Subject: ?Your kids are being hurt?: He knows the harm social media does - because he helped build it

Some good thoughts on age-gating access to social media, from someone
who worked at Facebook for some years and helped create it <https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360982163/your-kids-are-being-hurt-experts-plea-new-zealand-lawmakers-social-media-ban>:

?I worked on newsfeed ranking, bullying and harassment, and
comment ranking,? [Ravi] Iyer told Stuff. ?What I learned was that
you can't actually design a platform badly and then try to fix it
through moderation. You actually have to design a platform better
in the first place.?

As for the idea that legal restrictions just drive young people to use
VPNs or lie about their age or whatever, he points out that peer
pressure is the main driver of behaviour, so it?s not necessary to
have a 100% loophole-proof policy in order to see good results:

Addressing concerns about teens bypassing potential legislation
using virtual private networks (VPNs) or children being pushed to
darker corners of the internet, Iyer argues that these are not
reasons to delay action. He says norm changes?where children feel
less social pressure to be on platforms?are already occurring, and
the goal is not immediate 100% compliance. He compares the policy
to drinking ages or speed limits, where partial compliance still
yields significant social benefits.

And yes, he has some ideas on how a platform can be better designed.
His approach also has the benefit of singling out problem platforms,
not by trying to say what is or isn?t a ?social media? platform, but
in terms of the specific characteristics that cause problems:

Iyer suggests moving away from broad, purpose-based definitions
and instead focusing on harmful features, such as engagement-based
algorithms, infinite scroll, and "streak" gamification?where users
are incentivised to return to the platform every day.

Of course, such features are precisely those that maximize ad revenue
for the platform companies. So don?t expect them to be happy about
this kind of focus.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: ?Your kids are being hurt?: He knows the harm social media does - because he helped build it

On 22/05/2026 05:55, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

Some good thoughts on age-gating access to social media, from someone
who worked at Facebook for some years and helped create it

The general media in TV, films and music; and retailers in fashion,
makeup and food, have profited in targetting teenagers and also it could argued have harmed ...

I think all is an argument lost. This is the free world. Give parents
the control if ya want, but everybody else?... hmmmm :-(

--
Adrian C

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: ?Your kids are being hurt?: He knows the harm social media does - because he helped build it

On 2026-05-23, Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:

On 22/05/2026 05:55, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

Some good thoughts on age-gating access to
social media, from someone who worked at
Facebook for some years and helped create it

The general media in TV, films and music;
and retailers in fashion, makeup and food,
have profited in targetting teenagers and also
it could argued have harmed ...

I think all is an argument lost. This is the
free world. Give parents the control if ya want,
but everybody else?... hmmmm :-(

The species is in the habit of calling entropy
"freedom", and in the aftermath wondering why
and/or how shit happened, and nice things
couldn't be had.

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--- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: ?Your kids are being hurt?: He knows the harm social media does - because he helped build it

On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:33:31 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 22/05/2026 05:55, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

Some good thoughts on age-gating access to social media, from
someone who worked at Facebook for some years and helped create it

The general media in TV, films and music; and retailers in fashion,
makeup and food, have profited in targetting teenagers and also it
could argued have harmed ...

Social media just takes things to the next level, though: it lets
users create their own feedback cycles, with content coming from
umpteen unregulated sources, and automated algorithms to maximize
?engagement?. This is very different from traditional broadcast/print
media, where all the content comes through a centralized channel.

I think all is an argument lost. This is the free world.

On the contrary, we have quite a few countries pushing back now and
passing laws to restrict access by underage users to these online
platforms.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: ?Your kids are being hurt?: He knows the harm social media does - because he helped build it

On 2026-05-24, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:33:31 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 22/05/2026 05:55, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

Some good thoughts on age-gating access to social media, from
someone who worked at Facebook for some years and helped create it

The general media in TV, films and music; and retailers in fashion,
makeup and food, have profited in targetting teenagers and also it
could argued have harmed ...

Social media just takes things to the next level, though: it lets
users create their own feedback cycles, with content coming from
umpteen unregulated sources, and automated algorithms to maximize ?engagement?. This is very different from traditional broadcast/print
media, where all the content comes through a centralized channel.

This is mainly or only an issue in commercial social media, where
manipulation takes place. Although the phrase "social media" has been associated mainly with such systems, that 1) excludes other venues, like
IRC networks and USENET, 2) excludes any similarly-looking
non-commercial "social media" service, like several on the fediverse.

("algorithmic social media" does seem to be a way to refer to these
commercial services, but that still sounds not a great choice, given
that algorithms are everywhere... that one is a bit like "AI" these
days, when used to refer to GenAI on LLM technology.)

I think all is an argument lost. This is the free world.

On the contrary, we have quite a few countries pushing back now and
passing laws to restrict access by underage users to these online
platforms.

And I'll still stand by the argument that this is ignoring a key
problem: it's not only underage users who are affected, which makes this
look more like a deception pulling the "Lovejoy defense" [1]. If
politicians really were worried about commercial social media
manipulating users, they'd ban that manipulation for *all* users, not
just a segment not of voting age.

If they claim to recognize the problem but then proceed with an action
that would merely target a smaller set of users based on age, they are
not really targetting the problem.

And that leaving aside the whole thing of means to defeat such systems,
where they're possible.


[1] I'm not sure if this name is widely known, it's in reference to
Helen Lovejoy from The Simpsons, who made use of "won't somebody please
think of the children". https://enwp.org/Lovejoy_defense#Lovejoy's_Law

--
Nuno Silva

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Subject: Re: ?Your kids are being hurt?: He knows the harm social media does - because he helped build it

On 2026-05-24, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:

And I'll still stand by the argument that
this is ignoring a key problem: it's not only
underage users who are affected, which makes
this look more like a deception pulling the
"Lovejoy defense" [1]. If politicians really
were worried about commercial social media
manipulating users, they'd ban that manipulation
for *all* users, not just a segment not of
voting age.

Following the word 'politicians' with the
word 'really' has probably always constituted
expecting far too much.

If they claim to recognize the problem but
then proceed with an action that would merely
target a smaller set of users based on age,
they are not really targetting the problem.

Until the one and only fundamental problem -
self-centered individuality - is acknowledged
and solved, attempting to slap system/law atop
it is just biding time in the direction of the
fundamental problem exploding.

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--- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)