others
    would LIKE to make -- let alone document them in enough detail
    for them to do so! My arrangement with my colleagues is that
    they can "steal" whatever I've done but don't expect me to
    redirect my attentions to make your life much easier (if you
    want a finished product, wait until it is FINISHED!)

    E.g., my current design emulates (in software) many *hardware*
    features of (really) old CPUs -- like the 5500. And, given how
    much faster devices are, today, they can almost approximate the
    equivalent performance (without having to resort to VHDL to
    reify the design)!

    Pi Pico projects are fun that way and I've done a little fiddling
    around with them, but nothing serious yet. The 401x printer dongle
    thingy will like be a Pico with some analog ramp circuitry attached.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jan Panteltje@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 06:06:52
    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 05:11:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jul 2026 15:45:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:

    From:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260718010156.htm

    A tiny universe in a bottle reveals clues to the origins of life >>>>Scientists recreated cosmic dust in a bottle,
    offering a new glimpse into how the ingredients for life may have formed among the stars.
    Date:
    July 19, 2026
    Source:
    University of Sydney
    Summary:
    Researchers have created cosmic dust from scratch by recreating space-like conditions inside glass tubes.
    The dust contains complex carbon-rich molecules built from elements essential to life and produces infrared
    signals similar to real material found in space.
    By studying these laboratory samples, scientists can explore how organic chemistry unfolds around stars and
    how comets, asteroids and meteorites may have carried those ingredients to Earth.

    The mystery of life isn't ingredients, it's structure.

    Could you with your wisdom elaborate a bit on that?

    You can't shake up a bucket of parts and get a radar. Or digitize
    thermal noise into bytes and get a word processor program.

    The reproduction of a DNA-based cell requires the incredible
    complexity of a DNA-based cell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8CV3droDw

    And copying the DNA strand is just a part of cell reproduction. And
    then there is the absurd complexity encoded in the DNA that makes the
    cell do something as its day job.

    That didn't evolve by incremental trial and error from a mud puddle
    with a few organic compounds mixed in. Nothing works until it all
    works.

    So then, how did the periodic table form?

    And then all the combination elements always interacting,
    finally some formed structures that remained stable ('alive' if you will) and copied themselves.
    The ones that were best at surviving the 'surroundings' got more complex over time
    and there we are.
    How could a bunch of cells like we design a TV or reach the Moon?

    Darwin was right.

    No trump or Adam and Eve needed

    And extremely likely happening everywhere is 'space' 'life'
    Denying it ? He who does not want to see is effectively blind.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jan Panteltje@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 06:11:42
    legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard)wrote:
    Beep indeed. That is the noise the truck makes while backing over what is

    not one word of tronics in your reply
    New here? Start learning

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 15:56:06
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> spake the secret code <113n2iv$1oomr$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    not one word of tronics in your reply
    New here? Start learning

    The low-wattage poster's standard move is now visible from orbit: paste
    an off-topic press release, invent the missing electronics angle only
    after being asked, fail to trim quoted sludge, reply with "beep" and
    "start learning," and then pretend the problem is everyone else's
    technical incompetence rather than his own inability to form a design
    question. This is not sci.electronics.design; it is headline composting
    by a man who thinks "tronics" is a subject keyword and that random lab equipment becomes on-topic if he squints hard enough at the power cord.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 16:00:07
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113lsl5$1ed5q$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    On 7/20/2026 11:15 AM, Richard wrote:
    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have
    started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github
    yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.

    Yes, I used the '010 in the design of a video slot machine many
    decades ago.

    Seeing as how you have design experience with these chips, I'd be
    curious to hear your thoughts on the best way to attach them to a
    frame buffer capable of 1080p double buffered 32-bit/pixel. Putzing
    around with AI suggested that I use 1Mbyte VRAMs, if I could find
    them. The alternative to actual NOS VRAMs was to use modern memory
    with an FPGA front end to the 340x0 pretending to be VRAM.

    Thoughts?
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From john larkin@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 09:06:30
    On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 15:56:06 -0000 (UTC),
    legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) wrote:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> spake the secret code ><113n2iv$1oomr$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    not one word of tronics in your reply
    New here? Start learning

    The low-wattage poster's standard move is now visible from orbit: paste
    an off-topic press release, invent the missing electronics angle only
    after being asked, fail to trim quoted sludge, reply with "beep" and
    "start learning," and then pretend the problem is everyone else's
    technical incompetence rather than his own inability to form a design >question. This is not sci.electronics.design; it is headline composting
    by a man who thinks "tronics" is a subject keyword and that random lab >equipment becomes on-topic if he squints hard enough at the power cord.

    Children! Behave yourselves.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jan Panteltje@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 17:05:54
    legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard)wrote:
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> spake the secret code ><113n2iv$1oomr$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    not one word of tronics in your reply
    New here? Start learning

    The low-wattage poster's standard move is now visible from orbit: paste
    an off-topic press release, invent the missing electronics angle only
    after being asked, fail to trim quoted sludge, reply with "beep" and
    "start learning," and then pretend the problem is everyone else's
    technical incompetence rather than his own inability to form a design >question. This is not sci.electronics.design; it is headline composting
    by a man who thinks "tronics" is a subject keyword and that random lab >equipment becomes on-topic if he squints hard enough at the power cord.

    Was trump or Elon so pissed with what I wrote that he assigned you to this group?
    Are you human? The shit you utter makes me think you are Elon's AI

    His last launch failed...
    Not even all the engines came on.
    https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-flight-13-reason-why-aborted/

    Loser



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2026 22:25:33
    On 7/21/2026 9:00 AM, Richard wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113lsl5$1ed5q$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    On 7/20/2026 11:15 AM, Richard wrote:
    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have >>>>> started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github >>>>> yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.

    Yes, I used the '010 in the design of a video slot machine many
    decades ago.

    Seeing as how you have design experience with these chips, I'd be
    curious to hear your thoughts on the best way to attach them to a
    frame buffer capable of 1080p double buffered 32-bit/pixel.

    Do you *really* want 4 billion different color/intensity combinations
    per pel? That means moving aa lot of data (over a fixed bandwidth
    bus) if you want on-screen motion or effects.

    "Back in the day", 4b/pel was typically used and razzle-dazzle was
    created by strategically manipulating the CLUT -- let what the
    data *represents* be changed instead of the data itself. E.g.,
    a set of chase lights on a marquee don't physically move -- yet
    give the appearance of doing so!

    At 1080p, you're looking at ~2M pels per frame; doubled if you want
    it buffered. To repaint the screen (the "buffer") at a 60Hz frame
    rate, you have to process 120Mpels/second. And, *think* about how you
    want to process them (not just paint them into the display).

    At 30Hz, half that.

    What was usually done was smaller pel representations (less data per pel)
    and knowledge of where the frame buffer display update was currently referencing memory. E.g., let the display controller tell you when the *bottom* half of the frame buffer is being displayed so you can freely manipulate the contents of the *top* half of the frame buffer, without
    worrying about visual artifacts. And, similarly for the top half.

    In a video game, slot machine, etc. this is relatively easy to do
    as you know (and can PREDICT) the general contents of the display
    going forward. With full motion video, there are few such
    optimizations that can be exploited -- the entire content can
    change from one frame to the next (so, you have to be able to repaint
    "the whole screen", which usually leads to compromises as to how you
    define that screen!)

    Putzing
    around with AI suggested that I use 1Mbyte VRAMs, if I could find
    them. The alternative to actual NOS VRAMs was to use modern memory
    with an FPGA front end to the 340x0 pretending to be VRAM.

    We just used 64Kx1 DRAMS with home grown memory controllers (e.g.,
    muxilpeckers to do the RAS/CAS addressing and a bit of junk logic to
    sequence the controls into the array). Fitting the memory controller
    to the processor in a manner that did not interfere with display
    refresh *but* also didn't wait-state the CPU was the typical
    challenge (some processors make it easy to share memory; others
    are tedious and the arbiter requires more careful consideration)

    Using modern memory (SDRAMs) would be a bit of a design effort
    as the controller isn't quite as trivial.

    Thoughts?

    Consider how you will *program* it. "Back then", there was no real
    choice but ASM. So, development was expensive and time consuming.
    We typically built our own debugging tools fitted to our own
    design technologies to provide hooks into the running system
    (ICEs are expensive -- especially if you need one per developer.
    Even moreso if you have to SHARE one!)

    Figure out what you want to *do* with it. E.g., when designing the
    9918, TI came to the conclusion that sprites could be small (8x8
    or 16x16), and never more than 4 on a given scanline.

    In a video game, these are unfounded assumptions; adapting the
    gameplay to the limitations of the hardware would have been silly.
    And, adapting the implementation to TOLERATE the hardware limitations
    would likely negate the value of having sprite support in hardware!

    Understand my disdain for TI's solutions?

    By contrast, I designed a "sprite processor" that allowed for sprites
    of any dimension (defined in the sprite's-specific definition) and
    color mapping -- along with trivial rotations and reflections to
    economize on the amount of memory (remember, we're talking kilobytes
    not megabytes) used to store sprite descriptions -- to be created
    and exist anywhere on the screen at any time.

    I could conditionally do sprite collision detection on specified sprites
    (i.e., did this bullet -- which is only a specific portion of THIS
    sprite defintion, not the whole sprite itself! -- hit anything?) as well
    as order sprites within the field ("in front of" vs. "behind"). *My* limitation was the bandwidth of the frame buffer interface that determined
    the overall limitations imposed on the game -- something that is much
    easier to address in a design than "what if 5 sprites want to exist on
    the same scan line???"

    (I had a lot of fun coming up with special processors tailored to
    the needs of their applications. COTS offerings have to assume
    a more generic/universal deployment which limits the tricks they
    can employ)

    PC hardware and GPUs have spoiled developers by hiding all of these
    issues behind their magic. But, this comes at the cost of more
    complex hardware designs. (we were building in quantities of thousands,
    not millions!)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, July 22, 2026 14:52:00
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113pk8f$2k0tb$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    On 7/21/2026 9:00 AM, Richard wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code
    <113lsl5$1ed5q$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    On 7/20/2026 11:15 AM, Richard wrote:
    - TI TMS34020 SBC. I always wanted to build a a graphics system
    around this chip; I picked up some "new old stock" parts and have >>>>>> started designing a bring up board. Nothing captured into github >>>>>> yet.

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.

    Yes, I used the '010 in the design of a video slot machine many
    decades ago.

    Seeing as how you have design experience with these chips, I'd be
    curious to hear your thoughts on the best way to attach them to a
    frame buffer capable of 1080p double buffered 32-bit/pixel.

    Do you *really* want 4 billion different color/intensity combinations
    per pel?

    340x0 can do 16 and 32-bit/pixel, but not 24. 24-bit RGB with 8-bit
    alpha is not unreasonable. A 3D system needs a Z buffer as well, so
    add another 16 or 32-bits per pixel. The ESV workstation (comparable
    custom hardware from the same period) had 88 bits of frame buffer:

    - 24-bit RGB double buffered
    - 32-bit Z buffer
    - 8-bit window id for fast clear

    For best color gamut representation, 8-bits per channel isn't even
    enough, you really want at least 10-bits per channel. The ARS
    (Advanced Rendering System, another period E&S device) hardware did
    this to get full fidelity gamma corrected 8-bits output per channel.

    That means moving aa lot of data (over a fixed bandwidth
    bus) if you want on-screen motion or effects.

    Agreed. Hence double buffered.

    "Back in the day", 4b/pel was typically used [...]

    Yes, but I want truecolor rendering, not indexed color rendering.

    It's my understanding that you can reconfigure the video modes in the
    340x0 so that you can use indexed or 16-bit 5/6/5 RGB organization
    if you want other video modes/resolutions. However, maximum
    resolution and color depth is determined by how much memory you hang
    off the system.

    What was usually done was smaller pel representations [...]

    Yes, I know.

    But we're not really getting at an answer to my question, you're
    talking about what other people did back then.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, July 22, 2026 08:41:35
    On 7/22/2026 7:52 AM, Richard wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113pk8f$2k0tb$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    If it is anything like the '010, you may regret the effort.

    Many arcade machines and high end PC graphics cards used this chip.

    Yes, I used the '010 in the design of a video slot machine many
    decades ago.

    Seeing as how you have design experience with these chips, I'd be
    curious to hear your thoughts on the best way to attach them to a
    frame buffer capable of 1080p double buffered 32-bit/pixel.

    Do you *really* want 4 billion different color/intensity combinations
    per pel?

    340x0 can do 16 and 32-bit/pixel, but not 24. 24-bit RGB with 8-bit
    alpha is not unreasonable. A 3D system needs a Z buffer as well, so
    add another 16 or 32-bits per pixel. The ESV workstation (comparable
    custom hardware from the same period) had 88 bits of frame buffer:

    - 24-bit RGB double buffered
    - 32-bit Z buffer
    - 8-bit window id for fast clear

    For best color gamut representation, 8-bits per channel isn't even
    enough, you really want at least 10-bits per channel. The ARS
    (Advanced Rendering System, another period E&S device) hardware did
    this to get full fidelity gamma corrected 8-bits output per channel.

    You've still not indicated your intended use.

    You can create all sorts of extremely high resolution displays.

    Monitors used to display digital X-Rays are insanely detailed
    but aren't used to display MOVIES due to the sheer amount
    of data that must be processed. E.g., this unit:
    <https://www.barco.com/en/product/coronis-onelook-mdmc-32133>
    is 6800x4600@60Hz -- 32Mpel -- at 10b per R/G/B.

    But, you need two people to transport it (80 pounds)
    and could buy a car for what you'd spend on it ($35K).
    That means moving aa lot of data (over a fixed bandwidth
    bus) if you want on-screen motion or effects.

    Agreed. Hence double buffered.

    You still have to be able to fill one plane in the time it takes
    to display the other. It's a bandwidth question. If you're
    emulating spinning reels of a slot machine, most of the display
    image is static (or simple CLUT effects). So, a CPU in the display
    controller (e.g., 34010) can actually repaint the display CONTENT
    as fast as it is being displayed. Especially if the content can
    be predicted (like the next section of a simulated "reel" rolling
    past a display window).

    If, OTOH, you want to do full motion video where the entire display is repainted at frame rate, then you need a pipe that is wide enough
    AND a CPU that can generate that "new data" at the corresponding rate.

    There are reasons video games had static backgrounds, few active colors,
    etc. -- every capability you rely on adds to cost. (the software folks
    would BEG for a 2 (two!) MHz version of the hardware but the cost increase
    was never sufficient to justify such a move -- everything has to be twice
    as fast!!)

    If you want 2026 capabilities, then use 2026 hardware (and software).

    "Back in the day", 4b/pel was typically used [...]

    Yes, but I want truecolor rendering, not indexed color rendering.

    Then something has to give. I don't believe you can *move* 120MB/sec
    with a 34010, let alone *synthesize* that imagery at the same time.

    It's my understanding that you can reconfigure the video modes in the
    340x0 so that you can use indexed or 16-bit 5/6/5 RGB organization
    if you want other video modes/resolutions. However, maximum
    resolution and color depth is determined by how much memory you hang
    off the system.

    What was usually done was smaller pel representations [...]

    Yes, I know.

    But we're not really getting at an answer to my question, you're
    talking about what other people did back then.

    There's no way to relate to what you are asking without knowing
    your intentions and constraints you are willing to impose on
    your design and application.

    If I gifted you one of the aforementioned monitors, it would
    be a fancy paperweight -- no way to drive it and nothing to
    *need* the capabilities it provides.

    If you can drive a 1080x1920 display but can't alter the
    contents of the frames at a meaningful rate (for whatever
    application you intend), then you've got a similar paperweight.

    [I've passed up several similar devices, over the years, being
    "mature" enough to realize possessing something "cool" is hardly
    a reason to have said item if no use can be made of it.]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, July 23, 2026 14:06:23
    Never mind; I've found a better way to explore the design space.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, July 23, 2026 11:22:19
    On 7/23/2026 7:06 AM, Richard wrote:
    Never mind; I've found a better way to explore the design space.

    You're clearly going to need more horsepower if you intend
    that level of resolution and color depth in the frame buffer.
    Recall, TIGA was really only good on PCs for CAD/EDA type
    work -- largely static.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard@3:633/10 to All on Friday, July 24, 2026 14:16:31
    Oops, you did ask one important question that I didn't answer.

    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113qobh$31b0i$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    You've still not indicated your intended use.

    A hardware accelerated implementation of PHIGS-PLUS, which basically
    means 3D with lighting, depth cueuing and Gouraud shading. Also,
    basically OpenGL 1.x with no texturing.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don Y@3:633/10 to All on Friday, July 24, 2026 07:54:58
    On 7/24/2026 7:16 AM, Richard wrote:
    Oops, you did ask one important question that I didn't answer.

    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> spake the secret code <113qobh$31b0i$1@dont-email.me> thusly:

    You've still not indicated your intended use.

    A hardware accelerated implementation of PHIGS-PLUS, which basically
    means 3D with lighting, depth cueuing and Gouraud shading. Also,
    basically OpenGL 1.x with no texturing.

    As I said, you're going to need more horsepower.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)