• Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list [Modified 20260401]

    From Andrew M.A. Cater@3:633/10 to All on Friday, May 01, 2026 19:20:01
    Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
    and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

    Codes of Conduct
    ================

    * The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
    the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
    https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
    https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

    Guidelines for this list
    ========================
    Some guidelines which may help explain how the list should work:

    Language
    ========

    * The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
    lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french or
    debian-user-catalan

    * It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
    from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
    English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

    Answering questions and contributing to discussions constructively ==================================================================

    * This is a fairly busy mailing list but even so you may have to wait some
    time for an answer - please be patient.

    * Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
    It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

    * It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.

    * Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
    a question before you - if so, you should not reply simply in order to get
    the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

    Off-topic posts
    ===============

    * Please try to stay on topic.

    * Off-topic posts will happen occasionally as threads wander.
    Don't reply to them to make them carry on.

    * If you wish to introduce an off-topic subject that might be
    of interest to the wider list, start a new thread and preface
    the title with [OT].

    * There is no debian-offtopic mailing list: please don't try
    to start one.

    Partisan topics and political arguments
    * Arguments for the sake of it are not
    welcome here.

    * Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments do not belong here
    either.

    Debian's community is world wide; do not assume others will agree with your
    views or need to read them on a Debian list.

    Editing and answering mailing list posts ========================================

    * It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
    or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
    accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

    For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

    * It may also be useful for someone to post a summary email from time to
    time to explain long threads.

    * Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
    and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

    * Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
    read and follow than long threads.

    * If you are replying to a post, please reply in-line if possible and
    cut out extra text that is not relevant to your point.

    Private replies and responding to posts off-list ================================================

    * Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
    conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
    along on the list or reading the archives later.

    * We're only human: you may want to respond to someone off-list
    to make a point (or to wish them Happy Birthday / comment that you
    haven't seen them for a long time). We're also a community and the
    people you find on the list may become familiar friends

    BUT

    * Posting outside the list can be unhelpful: bad behaviour outside the lists
    can't easily be dealt with and will be invisible. You may inadvertently leak
    personal information by posting a private reply back to the list.

    If you *do* want to post outside the list - make it clear that you have done
    so at the top of the message. If someone replies to you privately and you
    think that this should go back to the list - ask them to post it to the list
    - do not just do so on their behalf without checking.

    I can't see what I want here - help me!
    =======================================

    * It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
    you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
    else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
    https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

    * Although there are only 20 or 30 regular contributors, there may
    be a couple of thousand readers in the background. Nobody is
    a mind reader, nobody can sit beside you. Please help by providing
    useful details if asked, especially which version of Debian you are
    running.

    I'm not using Debian but ...
    ============================

    * Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
    Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
    only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
    Any advice given accordingly may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.

    FAQ topics
    ==========

    * There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
    list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

    This is a public list, archived in many places ==============================================

    * One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time
    is of the form:

    "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
    Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

    Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially cached by Google and so on.

    Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to
    draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

    Problems and inappropriate behaviour?
    =====================================

    Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
    Debian Community Team <community@debian.org>.

    Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings: repeated bad behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Will Mengarini@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, May 02, 2026 01:20:08
    Subject: FAQ diff -u [was: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list [Modified 20260401]]

    Note that although the subject says "Modified 20260401",
    this was actually mailed on 5/1. The full diff -wu:

    --- _01 2026-02-02 21:21:51.646238002 -0800
    +++ _04 2026-05-01 15:29:54.592950190 -0700
    @@ -1,101 +1,143 @@
    Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
    and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

    -Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:
    +Codes of Conduct
    +================
    +
    +* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
    + the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct + https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
    + https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
    +
    +Guidelines for this list
    +========================
    +Some guidelines which may help explain how the list should work:
    +
    +Language
    +========

    * The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
    - lists that are language-specific for example debian-user-french
    + lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french or
    + debian-user-catalan

    -* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists - for example, +* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
    from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
    English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

    -* It is not primarily a discussion forum for wishlist items for Debian. If
    - you are looking for something to be changed within Debian, there may be
    - more appropriate lists.
    -
    -* Although the list has some developers reading it, it is not a primary
    - forum for contacting Debian developers. It may be more appropriate to
    - use reportbug or other tools for raising bugs on the Debian bug tracker.
    -
    -* If you have a problem - do try looking with a search engine to see if
    - someone else has had similar issues. If you can't understand what you
    - find, at least if you bring that search criterion to the list, we may
    - have a better idea of where to start. (See also how to ask questions
    - below.)
    -
    -* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
    - the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct +Answering questions and contributing to discussions constructively +==================================================================

    - https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
    - https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
    -
    -* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
    - answer - please be patient. Please post answers back to the list so
    - others can benefit; private conversations don't benefit people who
    - may be following along on the list or reading the archives later.
    +* This is a fairly busy mailing list but even so you may have to wait some
    + time for an answer - please be patient.

    * Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
    It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

    - * Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
    - welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
    - do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; don't
    - assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
    - Debian list.
    -
    -* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on
    - this list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
    -
    -* How to ask questions and read replies.
    -
    -1. PLEASE use a subject line that means something - "I need help" is probably -not useful. "I'm having problems with the Debian 12.12 amd64 DVD image" or -similar is better - something that sets out one problem / a single issue.
    -
    -2. Try and write down what steps you have taken / where you have found -information. Show what you have actually done as much as what you think you -have done. If it helps, write down things you do / commands you run as you do -them.
    -
    -3. People may ask you to run commands to establish what is happening / what -hardware you have. Provide the full output if you can: if you can't provide -full output - show what commands you ran and what output (if any) was the -result after each command. The history command will help here.
    -Likewise with logs. It may be also be appropriate for you to ask what extra -information is needed / may help others solve the problem and then to try
    -to give the extra information requested.
    -
    -4. The mailing list threads replies. Don't break the thread / raise other -issues needlessly . It is as easy to begin a separate email - one per issue.
    -
    -Please DO NOT hijack other people's ongoing threads. Raise a separate email, -as above
    -
    -5. If several people ask similar questions, it may be possible to summarise -lots of information in one post.
    -
    -6. Give as much useful information as you can. If you are unsure, it is fine -to ask what other information might be necessary. We cannot all read minds: we -need some clues.
    -
    -7. If all other things don't work: stop, write down one thing you want to -make clearer and make that clear. Slow down and think - sometimes a -deliberate approach is necessary.
    -
    -8. If the problem has produced a long thread it is very useful to provide a -subject title periodically with [SUMMARY] or [SOLVED] outlining how the -problem was eventually solved or showing what issues remain outstanding.
    -
    -9. Unfortunately, the people on the Debian mailing lists / IRC channels cannot -give good advice for every Debian-derived distribution. Each distribution -changes different things and we will not have all the answers.
    -
    -10. As a result, strictly speaking, Debian-derived distributions are off-topic -in debian-user. Each one should have its own support channels and processes to -raise issues. Debian-user is not normally the appropriate place to raise -problems with non-Debian distributions though if you can reproduce the -problem in Debian we will possibly be better able to help.
    +* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.
    +
    +* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
    + a question before you - if so, you should not reply simply in order to get
    + the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.
    +
    +Off-topic posts
    +===============
    +
    +* Please try to stay on topic.
    +
    +* Off-topic posts will happen occasionally as threads wander.
    + Don't reply to them to make them carry on.
    +
    +* If you wish to introduce an off-topic subject that might be
    + of interest to the wider list, start a new thread and preface
    + the title with [OT].
    +
    +* There is no debian-offtopic mailing list: please don't try
    + to start one.
    +
    +Partisan topics and political arguments
    +* Arguments for the sake of it are not
    + welcome here.
    +
    +* Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments do not belong here
    + either.
    +
    + Debian's community is world wide; do not assume others will agree with your + views or need to read them on a Debian list.
    +
    +Editing and answering mailing list posts +========================================
    +
    +* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
    + or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
    + accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.
    +
    + For example: New question [WAS Old topic]
    +
    +* It may also be useful for someone to post a summary email from time to
    + time to explain long threads.
    +
    +* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
    + and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.
    +
    +* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
    + read and follow than long threads.
    +
    +* If you are replying to a post, please reply in-line if possible and
    + cut out extra text that is not relevant to your point.
    +
    +Private replies and responding to posts off-list +================================================
    +
    +* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
    + conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
    + along on the list or reading the archives later.
    +
    +* We're only human: you may want to respond to someone off-list
    + to make a point (or to wish them Happy Birthday / comment that you
    + haven't seen them for a long time). We're also a community and the
    + people you find on the list may become familiar friends
    +
    + BUT
    +
    +* Posting outside the list can be unhelpful: bad behaviour outside the lists
    + can't easily be dealt with and will be invisible. You may inadvertently leak + personal information by posting a private reply back to the list.
    +
    + If you *do* want to post outside the list - make it clear that you have done + so at the top of the message. If someone replies to you privately and you
    + think that this should go back to the list - ask them to post it to the list + - do not just do so on their behalf without checking.
    +
    +I can't see what I want here - help me! +=======================================
    +
    +* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
    + you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
    + else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
    + https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.
    +
    +* Although there are only 20 or 30 regular contributors, there may
    + be a couple of thousand readers in the background. Nobody is
    + a mind reader, nobody can sit beside you. Please help by providing
    + useful details if asked, especially which version of Debian you are
    + running.
    +
    +I'm not using Debian but ...
    +============================
    +
    +* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
    + Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
    + only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
    + Any advice given accordingly may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.
    +
    +FAQ topics
    +==========
    +
    +* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this + list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
    +
    +This is a public list, archived in many places +==============================================

    * One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time
    is of the form:
    @@ -104,37 +146,18 @@
    Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

    Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially -cached by Google and so on. Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to -ensure that all copies anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this -may only serve to draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect" -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
    -
    -Spam and unsolicited commercial email that doesn't belong on the list -=====================================================================
    -
    -Debian does have comparatively strong spam filters on the mailing lists: -listmasters will remove emails that are reported as spam. The easiest
    -way to report spam is by using the web interface to Debian mailing lists -below https://lists.debian.org
    -
    -If you quote spam email in a reply, you may end up making the spam filters -less effective. If you respond to it on list, then it becomes part of the -list conversations forever. Replying to it with angry messages won't get
    -back to the originators and does not help the ongoing fight against spam. +cached by Google and so on.

    -See also: https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam +Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies +anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to +draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
    +See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

    -Problems?
    -=========
    +Problems and inappropriate behaviour?
    +=====================================

    Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
    Debian Community Team <community@debian.org>.

    -Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad +Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings: repeated bad
    behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.
    -
    -Contributions
    -=============
    -
    -This FAQ is now archived as a git repository. Contributions and corrections -would be welcome. Contact amacater@debian.org for details.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Geert Stappers@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, May 02, 2026 07:00:01
    Subject: Re: FAQ diff -u [was: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list [Modified 20260401]]

    On Fri, May 01, 2026 at 04:00:42PM -0700, Will Mengarini wrote:
    Note that although the subject says "Modified 20260401",
    this was actually mailed on 5/1. The full diff -wu:

    --- _01 2026-02-02 21:21:51.646238002 -0800
    +++ _04 2026-05-01 15:29:54.592950190 -0700
    @@ -1,101 +1,143 @@
    .... snip ....
    @@ -104,37 +146,18 @@
    .... snip ....


    What could (what should???) have been seen in that `diff -wu`?

    And more important:
    How will further attention on that diff help us forward?



    Regards
    Geert Stappers


    P.S.

    Feel free to render the above questions as rhetoric questions.
    --
    Silence is hard to parse

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Andrew M.A. Cater@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, May 02, 2026 11:30:01
    Subject: Re: FAQ diff -u [was: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list [Modified 20260401]]

    On Fri, May 01, 2026 at 04:00:42PM -0700, Will Mengarini wrote:
    Note that although the subject says "Modified 20260401",
    this was actually mailed on 5/1. The full diff -wu:

    --- _01 2026-02-02 21:21:51.646238002 -0800
    +++ _04 2026-05-01 15:29:54.592950190 -0700
    @@ -1,101 +1,143 @@
    Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
    and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.



    Hi Will (and anybody else who cares)

    Yes, the FAQ is posted on the first of the month if I practically can.
    Ideally it comes fairly near the start of the posts on that day on
    page one of the web archive. That keeps it visible.

    Following a couple of edits mid-month generating threads on the list -
    I try to make any consequential edits on the first of the month.
    Just sometimes I'll spot a typo mid month and correct it next month.

    The message subject is hand typed - obviously, you can see mistakes -
    but always shows the last date modified. In your diff, you've taken
    three months apart - and, actually there were changes. (That's why
    the last modified date was 20260401 in the subject of this month's post).

    The Git repository is on Debian's Salsa. It probably needs reorganisation. Ideally, there should be unified diffs per month from whenever I first
    started this - maybe. Or a major versioning per year - or something.
    I started doing diffs against each month but it's lapsed - the number
    of substantive changes is small. Advice gratefully received as to
    how you'd like to see ~75 lines of changes over, say, five years.

    And yes, the quickest way to post this is to pick up last month's
    copy if there have been no changes and re post it. It's lazy but
    quick and since I've so far been the main contributor, nobody else
    has complained about my monthly editing practice. There, you caught
    me out :)

    Is the FAQ useful** - maybe. is it worth worrying about on a major
    scale, probably not. I'm currently worrying more about the loss of the
    AMOC in the lifetime of the next couple of generations, perhaps.

    Hopefully, this helps,

    With every good wish to all list readers, as ever,

    Andy
    (amacater@debian.org)

    ** I have recently pointed people to it when they've asked for
    posts or contributions to be removed from Debian. Practically,
    especially with the rise of web crawlers, that's now impossible.
    It's also fairly unlikely that you can be scrubbed from the 'Net
    if you've kept the same email address for many years. Any real
    expectation of privacy must also be lost if your email provider
    has archived your mailbox contents and someone has used them to train
    an AI Large Language Model without your knowledge.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Will Mengarini@3:633/10 to All on Saturday, May 02, 2026 11:50:01
    Subject: Re: FAQ diff -u [was: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list [Modified 20260401]]

    * On Fri, May 01, 2026 at 04:00:42PM -0700, Will Mengarini wrote:
    Note that although the subject says "Modified 20260401",
    this was actually mailed on 5/1.

    * Andrew M.A. Cater <amacater@einval.com> [26-05/02=Sa 09:21 +0000]:
    [...] In your diff, you've taken three months apart - and,
    actually there were changes. (That's why the last modified
    date was 20260401 in the subject of this month's post).

    I didn't receive a FAQ on 3/1 or 4/1, so I diffed against 2/1.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)