• Madrid ATP1000: Jodar beats Fonseca!

    From Kalevi Kolttonen@3:633/10 to All on Sunday, April 26, 2026 23:16:21
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scall5@3:633/10 to All on Monday, April 27, 2026 17:36:44
    On 4/26/2026 6:16 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    I was surprised that Ruud won so easily. His next match is Tsitsipas...
    --
    ---------------
    Scall5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sawfish@3:633/10 to All on Monday, April 27, 2026 17:10:46
    On 4/27/26 3:36 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/26/2026 6:16 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    I was surprised that Ruud won so easily. His next match is Tsitsipas...

    Tsitsipas is a sad case.

    Ruud can look very good or very bad. It seems like it is not game by
    game, but much large cyclical oscillations.

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "...and your little dog, too!"
    --Sawfish

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Kalevi Kolttonen@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, April 28, 2026 17:14:21
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/27/26 3:36 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/26/2026 6:16 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    I was surprised that Ruud won so easily. His next match is Tsitsipas...

    Tsitsipas is a sad case.

    Ruud can look very good or very bad. It seems like it is not game by
    game, but much large cyclical oscillations.

    Ruud just beat Tsitsipas, but it was extremely close, three
    tie-break sets.

    Rafa Jodar beat Vit Kopriva to advance to the quarterfinals.
    He will face Jannik Sinner. That is a match I want to see.

    br,
    KK

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sawfish@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, April 28, 2026 11:59:50
    On 4/28/26 10:14 AM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/27/26 3:36 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/26/2026 6:16 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    I was surprised that Ruud won so easily. His next match is Tsitsipas...

    Tsitsipas is a sad case.

    Ruud can look very good or very bad. It seems like it is not game by
    game, but much large cyclical oscillations.

    Ruud just beat Tsitsipas, but it was extremely close, three
    tie-break sets.

    I can see that as likely, sometimes.

    Rafa Jodar beat Vit Kopriva to advance to the quarterfinals.
    He will face Jannik Sinner. That is a match I want to see.

    I saw Jodar beat Fonseca and it was my opinion that Fonseca crapped out
    enough for Jodar to beat him.

    Jodar looks a shade slow, somehow.


    br,
    KK


    --
    --Sawfish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "If there's one thing I can't stand, it's intolerance." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Kalevi Kolttonen@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, April 28, 2026 19:01:03
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> wrote:
    I saw Jodar beat Fonseca and it was my opinion that Fonseca crapped out enough for Jodar to beat him.

    Jodar looks a shade slow, somehow.

    I just cannot say, but, well 6-1 third set says something.

    Of course Sinner is the big favourite to beat Jodar.

    br,
    KK

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scall5@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, April 28, 2026 21:24:46
    On 4/28/2026 12:14 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/27/26 3:36 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/26/2026 6:16 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    I was surprised that Ruud won so easily. His next match is Tsitsipas...

    Tsitsipas is a sad case.

    Ruud can look very good or very bad. It seems like it is not game by
    game, but much large cyclical oscillations.

    Ruud just beat Tsitsipas, but it was extremely close, three
    tie-break sets.

    I wish I could have seen it, but due to work and evening playoff hockey,
    I won't be able to.

    Tsitsipas needs to understand that there is a lot more riding here -
    it's *not* about him getting grade-A pussy, but he leading the gallant one-handed backhand to more slam titles...

    Rafa Jodar beat Vit Kopriva to advance to the quarterfinals.
    He will face Jannik Sinner. That is a match I want to see.

    br,
    KK

    Regards,
    --
    ---------------
    Scall5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sawfish@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 29, 2026 07:21:36
    On 4/28/26 7:24 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/28/2026 12:14 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/27/26 3:36 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/26/2026 6:16 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    I was surprised that Ruud won so easily. His next match is Tsitsipas... >>>
    Tsitsipas is a sad case.

    Ruud can look very good or very bad. It seems like it is not game by
    game, but much large cyclical oscillations.

    Ruud just beat Tsitsipas, but it was extremely close, three
    tie-break sets.

    I wish I could have seen it, but due to work and evening playoff hockey,
    I won't be able to.

    Tsitsipas needs to understand that there is a lot more riding here -
    it's *not* about him getting grade-A pussy, but he leading the gallant one-handed backhand to more slam titles...

    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get it
    right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.

    If you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    Rafa Jodar beat Vit Kopriva to advance to the quarterfinals.
    He will face Jannik Sinner. That is a match I want to see.

    br,
    KK

    Regards,


    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Shit <-----------------------------------------------------> Shinola
    "Which is which?" --Sawfish

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sawfish@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 29, 2026 11:07:08
    On 4/29/26 9:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get it right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.If you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type, fluidity etc.

    Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he was able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to him.

    If my memory serves me right?


    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural on slice and volley.

    Take Alcaraz for example, his forehead drip shot is better than backhand one.

    Nevermind that his forehand drop shit is best in the history of tennis, for sure, but I'm specifically pointing out to forehand having the edge in commanding slice.





    Good points, skript!

    WRT prices, if any, I'd agree with volleying and slicing having a
    tendency for the average 2H BH player. They are often extremely awkward.
    This is true even at advanced levels, often. Every now and then I see
    some pros mess up volleys, in particular, and it's a real head
    scratcher. A lot of them have really poor high BH volleys.

    I beg to differ regarding extended backhand *coverage*, I think that all competent 2H BH players, when really pushed at the limit of 2H coverage,
    they simply end up going to a one-handed stretch, most often lob or
    defensive slice. Now I'm not saying that they handle these shots as well
    as a good 1H BH player would, but they do indeed cover the area--just
    not as forcefully or competently.

    Yes, 2H BH drop shots are an abomination, Looks like many competent 2H
    BH players try to do a 1H BH drop, but they can (at worst) signal the
    shot early because their preparation is different than for a 2H BH rally stroke.

    Deep slices, offensive in nature, are also big, big problems for 2H BH.

    And this leads to a reluctance to come to the net off a backhand slice.

    So yeah, 2H BH has some intrinsic problems, but limiting coverage is not really one of them.

    And if you play a 1H BH, as I did, you'll know that while it can be devastating if you can get set up well, it's also pretty weak if you are forced to improvise. That's where the 2H BH has a big advantage; you can
    hit a fairly offensive shot from a weak position, even a little late. Effective 1H BH requires the player to have very good footwork and to
    not be late.

    Really, it is an offensive shot that can be very mediocre when used defensively. Federder reintroduced effective BH slice and he could use
    it as an effective defensive shot, change of pace/bounce in rallies, and
    even for an attack/approach. 2H BH can attack way, way more often and
    from more varied court positioning. You can muscle the ball to recover, Really, you cannot muscle 1H BH in the same way.

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    We are ruled over by controlling, emasculating, spirit-sapping, safety-obsessed nannies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scall5@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 29, 2026 18:34:08
    On 4/29/2026 9:21 AM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/28/26 7:24 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/28/2026 12:14 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/27/26 3:36 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/26/2026 6:16 PM, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
    Hello!

    Madrid ATP1000: In the battle of the 19-year-olds, Spain's
    new rising star Rafa Jodar just beat Brazil's Joao
    Fonseca! What a great match! Hahah!

    br,
    KK

    I was surprised that Ruud won so easily. His next match is
    Tsitsipas...

    Tsitsipas is a sad case.

    Ruud can look very good or very bad. It seems like it is not game by
    game, but much large cyclical oscillations.

    Ruud just beat Tsitsipas, but it was extremely close, three
    tie-break sets.

    I wish I could have seen it, but due to work and evening playoff
    hockey, I won't be able to.

    Tsitsipas needs to understand that there is a lot more riding here -
    it's *not* about him getting grade-A pussy, but he leading the gallant
    one-handed backhand to more slam titles...

    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get it
    right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.

    If you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?

    If they were tall and/or had long arms, I would probably go with
    one-handed. Obviously because I know much more about the shot. But if
    you don't have the footwork, the 1-bh will never be a true weapon.

    My one-handed backhand is the strongest part of my game, so much so that
    it has diminished my lefty advantages - because my smart opponents don't
    hit to it so it's like they are still playing a righty (except on my
    heavy serve which is mediocre, at best).

    My forehand is hit and miss, but when it is *on*, It is slightly faster
    than my 1-bf. It took thousands of hours of practice, but now I can
    really nail my 1-bh with top spin down-the-line or cross-court, even
    high bouncing balls. I also have a very good slice that I use often (especially on fast serve returns). My 1-bh lobs need improvement...

    I *love* to volley, but get lulled to sleep when playing doubles.
    --
    ---------------
    Scall5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scall5@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 29, 2026 18:41:20
    On 4/29/2026 11:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get it right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.If you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type, fluidity etc. Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he was able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to him. If my memory serves me right?

    Originally yes, then Stan the Man replaced him. IMHO. I so loved
    watching Guga and regret that his career was hampered and shortened due
    to hip injuries.

    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural on slice and volley.

    I agree. Does the 2bh require less exact footwork? Personally, I think so.

    --
    ---------------
    Scall5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sawfish@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 29, 2026 17:19:42
    On 4/29/26 4:41 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 11:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get it
    right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.If you had
    a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you want him/her
    taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type,
    fluidity etc. Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he was
    able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to him. If
    my memory serves me right?

    Originally yes, then Stan the Man replaced him. IMHO. I so loved
    watching Guga and regret that his career was hampered and shortened due
    to hip injuries.

    I thought Thiem had a hell of a 1 H BH.

    Lendl also comes to mind, but his FH was so good that it over-shadowed
    the BH.


    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in
    being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural on
    slice and volley.

    I agree. Does the 2bh require less exact footwork? Personally, I think so.

    Yes. You can be late to the ball and often still hit offensively,
    whereas with a 1H BH, if you're late you end up having to slice to stay
    at neutral. Anything else is a crap shoot.

    To be really offensive with 1H BH, the ball needs to be in front of you
    and you've got to get your feet just right. If the ball gets further
    back it gets real hard to TS it.

    Me, I would optimally like it about 1 foot in front of me (toward the
    net) and knee to waist level. Higher forces a grip change, and lower
    forces you more to slice.




    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I woke up this morning and I got myself a beer.
    The future's uncertain and the end is always near. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scall5@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, April 29, 2026 21:19:21
    On 4/29/2026 7:19 PM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 4:41 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 11:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get it
    right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.If you
    had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you want
    him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type,
    fluidity etc. Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he was
    able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to him. If
    my memory serves me right?

    Originally yes, then Stan the Man replaced him. IMHO. I so loved
    watching Guga and regret that his career was hampered and shortened
    due to hip injuries.

    I thought Thiem had a hell of a 1 H BH.

    I read the Yahoo article where Thiem rated bh's and he refused to rank himself, which is understandable. Top 3 or 4, without doubt IMHO.

    Lendl also comes to mind, but his FH was so good that it over-shadowed
    the BH.

    Both true points, and with the 1980's tech. Laver, Emerson, and others
    get nods for lack of tech too.


    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in
    being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural on
    slice and volley.

    I agree. Does the 2bh require less exact footwork? Personally, I think
    so.

    Yes. You can be late to the ball and often still hit offensively,
    whereas with a 1H BH, if you're late you end up having to slice to stay
    at neutral. Anything else is a crap shoot.

    I agree.

    To be really offensive with 1H BH, the ball needs to be in front of you
    and you've got to get your feet just right. If the ball gets further
    back it gets real hard to TS it.

    Correct, for me anyway.

    Me, I would optimally like it about 1 foot in front of me (toward the
    net) and knee to waist level. Higher forces a grip change, and lower
    forces you more to slice.

    I love it when the ball is at my waist to about 6" below my
    shoulders-then I can *really* blast the yellow ball.

    Nothing pisses me off more than when I lean back on my 1hb shots. When I
    am tired, lazy, or mind dumb from doubles (I *much* prefer singles) I do
    that. And then I get pissed off like McEnroe and play worse...
    --
    ---------------
    Scall5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sawfish@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 30, 2026 08:59:21
    On 4/29/26 7:19 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 7:19 PM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 4:41 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 11:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get
    it right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.If
    you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you
    want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type,
    fluidity etc. Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he was
    able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to him. If
    my memory serves me right?

    Originally yes, then Stan the Man replaced him. IMHO. I so loved
    watching Guga and regret that his career was hampered and shortened
    due to hip injuries.

    I thought Thiem had a hell of a 1 H BH.

    I read the Yahoo article where Thiem rated bh's and he refused to rank himself, which is understandable. Top 3 or 4, without doubt IMHO.

    Lendl also comes to mind, but his FH was so good that it over-shadowed
    the BH.

    Both true points, and with the 1980's tech. Laver, Emerson, and others
    get nods for lack of tech too.


    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in
    being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural on
    slice and volley.

    I agree. Does the 2bh require less exact footwork? Personally, I
    think so.

    Yes. You can be late to the ball and often still hit offensively,
    whereas with a 1H BH, if you're late you end up having to slice to
    stay at neutral. Anything else is a crap shoot.

    I agree.

    To be really offensive with 1H BH, the ball needs to be in front of
    you and you've got to get your feet just right. If the ball gets
    further back it gets real hard to TS it.

    Correct, for me anyway.

    Me, I would optimally like it about 1 foot in front of me (toward the
    net) and knee to waist level. Higher forces a grip change, and lower
    forces you more to slice.

    I love it when the ball is at my waist to about 6" below my shoulders-
    then I can *really* blast the yellow ball.

    Nothing pisses me off more than when I lean back on my 1hb shots. When I
    am tired, lazy, or mind dumb from doubles (I *much* prefer singles) I do that. And then I get pissed off like McEnroe and play worse...

    Good man, Scall!!!

    Eastern BH grip? For very low balls, shift to continental (for slicing)?

    Thinking back on it, I never tried consciously to adopt a grip. I just
    dicked around with getting the racquet so that I could hit the ball
    well, and it gradually ended up with eastern forehand (I liked the ball
    sorta low--knee to diaphragm) and eastern backhand. But adjusting grips
    a lot depending on the ball. If it was outside the normal strike zones I
    had for myself, just swap out grips.

    I can recall eventually going to a western-like FH grip if the ball got
    up around head level.

    Anyway, later I looked for what to call the grips I had evolved to using
    so that I could describe them to other people.

    When I first started in the mid-60s (gulp!) I was advised to use
    continental only. Not to shift grips. Bad advice.

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "I done created myself a monster."

    --Juan Carlos Ferrero ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scall5@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 30, 2026 18:43:30
    On 4/30/2026 10:59 AM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 7:19 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 7:19 PM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 4:41 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 11:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get >>>>>> it right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.If
    you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you
    want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type,
    fluidity etc. Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he
    was able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to
    him. If my memory serves me right?

    Originally yes, then Stan the Man replaced him. IMHO. I so loved
    watching Guga and regret that his career was hampered and shortened
    due to hip injuries.

    I thought Thiem had a hell of a 1 H BH.

    I read the Yahoo article where Thiem rated bh's and he refused to rank
    himself, which is understandable. Top 3 or 4, without doubt IMHO.

    Lendl also comes to mind, but his FH was so good that it over-
    shadowed the BH.

    Both true points, and with the 1980's tech. Laver, Emerson, and others
    get nods for lack of tech too.


    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in
    being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural on
    slice and volley.

    I agree. Does the 2bh require less exact footwork? Personally, I
    think so.

    Yes. You can be late to the ball and often still hit offensively,
    whereas with a 1H BH, if you're late you end up having to slice to
    stay at neutral. Anything else is a crap shoot.

    I agree.

    To be really offensive with 1H BH, the ball needs to be in front of
    you and you've got to get your feet just right. If the ball gets
    further back it gets real hard to TS it.

    Correct, for me anyway.

    Me, I would optimally like it about 1 foot in front of me (toward the
    net) and knee to waist level. Higher forces a grip change, and lower
    forces you more to slice.

    I love it when the ball is at my waist to about 6" below my shoulders-
    then I can *really* blast the yellow ball.

    Nothing pisses me off more than when I lean back on my 1hb shots. When
    I am tired, lazy, or mind dumb from doubles (I *much* prefer singles)
    I do that. And then I get pissed off like McEnroe and play worse...

    Good man, Scall!!!

    Eastern˙ BH grip? For very low balls, shift to continental (for slicing)?

    No, Eastern Backhand grip regardless of backhand shot. Continental for
    serves and volleys. Semi-Western forehand.

    Thinking back on it, I never tried consciously to adopt a grip. I just dicked around with getting the racquet so that I could hit the ball
    well, and it gradually ended up with eastern forehand (I liked the ball sorta low--knee to diaphragm) and eastern backhand. But adjusting grips
    a lot depending on the ball. If it was outside the normal strike zones I
    had for myself, just swap out grips.

    I can recall eventually going to a western-like FH grip if the ball got
    up around head level.

    Anyway, later I looked for what to call the grips I had evolved to using
    so that I could describe them to other people.

    When I first started in the mid-60s (gulp!) I was advised to use
    continental only. Not to shift grips. Bad advice.

    I'll say. Personally I didn't receive coaching until about 8 years into playing. By then I had many bad habits that were a nightmare and took
    *years* to fix. But at the time (pre-internet) I thought that I couldn't
    avoid coaching.
    --
    ---------------
    Scall5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sawfish@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 30, 2026 17:30:06
    On 4/30/26 4:43 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/30/2026 10:59 AM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 7:19 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 7:19 PM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 4:41 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 11:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to get >>>>>>> it right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, etc.If >>>>>>> you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH would you >>>>>>> want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type,
    fluidity etc. Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he
    was able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to
    him. If my memory serves me right?

    Originally yes, then Stan the Man replaced him. IMHO. I so loved
    watching Guga and regret that his career was hampered and shortened >>>>> due to hip injuries.

    I thought Thiem had a hell of a 1 H BH.

    I read the Yahoo article where Thiem rated bh's and he refused to
    rank himself, which is understandable. Top 3 or 4, without doubt IMHO.

    Lendl also comes to mind, but his FH was so good that it over-
    shadowed the BH.

    Both true points, and with the 1980's tech. Laver, Emerson, and
    others get nods for lack of tech too.


    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in >>>>>> being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural on >>>>>> slice and volley.

    I agree. Does the 2bh require less exact footwork? Personally, I
    think so.

    Yes. You can be late to the ball and often still hit offensively,
    whereas with a 1H BH, if you're late you end up having to slice to
    stay at neutral. Anything else is a crap shoot.

    I agree.

    To be really offensive with 1H BH, the ball needs to be in front of
    you and you've got to get your feet just right. If the ball gets
    further back it gets real hard to TS it.

    Correct, for me anyway.

    Me, I would optimally like it about 1 foot in front of me (toward
    the net) and knee to waist level. Higher forces a grip change, and
    lower forces you more to slice.

    I love it when the ball is at my waist to about 6" below my
    shoulders- then I can *really* blast the yellow ball.

    Nothing pisses me off more than when I lean back on my 1hb shots.
    When I am tired, lazy, or mind dumb from doubles (I *much* prefer
    singles) I do that. And then I get pissed off like McEnroe and play
    worse...

    Good man, Scall!!!

    Eastern˙ BH grip? For very low balls, shift to continental (for slicing)?

    No, Eastern Backhand grip regardless of backhand shot. Continental for serves and volleys. Semi-Western forehand.

    Terrific exchange!

    With your forehand grip it lets you handle a higher ball than with my
    grip (eastern FH). Volleys continental, yep, but I eventually went to an eastern BH grip--damned close to my normal BH but for serving--but I
    dicked around with it to get different effects, especially 2nd serve
    American twist. What a fuckin' hop!!! I had so many people actually lean
    the wrong way from where the ball bounced.

    Of course, they caught on, but it was fun to see the first few times.


    Thinking back on it, I never tried consciously to adopt a grip. I just
    dicked around with getting the racquet so that I could hit the ball
    well, and it gradually ended up with eastern forehand (I liked the
    ball sorta low--knee to diaphragm) and eastern backhand. But adjusting
    grips a lot depending on the ball. If it was outside the normal strike
    zones I had for myself, just swap out grips.

    I can recall eventually going to a western-like FH grip if the ball
    got up around head level.

    Anyway, later I looked for what to call the grips I had evolved to
    using so that I could describe them to other people.

    When I first started in the mid-60s (gulp!) I was advised to use
    continental only. Not to shift grips. Bad advice.

    I'll say. Personally I didn't receive coaching until about 8 years into playing. By then I had many bad habits that were a nightmare and took *years* to fix. But at the time (pre-internet) I thought that I couldn't avoid coaching.

    Never really had coaching. I once took a summer rec class with group
    lessons. I really did not take anything away from it WRT mechanics, but
    it was the first time in my life where I saw what an offensive TS lob
    could do--what it *looked* like going overhead--a helpless, hopeless
    feeling. The instructor played everyone a few games in singles on the
    last day.

    So then I taught myself TS lobs!!!!

    Man, I also can recall the first time I saw what happens to the ball
    when a really good extreme western grip player passes you as you S&V but
    are not careful. The hair spun out making the ball looks a bit
    disk-like, then it appeared to roll off the edge of a table and run away
    to toward baseline.

    Scared me.

    So I adapted as best I could... :^(




    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I?ve seen things you people wouldn?t believe.

    Barbecue grills on fire behind the condominiums that line the 9th fairway.

    I watched casual strollers slip on dog excrement on the boardwalk near
    the amusement pier.

    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

    Time for lunch.

    --Sawfish

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scall5@3:633/10 to All on Thursday, April 30, 2026 21:24:20
    On 4/30/2026 7:30 PM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/30/26 4:43 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/30/2026 10:59 AM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 7:19 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 7:19 PM, Sawfish wrote:
    On 4/29/26 4:41 PM, Scall5 wrote:
    On 4/29/2026 11:27 AM, *skriptis wrote:
    Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
    It's a great looking shot, and it took me a very long time to >>>>>>>> get it right, mostly. Inside-out 1H BH, with top spin & pace, >>>>>>>> etc.If you had a kid and wanted to get them lessons, which BH >>>>>>>> would you want him/her taught--assuming you had the choice?


    It should be subject to some deeper analysis, height, body type, >>>>>>> fluidity etc. Guga had most vicious powerful 1hb and the fact he >>>>>>> was able to play inside out with it means it was very natural to >>>>>>> him. If my memory serves me right?

    Originally yes, then Stan the Man replaced him. IMHO. I so loved
    watching Guga and regret that his career was hampered and
    shortened due to hip injuries.

    I thought Thiem had a hell of a 1 H BH.

    I read the Yahoo article where Thiem rated bh's and he refused to
    rank himself, which is understandable. Top 3 or 4, without doubt IMHO. >>>>>
    Lendl also comes to mind, but his FH was so good that it over-
    shadowed the BH.

    Both true points, and with the 1980's tech. Laver, Emerson, and
    others get nods for lack of tech too.


    Overall 2hb has the advantage but I guess it comes at a price, in >>>>>>> being able to cover less court and being weaker or less natural >>>>>>> on slice and volley.

    I agree. Does the 2bh require less exact footwork? Personally, I
    think so.

    Yes. You can be late to the ball and often still hit offensively,
    whereas with a 1H BH, if you're late you end up having to slice to
    stay at neutral. Anything else is a crap shoot.

    I agree.

    To be really offensive with 1H BH, the ball needs to be in front of >>>>> you and you've got to get your feet just right. If the ball gets
    further back it gets real hard to TS it.

    Correct, for me anyway.

    Me, I would optimally like it about 1 foot in front of me (toward
    the net) and knee to waist level. Higher forces a grip change, and
    lower forces you more to slice.

    I love it when the ball is at my waist to about 6" below my
    shoulders- then I can *really* blast the yellow ball.

    Nothing pisses me off more than when I lean back on my 1hb shots.
    When I am tired, lazy, or mind dumb from doubles (I *much* prefer
    singles) I do that. And then I get pissed off like McEnroe and play
    worse...

    Good man, Scall!!!

    Eastern˙ BH grip? For very low balls, shift to continental (for
    slicing)?

    No, Eastern Backhand grip regardless of backhand shot. Continental for
    serves and volleys. Semi-Western forehand.

    Terrific exchange!

    With your forehand grip it lets you handle a higher ball than with my
    grip (eastern FH). Volleys continental, yep, but I eventually went to an eastern BH grip--damned close to my normal BH but for serving--but I
    dicked around with it to get different effects, especially 2nd serve American twist. What a fuckin' hop!!! I had so many people actually lean
    the wrong way from where the ball bounced.

    *When* I am hitting my lefty forehand well, I do prefer the ball at
    about 1' higher than my waist and will nail any ball with the same pace
    up to shoulder height.

    Of course, they caught on, but it was fun to see the first few times.


    Thinking back on it, I never tried consciously to adopt a grip. I
    just dicked around with getting the racquet so that I could hit the
    ball well, and it gradually ended up with eastern forehand (I liked
    the ball sorta low--knee to diaphragm) and eastern backhand. But
    adjusting grips a lot depending on the ball. If it was outside the
    normal strike zones I had for myself, just swap out grips.

    I can recall eventually going to a western-like FH grip if the ball
    got up around head level.

    Anyway, later I looked for what to call the grips I had evolved to
    using so that I could describe them to other people.

    When I first started in the mid-60s (gulp!) I was advised to use
    continental only. Not to shift grips. Bad advice.

    I'll say. Personally I didn't receive coaching until about 8 years
    into playing. By then I had many bad habits that were a nightmare and
    took *years* to fix. But at the time (pre-internet) I thought that I
    couldn't avoid coaching.

    Typo. I meant that I thought I couldn't *afford* coaching. I simply
    wasn't aware of local coaching clinics. Instead I bought a few VCR
    videos, several books, and played with anyone who would pick up a
    racquet...

    Never really had coaching. I once took a summer rec class with group lessons. I really did not take anything away from it WRT mechanics, but
    it was the first time in my life where I saw what an offensive TS lob
    could do--what it *looked* like˙ going overhead--a helpless, hopeless feeling. The instructor played everyone a few games in singles on the
    last day.

    So then I taught myself TS lobs!!!!

    Man, I also can recall the first time I saw what happens to the ball
    when a really good extreme western grip player passes you as you S&V but
    are not careful. The hair spun out making the ball looks a bit disk-
    like, then it appeared to roll off the edge of a table and run away to toward baseline.

    Scared me.

    So I adapted as best I could...˙ :^(

    Yep. Me too.
    --
    ---------------
    Scall5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)