Arthur Lipscomb wrote in article <116plm7$1jiff$1@dont-email.me>:
The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible.
The puppet episode of Angel was one of the best episodes the show ever
put out.
I'm surprised to hear you or anyone say that. We clearly have
different tastes. What did you like about it?
My experience with puppet episodes is that the writers lean on
the gimmick and don't bother doing anything with it.
On 8/27/2026 9:15 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
Arthur Lipscomb wrote in article <116plm7$1jiff$1@dont-email.me>:
The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible.
The puppet episode of Angel was one of the best episodes the show ever
put out.
I'm surprised to hear you or anyone say that. We clearly have
different tastes. What did you like about it?
It was funny! Especially Spike calling Angel a "Wee little puppet man."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpbagkZuJsw
My experience with puppet episodes is that the writers lean on
the gimmick and don't bother doing anything with it.
I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands
of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.
I do get your concern about leaning on a gimmick. But that's true
whether puppets or not. I think it's just bad writing. You can totally
do a bad puppet episode. But the problem isn't the existence of the
puppet, the problem is the writing. I have zero issue with someone
watching the episode and not liking it. I took issue that 100% of the complaints were being launched before the episode aired. No one
complaining about it had actually watched it.
I think what may get glossed over in the complaints about Strange New
Worlds doing a puppet episode, in particular by people who were basing
their complaints on the commercial without actually watching the episode
is Vg jnf nyy n qernz. Hayvxr va Natry, jurer ur ernyyl jnf ghearq vagb
n chccrg, gur punenpgref va Fgenatr Arj Jbeyqf jrer abg npghnyyl ghearq
vagb chccrgf.
It was a for fun episode. Star Trek does for fun episodes all the time since TOS.
I think what may get glossed over in the complaints about Strange New
Worlds doing a puppet episode, in particular by people who were basing
their complaints on the commercial without actually watching the episode
is Vg jnf nyy n qernz. Hayvxr va Natry, jurer ur ernyyl jnf ghearq vagb
n chccrg, gur punenpgref va Fgenatr Arj Jbeyqf jrer abg npghnyyl ghearq
vagb chccrgf.
It was a for fun episode. Star Trek does for fun episodes all the time since TOS.
Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/27/2026 4:00 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:
I watched:
There?s No Defending Strange New Worlds Anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWrwqOdGtU
This must be about the puppet episode. Nobody ever talks about
Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.
I'm am positive that the over whelming majority, if not 100% of the
people saying bad things about this episode either didn't watch it, or
already don't like the show and just looking for things to complain about. >>
Are puppet episodes ever good?
Yes.
The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible.
The puppet episode of Angel was one of the best episodes the show ever
put out.
Yes. On the other hand, the puppet episode of Voyage to the Bottom of the
Sea was terrible despite Vincent Price.
segment of Stargate SG1 (the ?SG? stands for: PUPPETS!) was brilliant.
Ubiquitous wrote in article <116q46k$1p03l$1@dont-email.me>:
thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM wrote:
Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:
Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.
Are puppet episodes ever good? The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible. The puppet episode of Community was terrible.
I don't remember if I saw it, but I heard the puppet ep of Angel
was quite good and cotained some clever meanings.
That's interesting. I never heard anything good about it.
At the time, I was recapping Angel episodes for a web forum. IIRC
one of my comments for this one was "After last week I thought
they were finally going somewhere, and then they give me this
crap."
Someone else I knew saw that episode and gave up on the show.
She'd tuned back in based on my assessment that the Illyria arc
was improving the show, and the puppet episode made her tune out
again.
I think the reason many dislike these is not that we hate puppets
but that it's difficult to explain how someone turns into a
puppet in a non-stupid manner. I don't remember Angel's gimmick
at this point, but I remember feeling disgusted.
On 8/27/2026 9:15 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
My experience with puppet episodes is that the writers lean on
the gimmick and don't bother doing anything with it.
I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands
of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more >timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.
I do get your concern about leaning on a gimmick. But that's true
whether puppets or not. I think it's just bad writing. You can totally
do a bad puppet episode. But the problem isn't the existence of the
puppet, the problem is the writing. I have zero issue with someone
watching the episode and not liking it. I took issue that 100% of the >complaints were being launched before the episode aired. No one
complaining about it had actually watched it.
I think what may get glossed over in the complaints about Strange New
Worlds doing a puppet episode, in particular by people who were basing
their complaints on the commercial without actually watching the episode
is Vg jnf nyy n qernz. Hayvxr va Natry, jurer ur ernyyl jnf ghearq vagb
n chccrg, gur punenpgref va Fgenatr Arj Jbeyqf jrer abg npghnyyl ghearq
vagb chccrgf.
It was a for fun episode. Star Trek does for fun episodes all the time >since TOS.
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 8/27/2026 4:00 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:
The 'Stargate: SG-1' puppet episode wasn't too bad.... :DI watched:
There?s No Defending Strange New Worlds Anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWrwqOdGtU
This must be about the puppet episode. Nobody ever talks about
Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.
Are puppet episodes ever good? The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible. The puppet episode of Community was terrible.
It's amazing that three different live-action shows have such a
thing as a puppet episode. Why does this keep happening? You'd
think they'd learn.
Damn, I owe you puppet ice cream
In "Angel", it was a Demonoic spell, which makes sense within the
show's logic.
arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:
I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands >of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more >timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.
Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h6eb$1hqhi$3@dont-email.me>:
Actually, I only quote Arthur here.
arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:
I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands >>> of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more
timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.
I was just thinking about timeloop episodes. As far as I know,
Groundhog Day invented the trope of repeating a day until the
protagonist gets it right. No gods or other controlling forces are ever seen; it just happens.
There've been a lot of them since. Xena's "Been There; Done That" was excellent. American Dad's "Yule. Tide. Repeat" is also good.
At this point, it's been around long enough that we should start to see variations. The only variant I can think of is from Fantasy Island
(2021), where *two* people both had to get the day right and their
needs seemed to conflict until it was solved.
I haven't yet seen any reversals -- say, someone has to be evil enough
or extract enough revenge to win the day. I also haven't seen any
fakeouts, where some villain went to a lot of trouble to create the
illusion of a repeating day. I might also expect subversions, where
someone thinks he has to get the day right but it's really all about
someone else. Maybe we just need a little more time.
Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually bad) examples?
anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 8/27/2026 4:00 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:
The 'Stargate: SG-1' puppet episode wasn't too bad.... :DI watched:
There?s No Defending Strange New Worlds Anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWrwqOdGtU
This must be about the puppet episode. Nobody ever talks about
Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.
Are puppet episodes ever good? The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible. The puppet episode of Community was terrible.
It's amazing that three different live-action shows have such a
thing as a puppet episode. Why does this keep happening? You'd
think they'd learn.
Damn, I owe you puppet ice cream
Is it made from real puppets?
But the idea pre-dates that by at least 11 years with the first 'time
loop' story generally considerd to be the novel "Worm Ouroboros" in
1922.
Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h634$1hqhi$2@dont-email.me>:
In "Angel", it was a Demonoic spell, which makes sense within the
show's logic.
If you say so. I thought it was an eye-roller. Maybe next they
could all go on a game show because a demon made them.
On 2026-09-05 15:16:48 +0000, The True Melissa said:
Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h6eb$1hqhi$3@dont-email.me>:
Actually, I only quote Arthur here.
arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:
I guess I don't see it as really being a thing.ÿ Of the 10s of
thousands
of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched.ÿ I've probably seen more
timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.
I was just thinking about timeloop episodes. As far as I know,
Groundhog Day invented the trope of repeating a day until the
protagonist gets it right. No gods or other controlling forces are
ever seen; it just happens.
Nope.
In terms of movies, the first one to have a 'time loop' was "Turn Back
the Clock" in 1933.
<https://gamerant.com/origins-history-time-loop-film-tv/>
But the idea pre-dates that by at least 11 years with the first 'time
loop' story generally considerd to be the novel "Worm Ouroboros" in
1922. Possibly the Russian novel "Strange Life of Ivan Osokin" from
1915, although he only seems to go through his life twice. <https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/10988/what-is-the- earliest-work-with-the-time-loop-trope> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop>
There've been a lot of them since. Xena's "Been There; Done That" was
excellent.
At this point, it's been around long enough that we should start to
see variations. The only variant I can think of is from Fantasy Island
(2021), where *two* people both had to get the day right and their
needs seemed to conflict until it was solved.
"Edge of Tomorrow" (2014). The characters played by Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt have to work together, although, from memory, she doesn't realise
it is a time loop until he tells her each time. It's the 'best' movie starring Tom Cruise, simply because you get to see the idiot 'actor' die multiple times.ÿ :-p
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_of_Tomorrow>
I haven't yet seen any reversals -- say, someone has to be evil enough
or extract enough revenge to win the day. I also haven't seen any
fakeouts, where some villain went to a lot of trouble to create the
illusion of a repeating day. I might also expect subversions, where
someone thinks he has to get the day right but it's really all about
someone else. Maybe we just need a little more time.
Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually bad)
examples?
There are numerous lists on the internet, although I don't think any of
them are actually "complete".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_featuring_time_loops> <https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089989339/> <https://lifehacker.com/17-of-the-best-time-loop-movies-and-tv-shows- that-arent-1848452661>
On 9/5/2026 3:41 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2026-09-05 15:16:48 +0000, The True Melissa said:
Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h6eb$1hqhi$3@dont-email.me>:
Actually, I only quote Arthur here.
arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:
I guess I don't see it as really being a thing.ÿ Of the 10s of
thousands
of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand >>>>> the number of puppet episodes I've watched.ÿ I've probably seen more >>>>> timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.
I was just thinking about timeloop episodes. As far as I know,
Groundhog Day invented the trope of repeating a day until the
protagonist gets it right. No gods or other controlling forces are
ever seen; it just happens.
Nope.
In terms of movies, the first one to have a 'time loop' was "Turn Back
the Clock" in 1933.
<https://gamerant.com/origins-history-time-loop-film-tv/>
But the idea pre-dates that by at least 11 years with the first 'time
loop' story generally considerd to be the novel "Worm Ouroboros" in
1922. Possibly the Russian novel "Strange Life of Ivan Osokin" from
1915, although he only seems to go through his life twice.
<https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/10988/what-is-the-
earliest-work-with-the-time-loop-trope>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop>
There was also a TV movie called 12:01 that came out the same year as Groundhog Day.
There've been a lot of them since. Xena's "Been There; Done That" was
excellent.
I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember it being one of the
better episodes.
American Dad's "Yule. Tide. Repeat" is also good.
At this point, it's been around long enough that we should start to
see variations. The only variant I can think of is from Fantasy Island
(2021), where *two* people both had to get the day right and their
needs seemed to conflict until it was solved.
"Edge of Tomorrow" (2014). The characters played by Tom Cruise and Emily
Blunt have to work together, although, from memory, she doesn't realise
it is a time loop until he tells her each time. It's the 'best' movie
starring Tom Cruise, simply because you get to see the idiot 'actor' die
multiple times.ÿ :-p
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_of_Tomorrow>
There are enough Timeloop movies that they have subgenres now. Next
year I'm going to marathon some horror timeloop movies.
I haven't yet seen any reversals -- say, someone has to be evil enough
or extract enough revenge to win the day. I also haven't seen any
fakeouts, where some villain went to a lot of trouble to create the
illusion of a repeating day. I might also expect subversions, where
someone thinks he has to get the day right but it's really all about
someone else. Maybe we just need a little more time.
Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually bad)
examples?
There are numerous lists on the internet, although I don't think any of
them are actually "complete".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_featuring_time_loops>
<https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089989339/>
<https://lifehacker.com/17-of-the-best-time-loop-movies-and-tv-shows-
that-arent-1848452661>
"Day Break" was a really good, short lived, TV series starring Tay Diggs
and Moon Bloodgood. The premise had Diggs caught in a timeloop. Each episode was a different loop. But unlike other timeloop stories over
the course of the few episodes the series aired, there were subtle differences that started to creep into the loops. Just because
something happened one loop didn't mean the same thing would happen
again the next. If I recall correctly, if Diggs was injured the injury carried over into the next day. And I'm pretty sure in one of the last episodes, or maybe the last one that aired, Diggs did something in loop
that to his surprise didn't fully reset the next day. I think it was
maybe the emotion of his girlfriend being upset with him for something
he did didn't reset and he was caught off guard by that.
I'm still ticked off they canceled the show without resolving any of the questions it raised.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1attJKFFHl8
On 2026-09-05 15:16:48 +0000, The True Melissa said:
Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h6eb$1hqhi$3@dont-email.me>:
Actually, I only quote Arthur here.
arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:
I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands >>>> of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more
timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.
I was just thinking about timeloop episodes. As far as I know,
Groundhog Day invented the trope of repeating a day until the
protagonist gets it right. No gods or other controlling forces are ever
seen; it just happens.
Nope.
In terms of movies, the first one to have a 'time loop' was "Turn Back
the Clock" in 1933.
<https://gamerant.com/origins-history-time-loop-film-tv/>
But the idea pre-dates that by at least 11 years with the first 'time
loop' story generally considerd to be the novel "Worm Ouroboros" in
1922. Possibly the Russian novel "Strange Life of Ivan Osokin" from
1915, although he only seems to go through his life twice. <https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/10988/what-is-the-earliest-work-with-the-time-loop-trope>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop>
There've been a lot of them since. Xena's "Been There; Done That" was
excellent. American Dad's "Yule. Tide. Repeat" is also good.
At this point, it's been around long enough that we should start to see
variations. The only variant I can think of is from Fantasy Island
(2021), where *two* people both had to get the day right and their
needs seemed to conflict until it was solved.
"Edge of Tomorrow" (2014). The characters played by Tom Cruise and
Emily Blunt have to work together, although, from memory, she doesn't realise it is a time loop until he tells her each time. It's the 'best' movie starring Tom Cruise, simply because you get to see the idiot
'actor' die multiple times. :-p <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_of_Tomorrow>
I haven't yet seen any reversals -- say, someone has to be evil enough
or extract enough revenge to win the day. I also haven't seen any
fakeouts, where some villain went to a lot of trouble to create the
illusion of a repeating day. I might also expect subversions, where
someone thinks he has to get the day right but it's really all about
someone else. Maybe we just need a little more time.
Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually bad)
examples?
There are numerous lists on the internet, although I don't think any of
them are actually "complete".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_featuring_time_loops> <https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089989339/> <https://lifehacker.com/17-of-the-best-time-loop-movies-and-tv-shows-that-arent-1848452661>
I was just thinking about timeloop episodes. As far as I know,
Groundhog Day invented the trope of repeating a day until the
protagonist gets it right. No gods or other controlling forces
are ever seen; it just happens.
There've been a lot of them since. Xena's "Been There; Done
That" was excellent. American Dad's "Yule. Tide. Repeat" is also
good.
At this point, it's been around long enough that we should start
to see variations. The only variant I can think of is from
Fantasy Island (2021), where *two* people both had to get the day
right and their needs seemed to conflict until it was solved.
I haven't yet seen any reversals -- say, someone has to be evil
enough or extract enough revenge to win the day. I also haven't
seen any fakeouts, where some villain went to a lot of trouble to
create the illusion of a repeating day. I might also expect
subversions, where someone thinks he has to get the day right but
it's really all about someone else. Maybe we just need a little
more time.
Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually
bad) examples?
thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM wrote:little
it's really all about someone else. Maybe we just need a
more time.
Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually
bad) examples?
I remember liking the Star Trek Next Generation on in which we saw
The Enterprise being destroyed over and over again, but I am not sure
how their solution worked if they were really in a time loop scenario.
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