• Re: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays

    From Jeff Layman@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 24, 2026 17:59:57
    On 24/08/2026 16:14, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
    2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) 6. ?

    6. Dump android and iOS for something where you have control and the
    device doesn't spy on you. Probably the only viable device at present is
    a Fairphone 6 with e/OS.

    Thinking about it, this should be at the top of the list. :-)

    --
    Jeff

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From badgolferman@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 24, 2026 17:54:39
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
    2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) 6. ?


    For me it?s probably a combination of 1 and 3. Often times the cellular
    company also provides an incentive where it makes sense to upgrade to a new phone rather than repair it.

    A couple other reasons you could add to your list are:
    6. Device gets lost.
    7. Most used apps stop working with older OS.

    Both those reasons have happened either to me or family members.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 24, 2026 20:49:01
    On 2026-08-24 19:54, badgolferman wrote:
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
    factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone >> 2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone >> 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) >> 6. ?


    For me it?s probably a combination of 1 and 3. Often times the cellular company also provides an incentive where it makes sense to upgrade to a new phone rather than repair it.

    A couple other reasons you could add to your list are:
    6. Device gets lost.
    7. Most used apps stop working with older OS.

    Both those reasons have happened either to me or family members.

    And to me.

    I went for a swim with the phone in my pocket. Instant death. It is a
    variant of "6".

    Apps demand a more recent OS, and they don't install or they refuse to
    work. Remember that the huge majority of users use the Play Store and
    official methods.

    A variant of '5' is that security updates stop coming, and banking app complains. It is not that the user becomes scared.

    Device has a bug. This could be a variant of "4". For instance, one
    phone stopped recognizing the SD card.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richmond@3:633/10 to All on Monday, August 24, 2026 22:00:29
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> writes:

    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
    2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) 6. ?

    Previous two times it was 1.

    Last time it was 5 (android 10). This time it is likely to be 1.

    I am not sure 'scared' is the right word, maybe cautious, risk averse.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 10:46:06
    On 2026-08-24 21:00:29 +0000, Richmond said:
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> writes:

    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
    factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone >> 2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone >> 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) >> 6. ?

    Previous two times it was 1.

    Last time it was 5 (android 10). This time it is likely to be 1.

    I am not sure 'scared' is the right word, maybe cautious, risk averse.


    7. Never needed a mobile phone, so never had one at all. :-p



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 10:49:09
    On 2026-08-24 18:49:01 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:
    On 2026-08-24 19:54, badgolferman wrote:
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
    factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone >>> 2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone >>> 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen) >>> 4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?) >>> 5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) >>> 6. ?

    For me it?s probably a combination of 1 and 3. Often times the cellular
    company also provides an incentive where it makes sense to upgrade to a new >> phone rather than repair it.

    A couple other reasons you could add to your list are:
    6. Device gets lost.
    7. Most used apps stop working with older OS.

    Both those reasons have happened either to me or family members.

    And to me.

    I went for a swim with the phone in my pocket. Instant death. It is a variant of "6".

    Apps demand a more recent OS, and they don't install or they refuse to
    work. Remember that the huge majority of users use the Play Store and official methods.

    A variant of '5' is that security updates stop coming, and banking app complains. It is not that the user becomes scared.

    Device has a bug. This could be a variant of "4". For instance, one
    phone stopped recognizing the SD card.

    Could be the phone with a dirty / worn socket.

    Could be the SD card itself being dirty / worn ... SD cards, like USB
    sticks, do not last forever.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 10:51:58
    On 2026-08-24 16:59:57 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

    On 24/08/2026 16:14, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
    factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone >> 2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone >> 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) >> 6. ?

    6. Dump android and iOS for something where you have control and the
    device doesn't spy on you. Probably the only viable device at present
    is a Fairphone 6 with e/OS.

    Thinking about it, this should be at the top of the list. :-)

    "e/OS" is simply yet another version of Android. Since Google makes
    Android, the supposed "de-Googled" e/OS is simply impossible idiotic
    nonense conning the gullible tin foil hat brigade - by deffinition,
    Google will always be part of any Android version.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 01:59:19
    On 2026-08-25 00:49, Your Name wrote:
    On 2026-08-24 18:49:01 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:
    On 2026-08-24 19:54, badgolferman wrote:


    Device has a bug. This could be a variant of "4". For instance, one
    phone stopped recognizing the SD card.

    Could be the phone with a dirty / worn socket.

    Could be the SD card itself being dirty / worn ... SD cards, like USB sticks, do not last forever.

    Nope, was not the case. Phone was almost new, that is, a year old. No
    dirt anywhere. One day the SD was not seen after a reboot.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 02:00:09
    On 2026-08-24 17:14, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
    2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) 6. ?

    Once I needed a phone with two SIMS. Ie, new feature needed.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 12:48:37
    On 2026-08-24 23:59:19 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:
    On 2026-08-25 00:49, Your Name wrote:
    On 2026-08-24 18:49:01 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:
    On 2026-08-24 19:54, badgolferman wrote:

    Device has a bug. This could be a variant of "4". For instance, one
    phone stopped recognizing the SD card.

    Could be the phone with a dirty / worn socket.

    Could be the SD card itself being dirty / worn ... SD cards, like USB
    sticks, do not last forever.

    Nope, was not the case. Phone was almost new, that is, a year old. No
    dirt anywhere. One day the SD was not seen after a reboot.

    Sounds like the SD card most likely went kaput. They don't last forever
    and some makes are worse than others. Same with USB sticks - I've got
    one that simply stopped working in anything, while another even older
    one still works fine.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Steve Hayes@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 03:47:45
    On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 17:14:40 +0200, Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key >factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone >3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)

    !. My phone keeps telling me "Your phone is getting full" and offering
    to remove apps. But I am bombarded with messages to "Download the app"

    2. The last time I replaced my phone was because, although the screen
    wasn't physically damaged, swiping the screen often had no effect,
    especially in warm weather. I had to put it in the fridge to get it to
    work.




    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Layman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 09:35:50
    On 24/08/2026 23:51, Your Name wrote:
    On 2026-08-24 16:59:57 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

    On 24/08/2026 16:14, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
    factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone >>> 2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone >>> 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen) >>> 4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?) >>> 5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) >>> 6. ?

    6. Dump android and iOS for something where you have control and the
    device doesn't spy on you. Probably the only viable device at present
    is a Fairphone 6 with e/OS.

    Thinking about it, this should be at the top of the list. :-)

    "e/OS" is simply yet another version of Android. Since Google makes
    Android, the supposed "de-Googled" e/OS is simply impossible idiotic
    nonense conning the gullible tin foil hat brigade - by deffinition,
    Google will always be part of any Android version.

    Apologies! Wrong phone and wrong OS. :-(

    It should have been PinePhone Pro running Sailfish OS (so definitely OT
    for this NG!).

    --
    Jeff

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Layman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 10:56:09
    On 25/08/2026 02:31, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Your Name wrote:
    6. Dump android and iOS for something where you have control and the
    device doesn't spy on you. Probably the only viable device at present
    is a Fairphone 6 with e/OS.

    Thinking about it, this should be at the top of the list. :-)

    "e/OS" is simply yet another version of Android. Since Google makes
    Android, the supposed "de-Googled" e/OS is simply impossible idiotic
    nonense conning the gullible tin foil hat brigade - by deffinition,
    Google will always be part of any Android version.

    While that's OT, it's simply not true, so the record needs correction.
    *Android is an open-source operating system project (AOSP)*

    While Google develops and maintains AOSP, Google does not own every Android-derived operating system, nor does an Android-derived OS
    necessarily contain Google's proprietary services.

    In particular, /e/OS is deliberately built from AOSP and removes Google's proprietary components. The /e/OS project describes itself as a "fully deGoogled mobile operating system," replacing Google's services with its own/open alternatives.

    The important distinction is:

    AOSP = Google's open-source Android codebase.

    Google Mobile Services (GMS) = Google's proprietary package of
    services/apps, including things such as Google Play Services and the Play Store.

    /e/OS = Android/AOSP-derived, but designed to operate without GMS and Google's normal tracking/service infrastructure.

    So saying "Google makes Android, therefore Google must always be part of
    any Android version" is roughly analogous to saying that because Linux was originally created by Linus Torvalds, every Linux distribution must contain something owned or controlled by Linus Torvalds.

    I don't think that the analogy here is correct. Torvalds created Linux
    from the start. It was not a commercial enterprise. Google developed
    Android, after purchasing it from the creators, and continues to
    maintain it.

    Perhaps a better analogy would be Google and Chromium/Chrome. To quote
    from the wiki, "Chromium is a free and open-source web browser project, primarily developed and maintained by Google". So perhaps it could be
    said that it is equivalent to AOSP. As of about two years ago (and again quoting from the wiki) "The Chromium browser codebase contains over 36
    million source lines of code, excluding comments and blank lines".
    That's rather a lot of code for anyone to check.

    There are quite a few differences between the free and open-source
    Chromium, and Google's Chrome. Probably the most important is the
    tracking that Google built into Chrome.

    Now, and maybe this is a step too far, there are a number of "Android"
    OSs which claim to have removed Google's "spyware" (you can use your own name!) from Android. If AOSP is clean, why is there a necessity to
    remove anything? Or is it a similar situation to Chromium? If Chromium
    is a FOSS browser, why has it been deemed necessary for someone to build "UnGoogled Chromium"? Well, we know that it's to remove all
    Google-specific web services. So are there any services in Android that
    we don't know about, and companies like Graphene and Lineage
    weren't/aren't able to find? How would we know?

    This is completely OT, but it shows that if it /can/ be done, someone
    will try to do it! <https://www.techspot.com/news/113581-aliexpress-silently-running-audio-browser-fingerprint-track-device.html>

    Until recently, GrapheneOS was only available for Pixels. I always
    thought it odd that the *only* phone a deGoogled Android OS was
    available for was a phone made by Google! Never mind the software; what
    about the hardware? What about firmware updates? How would you know that
    some chip inside a Pixel isn't calling home once a month? From <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Privacy_and_GDPR_compliance>:

    "Two years later, in 2021, researcher Douglas Leith, using a sort of
    data interception, showed that several data are sent from Android device
    to Google's servers, even when the phone is sleeping (IDLE) with no
    Google account registered into it."

    By the way, that was with a Pixel! Oh, and it wasn't calling home once a
    month - it was every few minutes. (See <https://www.tomsguide.com/news/android-ios-data-collection>)
    The ancestry doesn't imply that.

    There is, however, a legitimate criticism buried underneath that perhaps /e/OS isn't an entirely independent operating-system architecture.

    For sure, it remains Android-derived and applications written for Android
    are generally what make it useful. But that's very different from:

    "Google will always be part of any Android version."

    That statement is simply false.

    I'm afraid you would never be able to prove that it wasn't false without spending a vast amount of time and effort examining /every/ bit of code
    in Android, both FOSS and proprietary.

    --
    Jeff

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 12:23:20
    (Fup-To comp.mobile.android, given I don't see this being relevant to
    iPhones)

    On 2026-08-25, Jeff Layman wrote:

    On 25/08/2026 02:31, Maria Sophia wrote:
    [...]
    For sure, it remains Android-derived and applications written for Android
    are generally what make it useful. But that's very different from:

    "Google will always be part of any Android version."

    That statement is simply false.

    I'm afraid you would never be able to prove that it wasn't false
    without spending a vast amount of time and effort examining /every/
    bit of code in Android, both FOSS and proprietary.

    I don't think so, you just need to make the case that it's possible to
    do so. And, as far as "Google" means Google's service and Google's
    proprietary code, and not FLOSS code copyrighted or paid for by Google,
    it should be possible to do so.

    This, logically, is sufficient to prove that.

    <https://enwp.org/Modus_tollens> for what's at least very similar,
    although I think this is more by way of <https://enwp.org/Reductio_ad_absurdum>.

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 14:27:11
    On 2026-08-25 02:48, Your Name wrote:
    On 2026-08-24 23:59:19 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:
    On 2026-08-25 00:49, Your Name wrote:
    On 2026-08-24 18:49:01 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:
    On 2026-08-24 19:54, badgolferman wrote:

    Device has a bug. This could be a variant of "4". For instance, one
    phone stopped recognizing the SD card.

    Could be the phone with a dirty / worn socket.

    Could be the SD card itself being dirty / worn ... SD cards, like USB
    sticks, do not last forever.

    Nope, was not the case. Phone was almost new, that is, a year old. No
    dirt anywhere. One day the SD was not seen after a reboot.

    Sounds like the SD card most likely went kaput. They don't last forever
    and some makes are worse than others. Same with USB sticks - I've got
    one that simply stopped working in anything, while another even older
    one still works fine.


    It didn't. I tried it on another device, worked fine. Did tests on it,
    no problem.

    Forget it, that phone developed a bug that made the card not accessible. Absolute certainty.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 14:35:59
    On 2026-08-25 03:31, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Your Name wrote:
    6. Dump android and iOS for something where you have control and the
    device doesn't spy on you. Probably the only viable device at present
    is a Fairphone 6 with e/OS.

    Thinking about it, this should be at the top of the list. :-)

    "e/OS" is simply yet another version of Android. Since Google makes
    Android, the supposed "de-Googled" e/OS is simply impossible idiotic
    nonense conning the gullible tin foil hat brigade - by deffinition,
    Google will always be part of any Android version.

    While that's OT, it's simply not true, so the record needs correction.
    *Android is an open-source operating system project (AOSP)*

    While Google develops and maintains AOSP, Google does not own every Android-derived operating system, nor does an Android-derived OS
    necessarily contain Google's proprietary services.

    In particular, /e/OS is deliberately built from AOSP and removes Google's proprietary components. The /e/OS project describes itself as a "fully deGoogled mobile operating system," replacing Google's services with its own/open alternatives.

    The important distinction is:

    AOSP = Google's open-source Android codebase.

    Google Mobile Services (GMS) = Google's proprietary package of
    services/apps, including things such as Google Play Services and the Play Store.

    /e/OS = Android/AOSP-derived, but designed to operate without GMS and Google's normal tracking/service infrastructure.

    So saying "Google makes Android, therefore Google must always be part of
    any Android version" is roughly analogous to saying that because Linux was originally created by Linus Torvalds, every Linux distribution must contain something owned or controlled by Linus Torvalds.

    The ancestry doesn't imply that.

    There is, however, a legitimate criticism buried underneath that perhaps /e/OS isn't an entirely independent operating-system architecture.

    For sure, it remains Android-derived and applications written for Android
    are generally what make it useful. But that's very different from:

    "Google will always be part of any Android version."

    That statement is simply false.

    Are there phones directly sold with e/OS?

    Is it possibly to *easily* change a phone to e/OS?

    What does e/OS in order to install apps, what service does it use?

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 13:47:52
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?

    1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
    2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a 'bigger' phone 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
    4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
    5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so the user becomes scared) 6. ?

    For my previous phones:

    2. Not so much a (non-volatile) storage problem, but the (Huawei
    Y560-L02) phone became way too slow to be useful. *If* the
    performance problem was 'storage' related, it probably was (lack of)
    RAM, instead of 'flash' storage.

    3. Intermittent hardware problem. (Samsung Galaxy A51) Phone crashed/
    rebooted (too) frequently, sometimes/often one crash/reboot cycle
    after another. Might have been a known bad-soldering problem. Of
    course the phone was out of warranty! :-( The same-aged (but
    different country of manufacture) A51 of my wife still works fine.

    For our future phones:

    5. Probably because Google keeps updating Android every few nanoseconds,
    Samsung stops updating our phones and apps stop supporting (c.q.
    working on) 'old' Android versions.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jeff Layman@3:633/10 to All on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 18:43:16
    On 25/08/2026 12:23, Nuno Silva wrote:
    (Fup-To comp.mobile.android, given I don't see this being relevant to iPhones)

    On 2026-08-25, Jeff Layman wrote:

    On 25/08/2026 02:31, Maria Sophia wrote:
    [...]
    For sure, it remains Android-derived and applications written for Android >>> are generally what make it useful. But that's very different from:

    "Google will always be part of any Android version."

    That statement is simply false.

    I'm afraid you would never be able to prove that it wasn't false
    without spending a vast amount of time and effort examining /every/
    bit of code in Android, both FOSS and proprietary.

    I don't think so, you just need to make the case that it's possible to
    do so. And, as far as "Google" means Google's service and Google's proprietary code, and not FLOSS code copyrighted or paid for by Google,
    it should be possible to do so.

    This, logically, is sufficient to prove that.

    <https://enwp.org/Modus_tollens> for what's at least very similar,
    although I think this is more by way of <https://enwp.org/Reductio_ad_absurdum>.

    Oddly enough, I was looking up Reductio ad absurdum a couple of days
    ago. I came to the conclusion that I don't understand Logic - at least
    how it is explained in <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum>

    The Modus tollens was even worse. I looked at the examples and this one puzzled me:

    If the dog detects an intruder, the dog will bark.
    The dog did not bark.
    Therefore, no intruder was detected by the dog.

    It states: "Supposing that the premises are both true (the dog will bark
    if it detects an intruder, and does indeed not bark), it logically
    follows that no intruder has been detected. This is a valid argument
    since it is not possible for the conclusion to be false if the premises
    are true."

    What if the dog detected the intruder, but the intruder killed the dog
    before it could bark? It detected the intruder but it did not bark
    because it could not. The first two premises are still true; where does
    that leave the conclusion?

    To return to the comment about understanding someone else's code, this
    article about decompiling is perhaps of relevance <https://blog.david-reid.com/decompiling/>

    If it's a matter of TL:DR, just look at the penultimate paragraph:
    "There are over 1500 functions in the decompiled code and so I'm not
    sure that all of them are going to need this level of detailed work. I
    am basically interested in the RF messaging but have come to realise
    that unless I can figure out what's going on I have no chance of
    understanding the RF messages - which means I need to unpick a lot more
    of the decompiled code than I had hoped to."
    And if there are umpteen million lines of code? Would AI be able to do it?

    --
    Jeff

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Wednesday, August 26, 2026 10:32:25
    On 2026-08-25 16:26, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Carlos E.R. wrote:
    Are there phones directly sold with e/OS?

    Is it possibly to *easily* change a phone to e/OS?

    What does e/OS in order to install apps, what service does it use?

    Hi Carlos,

    I didn't bring up e/OS where all I did was explain that it could be de-googled, as even my unrooted phone is degoogled to a good degree.

    However, your question is valid, so I looked it up to answer that.

    Apparently Murena sells brand-new and refurbished carrier-unlocked smartphones that come with /e/OS pre-installed out of the box.
    <https://murena.com/products/smartphones/>
    On that listing, I see Pixels in addition to Fairphone & their own brand.

    If you can unlock your bootloader, apparently you can flash it yourself
    but apparently you have to have a Pixel, Motorola, Fairphone or Xiaomi.
    <https://doc.e.foundation/os/installer>

    For apps, apparently /e/OS uses a native app store called App Lounge.
    <https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/app-lounge>

    What's interesting is App Lounge pulls apps anonymously directly from the Google Play Store repository much like Aurora Store does, which is nice.

    We can use Bit Warden to figure out what trackers are in those apps.

    /e/OS also comes with an open-source reimplementation of Google Play
    Services called "microG" which tricks apps into working by acting as a privacy-friendly middleman, blocking Google from tracking personal data.

    Interesting, thanks.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)